I support this.

They need people in their same boat, they need a non-bar space, and they need protection from violent Loveschild-types.

Being under 21 just sucks in general. In the interim, someone in the community might want to talk to one of the functioning all-ages clubs about doing a queer night?

I'd imagine there are a lot of underutilized rectories in Catholic churches that may be available.

It might be hard to be young and queer in a city that doesn't have any designated queer youth space, but it'd be a bit harder in a city where queer youth aren't socially allowed to exist.

Just saying.

How about the old Elliot Bay Book Company building?

@7, it boggles the mind to think of a late night Pioneer Square mix of underage queers and drunk frat and ex-frat boys. That said, there is a hell of a lot of empty space around for something like this. Maybe some developers sitting on unused inventory have queer kids in their families? I like the idea of getting Vera involved somehow. Queera Project.

Seattle had an LGBTQIA center that would have been great for queer youth to use. But, Seattle doesn't seem to have the 'need' or the ability to keep a place like that up and running. And @6, I agree. A QYS would be really well suited in a place where queer youth have a hard time existing, period.

I am NOT saying don't go for it. But I am saying that with a dearth of resources, perhaps we queer youth can get involved in other activities and create queer youth spaces where we play our sports, in the arts, at cafes, on city boards, etc.

And I don't agree with Kyle- it's NOT what "the constituents want". Who have you been talking to?

@ 11. OMG, I love you.

Kyle is an incredible asset to the LGBT community. He is bright, resourceful, and dedicated. I am glad to see he is working to resolve this challenging issue whose effects are far reaching. On it's face it easy to dismiss this as an entertainment concern, but many in the LGBT community are isolated from family - an isolation that occurs at a young age. Providing positive outlets and resources to our younger members can prevent the development of low self esteem, drug abuse, and yes even homelessness. I for one am looking forward to helping Kyle any way I can.

Is Lambert House no more?

"It's hard to be young and queer in Seattle," Rapinan told me.

Really? In Seattle? You should try growing up gay in rural West Texas and raised by Southern Baptist parents. These kinds of ignorant comments deserve no more respect than some Bellevue teenager complaining how hard life is becaues she has to drive her mom's old BMW. This kind of myopic thinking only shows his immaturity and lack of life experience. (Get out of the Seattle bubble much?)

What they are doing is great, but such ignorant comments don't help their cause. Especially since they may need some financial support from some of those middle-aged drunk guys trying to pick up the 19-year-olds at Neighbors.

I'm sure Rapian will never find himself middle-aged and drunk while finding some younger guy cute. Meanwhile, please tell the rest of us how you plan to survive all the unjustness placed on Seattle gay youth (compared to gay youth in the 60s and 70s) and how you will avoid ever being middle-aged, drunk, or ever finding some younger guy cute. I'm listening.

Well gee, this is a brand brand brand new complaint, I mean, wow, NOBODY has ever brought it up before! And nothing could POSSIBLY go wrong with such a space!!

It’s 1982 And You’re At The Monastery….

The Return of the Demon

we need youth space, period.

"If you're not 21, and queer, you can't do anything... and that needs to change,"

Really? You can't go to Lambert House? You can't find other young homos at the gay student groups on every campus in the city? You can't go online and find someone to go skiing with? You can't join Frontrunners (a gay running group), or the Orca swim team, or any number of other gay sports teams (none of which has an age requirement). You can't go online and find all the sex you could possibly want? Or go to a poetry reading?

You can't do any of these things until you're 21? News to me.

@17 - it's hard everywhere.

Seattle needs something like what Philly has: http://www.atticyouthcenter.org/
It's an amazing space.

Vera has done some awesome queer-focused events in 2009: awesome shows from Team Dresch/Erase Errata/Telepathic Liberation Army; Mirah/Lovers back in April; Dina Martina; hosting the Bend-it Extraganza's rad sunday events during pride. But there's always room for more. I think they tried a regular queer night some years ago and attendance was spotty, but the rad thing about that organization is that if the youth-led membership's got an idea for a new program the resources are there to try it out.

