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The momentum is ours. It's just a matter of time.
It is very true that when a group is attacked members of that group tend to band together and fight, and fight publicly and vocally. When the attacks subside, so does the "visibility" of the group's concerns and issues - and this usually comes about because the group has won acceptance, inclusion, and rights within the society in which they live.
This has happened with the Jewish community, and with other groups as well. Once the foes stop blocking rights, members of the group tend to assimilate into the general population with the majority of said population not really bothering to give those group members a second thought - thus accepting them as members of the community.
Whoa! Intense.
But "vulgar church weddings"? I didn't get married in a church (cus I find them vulgar) but don't go all Bill Maher on the churchies. Some of them are on your side man, and some of them are almost there but calling their tradition vulgar isn't going to pull them over.
Just a thought, I otherwise really dig this slog!
Nothing's gonna pull them over. I don't think Dan was trying to win them over but rather just to show them how pointless their efforts are. They can waste their time and energy and money trying to stop gay marriage, or they can work on more useful things. Their choice.
@Dan, I think you should use this as a tagline for your column or a book.
To @6 -- capitalization is important.
"do not think they are going to get away scot free without damage"
"If there's one thing they worship, it's money. Take away the money that fuels them"
Some people are personally going on the record as anti-gay bigots by signing petitions and years from now, they will have to answer for it. Either socially, politically or maybe even financially as religion will no longer be a socially acceptable cover for homophobia and their failed attempt to try and break up gay families and their children.
Rather, they correctly gauge that there are a sufficient number of people out there who are uncomfortable with issues of sexuality or feeling insecure about their own marriage vows who, given the opportunity for some kind of public affirmation of their shakey beliefs, will reach for their checkbooks.
We are their cash cow. It's all about raising money. And given the fact that they're paying the mortgages on their vacation homes in Del Ray Beach or wherever by preying on the fears of hardworking lower-income families who do their best to make it to church on Sunday in an effort to keep their lives from completely falling apart makes them absolute unmitigated shetbegs in my book.
They know they're on the losing side of history. It's just rabble rousing to boost donations.
There truly is a place in hell reserved for them.
I don't disagree with anything, I just don't know what's got you on the soap box.
Btw, I just finished reading "The Commitment" and I loved it. :)
(psst. the 3rd 'our' in the 3rd paragraph should be 'are'.)
Translation, We (gay marriage advocates) are going to influence, and teach your kids our values not you.
"And we're going to keep suing and marching and organizing and electing homos "
Translation, We are going to radicalize your school boards, make the teaching of homosexuality a mandatory school subject and persecute through the judicial system those who oppose us and those adherents to faith.
I value too much my family to surrender it to the type of ideology you promote Mr Savage. I will not give up on my country and the moral values that sustain it because some opt to call those like me names. I know I'm fighting the good fight, not out of hatred for no one but out of love for my family my community and my country. People like me are on the side of nature, morality and winning side history. We will not surrender it to you.
"on the side of nature"
You don't know much about nature, huh?
http://www.livescience.com/animals/09061…
http://bit.ly/15HGPd
What gay man broke your heart and turned you into such a bitter, ignorant, bigoted shrew?
Was it the discovery of the gay porn stash in your husbands drawer? The hot football QB in highschool who chose to take a boy to prom and not you? The fact that you will never have Ricky Martin?
Witness to us Loveschild! We're here to help!
Reading comprehension not quite up to speed yet today? First quote you offered from Dan -- you kinda, well, totally missed the point:
Dan: And we're going to live our lives openly and without shame to give hope to your gay children.
Loveschild: Translation, We (gay marriage advocates) are going to influence, and teach your kids our values not you.
TJC: Translation: Being out is easily the most important thing GLBT people can do. I [Loveschild] see your mere outness as usurping my [Loveschild's] ability to influence my [Loveschild's] children. I despise your ability and desire to life your lives with freedom and dignity because I know that upcoming generations have fewer issues with gay people because they know them as people, not stereotypes. I pine for the old days when homosexuality was considered shameful, hushed up, and forced into the closet.
