Film/TV Nov 12, 2008 at 8:00 pm

Comments

1
I fucking hate Tony Perkins. He is shit.

Good for you, Dan.
2
And buy a goddamned jacket already.
3
Dan, fat people hate shopping. Broke people hate shopping.

You're in shape, successful, and probably wear a size that you could grab right off the rack and wear out of the store.

It doesn't matter though, whatevs! It was a neutral color and not something that would stand out as exactly the same to the common casual viewer who caught you on both shows.
4
Dan, you wiped the floor with him. Fantastic job. Your final argument was spot on. Keep fighting the fight.
5
Andersen Cooper has never married.

Why? Why are so few gays taking advantage of marriage?
6
you need a bigger suitcase, admit it, you!
7
The hell? You're in NYC, Daniel. There are shops everywhere. Shops with shirts, yo. I'm not working. I could've hopped on the Acela and helped you out. For reals. Off to find the CNN video. . .
8
Spokesgay privileges revoked.
9
Terrif. That AC's going to be quite a piece in ten years. Rrrowr. I loved the bit in response to TP's "gays want to change marriage" schtick - how it was straights who insisted on improving marriage (to the point where it finally started to appeal to some of us). Nice nice.
10
Just saw you on Colbert, Dan. Great job! Did you and KJ really mix it up backstage?
11
Go to Ben Laden shirts in Manhattan. They have good collars.
12
I have to stick up for Dan on this. Look, it's enough that Dan has to deal with all the inane bullshit of other people that he solicits and seeks out. But to expect him to fall in line with gay stereotypes simply cause he is a prominent gay figure is insulting. Dan's aversion to shopping makes him seem less like a gay cartoon stereotype and more like the realistic face of homosexuality.
13
My (very conservative, retired military) grandparents lived in Colorado Springs for many years, and they faithfully bought all their cars at Perkins Chrysler Dodge. Then one year in the early 90s, they decided they'd had enough of "that man and his hateful politics" and they bought a (gasp!) Ford Taurus from another dealer. I'm still proud of them for that.
14
way to go, Dan! My husband and I were alternating screaming profanity/cheering from the couch. You kept your cool, you kept on point and you got the last word! I could NOT have a conversation with Tony Perkins without threatening violence, it'd get ugly quick.
15
Was Gergen disturbed at all that you were taking his picture while he peed?

Thanks for shredding Perkins. The urge to reach out and slap the mofo must be overwhelming.
16
First, the shirt you wear whenever you're on TV pretty much sucks, so what's it matter if it's the same one or a different one?

Second, you should have at least asked Anderson to go shopping with you. How he answered that could have solved a lot of mysteries.
17
savage shut up no one cares
18
What's the mystery about Anderson?
19
Am I a bad het girl if I didn't even notice it was the same shirt?

Good job on AC360.
20
Does anyone have a link to a youtube vid or whatever of Dan's appearance? CNN's website is being bitchy for some reason.
21
You know Dan, you prob get this all the time but good job tonight and thank you for everything you do, not just for gay rights, but for basic human rights as well. I'm just a poor gay boy working my way through college, but one day I'll have some pull in this world too and when i do I'll try to follow your example.
23
@22: Thank you!
24
I didn't even notice what you were wearing. You completely came out as the more intelligent debater there. I know you don't take compliments well, but your performance was fantastic!
Favorite line: "You stripped me of my rights, and I interrupt you. Who's really suffering here?"
Seriously, Dan, you're awesome.
[Digital hi-five]
25
So you didn't check luggage, obviously.

Your one shirt took up 1/10 of your carry on. At most. Your underwear took up 1/10. Laptop? 2/10? At most. Stupid useless bullshit? 4/10? At MOST? I mean really. You can cram a lot of shit into a carry on.

My data says you had room for at least 3 more shirts. Maybe more. MAYBE? Definitely more than 3 more shirts. Explain, Mr. Savage. Explain.
26
Wow, I always forget what a piece of shit Tony Perkins is until I see him on TV again.
27
Perkins is a monumental asshole. Good job. And you kept your cool much better than I possibly could have.

You may continue to be spokesgay, despite the shirt.
28
Now that the link is up, finally got to see it.

I thank the laws of physics for you.
29
I'm tall, in great shape, and I HATE shopping especially in hipster land Seattle.

New York, is also a tough place to shop in too. There is a lot of cheap shit, there is a lot of very expensive shit, and there are many deals.

And the strange thing is ... when you are in shape, sometimes it's even harder to find clothes, because everyone is fat and those are the shirts they keep in stock. A shirt that has room for a beer gut.

Nothing at all fits. Dan, I don't blame you at all.
30
Tony Perkins = Closet Gay ...just like Ted Haggard, Lon Mabon, Larry Craig, Mark Foley...

The long list of these self-hating hypocrites goes on and on and on.
31
Also, the sets are lit differently. It could be argued that the shirt appears more of a pine on AC and more tan on CR
32
I love it when Perkins-fucktard compares letting two gays getting married to child abuse and incest. Brilliant. Now THAT is H8.
33
elenchos, dan lost his shirts in the marion apts fire.
34
Oh damn, he WAS good. "Bearing false witness" at the end was an sweet touch.