Bend-it Collective, of course, reliably puts together an awesome festival and has done other events and workshops throughout the year.

BENT writing institute: also awesome.

Lambert House seems effective at providing a particular kind of support--but it's an more traditional non-profit/social-service model, not the kind of youth-led participatory structure that these folks seem focused on building. Which is fine; there isn't one right way, and lord knows there's enough different kinds of queer kids out there that one organization isn't going to fulfill all their needs.

@11
I must challenge your notion of how much "queerness" the University of Washington has to offer young queer people. Yes, Kyle may be a a student in an institution that wields a lot of power, but it doesn't mean it is a safe space to organize and feel supported or that the university is supportive of student organizing and agitating. Many students who have collectively organized social justice campaigns have often felt silenced and ignored by the administration and institution.

You mention that the UW offers a Q Center as a resource space for queer folks. That is very true. However, and I am speaking as a current employee of the Q Center, I challenge us to think about what is liberatory in the creation of a space that Kyle highlights. A space that is created by young people, for young people. A space where adults who collaborate in actions recognize their power and work to become allies. A space that isn't "owned" by an powerful institution like the UW but instead is collectively run by youth. *Those* are the spaces that are needed.

I look forward to seeing this turn into direct action.

there are a lot of sketchy things that happen at Lambert House. I for one won't ever feel comfortable, and I know others who feel the same. It also isn't a youth empowered or youth run space. Its patronizing, and presents the idea that queer youth only struggle with homelessness and sex.
The idea that seattle doesn't need any more queer youth space because its so much easier here to be gay, is bullshit. Youth face oppression, queers face oppression, and to be young and queer is having two strikes against you. Seattle may be a liberal town, but that doesn't mean its easier- its different.
And if it is easier, shouldn't we take advantage of that? Its much less harrowing to start a center like this in a town that welcomes it than one that doesn't. But having a center like this anywhere provides a model and a resource to make it easier to lunch places like this everywhere.
Its not a liquor-less bar. Its a safe space to create, educate, and live. A youth led center that focuses on the wellness of entire person rather then catering to one of two aspects.

this is a mutiny against the ideas people carry that oppress and damage youth. Against a broken system with offers young queers off to repeat a cycle of abusive/unhealthy relationships with partners, alcohol, drugs, friends, authorities, family, and whatnot. Against giving resources out like condoms, telling youth to be safe but not telling them how to use them. Against the unhealthy coping mechanisms that are not only left uncorrected, but encouraged by our communities corporate funders, role models, and of course, the media.
Sometimes its better to start over than try to fix what is. If the foundation is corrupt, you either move or tear the house down to fix it. I'm not about to go around tearing down houses, especially ones that deny anythings wrong.

Personally, I believe there is nothing wrong in wishing for a place for youth to easily get together to socialize with the freedom to do it when they like, not wait for some planned event. This article is very short with very little information on what Kyle is trying to do. Before you put down an idea at least get a good insight into the full picture of whats going on.

Like stated before, the main aspect behind creating this youth space is to have options. Sure there are a few clubs that support the underage group but how many openly and equally support not only the underage group but also create an environment that any type of youth can feel free to attend without having to worry of the kind of crowd that will be there. The idea is to have a place any, not JUST queer, youth can have fun together.

If you want to say this is something Kyle is only trying to do because he is some spoiled college student that had mom and dad take care of him his whole life, get to know someone before trying to criticize.

If you can't tell yet, I am just one more person in support of this and if your not in support of it that's ok but before completely going against the idea first think if its something that would actually affect you. If your just someone saying "queer youth have enough space already," you more than likely don't have many connections to this part of society anyway and it won't affect you whether it happens or not.

Just saying. Go Seattle!

i am a former volunteer (long term) for lambert house...