TJC: Commentary: Well, kiddo, those days are gone in the USA, and they ain't comin' back, and full equality is on its way. It's taking longer than we'd like, and you occasionally succeed in delaying that train, but it will arrive.
And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures each according to his kind…
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good… Genesis 1:24-31
Nature VS Choice Part I
Nature VS Choice Part II
“Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”… So sayeth the ninth commandment Exodus (20:16)…
The Christian Wrong
Since they claim they're not against gay people, what we end up with are Anything-But-Marriage compromises. Things that aren't marriage and offer some (but not all) of the rights and responsibilities of marriage.
I've had a couple straight friends say that they wish they could get a California Registered Domestic Partnership. (Not working after four years? Send a registered letter to the Secretary of State, move out, and you're done.) Sure, there are downsides too (they don't think about those).
I always have to explain to them that people under 65 can only get a RDP with a same-sex partner. "That's discrimination!" Well, yes, of course it is.
There's no good argument for denying them RDP (though none of them have sued for it yet). It just adds to the options a couple has. They don't have to get married.
Don't like the idea of same-sex couples marrying? You might be able to stop it (in the short run), but the collateral damage is opposite-sex couples who find they have other options. The unmarried same-sex couple down the street is already setting an example.
Conservatives: this is your chance to preserve marriage! Insist that same-sex couples not just live together. Tell them they need to get married.
Appreciate the suggestions. I vote that we add those to the official "Gay Agenda". It's time the bigots and haters got to feel a little bit of what we go through.
Long on talk. Short on action.
Ooh, look, a shiny pebble!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-94JhLEi…
Love you, Dan - you have my wholehearted, hetero, church-going, child-raising support and I teach my kids how to be open-minded and loving, rather than bigoted and full hate. Time is on your side, although you shouldn't have to wait. Eventually you will win - and a victory for love and equality is a victory for EVERYONE, not just gays.
"Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh."
- Abraham Lincoln
I fail to see how marriage equality will damage or destroy anything. I think couples seeking to affirm lifelong loving commitments exemplifies marriage at its best. This doesn't hurt any of us, it strengthens marriage, because it sends the message that commitments for life provide one of life's most humanizing relationships.
Good post, Dan.
"give hope to your gay children."
He made very clear what his intention is, its not only to live his life but also to indoctrinate that of children. Putting aside his erroneous assumption that there is such a thing as "gay kids", I as a parent do not need nor want to see Dan Savage on tv talking about homosexuality and I do not want his friends teaching in schools that two princes marrying each other is fine and that kids should follow example once they grow up if they wish to. No thank you Savage, you can keep that to yourself.
You're gay, fine, do what you wish with your same sex partner(s) but keep it out from other peoples lives, we do not need to see it thank you very much. And we most certainly do not need our kids to be witnessing or being taught by you that what you do is something they should aspire to. I as a parent have an obligation in a law abiding way and through the use of all the legal venues afforded to me and to the majority of americans like me to oppose such indoctrinations.
Now you would expect the father to give him the Big Lecture. How this son had failed. How he had disgraced the family. The many violations of Leviticus. How the disgraceful son should look up to his older brother – the good one, the obedient one – as an example of proper behavior.
But none of that happened.
The way Jesus told it, the father ran down the road to embrace his son, welcomed him back, invited the neighbors over, had the fattened calf slaughtered for the party, and sent for musicians to help with the celebration. He loved his son! The father’s love for his sons had nothing to do with obedience to rules; it was simply love.
Meanwhile, the older brother – who never left, who never once violated a law from his father – just could not believe that his father threw a party for the younger son. “What’s this I hear? Music? Dancing? For that sinner?” He was aghast that the father would welcome such a sinner. And he stayed out in the fields, refusing to welcome his brother.
When the story ends, the older brother is out there alone, refusing to join the party, unreconciled to his brother, unreconciled to his father."
This guest blog is from a Mudflats reader who is a retired pastor with a doctor of ministry (D. Min) degree. He is a long time Anchorage area resident who wanted to share his thoughts.
