Metro should have all-weather buses that can drive on snow and ice and water. And they should always be on time and arrive every 5 minutes, going exactly where I want to go. And they should be free.

he'll have the trolleys out in the windstorm again too. i love metro but, man oh man, their management is incredibly incompetent. world class city my ass.

How did you post this before the time on the post?

the root of the problem is SDOT - the major arterials should be totally passable - you know, salt, sand, kitty litter

"Metro plans to operate on "largely normal" service hours tomorrow and Sunday, barring more snow"

Maybe they ought to check the weather report.

#3 ECB works part time as a bus scheduler

Why does Desmond sound so apologetic?

Who the hell is demanding full capacity bus service with all the ice on the roads?

Whoever it is, either get behind the wheel and drive the fucking bus yourself, or stop the whining and let Desmond do his job.

Princess.

I would agree with the communication of these changes to riders being the crux of the issue. I waited for a ton of buses that didn't come yesterday and today - this after going online to find which ones were running and attempting (while waiting forever for a bus) to call several numbers that just didn't work... and then getting passed by! Frustrating. I totally understand that buses can't be out in the ice - but damn, this information shouldn't be like pulling teeth for commuters to figure out.

I'll tell you what's up with them. They suck! Mass transit is nothing but social engineering and it must be stopped.

DEFUND METRO! BUILD MORE ROADS!

You cannot operate a transit system based on surface street buses in areas that have traffic-affecting snow and ice. Look at the cities of the Northeast and northern Midwest. Seattle needs to ask itself if it wants to invest in a transit system that will run regardless of weather. So far, the answer has been, "No!"

Desmond response sounds pretty reasonable to me.

The weather of the last few days is a rarity in Seattle, and god knows the car-centric taxpayers don't want to "overfund" Metro for something that happens a couple days every few years.

People are freaking, and I understand it sucks for some more than others to not be able to get to work, but I think you've got to admit defeat every once in a while and just let the city shut down.

People are going to be pointing fingers and demanding money for more weather preparedness measures, but I think it's a waste. If every 5 or so years Seattle is brought to its knees for a few days, just let it happen. One bus dangling over a cliff per weather cycle is enough, I think.

It's not Metro's fault that the Loons won't let them pour the miracle compound known as NaCl ( salt ) on the roads.

This guy sounds like a good public manager who knows what the public values and is frustrated by the way the system fucks with the clients and taxpayers who make the whole thing possible to begin with.

Which means he'll likely be fired. Bye Kevin!

For 30 years Seattle has tried to make buses act like trains. As a result, we get to experience 70,000 lb / 70 ft long articulated buses, which act like beached whales in half an inch of snow. The transportation system in this region is a joke, thanks to the whiners and complainers who kept telling us "we can do it with buses." Funny how the people who make that ridiculous claim rarely use the bus system, themselves.

If metro were wize, they'd of paid attention to the 1962 Worlds Fair attraction, World of Century 21: Snow.

The city as a whole needs to rethink it's snow policy. Pick a few arterials, clean them, restrict them to emergency vehicles, buses and maybe 3+ HOVs. Post snow emergency route signs and make it illegal to park on them in a snow emergency. Cities in the midwest adopt bits and pieces of all of the above during snow emergencies.

Why does the Seattle Transit Blog credit the slog for this photo while the Slog credits the Seattle Transit Blog?

"Barring more snow"...really? http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2008/12/th…

I thought the Metro did a pretty good job today, all things considered. And placing the decision in the hands of managers in the field was the right move.

As always, thank you for being an advocate of bus riders, ECB. I can't see anyone on one of the dailies editorial board getting up in arms about Metro, at least from the point of view of us transit commuters.

oh, just shut up bitch.

My girlfriend is stuck at the Junction in West Seattle.

We don't have a car. The taxis are all taken.

wtf am I supposed to do?!

ok the bus finally came

@1 captures the whiny attitude of these self-absorbed, self-centered little titty-babies to a tee.

We get a once-every-half-century one-two punch of extended low temps combined with moderate snowfall in a city full of hills, and these morons have nothing better to do but complain about the fact they don't have BETTER fucking access to their jobs or shopping malls than they do when there ISN'T ANY FUCKING SNOW!

Fuck 'em. Fuck 'em all. If they can't negotiate the roads in their cars in their present condition; can't deal with the inevitable reality of a public transit system that is reeling from exactly the SAME FUCKING WEATHER CONDITIONS; or can't get off their fat, lazy asses and WALK to their fucking jobs, then so far as I'm concerned, they can all fuck off; they're all a bunch of cry-baby wankers.