...i also happen to work with youth in a different setting for my career. i have come across queer youth looking for community and safe spaces to meet other queer youth several times. however, i would NEVER feel comfortable recommending lambert house. aside from questionable infrastructure and leadership, over the years there have been some serious boundary concerns involving youth-youth relationships, as well as the relationships among those in the organization's leadership. aside from those concerns (which some could argue are a matter of my personal judgement), i would not recommend lambert house to youth based on the population that currently uses the space and the house policies currently in place (or, *not* in place, as some may be). lots of drugs/drinking, smoking, making out in the house, etc. i had to quit recently due to moral and ethical decisions i had to make about the safety and health (mental, emotional, and physical) of queer youth in our community.

i encourage you, don't just take my word for it. ask around. do your own research.

while i don't feel that this new "mutiny" is the answer, i do appreciate that it is bringing awareness to a need in our community. lambert house has been around for so long (and has a long history of problems that have been "kept in the closet"), that i think there needs to be some push to create newer, safer spaces. if this is one step toward that, i'm willing to keep an open mind.

I volunteered at Lambert House tonight for the first time. I cooked a bunch of kids a spaghetti dinner and was very impressed by the level of respect and inclusiveness they showed to everyone at the table. It wasn't utopian, but it sure as hell wasn't bitchy. I'm planning to go back and cook dinner again, because I appreciate what the organization stands for.

Is it perfect? Is anything?

What would benefit queer youth in the vastly privileged town would be for everyone with a vested interest in their success to sit down and talk about how to grow the whole pie -- not have people swooping in and slicing it to pieces, especially in an environment where major funders have very few funds left to give.

If there's going to be a youth-led, youth-empowered movement, the first lesson the youth need to learn is the art of compromise; keeping what's dear to you close, and being open and willing to work with what others hold dear, as well.

I salute what Lambert House has built, and hope that the options for queer youth are strengthened there and across the city.

Good luck, kids.

The thing that has always bugged me about Lambert House (and similar projects) is the tendency on the part of mostly well-meaning volunteers to want to either live vicariously through the young people or - worse - to use these kids to get some sort of karmic "do-over"

And I worry that we tend to impose our own gender stereotypes upon these kids. What about the femmy straight boys who get taunted as a fag, the female athlete who likes boys, but is labeled as a dyke, the pretty cheerleader who is secretly a lesbian, or the jock who hides behind homophobia because he is scared of his sexuality? None of these centers seem to address that - unless things have changed in the years since I knew anything about these places.

Being a teenager is confusing enough without adults inflicting their particular set of values and expectations on you. Gay folks, in particular, should understand that.

@everyone that has mentioned lambert house...

This project is not about reforming or fixing Lambert House. They provide a service and QYS is also looking to provide a service. They are going to be asking what youth want (mutiny is another word for forum) and then trying to provide for it. There was no mention of Lambert House in the original interview, so I do not think Kyle was criticizing it. Even if he was, he has every right to do so as someone who is under 23 and in their target demographic.

All he is saying about the middle-aged men is that Neighbors is the only queer oriented place around that allows underage (18+) people in and its only for a few hours once a week. Even with that the only people there during the time 18+ are allowed are the middle-aged men mainly because that is the atmosphere the place brings to its venue.

What he means about not being able to do anything under 21 is that the only queer venues around are bars (21+). As has been stated, there just aren't very many open places to go to on a free night; it would be nice if there was.

@33 its not for a lack of compromise, but more like having higher expectations.
There is a big difference between perfect, and safe. Between perfect and healthy. Lambert house has blurry boundaries, or just a lack of enforcement, that cause for a lot of inappropriate behaviors on part of the staff and the 'kids'. Inappropriate and sometimes endangering of the same people they claim to help.
There is a lot of substance abuse already in the queer community, and from my experience, Lambert House rather than taking a very active stance on combating this, passively says "don't", then the staff, and the youth, do it anyway. I have never been there and not heard about parties, alcohol, plans to get wasted from staff and youth, and lots of smoking.
So, maybe its not perfect, I don't want perfect. I want to feel safe, I want to be in a healthy positive environment, and I don't want to be objectified, preyed on, or shown the only way to cope/have fun is through substance abuse.
And I know I'm not alone.