It occurs to me, listening to Perkins' sophistry, that when even apolitical younger people listen to this, Perkins' time-worn arguments must seem just as obviously specious to them as they do to those of us with skin in the game (heh). The whole "redefining marriage" schtick really depends on viewing gay people as a mysterious other, and it's hard to do that when kids you went to school with your whole life turn out gay. Coming out has always been the most important political act any homo can commit.

Speaking of which, how would these teevee talkfests look different as public discourse if guys like Anderson Cooper were out of the closet already? The guys on Fox are still wankers on race issues, but they don't talk about Juan Williams as if he weren't regular people when he's right there on the set.
35
Mikki Sez:
36
Excellent job, Dan. If I had been in your position, I don't think I would have been able to maintain my composure nearly as well as you did. Tony Perkins may have won in the battle for politeness, but what you said rang true, and that matters a lot more.

Oh, and I didn't notice the shirt. I was too focused on what you were saying.
37
I HATE Tony Perkins, and I LOVE David Gergen, and you totally rocked AC360 AND Colbert. My 14-year-old son watched both with me, and turned to me and said "Wait, what? So straight people want to define marriage for everyone? That's so effed up." He actually was really upset with Perkins and thought you were awesome.
38
Oh and: Let me join the chorus noting that Tony Perkins is a waste of air. Seriously, there has got to be something wrong with people who devote their resources to banning gay marriage. I just don't see a good-faith explanation for it.
39
Who cares about your fucking shirt? People on TV register as only heads to me. Unless they have great boobs.
40
Unless AC360 gets a bj, I will be disappointed for America.
41
Dan, you pulled an O'Reilly. I was disappointed.
42
Nice work, Dan! On both Colbert and AC360. So you interrupted. You can't go on CNN these days without interrupting a lot. And your interruptions seemed pretty successful. Thumbs up.
43
@24 Yes! I LOVED that!
@30 Yes! (see what happens when you come late to the party?)

Did you see Perkins face at the end? He's a believer. It's frightening. All the more reason he's probably what @30 said.
44
Too much talking over each other which was annoying. However, Dan, I agree with your view. I think you need to win over the "other" side by bringing up what they might relate to--what does Tony think about the fact that Dick Cheney's daughter is married to her partner and just had a baby? Is that not okay? There must be other conservative politicians whose children are gay? Use those as examples for your point and how THEY voted, knowing their own children are gay.
45
Wow. You are a really good spokesgay. I hope you take every opportunity to speak in public forums like this. Not only did you do an awesome job on Colbert and Anderson Cooper, but you're, um, normal. There aren't many (any?) relatable lesbians/gays in the media. The ones people can relate to don't talk about gay issues (or even come out, like Anderson Cooper).
46
I just caught the tail end of this. I didn't know who you were arguing with but by his attitude and haircut I can guess. Dan, you got some good shots in, but the blithe and rehearsed way Perkins recited his talking points, makes me sad for how long this is going to take for change to happen. Bottom line, the majority (of which I am a member) should never be voting on the rights and privileges of a minority. That's not our job, and we seldom get it right. Just keep doing what you're doing Dan. It can't be asshole-haircut land forever.
47
If anybody pulled an O'Reilly, it was Perkins. I was disappointed that AC didn't shut him up better when he kept interrupting and cutting you off. (Guess he was trying to do his 'fair and balanced' thing.)


Your shirt makes you look like Dan Savage. No need to change a thing.


At least people are getting to know there IS another view of life and marriage. The first step to change is becoming aware.


Well done, Dan.

48
@44

Where did Mary Cheney get married? I thought she and her partner lived in VA.


Definitely didn't happen HERE.

49
On the interrupting: Sure, listening to people shout over each other is annoying -- talking-head teevee is annoying -- but Dan's absolutely right. Professional spokespigs like Perkins have a well-developed strategy of getting their talking points in and preventing their "debate" opponent from doing the same by running out the clock. If you try to develop an argument, they'll interrupt you. If you interrupt them, they'll cry and moan about rudeness. If you score a point against their argument, they'll evade rather than engage. Their strategic goal is not to go on teevee and win an argument, it's to go on teevee and make it seem reasonable to believe the indefensible. If you don't interrupt them, talk over them, they'll just keep bullshitting until it's time for the commercial.
50
Tony:

Sad to say I don't know much about you. In fact, I had to look you up on the internet to find out more about you. I just wanted to say, you are awsome. I just watched you on Anderson Cooper. You were on target!! This is nothing but, racism. I served 20 years in the military and spent most of my life in the "closet". It has been hell!! I'm finally living my life as it should have been A LONG TIME AGO. I have always been supportive of the Mormon faith. I have always been supportive of the rights of African Americans. I still support and will always support African Americans but, I will no longer support the "Mormons". Who cares what we call it. Marriage, Civil Union or ABC. We deserve the same rights as any other American. Besides, Where in Constitution or any other document that defines America says what marriage is. Marriage is a union between two people who love each other. I have children, and I raised them to be productive members of society. Marriage had nothing to do with being a dad! I can say that I'm finally who I am and happy. That is the American dream that I hope closed minded homofobes can't take away. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate all you are doing to give the rights to all of us. Our history shows clear what hate can do. It is about time that we "the gay community" are finally standing up for our rights as Americans. Look at the movement for Black Americans. No one listened until they marched on Washington to show they were not going to put up with racism!! Maybe it is time for us to do the same. Count me in!! I don't want to take anything away from African Americans, but, me having to live my life being forced to be someone that I was not, was pretty much the same as being a slave to society. There is not much difference. It's just not "politically correct" to say it. I've never been much of a politician.