Because, you know what? - that's EXACTLY what I DID today - bused as far as I could get, and then walked the remaining two miles to my fucking job. And It's not my fault none of my co-workers did the same, resulting in my being locked out of my office, now is it? (Although in truth, it IS my fault I left my office keys setting on my desk when I left on Wednesday. Still, I made the FUCKING EFFORT.)

Thanks METRO, you-all did better than these pussies deserve.

@25

Uphill both ways, Comte?

All of this is just another reason why light rail is the way to go - too bad Seattle has been so very slow to realize it.

You're pointing fingers in the wrong direction. Where is your post that says "WHAT'S UP WITH SDOT???"

I was just happy with the way the Metro drivers are handling all this. I rode on four buses today, and all the drivers I saw were helpful and in fairly decent moods. I have to imagine the re-routes are pretty stressful for them, too. But they patiently answered everyone's questions about other route revisions, and kept their cool while the occasional asshole yelled at them for things that aren't their fault.

@22 seriously? that's your contribution to the conversation?

#13 Salt causes rust, that is why they don't wnt to use it.

Thanks Erica for interviewing Metro (more interviews please).

I have been saying for almost 20 years that Metro needs to get rid of the trolley buses and their unsightly wires because they can't run in windstorms, heavy snow, or power outages and I have been on, or stuck behind, at least two buses a year that has had its poles snapped off. Replace them with diesel/electric buses.

As far as articulated buses are concerned, unless you want to pay more taxes so Metro can buy twice as many buses and hire twice as many bus drivers, then they are a necessary evil.

We get a once-every-half-century one-two punch of extended low temps combined with moderate snowfall

I'm thirty-nine, and can recall similar one-two punches in November 1985, February 1989, December 1990 (December 18th, 1990, in point of fact -- I only remember the date 'cause it was exactly one week before Xmas Day), and December 1996. Those a few years older that myself can no doubt recall some more.

That said, I do agree with your point that people should stay out of their motor-cars in times such as these.

Stop whining about the electric trolly busses and the articulated busses. They work just fine for an average of 362 days a year.

It is ridiculous to replace half the bus fleet with smaller diesel busses (well, more than half since you'd have to buy a bunch extra to replace the articulated busses) for the average of 3 days a year we get snow.

Yes, days like this suck when you're trying to get somewhere. It sucks whether you're in a car or trying to catch a bus (or on a charter bus, as we saw this afternoon). But it's only 3 days a year, on average. Get over it and move on.

I could give a fuck about the timeliness of bus service in snow BUT....

Thursday I was 4x'ing to stock up on basic needs. Every major arterial that SDOT had managed to sand/plow was blocked by stuck buses. These buses were mostly un-chained and we are talking 3 pm in a winter storm that started at 5:30 am.

Why were they still trying to get unchained, articulated buses through at 3 pm?

ALSO, and this is a big also, if I got my truck stuck blocking a major arterial I would get cited and my vehicle impounded in the interest of keeping the streets open. Metro is allowed to take their time until their own meager 'fleet' of tow trucks can clear the roads. This is BS! Metro had hundreds of buses blocking dozens or hundreds of major routes and all are allowed to remain until their 5 or so tow vehicles can clear them out. If Metro wants to keep this level of subsidization (trust me, the private tow companies would love the chance to bill metro for towing buses) they need to supplement the level of sanding and plowing.

What I mean by this is that Metro tries to continue service on the only sanded streets but then when they block the street not only do they remove public transportation, they also make private movement impossible but, more importantly, they also block emergency vehicle access. The route I finally managed to use to get to Capitol Hill would be impassible for a ladder truck trying to get to a fire.

This region needs to stop giving Metro a free pass and start holding them accountable!

METRO SUCKS! The free-ride zone SUCKS!

Mass transit is great but not when they put the public at risk by blocking the few passable streets.

@25. I'm sorry your life is so hard that you can't recognize snark.

This guy sounds overwelmed. I wonder if he is really Rick Moranis from Ghostbusters 2

Solution: City should license Hummer Taxis.

Face it: a light rail train or trolley can get stuck if a truck or car blocks its path.

Buses become beached leviathans.

Solution: 4 wheel high off the ground yellow Hummer Cabs...can drive over snow, or stalled Hondas...can use road, shoulder, margin or crash through guard rail onto forest and tear a new roadway to major destinations.

Seattle, give up your rarified ways...you're supposed to be part of that whole Northern Exposure scenario...get with the trekkin'

@18 FTW.

We took the picture from a Dan Savage post, ECB took from us. It's the circle of life.

Desmond, that is

Maybe their drivers just aren't trained well, and the people who run their system just aren't very intelligent... much like how the people who run this city aren't very intelligent.