Italics are changed by me.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congre…
Loveschild--being an example of a happy healthy queer isn't about indoctrinating anyone. It's about freeing a gay child from the "christian" obligation of hating themself. If someone is truly gay, they're gay at 5 as well as 50. I certainly was.
Besides, your side certainly isn't quiet about their opinions regarding homosexuality... why should ours be?
You're gay, fine, do what you wish with your same sex partner(s) but keep it out from other peoples lives, we do not need to see it thank you very much.
Screw that! Just because you believe something that you read in an old book, you don't have the right demand that everyone else hide from your petty little eyes.
Whenever I hear that "keep it behind closed doors" BS my reaction is sure, just as soon as you stop flaunting your freaking heterosexuality in public. I'm sick and tired of seeing your kind walking down the street holding hands, kissing in public, frolicking on the dance floor and otherwise polluting my eyes with your "in your face" behavior. Tell you what, you clean up YOUR act so that I don't have to admit that I share the world with heterosexuals, and then you can start complaining that you have to share the world with us. In the meantime STFU!
Leave kids out of this, please.
Oh yes they do. Granted their concept of sex is not an adult one, but they have sexuality. Go look it up and come back to play some more.
I also think you are really not a true person because your answers are just too predictable. What I can't quite get ahold of is why anyone would bother playing such a dim character.
But then I don't really understand vandalism either.
Sorry, Loveschild. Everyone was a kid once--so everyone get's to weigh in.
As for gay kids, well, I did not know that I was gay when I was 5, but my parents sure did (and that was in 1972), which is why they spent the next decade trying to "fix" me. I didn't understand until I was 13 that I was gay, and the realization was horrifying. Imagine waking up one morning and realizing that you are the pervert, the monster, the faggot you've been warned against by parents and teachers and priests (yep, I'm Catholic).
I was in my 30s before I realized that I could be a fully functional adult as a gay man, and you bet your rear end I want gay kids going through schools today to know that hope is out there - not hope to be straight, but hope to be whole and healthy.
You want to teach your kids differently? Go ahead. But those kids will be entering a world where we won't be silent anymore, where we do live our lives openly and honestly. What happens when your kid comes home with a best friend who has two moms? Or starts their career working for a gay boss? How do you want them to represent your teachings and your morality?
You said, "... I do not want his friends teaching in schools that two princes marrying each other is fine and that kids should follow example once they grow up if they wish to."
No kid that isn't already gay will "wish to" once he or she grows up, regardless of what they're taught.
One more time: gay kids are born gay, straight kids are born straight, and everyone else in between works like that as well. If you have straight kids, no secret gay conversion tickle that scary Dan Savage, Anderson Cooper or Rosie O'Donnell have up their sleeves will work on them.
One last thing: Have a little respect, if it's possible. You aren't in any position whatsoever to deny An AAGM @ 50's experience as a child.
I never wrote that you despise anyone. Re-read my post (@30).
I wrote that you LC "despise []our ability and desire to life [sic] []our lives with freedom and dignity".
And it's true: you wrote, "You're gay, fine, do what you wish with your same sex partner(s) but keep it out from other peoples lives, we do not need to see it thank you very much. And we most certainly do not need our kids to be witnessing or being taught by you that what you do is something they should aspire to."
For some reason, you consistently have a hard time keeping "what we do" separate from "who we are" -- as if all you can picture when you hear the name "Dan Savage" is some sex act. Why do you think that is? When you hear the phrase, "Queen Elizabeth II", do you immediately think of her and Philip having sex? So why is it when you hear the phrase "gay person" does your mind immediately jump to sex?
At least, I'm assuming that's what you mean when you say, "being taught by you that what you do is something they should aspire to". Because frankly, that's just plain weird.
When someone asks me, "What do you do?" I don't assume they mean between the sheets. Perhaps I was assuming too much about you -- and you did not mean that either.