Bill
51
Dan, THANK YOU. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Keep it up. I'm PROUD to have you as a voice to be heard and reckoned with. Keep fighting for all of us gay dads with partners & kids we raise together out there. =)
52
Your appearance/performance on Colbert & AC360, in that shirt, were excellent ... Perhaps, this is your lucky shirt Dan.
53
That was great, Dan. You kept very calm considering the guy was an out and out liar and bigot. And you were great on Colbert last night, too. Keep fighting the good fight. Peace.
54
Dan:

Sorry, I put the wrong name :{
Tony:

Sad to say I don't know much about you. In fact, I had to look you up on the internet to find out more about you. I just wanted to say, you are awsome. I just watched you on Anderson Cooper. You were on target!! This is nothing but, racism. I served 20 years in the military and spent most of my life in the "closet". It has been hell!! I'm finally living my life as it should have been A LONG TIME AGO. I have always been supportive of the Mormon faith. I have always been supportive of the rights of African Americans. I still support and will always support African Americans but, I will no longer support the "Mormons". Who cares what we call it. Marriage, Civil Union or ABC. We deserve the same rights as any other American. Besides, Where in Constitution or any other document that defines America says what marriage is. Marriage is a union between two people who love each other. I have children, and I raised them to be productive members of society. Marriage had nothing to do with being a dad! I can say that I'm finally who I am and happy. That is the American dream that I hope closed minded homofobes can't take away. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate all you are doing to give the rights to all of us. Our history shows clear what hate can do. It is about time that we "the gay community" are finally standing up for our rights as Americans. Look at the movement for Black Americans. No one listened until they marched on Washington to show they were not going to put up with racism!! Maybe it is time for us to do the same. Count me in!! I don't want to take anything away from African Americans, but, me having to live my life being forced to be someone that I was not, was pretty much the same as being a slave to society. There is not much difference. It's just not "politically correct" to say it. I've never been much of a politician.

Bill

55
Just looking at Tony Perkins makes me angry. He reeks of far right religious scum.
56
You did well Dan. I would've choked that piece of shit asshole within the first minute. Then stabbed a little american flag through his heart, and skullfucked him.

I hate republican douchebags. why can't we shoot them all in the face for treason?
57
either run for an elected office (orficce?) or stfu. you're a divider, not a uniter. and you're pissing away any cred that you ever had by beating the dead horse that you rode in on.
58
I'm a regular AC360 viewer and although the program has been covering Prop 8 fairly regularly the past few nights, I was pleasantly surprised to see Dan Savage on to debate with Perkins; I figured if anyone could shut Perkins down real good, it would be Dan Savage and I wasn't disappointed. Perkins is a bigot and a fool and I had the feeling that Dan Savage does NOT suffer fools gladly. Bravo!

I admire Anderson, but he needs to come out!

59
If I ever run into you Dan, you've got a hug coming your way for this one.
60
and don't get discouraged that cnn is retarded horse-race lazy reporting these days. everyone else on tv is too, and trying real hard to change that will just waste your time. spend your time fixing other things
61
THANK YOU! You handled the usually cool and calm Tony Perkins. He was clearly irritated with you and THAT WAS AWESOME! Coming from Baton Rouge, I have heard plenty from this so called Christian. We need more of us out there giving back to them what everyone has been giving them a pass on. The fact that there whole argument " its against our religion" is OLD!
62
dan-you were fantastic! That was the best job I've seen yet of shoving it down tony Perkins' throat.

Since the talking points have shifted from "defending marriage" to "redefining marriage", citing how marriage has already changed to be love-based instead of property exchange is smart.

I say we should offer an amendment that outlaws divorce and see how much the straights REALLY like traditional marriage.
63
I was watching CNN like I normally do every night (i'm a political nerd) and when I saw you on there I just screamed to my family "HOLY SHIT DAN SAVAGE FROM THE STRANGER SOMEHOW IS ON ANDERSON COOPER"

After you totally kicked douche bag perkins ass and dominated that conversation I said "Holy shit, Savage actually kicked his ass in the debate!"

good job Dan!
64
Dan, I watched you on the Colbert Report and just caught the clip on cnn.com (did not know you were going to be on the sexy as hell Anderson Cooper's show) and I think personally that you were clear, concise, and well within your rights. Go Dan Go.
65
good job Dan
66
I thought you did a great job on all of your appearances this week Dan.

By the way, I found some talking points for all of this "the Bible says that marriage is" business on http://nathanlaredo.com/marriage.html:

12 Biblical Principles of Marriage

1. Marriage consists of one man and one or more women (Gen 4:19, 4:23, 26:34, 28:9, 29:26-30, 30:26, 31:17, 32:22, 36:2, 36:10, 37:2, Ex. 21:10, Judges 8:30, 1 Sam 1:2, 25:43, 27:3, 30:5, 30:18, 2 Sam 2:2, 3:2-5, 1 Chron 3:1-3, 4:5, 8:8, 14:3, 2 Chron 11:21, 13:21, 24:3).

2. Nothing prevents a man from taking on concubines in addition to the wife or wives he may already have (Gen 25:6, Judges 8:31, 2 Sam 5:13, 1 Kings 11:3, 1 Chron 3:9, 2 Chron 11:21, Dan 5:2-3).