@35 do you not remember what its like to be young? Young people are disregarded. The mentality that kids should be seen and not heard has rapidly changed for queer youth into, not seen, not heard. It sucks. It sucks not to be recognized, to be powerless without the 'wisdom of age' or simple not included because you weren't born early enough. So you say its a common experience and if you survived it- we should be able to as well. Just because its accepted, or normal, doesn't mean its okay.

We aren't a bunch of whiney overprivileged rich kids asking for this. Hell, if we where all as overprivileged and rich as people are assuming- we'd already have a fucking center.
Their are so many different types of people who recognize this need. Different types of people who are affected by these needs. Or do you really think every queer person is rich and overprivileged if they have a desire for change?

By the way ANYONE who thinks Ken is a amazing only needs to read this article :).

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/a-hou…

google "ken shulman lambert" and read the Stranger article. Mmmmm ethical concerns.

http://tinyurl.com/yackgcr

Good Lord, have any of you BEEN to Lambert House? as a youth? Been to a Gay Skate? Been in Seattle as a queer youth?
It's their movement, meant only to benefit (and effect) them. Why do you care? Jealous you couldn't have that in your youth?

@35 - spoiled? i think if you actually met this young man you might have a different idea. he has not led a spoiled life.

@21- what about a youth space? does that threaten you? believe it or not, most gay youth aren't just into hook ups, bitching about homelessness and why their lives suck, or being athletic with older men. some just need a safe space outside their schools and homes to connect with youth. period. don't like it? don't go.

@44 - college student = spoiled trust-fund bitch. DUHHHH.

To all of you going on about spoiled college students, let me say this: Kyle does NOT have a rich mommy and daddy paying for everything. In fact, his parents kicked him out of the house when he told them he was gay. I am sick of people going on about trust funds and spoiled students. I am a UW student, and NO ONE I know has a trust fund. Mommy and daddy can't even afford my tuition, I have to pay it myself.

You assume that just because students are in college that they are spoiled and have rich parents. I know of college students who are actually HOMELESS who get by on grants and scholarships. Sure, there are those students who do have rich parents that pay for everything. I don't like them either. But you CANNOT put a blanket statement like that over all college students.

In agreeing with some of these other comments, Lambert House is not really a great place to be. Just because a resource is there doesn't mean it's a good one. While I may not agree with Kyle's tactics, I agree that Neighbours shouldn't be the only place I can go to a club. By the way, did you know that if you're under 21 on Fri or Sat, NEIGHBOURS WON'T EVEN LET YOU IN THE DOOR UNTIL 2AM??

I think the reason there has been so much backlash in the comments is because the article didn't provide enough information about what this kid is trying to do. Be a little better about that next time, "Unpaid Intern" person.

In fighting. I am a tad bit floored by the some of the nay-saying going on here, and how uninformed it comes across as, even on the most basic of levels. You don't even have to be a master of critical reading to get at what QYS and Kyle is advocating for. Read the article. Again.

Kyle is not advocating for 18-21. He stated ANYONE under 21 (and inferring, under 18 even) who is Queer. That's a pretty easy to understand statement. The only reason "bar-like" space came into this discussion, is because Neighbors is one of the only "all ages" venues.

It's clear to me that QYS is advocating for a "space" in which Queer youth can feel safe, empowered and expressive. This is not about finding a place to drink, make-out etc...it's about organizing, and opening up avenues for youth to help organize, a place for youth to have what any hetero-normative youth or adult has. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

As for the in-fighting:
11-I am sure it was/is hard to grow up as a Queer youth in Texas, and there is nothing wrong with saying so. I will, however, say that it would probably have been nice to have someone in the position to voice their opinion on the matter in that context--someone willing to speak out for you and possibly the youth who are there now. I would very much like it if you could tell me the names of those advocating for the youth in Texas, both past and present. I am listening.