In which case, your statement just comes off as that of a crazy person: you don't want your kids to learn about computers and networking? Or writing and editing? Or automotive repair? Or farming?
Again, reading comprehension is important.
I didn't know I was bisexual when I was a kid: I didn't have the language for it. I just loved kissing boys and girls....... and I knew that, on some level I was different from the other kids. ANd now that I"m a grown up I have the capacity to say I'm differnt because I'm bisexual. But it would have been easier as a teen if I had seen ANY positive role models. And you are, in my opinion, trying to deny other kids positive role modes by saying "don't flaunt your lifestyle."
Your side will lose.
I didn't know I was bisexual when I was a kid: I didn't have the language for it. I just loved kissing boys and girls....... and I knew that, on some level I was different from the other kids. ANd now that I"m a grown up I have the capacity to say I'm differnt because I'm bisexual. But it would have been easier as a teen if I had seen ANY positive role models. And you are, in my opinion, trying to deny other kids positive role modes by saying "don't flaunt your lifestyle."
Your side will lose.
I assume most if not all on this SLOG thread disdain Lovechild's posts. Fair enough. But, I gotta say she does have gumption for better or for worse. Think about all the responses we wouldn't have read otherwise. I'm glad SLOG allows for dissent. This makes it interesing.
Being queer is a spiritual gift!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_&_King
Seems to me that your side is the one trying to inject alternative sexual acts (to kids) in all of this. There have been people who have dealt with homosexual feelings in a discreet manner without having to let those around them know about it. That's not what DS and you are advocating for, you want to put it in front of peoples faces and seek their approval. Otherwise why should second grade teachers be reading and showing drawings to kids about two princes kissing each other? My comprehension and understanding is quite well, and I do not need to hear an order of surrender from DS to know what he and his counterparts are trying to do here.
So, you gonna answer the question?
For some reason, you consistently have a hard time keeping "what we do" separate from "who we are" -- as if all you can picture when you hear the name "Dan Savage" is some sex act. Why do you think that is? When you hear the phrase, "Queen Elizabeth II", do you immediately think of her and Philip having sex? So why is it when you hear the phrase "gay person" does your mind immediately jump to sex?
Why do you immediately assume "sex" when you hear "gay?"
Gay marriage, Folsom street fair (and all others like it around the country), pride parades where every sort of phalluses and imitation of sexual acts are displayed. That's whats displayed, that's what thrown at peoples faces. That tjc is not an assumption, that's what you put out for all to see whether we like it or not.
Why do kids need to see pictures about two princes kissing each other?
Don't you SEE that dealing with homosexual feelings in a discreet manner involves staying in a shame filled closet? BEing gay is NORMAL - it isn't a shameful thing. And gays ARE NOT going away: straight people will keep haveing queer children. And I hope that those children have positive role models so they don't have to struggle to be themselves. Do you REALLY want to discriminate against an innate state?
There were straight people—loads of 'em—at IML this year, LC. It's a brave new world.
Because some of those kids are going to be gay, LC. And it won't "hurt" straight kids to see those pictures—it won't make them gay—and seeing that picture let's gay kids know that they can find love and a commitment when they grow up, that they have a place in this world too.
Which is why you hate that picture: because people like you would prefer to see your gay kids miserable and closeted and isolated and suicidal, or "right with God."
Loveschild, wants the world tailored to her whims, and the imaginary plant she lives on. She wants LGBTQ member of society to be second class citizens, to keep their proclivities out of her sight. Meanwhile, straights can keep on simulating sex acts all over the dance floors in America, while angelic brides-to-be suck on their phallic straws. After all, its heterosexuals flaunting their sexuality and there is nothing lewd about that at all.
I'm not denying the existence of some pretty messed up straight people who would venture into such "fairs" out of curiosity but these "events" are pretty much geared to a very specif group and it has very little to do with those who seek females - male displays of eroticism. Everyone who ventures into one knows what type of freak show they will vastly find there.
Correct. Additionally, some of those kids have gay parents, and they need to see their families represented in literature and culture too.