3. A man might chose any woman he wants for his wife (Gen 6:2, Deut 21:11), provided only that she is not already another man's wife (Lev 18:14-16, Deut. 22:30) or his [half-]sister (Lev 18:11, 20:17), nor the mother (Lev 20:14) or the sister (Lev 18:18 ) of a woman who is already his wife. The concept of a woman giving her consent to being married is foreign to the Biblical mindset.

4. If a woman cannot be proven to be a virgin at the time of marriage, she shall be stoned (Deut 22:13-21).

5. A rapist must marry his victim (Ex. 22:16, Deut. 22:28-29) - unless she was already a fiancé, in which case he should be put to death if he raped her in the country, but both of them killed if he raped her in town (Deut. 22:23-27).

6. If a man dies childless, his brother must marry the widow (Gen 38:6-10, Deut 25:5-10, Mark 12:19, Luke 20:28 ).

7. Women marry the man of their father's choosing (Gen. 24:4, Josh.15:16-17, Judges 1:12-13, 12:9, 21:1, 1 Sam 17:25, 18:19, 1 Kings 2:21, 1 Chron 2:35, Jer 29:6, Dan 11:17).

8. Women are the property of their father until married and their husband after that (Ex. 20:17, 22:17, Deut. 22:24, Mat 22:25).

9. The value of a woman might be approximately seven years' work (Gen 29:14-30).

10. Inter-faith marriages are prohibited (Gen 24:3, 28:1, 28:6, Num 25:1-9, Ezra 9:12, Neh 10:30, 2 Cor 6:14).

11. Divorce is forbidden (Deut 22:19, Matt 5:32, 19:9, Mark 10:9-12, Luke 16:18, Rom 7:2, 1 Cor 7:10-11, 7:39).

12. Better to not get married at all - although marriage is not a sin (Matt 19:10, I Cor 7:1, 7:27-28, 7:32-34, 7:38 ).
67
I too thought the interrupting was annoying, but I can see that it had to be done.

Thanks for putting the bigot in his place.
68
"Me? I come for the subway" should read Me? I come to toot my own horn and then brag about it to the losers who read the slog."

keepin' it real, yo.
69
Great job last night on AC360!!
70
"You strip me of my rights and I interrupt you, whose really suffering here?"

That was the best verbal knock out punch I'd seen on TV in years.
71
Fuck! I missed it! Would you please post a clip? (I know I can look it up on the you-tube; I just don't want to be bothered)
72
Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTySVskUc…

I dislike shouting over each other, but if someone has to bring it, I am glad it is someone w/ such fire & eloquence. Geez, Dan, I'm a writer & your prolific output & many appearances lately makes me feel lazy. Go buddy go.
73
The Strange, Strange Story of the Gay Fascists by Johann Hari

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-har…

The news that Jorg Haider - the Austrian fascist leader - spent his final few hours in a gay bar with a hot blond has shocked some people. It hasn't shocked me. This is a taboo topic for a gay left-wing man like me to touch, but there has always been a weird, disproportionate overlap between homosexuality and fascism. Take a deep breath; here goes.

Some 10,000 gay people were slaughtered in the Nazi death-camps. Many more were humiliated, jailed, deported, ethnically cleansed, or castrated. One gay survivor of the camps, LD Classen von Neudegg, has written about his experiences. A snapshot: "Three men had tried to escape one night. They were captured, and when they returned they had the word 'homo' scrawled across their clothing. They were placed on a block and whipped. Then they were forced to beat a drum and cheer, 'Hurrah! We're back! Hurrah!' Then they were hanged." This is one of the milder events documented in his book.

So the idea of a gay fascist seems ridiculous. Yet when the British National Party - our own home-grown Holocaust-denying bigots - announced it was fielding an openly gay candidate in the European elections this June, dedicated followers of fascism didn't blink. The twisted truth is that gay men have been at the heart of every major fascist movement that ever was - including the gay-gassing, homo-cidal Third Reich. With the exception of Jean-Marie Le Pen, all the most high-profile fascists in Europe in the past thirty years have been gay. It's time to admit something. Fascism isn't something that happens out there, a nasty habit acquired by the straight boys. It is - in part, at least - a gay thing, and it's time for non-fascist gay people to wake up and face the marching music.

Just look at our own continent over the past decade. Dutch fascist Pim Fortuyn ran on blatantly racist anti-immigrant platform, describing Islam as "a cancer" and "the biggest threat to Western civilisation today." Yet with two little fluffy dogs and a Mamma complex, he was openly, flamboyantly gay. When accused by a political opponent of hating Arabs, he replied, "How can I hate Arabs? I sucked one off last night."

Jorg Haider blasted Austria's cosy post-Nazi politics to rubble in 2000 when his neo-fascist 'Freedom Party' won a quarter of the vote and joined the country's government as a coalition partner. Several facts always cropped up in the international press coverage: his square jaw, his muscled torso, his SS-supporting father, his rabid anti-Semitism, his hatred of immigrants, his description of Auschwitz and Dachau as "punishment centres". A few newspapers mentioned that he is always surrounded by fit, fanatical young men. A handful went further and pointed out that several of these young men are openly gay. Then one left-wing German paper broke the story everybody else was hinting at. They alleged Haider is gay.