Likewise, I have no doubt that this movement will find the platforms, creative minds, and supporters it needs. Why? Because the movement is far more than a blog post, or a comment on the SLOG. It's people giving more than 2 seconds and two cents. You have done your part by taking the minute to say nay. Now wait for QYS to put forth the hours and days it takes to make this happen.

The lack of support here is pretty disgusting. Charming, the way so many of you baselessly judge a kid who has actually spoken out about something he believes in. Maybe his statement of purpose wasn't the most eloquent, but to shut him down and tell him he's whining while also jumping to completely unfounded conclusions about his financial means or difficulty growing up (??!?!!), is all nauseatingly ignorant and makes you look like big jaded turds with no life.

I'm only a few months older than this Kyle guy myself. Wow, can't wait to "grow up" and be like all these great adult-babies on Slog!

I am a two-year patron of Lambert House and I have to say that it saved my life. I can only share my experience, and the experience of my peers, but a great deal of the bile presented here on Lambert House, especially that relating to the lack of safety or "boundaries" is hogwash. I have ALWAYS felt safe there, safer than any other place I have in my life. Yes, there are youth who engage in substance-use. NO it is not tolerated on the grounds. Yes there have been youth who have engaged in intimate acts on the premises, but it is very rare. And the majority of all of these "boundary" issues were taken away from what I've heard, approximately six years ago, due to none other than Ken Shulman's leadership. I can only say that someone questioning his professionalism and work in Lambert House must not have MET Ken or seen him in action. The stranger article being used to slander Ken is rubbish, and the counter-article in the Seattle Gay News,
http://www.sgn.org/sgnnews34_15/page3.cf…
(written by Lambert House Board members) will show it.

@32 and 34
This is a gross mis-representation of Lambert House (from this youth's perspective) I understand that there have been issues with the matters presented regarding youth behavior, but that comes with the territory. Youth centers can attract troubled youth, but Lambert House is equipped to deal with those situations, and they do, always keeping in mind the need for support of youth first.

As for the volunteers, there are great boundaries in place, while still allowing youth to voice their feelings, their lives, their day-to-day, without censorship. I have always felt supported, not that I was being lived through in the least, by the staff and volunteers.

Yes we deserve more options, but not if this development will cannibalize funding for another vital organization that SAVES LIVES. It is not perfect. few non-profits are, especially those that are severely UNDER-FUNDED. And it could not be less youth-empowered. Youth intern to plan events, they are given a space to be heard in support-groups, they are routinely offered tickets to art and social events. (I have benefited from these resources.)

And as for Kyle Rapinan, while we're throwing about accusations, I have been a part of a "Youth ACTIVIST LEADERSHIP Seminar" with Kyle, founded by KEN SHULMAN (how hierarchal and disempowering of him). This new project has surprised me. But based on comments he has made in UW forums and whispers that have been passed about, I have no doubt that this "mutiny" is targeted at Ken and Lambert, in an attempt to exercise his strange resentment or fear from some unknown cause.

With the economy the way it is, and human resources funding slashed the way it is, this wanna-be movement is unproductive and unrealistic. Who do they expect to fund these alternative options? There have been many wonderful suggestions made as to what youth can do. It's not about the stinkin' bars, it's about getting creative! The only people who aren't finding community are not trying hard enough, or just haven't had the outreach that they need, which is a reflection of society at large.

It is true that Lambert House isn't for everyone, but it is a great DEVELOPING resource that is integral to this conversation. Even without questionable motives as a "leader" Kyle still needs to take into consideration the in-fighting he's prompting, the lack of feasibility in what he's proposing, as well as the big, bright distraction he's making from the fact that Lambert House is sinking (yet worthy to save), and hundreds of youth will suffer for it.