71 It's parents the ones who need to decide whats going to hurt or be beneficial for their kids, not gay advocates, not rogue political lobby groups nor any others like them. I'm the one who's teaching my kids what love and commitment is about and what will led them to a healthy and happy life once they become adults. Not school teachers and most certainly not a book about two homosexual kings.
71 It's parents the ones who need to decide whats going to hurt or be beneficial for their kids, not gay advocates, not rogue political lobby groups nor any others like them. I'm the one who's teaching my kids what love and commitment is about and what will led them to a healthy and happy life once they become adults. Not school teachers and most certainly not a book about two homosexual kings.
(shaking my head in disbelief)
LOL,
Seems strange that a church saturated in chronic sex scandals should dictate the moral behavior for the rest of the world...
Abuse Cost for Catholic Dioceses Tops $…
Your view of the homosexual lifestyle is limited to images of leather conventions and closeted pastors' fantasies. Essentially modern day pickaninny. Let your schizophrenic rants commence.
And you have never answered this question on previous threads: what is wrong with life in Canada where gay marriage has been legal since 2005 (2003 in some jurisdictions?) Nothing - that is the answer.... Queer people marry and look after children and go to Pride parades and make cookies and visit their families and fly kites and work and pay taxes .....just like the straight folks. (And yes, straight folks go to Pride parades!) Your side will lose because its postion is manifestly unjust and inequitable and plain mean.
So wouldn't gay marriage resolve that issue? If gays can marry, then the conservatives can chastise all the single gays and say "If ONLY you would get married and settle down!" Wouldn't that be a win-win? The gays have their rights, and the conservatives can still chastise them for something.
My mom was watching a soap opera, and they showed a man kissing a woman passionately. I had an automatic sexual response to it (my clitoris started throbbing). I was completely innocent, had never touched myself, had not had sex explained to me...but I remember telling my mom, "That makes my private parts tingle."
She was thrown for a loop, but to her credit she never tried to discount it or make me ashamed of it. My childhood continued to be filled with episodes like that, so I knew from a very young age that I was heterosexual.
And I come from a VERY conservative Christian background, so you can't say I don't intimately know all of the points you're making. I used to believe many of them myself. I still have many friends who hold the same views, though I am trying to win them over.
I still believe in God and the bible, I just believe that some of the stuff in there is relative to the culture of the time (for example, the slavery "support" was tied to its age).
I also confess that a lot of my early religious rigidity was because I knew myself to be a highly sexual creature, and that I needed a lot of help controlling myself. Once I got older and had better self-control, I was able to take a step back and re-evaluate my beliefs.
I suspect this is the case with a lot of extremely uptight religious folks...they cling onto their beliefs like life preservers, hoping it will keep them afloat in the midst of their more "damning" urges. (Not saying that's the case for LC, just an observation of people I know in person.)
I mean, states have whored out their moral qualms towards gambling for casinos. Why not whore out their bigoted moral qualms about homosexuals? We've got a budget deficit at the Federal level and in just about every state. Let's try to cover some of it!
Man, you're hilarious. I love you, LC.
Dan, great post!
www.godmademegay.com
I don't really like the name, but it's contents are worth the read, it was written by a Baptist Preacher. It is his response to one of his parishioners questions.
-You seem to have an issue with seeing two men kissing! I grew up seeing str8 people kissing! My thoughts do not wonder towards what they do in the bedroom, but yours seem to.
-Did you date boys growing up? Learning how to intermingle, the give and take, learning about yourself, sharing, the passion, trusting, broken heart, getting over him, moving on, and all that goes along with growing up? Well I didn't, and most LGBTQ didn't either, if they did, it's because they were trying to find someone (opposite sex) to "fix" them! Now that's a healthy life style, isn't it?
-I did not date thru puberty, I was extremely introvert! I was terrified of my self, and that someone would "find out"! I WAS THAT BAD PERSON! The one my parents warned me of! Have you told that to your children? If you have, think of the fear that you are instilling into them? A good healthy kid, frightened, because of your statements!