Rumours of an Indian waiter with "intimate details" of Haider's body broke into the press. The Freedom Party's general manager Gerald Miscka quickly quit, amid accusations that he was Haider's lover. Haider's close gay friend Walter Kohler - who has been photographed showing off a holstered pistol while Haider chuckled - declared his opposition to outing politicians. Haider - who was married and has two children - kept quiet while his functionaries denied the rumours. The revelation that he died after leaving a gay bar suggests these rumours were true.


On and on it goes. If you inter-railed across Europe, only stopping with gay fascists, there aren't many sights you'd miss. France's leading post-war fascist was Edouard Pfieffer, who was not batting for the straight side. Germany's leading neo-Nazi all through the eighties was called Michael Kuhnen; he died of AIDS in 1991 a few years after coming out. Martin Lee, author of a study of European fascism, explains, "For Kuhnen, there was something supermacho about being a Nazi, as well as being a homosexual, both of which enforced his sense of living on the edge, of belonging to an elite that was destined to make an impact. He told a West German journalist that homosexuals were 'especially well-suited for our task, because they do not want ties to wife, children and family.'"

And it wouldn't be long before your whistlestop tour arrived in Britain. At first glance, our Nazis seem militantly straight. They have tried to disrupt gay parades, describe gay people as "evil", and BNP leader Nick Griffin reacted charmingly to the bombing of the Admiral Duncan pub in 1999 with a column saying, "The TV footage of gay demonstrators [outside the scene of carnage] flaunting their perversion in front of the world's journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures repulsive."

But scratch to homophobic surface and there's a spandex swastika underneath. In 1999, Martin Webster, a former National Front organiser and head honcho in the British fascist movement, wrote a four-page pamphlet detailing his 'affair' with Nick Griffin. "Griffin sought out intimate relations with me," openly-gay Webster explained, "in the late 1970s. He was twenty years younger than me." Ray Hill, who infiltrated the British fascist movement for twelve years to gather information for anti-fascist groups, says it's all too plausible. Homosexuality is "extremely prevalent" in the upper echelons of the British far right, and at one stage in the 1980s nearly half of the movement's organisers were gay, he claims.

Gerry Gable, editor of the anti-fascist magazine 'Searchlight', explains, "I have looked at Britain's Nazi groups for decades and this homophobic hypocrisy has been there all the time. I cannot think of any organisation on the extreme right that hasn't attacked people on the grounds of their sexual preference and at the same time contained many gay officers and activists."

Griffins' alleged gay affair would stand in a long British fascist tradition. The leader of the skinhead movement all through the 1970s was a crazed, muscled thug called Nicky Crane. He was the icon of a reactionary backlash against immigrants, feminism and the 'hippy' lifetsyle of the 1960s. His movement's emphasis on conformity to a shaven, dehumanised norm resembled classical fascist movements; Crane soon became a campaigner and leading figure in the National Front. Oh, and he was gay. Before he died of AIDS in the mid-1980s, Crane came out and admitted he had starred in many gay porn videos. Just before he died in 1986, he was allowed to steward a Gay Pride march in London, even though he still said he was "proud to be a fascist."

The rubber-soled friction between gay fascists and progressive British gay people sparked into anger in 1985 when the Gay Skinhead Movement organised a disco at London's Gay Centre. Several lesbians in particular objected to the "invasion" of the centre. They felt that the cult of "real men" and hypermasculine thugs was stirring up the most base feelings "in the very place, the gay movement, where you would least expect them."

And this Gaystapo has an icon to revere, an alternative Fuhrer to worship: the lost gay fascist leader Ernst Rohm. Along with Adolf Hitler, Rohm was the founding father of Nazism. Born to conservative Bavarian civil servants in 1887, Ernst Rohm's life began - in his view - in the "heroic" trenches of the First World War. Like so many of the generation who formed the Nazi Party, he was nurtured by and obsessed with the homoerotic myth of the trenches - heroic, beautiful boys prepared to die for their brothers and their country.

He emerged from the war with a bullet-scarred face and a reverence for war. As he put it in his autobiography, "Since I am an immature and wicked man, war and unrest appeal to me more than the good bourgeois order." After being disbanded, he tried half-heartedly to get a foothold in civilian life, but he saw it as alien, bourgeois, boring. He had no political beliefs, only prejudices - particularly hatred of Jews. Historian Joachim Fest describes Rohm's generation of alienated, demobbed young men humiliated by defeat as "agents of a permanent revolution without any revolutionary idea of the future, only a wish to eternalize the values of the trenches."

It was Rohm who first spotted the potential of a soap-box ranter called Adolf Hitler. He saw him as the demagogue he needed to mobilize support for his plan to overthrow democracy and establish a "soldier's state" where the army ruled untrammelled. He introduced the young fascist to local politicians and military leaders; they knew him for many years as "Rohm's boy." Gay historian Frank Rector notes, "Hitler was, to a substantial extent, Rohm's protégé." Rohm integrated Hitler into his underground movement to overthrow the Weimar Republic.

Rohm's blatant, out homosexuality seems bizarre now, given the gay genocide that was to follow. He talked openly about his fondness for gay bars and Turkish baths, and was known for his virility. He believed that gay people were superior to straights, and saw homosexuality as a key principle of his proposed Brave New Fascist Order. As historian Louis Snyder explains, Rohm "projected a social order in which homosexuality would be regarded as a human behaviour pattern of high repute... He flaunted his homosexuality in public and insisted his cronies do the same. He believed straight people weren't as adept at bullying and aggression as homosexuals, so homosexuality was given a high premium in the SA." They promoted an aggressive, hypermasculine form of homosexuality, condemning "hysterical women of both sexes", in reference to feminine gay men.