Also:

We get a once-every-half-century one-two punch of extended low temps combined with moderate snowfall

Yes, just like the ones we got in 2007, and 2006... oh wait....

the communications are better. preweb I waited for info by calling metro to talk with people....later they added info to the 'your call is important to us tape' now they had a very nice complete website updated every few minutes. it helped.

@41:

Total bullshit. One or two days of below freezing temps does not compare to A SOLID FUCKING WEEK, PLUS.

@35: I totally recognize snark, which is simply the same thing as saying I recognize the whiny self-centeredness of people who would have made pre-Gallilean Catholicism seem tame by comparison.

@32: I remember those winters as well. In '85 I drove my 1972 Chevy Impala from Sea-Tac up 99 to my job in P-Square sans chains and without so much as a stall. Feb '89 I think I was in Spokane, so I'm biased; December '90 I lived between Redmond & Fall City and IIRC nothing moved - I mean NOTHING - for days; Christmas '96 was the worst in my book. I was living in N Greenwood when on New Years Eve the 2 1/2 FEET of snow that got dumped on us melted within 24 hours and flooded my below-ground-level basement apartment.

So, yeah things could be worse. But, I wouldn't WANT them to be...

It doesn't make sense to build a traffic system in Seattle that's designed to run well in snow/ice like they have in the NE. It would cost us millions we don't have and we'd use it, what, on average of one or two days a year? The rest of the time the snow plows and salt/sand trucks would sit idle. Deal with the disruption like adults and stop complaining so much.

It's fine for Metro to reduce service during snowstorms, but to have NO service to upper Queen Anne (routes 2, 3, 4, 13) a full day later is inexcusable. Not all their buses are articulated, and the bus route was easily passable today with chains (and probably without, though I've never driven a bus).

43. Did you forget that those storms in 07 and 06 left us covered in ice for a full week as well, Comte? Because I don't.

@32 - Blame it global warming... Oh, wait... lol

I don't understand why Metro ever sends out those articulated buses in the snow. They always fail, chains or not. Maybe they can be used for selected flatland express buses (PnRs to downtown and back), but otherwise they are a menace.

Run the short buses instead.

ECB: Stop blaming Metro! This is simply a problem of suburban sprawl. When the weather gets bad and crazy, don't expect to be able to get anywhere! Period. The problem involves the fact that people can't use their own two feet (and if necessary, snow shoes) to get food, heat, or other necessities that could be found in dense urban centers.

Listen to Natuba: Go With Hummer Cabs:

http://www.natuba.com/photo/XhiK8H/

Erica, I live in West Seattle and it was a pain in the ass to get to work this morning. There are big hills here and we got more snow than you did. I waited for a 21 on 35th for 30 mins and then walked down to Delridge where I was lucky enough to catch a bus.

What do you want Metro to do? Get rid of articulated buses for the few days it might snow in Seattle even though they carry more people?

I do agree that Metro needs to do a better job of communicating snow conditions. Most of us will walk a mile or two if we know another line is running. Shit happens, get over it.

@45 Are you on crack? Easy to get a bus up QA with an inch of ice on the street? Inexcusable? Fuck!

except for the whiny kids, "Who here is really going to the udistrict? .. are you? .. you?" who ended up getting off 4 stops up the hill, the 43 was a breeze into downtown and back.

@46:

Those storms only affected parts of the area, mainly the peninsula & North end above Everett, I believe, although I do recall we got a bit of compact ice on the roadways, but it was scraped off the main arterials pretty quickly, so the ice was only problematic in re: travel for a couple of days, at most.

We're just going to be replaying these conversations upside-down and backwards for the next year.

A few days ago everyone was snickering about how Seattle closed schools when there was no snow.

A few months ago a transit column in a Seattle daily included a question about why Metro is not putting higher-capacity articulated buses on their route, because their buses are so crowded.

Six months from now the right wing will be complaining about city tax dollars spent on situations that rarely occur.

The only sane people today are those looking at the big picture, not this brief, transient event.

On Thursday there were no buses running to the top of Queen Anne from at least 6:30 am on (which is perfectly understandable) but Metro never updated their website to let riders know that buses weren't going any further than 5th & Aloha. Not once did it say the 3 or 4 were turning around at the bottom of the hill.

Thursday and Friday a number of routes also seemed to be running on "unpublished re-routes" and said to call Metro. When you can't get through on the phone that doesn't really help riders to know where to catch the bus. It's really not helpful. I'm thinking "unpublished re-routes" means we don't know where the hell your bus is.

Today, the 3 is running to the top of the hill but the 4 isn't? How does that make any sense? They operate on the same route for most of the way so why can the 3 make it but not the 4?