-Because we (LGBTQ) didn't have the (healthy) experience of dating growing up, we didn't learn about our selves! We have to learn on the fly! We don't have our Mom's at our bed side consoling us! Did you? They are trying to figure us out, what went wrong, was it their fault! We are trying to find ourselves, and dealing with all that you went thru, on our own! That's why a lot of US don't know how to have a healthy relationship! Granted, there are a few luck ones out there that had and have parents that were there for them, but for the majority of us, we did not!
-Do you follow that 10 commandments! Look at them REAL CLOSE! The bible says we all have our own free will! If so, then we CAN NOT BE COMMANDED! Moses ASKED God how do I know that I am on the right path? And God gave Moses these 10 items! They are not commandments, the are COVENANTS! Thank about that for a long moment!
-You may not want to see US on TV taking about homosexuality, we see and hear about heterosexuality every day! How about, lets not talk about either! Lets talk about life, living, love, peace, freedom, passions (not sex), joy, health, compassion, interaction, and the list can go on and on!
Please think about this! Look into your heart, your soul, within! The Bible says follow your own spirit! If you are repeating what another told you, then you are the sheep being led to
the slaughter! Please do not judge anyone with the words from what you heard, use the words from YOUR soul! May you be blessed by your Spirit, your Truth, your Love!
Keep up the good work. Achieving societal change requires that level of intensity. Hope to see posts like that regularly.
Black (women, etc ) equality movement would've gone nowhere if the leaders always played nice and werent really pissed off. Reasoning and rationalizing has its place, but real fight is a war, not a sunday dinner. Gay people have to get angry and truly fight, even if it requires some sacrifice, showing public disobedience,even getting arrested.
Nedah didnt want to die, but fight for freedom has a price tag.
Andit's USA, not iranian radical theocracy; its easier here, a part of your battle is already won. But you got to keep pushing.
Fight is tough, but victory sweet. I grew up in the former Soviet Union, I know :) If you people wont do it, the burden of getting it done will be on your sons shoulders. Just lets have it over and done with now :)
Once that takes place and an individual has reached adulthood like any habit or addiction such behaviors are very difficult (though not impossible) to overcome because the individual sees any attempt to help as an attack against him/her personally. That's why I and many other like me are focused in protecting the children and oppose any attempt at indoctrination in our schools, media, government and other public venues. We realize that it is them whom homosexual advocates are after so that societal approval of their lifestyle becomes more mainstream and with it bring to our society all that their ideology entails.
what do these 2 paragraphs of pointless demagoguery have to do with the post 87?
Charley @ 87 asked you, I quote
""...question? what are you going to do if one or all of your children are gay?""
Can you honestly answer it or not?
And may i thank you for being you :)
You, paradoxically, are doing the most incredible job to promote the gay equality case by showing your hatred, bigotry and anger towards people who your consider lesser humans then you. Keep it up, just be yourself, you doing great!! You are walking ( writing, i shall say) advertisement for why opponents of gay rights are pursuing evil goals.
You believe this ....but it isn't true. I bet you cannot find any valid peer reviewed studies that back up your belief.
And, for your information, I was raised by a stay at home mother and a father who worked outside the home - pretty standard gender roles. And I turned out bi ....and my brother was gay.
So WHAT are you gonna do when one of your kids tell you they are gay?
Mommy is very curious!!
How dare you belittle my parents that way. They are a loving couple (married 53 years and counting) Mom was a stay at home parent... she gave up a career in nursing to raise us.... Dad worked hard for a living and raised all six of us to be honest, caring, giving members of society. We are and have always been a close-knit loving family. Yet I and one of my two brother's is GAY.... were did they go wrong??
Homophobes are the result of bad parenting..... NOT gay people.
Dan's correct you are hilarious. Now you have moved on to blaming parents for gay children. So, using your argument, you're straight because your parents provided proper gender roles. Thus, Dan is gay because his mom and dad (a police officer) didn't provide proper gender roles, even though he is one of four children and the (two straight brothers, and one straight sister).