This belief in the superiority of homosexuality had a strong German tradition that grew up at the turn of the twentieth century around Adolf Brand, publisher of the country's first gay magazine. You could call it 'Queer as Volk': they preached that gay men were the foundation of all nation-states and represented an elite, warrior caste that should rule. They venerated the ancient warrior cults of Sparta, Thebes and Athens.

Rohm often referred to the ancient Greek tradition of sending gay solider couples into battle, because they were believed to be the most ferocious fighters. The famous pass of Thermopylae, for example was held by 300 soldiers - who consisted of 150 gay couples. In its early years, the SA - Hitler and Rohm's underground army - was seen as predominantly gay. Rohm assigned prominent posts to his lovers, making Edmund Heines his deputy and Karl Ernst the SA commander in Berlin. The organisation would sometimes meet in gay bars. The gay art historian Christian Isermayer said in an interview, "I got to know people in the SA. They used to throw riotous parties even in 1933... I once attended one. It was quite well-behaved but thoroughly gay. But then, in those days, the SA was ultra-gay."

On June 30th 1934, Rohm was awoken in a Berlin hotel by Hitler himself. He sprang to his feet and saluted, calling, "Heil Mein Fuhrer!" Hitler said simply, "You are under arrest," and with that he left the room, giving orders for Rohm to be taken to Standelheim prison. He was shot that night. Rohm was the most high-profile kill in the massacre known as 'the Night of the Long Knives'.

Rohm had been suspected by Hitler of disloyalty, but his murder began a massive crackdown on gay people. Heinrich Himmler, head of the Gestapo, described homosexuality as "a symptom of degeneracy that could destroy our race. We must return to the guiding Nordic principle: extermination of degenerates."

German historian Lothar Machtan argues that Hitler had Rohm - and almost all of the large number of gay figures within the SA - killed to silence speculation about his own homosexual experiences. His 'evidence' for Hitler being gay is shaky and has been questioned by many historians, although some of his findings are at least suggestive. A close friend of Hitler's during his teenager years, August Kubizek, alleged a "romantic" affair between them. Hans Mend, a despatch rider who served alongside Hitler in the First World War, claimed to have seen Hitler having sex with a man. Hitler was certainly very close to several gay men, and never seems to have had a normal sexual relationship with a woman, not even his wife, Eva Braun.

Rudolph Diels, the founder of the Gestapo, recorded some of Hitler's private thoughts on homosexuality. "It had destroyed ancient Greece, he said. Once rife, it extended its contagious effects like an ineluctable law of nature to the best and most manly of characters, eliminating from the breeding pool the very men the Volk most needs." This idea - that homosexuality is 'contagious' and, implicitly, tempting - is revealing.

Rohm is venerated on the Homo-Nazi sites that have bred on the internet like germs in a wound. They have names like Gays Against Semitism (with the charming acronym GAS), and the Aryan Resistance Corps (ARC). Their Rohmite philosophy is simple: while white men are superior to other races, gay men are "the masters of the Master Race". They alone are endowed with the "capacity for pure male bonding" and the "superior intellect" that is needed for "a fascist revolution." The ARC even organises holiday "get-togethers" for its members where "you can relax amongst the company of our fellow white brothers."

So it's fairly easy to establish that gay people are not inoculated from fascism. They have often been at its heart. This begs the bigger question: why? How did gay people - so often victims of oppression and hate - become integral to the most hateful and evil political movement of all? Is it just an extreme form of self-harm, the political equivalent to the gay kids who slash their own arms to ribbons out of self-hate?

Gay pornographer and film-maker Bruce LaBruce has one explanation. He claims that "all gay porn today is implictly fascist. Fascism is in our bones, because it's all about glorifying white male supremacy and fetishizing domination, cruelty, power and monstrous authority figures." He has tried to explore the relationship between homosexuality and fascism in his movies, beginning with 'No Skin Off My Ass' in 1991. In his disturbing 1999 film "Skin Flick', a bourgeois gay couple - one black, one white - are sexually terrorised by a gang of gay skinheads who beat off to 'Mein Kampf' and beat up 'femmes'. He implies that bourgeois gay norms quickly break down to reveal a fascist lurking underneath; the movie ends with the black character being raped in front of his half-aroused white lover, as the racist gang chant, "Fuck the monkey."

I decided to track down some gay fascists and ask them directly. Wyatt Powers, director of the ARC, says, "I always knew in my heart racist and gay were both morally right. I don't see any conflict between them. It's only the Jew-owned gay press that tries to convince us that racialism is the same thing as homophobia. You can be an extreme nationalist and gay without any contradiction at all."

One comment board on a gay racist website goes even further into racist lunacy. One gay man from Ohio says, "Even if you are gay and white, or retarded and white, YOU ARE WHITE, BOTTOM LINE! Instead of letting the white race go extinct because of worthless races such as the Africans or Mexicans popping out literally millions of babies a day, we have to fight this fucked up shit they are doing. They are raping our country." It's true that racism and homophobia do not necessarily overlap - but as Rabbi Bernard Melchman explains, "Homophobia and anti-Semitism are so often part of the same disease." Racists are usually homophobic. Even after reading all their web rantings, I didn't feel any closer to understanding why so many gay men ally themselves with people who will almost always turn on them in the end, just as the Nazis did.

Gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell has a sensitive and intriguing explanation. "There are many reasons for this kind of thing," he says. "Some of them are in denial. They are going for hyper-masculinity, the most extreme possible way of being a man. It's a way of ostentatiously rejecting the perceived effeminacy of the homosexual 'Other'. These troubled men have a simple belief in their minds: 'Straight men are tough. Queers are weak. Therefore if I'm tough I can't be queer.' It's a desperate way of proving their manhood."

'Searchlight' magazine - the bible of the British anti-fascist movement, with moles in every major far-right organisation - offers an alternative explanation. "Generally condemned by a society that continues to be largely hostile to gays, some men may find refuge and a new power status in the far right," one of their writers has explained. "Through adherence to the politics espoused by fascist groups, a new identity emerges - one where they aren't outcasts, because they are White Men, superior to everyone else. They render the gay part of their identity invisible - or reject the socially less acceptable parts, like being feminine - while vaunting what they see as superior."

But there's another important question: will fascist movements inevitably turn on gay people? In the case of the Nazis, it seems to have been fairly arbitrary; Hitler's main reason for killing Rohm was unrelated to his sexuality. From my perspective as a progressive-minded leftie, all fascism is evil; but should all gay people see it as inimical to their interests? Is it possible to have a gay fascist who wasn't acting against his own interests? Fascism is often defined as "a political ideology advocating hierarchical government that systematically denies equality to certain groups." It's true that this hierarchy could benefit gay people at the expense of, say, black people. But given the prevalence of homophobia, isn't that - even for people who don't see fascism as inherently evil - a terrible risk to take? Won't a culture that turns viciously on one minority get around to gay people in the end? This seems, ultimately, to be the lesson of Ernst Rohm's pitiful, squalid little life.

The growing awareness of the role gay men play in fascist movements has been abused by some homophobes. In an especially nutty work of revisionist history called 'The Pink Swastika', the 'historian' Scott Lively tries to blame gay people for the entire Holocaust, and describes the murder of gay men in the camps as merely "gay-on-gay violence." A typical website commenting on the book claims absurdly, "The Pink Swastika shows that there was far more brutality, rape, torture and murder committed against innocent people by Nazi homosexuals than there even was against homosexuals themselves."

Yet we can't allow these madmen to prevent a period of serious self-reflection from the gay movement. If Bruce LaBruce is right, many of the mainstream elements of gay culture - body worship, the lauding of the strong, a fetish for authority figures and cruelty - provide a swamp in which the fascist virus can thrive. Do some gay people really still need to learn that fascists will not bring on a Fabulous Solution for gay people, but a Final Solution for us all?
74
No, Dan, you're a racist, a hypocrite and a liar. I'm pasting this in from the blog of a writer who happens to be both black and gay, who responded to Dan's racist rant.:

In his controversial, shit-starting column, Savage quipped, “I’m searching for some exit poll data from California. I’ll eat my shorts if gay and lesbian voters went for McCain at anything approaching the rate that black voters went for Prop 8.” I’m not sure which rate he’s referring to; the one grounded in fact, or the hysterical whine of distortion that he’s helped put out. But as it turns out, according to the gay Republican organization Log Cabin Republicans, gays & lesbians did vote in unprecedented numbers for McCain. In a press email sent out on November 6th, the organization’s president, Patrick Sammon, wrote:

Losing hurts. There’s no way to sugarcoat it. We’re disappointed Sen. McCain lost. We’re heartbroken Proposition 8 seems to have passed in California along with anti-marriage amendments in Florida and Arizona & a gay adoption ban in Arkansas. And we’re sorry to see several Log Cabin allies lose their re-election campaign. But there is some good news from the election and there’s an opportunity for Log Cabin members to help build a new Republican majority.

Exit polls show Sen. John McCain received at least 1.3 million votes from gay and lesbian Americans—more than any other Republican Presidential candidate has ever received. He garnered 27% of the LGBT vote, an increase from 19% support for President Bush four years ago.”
75
Dan is my hero!
76
Y'know - minorities, Latinos AND blacks, voted for Prop 8. So did Mormons & older people. Being angry about that, mentioning it, does not make Dan a racist. Is Jon Stewart a racist? Are any of the news reporters who reported on this phenomenon racists? No - they were reporting a statistic. Dan's reaction to that statistic is angry, but not racist. I think he's getting slapped w/ that label 'cause he's an angry white guy.

& I'm not all pro-Dan, either, I still resent the anti-bi stance he displays frequently. But he's not displaying racism by pointing out who voted in support of Prop 8.
77
@74 If you want to argue, argue. But there's no need for the "racist, hypocrite, and liar" nonsense. That kind of name calling isn't going to help anyone. Except Tony Perkins who would love nothing more than to see gays fighting each other.
78
Eva, so what if they did, they have a civil right to vote as they choose. Are you saying that someone should be able to persecute you for how you vote, should you lose your job for how you vote? You'd consider that a violation of your rights, but you turn around and demand the right to persecute others because of how they might have voted?

Dan Savage, and other racist, fascistic gays used faulty exit poll data from CNN, that wasn't based on zip codes to ensure a true break down based on local demographics, to excuse his racist, hateful rant. To excuse racist epithets, violence and persecution.