Also, if Metro could change the time stamp on their adverse weather page to PST instead of GMT that would be helpful too.

Why are managers doing last-minute re-routes to avoid hills that have been there unchanged longer than Metro has existed? They should have published "light snow" and "OMGBLIZZARDHELP" route maps after 1990, if not years before that. If the riders can't find out where the busses are, you might as well keep them in the barn.

"Salt is not healthy for children and other living things" . . . . like the metal parts in the body of your car and the tree roots and the fish in Lake Union, Lake Washington and Puget Sound. So, just say no to salt.

Seattle gets the snow plow service its willing to pay for, which is, not very much. Of course we don't need it very much, only a couple days per year. So quit whining that your street and driveway aren't plowed yet - you aren't willing to pay the taxes for that. Are you ready to pass a 10-year "snow plow" levy or something? I think not.

As for what kind of job SDOT does do, you voters keep approving of the job they're doing by voting Nickels into office over and over. Voters here have gotten pretty much exactly what they've voted for, so quit whining or pick someone else (viable) to run and back them till they get elected. (Note to Seattle: "Al Runte" does not equal "viable").

As for Metro, if only they could figure out how that thar new fangled 'internets' thing workz maybe they couldz post changes on that thar thang. I mean, with all the people with cell phones you'd think they'd deploy some wireless device-friendly version of their schedule pages or something. No, "mybus" doesn't seem to work well - usually I get a reply text only after 10 or 20 minutes and then its often incomprehensible.

Of course, given the extreme 'challenges' King County government has with upgrading computer systems - what has it been like 10 years they've been trying to upgrade their software systems and each time they manage to blow like $2 million on something that turns out not to work? I mean, with all the techies in Seattle you'd think for that much moola they could just hire someone to write completely new code from scratch and be done with it.

Have you ever tried to figure out the 'secret #' for your bus stop by using Metro's rider info line? Insane - it can take 10 to 15 minutes to work the menu and that assumes you don't accidentally hit a wrong entry and have to start over. Portland has come up with a brilliant idea - they stencil the bus stop # on the bus stop sign - OMG?! Who'd have thought such a crazy idea like that could work? Those Portlanders are so far ahead of the curve its scary!

The daily Metro mantra - repeat after me: "its not about the customers, we have no customers, the apparent reality of customers and their needs are a trick of Satan and must be denied at all costs." Yes, there are lots of bus drivers who are wonderful people, but that doesn't excuse the agency from being as disappointing as it is.

If ever there was a city/region that needed a Bus/Transit Riders Union to bludgeon Metro into some approximation of common sense, this is it.

So ECB, when are you holding the first meeting? I'll be there.

I was on a 16. It got to Stone Way and 45th and announced it was going up Stone Way instead of down 45th. I started walking down 45th and saw a woman jumping up and down with excitement that the bus was falling coming. I had to tell her to go chase it down because it wasn't going down the street -- She didn't know that because there were no announcements, no signs, no web site, no text messages. The Metro site lists an entirely different re-reouting and it isn't mentioned at all on the Trip Planner.

It's total f-cking bullsh-t. Even if we can't do anything about the snow, we CAN do something about the communication. Come on METRO! Man the phones! Get an opt-in text system in place!

Amy @29 made the most sensible point on this thread. I've been on the Metro three times since yesterday morning and all of the drivers were pleasant and professional. This certainly isn't their fault, yet they are the ones enduring all kinds of comments from some very rude assholes. (I've wondered what Ecce Homo has been up to lately...)

That said, NOW can we please get serious about building light rail?

Gots chainz?

No?

@59: Both my drivers today were awesome. I'm mad at the organization, not the rank and file. I just saw a 26 going down 45th. These really are the end times.

Management at work docked the pay of everyone who did not show up. If everyone who had the option of telecommuting, did, then I wouldn't have been standing on Aurora watching nine 358s filled to capacity rolling on by our stop Thursday afternoon.

Saw someone with cross-country skiis swooshing up the sidewalk instead--that's my new plan for Monday morning.

trolley buses are awesome because they do not use fossil fuel.
also, it's not worth the money to outfit the buses for a once or twice a year 1 day long storm (this year is wacky as this storm is lasting a week).
when it snows, take the day off. get over it. weather happens.
thanks, metro.
go lightrail.

and if you bosses are assholes about it, that really sucks. i will wish evil on them if you like.

When I moved here I got a place near major bus lines, and within walking distance of the city, and lo, I have been able to either walk to work, library, grocery, and/or none of my regular buses have been cancelled anyway.

@58 - That's exactly the problem. Until Metro learns how to use their big-boy words, and tell their *customers* exactly WTF is going on, they deserve all the shit they are going to get over the next few days.