Your priceless and hilarious. Any more theories to offer?
Loveschild: you, as a parent, have the right to teach your children anything you want about what gayness means and whether it is OK or not.
However, you do NOT have the right, nor does ANY parent, to "protect" your children from the knowledge that DIFFERING OPINIONS EXIST. You can teach them that the differing opinions are wrong, but that doesn't seem to be what you are demanding here.
Yes, if schools present neutral information about homosexuality to your children, then your children may receive the impression that there are people in the world who are favorable to, or at least neutral about, homosexuality. Yes, I in fact agree with you that this DOES undermine your desire to teach your children that homosexuality is universally and indisputably immoral. Because your children will see that other decent people, including many Christians, do not share the view of homosexuality that their parents profess.
Too bad.
Your children, and my children, and Dan's son, and all the rest of us, observe the world, consider our parents' teachings, and make up our own minds. That's how it works. You as a parent can only control what you TEACH your children. And strong teachings can certainly build a foundation and a framework for children to understand what they see in the world, and you are free to hope that your children will come to view homosexuality as the sin you think it to be. Plenty of children do. But you don't get to DECIDE that. THEY do.
We're arguing about whether access to this knowledge might turn your kids gay, which is a stupid argument and I don't really think it matters. I think from your perspective, Loveschild, if your kid is "turned" gay after learning that many people think it's OK to be gay, or if your kid is "born" gay and decides it's OK to BE gay after learning that many people think it's OK to be gay, instead of repenting and entering an ex-gay ministry like you'd presumably want, either way the outcome for you is the same and not what you want.
Too bad.
You, as a parent, do NOT have the right to absolute control over information reaching your children. You only have the right to counter the information with your own teachings, and provide context for them to understand and interpret it the way you think they should.
And that's exactly what you are afraid of, which is why you're so angry about what the world might show them. The world might persuade them that you are wrong.
I guess that's up to you, isn't it? How confident are you in your own ability to convey your own values to your own children? Not very, it sounds like.
So you're not trying to "protect your children". You're trying to protect yourself.
We're here. We're queer. Your children are going to become aware that we exist and that we're not ashamed like you have taught them we ought to be and that not everybody hates us and that some states and many countries allow us to marry. Get over it.
extrapolating on that scenario. even if one or all of your children are straight, there's a good probability that eventually you'll become a grandparent. what are you going to do if one or all of the grandchildren are gay?
another question? does the 's' in your moniker 'loveschild' mean 'straight'?
My kids go to learn math, English, science, history not sexual ideology. They do not need to present anything else to them. Once they get out of school their father and me take over and it is us who teach them morality, values, how they need to present themselves in society and how they need to interact with other in a respectful manner that at the same time does not compromises the moral teachings we have imparted in them.
"You, as a parent, do NOT have the right to absolute control over information reaching your children."
Wrong you're I as all other american parents have every right to decide what type of ideology is being taught to my kids as the minors they are. Not Dan Savage, not any gay organization. If you want to teach privately to your kids that you're neutral when it comes to homosexuality, that's your right just as it's my duty to tell my kids according to their age and when the situation arises, for what purpose God has made them male and female. That's our descion and obligation as parents not that of schools, schools have no place whatsoever in teaching my kids about homosexuality, be it good, bad or neutral, I don't want it there period, because there will be homosexual activist teachers who will seize that to teach my kids what they think is okay against my values. Homosexuality has nothing to do with the subjects my kids need to graduate school or what they need to get into college, bsktcase. If you or Savage want a capture audience to indoctrinate your ideological view of what the world should be, experiment with your children, experiment with those of your friends or what might have you, but my kids and those in the public school system are not guinea pigs at your disposal. Be all queer and queenie till exhaustion but keep away from others kids, you have no right to tell my kids that being gay is fine, their father and me are the ones who will teach them right from wrong not you, not lobby groups infiltrating our schools and the government and not the media. And as long as you insist on infringing on my rights as a parent I have an obligation to defend my kids, fight and oppose every single one of your attempts against my family and values.