Apparently he doesn't expect that rich, white gays like himself, and his fellow Log Cabin Republicans should have to be held to the same standards. They vote for right wingers, so they can get bigger tax breaks, and don't mind those right wingers promoting policies that harm gays, lesbians and everyone else, not wealthy enough to purchase protection.

So yeah, Dan Savage is a racist, a hypocrite and a liar, and he's a coward as well.
79
COMMENT DELETED: Threatening We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.
80
Racism and fascism? Really? You might want to think before you throw around shit like that and *then* post Dan's address. For real. Step back from the ledge. You just sound like a loon right now. It's not helping your point of view at all.
81
I was looking for you at the protest last night. cause i'm trying real hard to meet you.
82
Yeah! Definitely a coward, too, man!

Now... you were going to leave your home address here in the comments, too, right j? And your real name?
83
Hey, J, you stupid fuck. The more I read of your nonsensical comments the more I'm pretty sure you have no fucking idea what the fuck you're fucking talking about. Fuck. Log Cabin Republicans? Dan? The fucking hell are you talking about? STFU already.

Blessings to you.
84
Thank you, Dan.
85
Wow. I hope I'm never a celebrity. It's not an altogether great gig.
86
when equality is considered radical liberalism, something is wrong with society
87
#79, I'm pretty sure that posting someone's address is really uncool. I'm going to put this as eloquently as possible - YOUR A DOUCHE BAG.

Dan's not an organization, nor is he an elected official chosen to represent us. He's just voicing his personal opinions. You can disagree, but you crossed a weird line now.
88
J, I was going to ask you just how rich, gay, Log Cabin Republican men like Dan can "purchase protection" from bans on gay marriage, but instead I made you this hat. Careful, the tinfoil tears easy.
89
WTF?!?

I know that I'm mostly a lurker, but J was my handle dammit.

That guy (j) is a douche.

That interview was fantastic. I was particularly fond of "You're stripping me of my rights and I'm interrupting you. Who's really suffering?"
90
I didn't like the talking over each other style, but I also enjoyed Perkins not getting a word in edge-wise.

What was interesting is that most of these shows feature people with faux-indignation over an issue and Dan showed actual anger, which was refreshing.

Sadly, I think Perkins came off as confident while Dan came off as defensive, but Perkins also came off as a clued-out patriarch, not a good look this year.
91
That was awesome, Dan. I appreciated that you didn't give equal time to lies. My apartment literally cheered when you said ""You stripped me of my rights, and I interrupt you. Who's really suffering here?"

Thank you.
92
Oh, posting names and addresses is uncool is it? You mean like the way Savage posted names and addresses of Washington donors to Yes on 8?

I'm deeply, deeply ashamed that gays are represented in public by intolerant morons like Savage. Instead of going out there and building coalitions and support for our cause, we're engaging in endless recrimination and division. I don't see how any of these protests will help the cause.
93
46 said: Bottom line, the majority (of which I am a member) should never be voting on the rights and privileges of a minority. That's not our job, and we seldom get it right.

I totally agree with this. Civil Rights legislation never would have passed if left up to the voters of some states. Issues of rights for minority groups should be decided judicially not by bigots who vote.
94
@92. It's okay to disagree with Dan's first reaction to focus on the exit polls from CA. That's cool. But to then jump the shark and start these personal attacks is just not useful. Did you even listen to Dan last night?

Recriminations ARE useful. Sorry. The Mormons funded this; the Mormons are fair game. Protesting in front of their churches isn't that big of a deal. They'll get used to it. Actions have consequences. We shouldn't have to play nice with people who spread lies and fear about us in order to take away our rights. Fuck that. Fuck. That.

Blessings.
95
At first glance, "Yes, I just went on Anderson Cooper..." looked to me like, "Yes, I just went down on Anderson Cooper..."

And I was really impressed for about 5 seconds.
96
94, did I listen to Dan last night? I confess that it was a little difficult to listen to him. When he wasn't interrupting, he had two modes: indignation and hysterics. Something he didn't try: constructive engagement and dialogue. He didn't say one worthwhile thing.

I would have liked Dan to go out there and say, hey, you know what - as a gay community, we didn't make our case to the people of California. We didn't have outreach to the African American and Latino communities. We were too content preaching to the choir.

I'd respect Dan if he were a little more consistent - why not also protest old folks' homes, Catholic Churches, and the hangouts of any other readily identifiable group that voted for Prop 8.

As a solutions-oriented person, I can't help but view the outbursts of bigotry and intolerance coming from our community as being very damaging for the long-term prospects of same-sex marriage. I can't imagine anyone who voted for Prop 8 reconsidering their vote in light of what's happened in the past week.
97
Thank you Dan for fighting the hard fight. I'll join you this Saturday in Volunteer Park.
98
Dan ... just watched you & Perkins on YouTube. THANK YOU. I can't imagine anyone else representing me as a gay person better than you. THANK YOU DAN.
99
Can a moderator please delete Dan's address? It's threatening.
100
Why should the moderator delete Dan's address? Isn't this exactly what Dan is doing to others? Threatening them for participating in the political process? Was it not Dan who, ON THIS VERY BLOG, posted names and addresses and occupations of the biggest Washington donors to Yes on 8?

Dan's message to Mormons was "you can't hit and not expect to be hit back". That works both ways, douchebag.

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