This is wishful thinking. Gay-bashing atheists exist; most bigots don't have well-thought out consistent philosophies. Religion is a frequent justification for the fear and ignorance that really underlie the behavior, but it's neither necessary or sufficient.

Case in point: China.

Try checking out the top story on the Salt Lake Tribune site:

LDS leader says same-sex attraction not inborn:
Apostle Boyd K. Packer declares the church will ‘stay on course’ in opposing gay marriage.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/504042…

It's conference weekend - so glad I'm not in Utah right now!

This sounds exactly like the kind of social-justice theology (or 'liberation theology') that Glenn Beck is constantly warning his listeners about.

If we were seeing reports of Christian teenagers in China, for example, or in the former Soviet Union, who were committing suicide in response to anti-Christian messages from the government and media, and from harassment and bullying from their peers for following an unpopular religion... well, how would that look to us? Would there be any open debate at all as to whom we should blame?

Of course not. If a target of religious harassment kills himself, American Christians know without giving it a second's thought that the blame lies squarely with those who discriminate, harass, and teach hate.

American Christians also have no trouble blaming a sick society and a dysfunctional religion when Muslim rape victims are shamed by their families and their peers into killing themselves. When the beam is in the eye of a Muslim bully, the Christian Right's sense of moral proportion works just fine. Even though suicide itself is considered a sin, the Right nonetheless has the common sense to call out the oppressors when it's obvious who drove the victim to suicide.

In those cases we don't hear the Christian Right mumbling that it was minority Christians or rape victims who were asking for it or who brought the harassment on themselves. It's really only in the special case of gay suicide victims where it becomes all cloudy and debatable whom to blame.

Japanese indigenous religions have nothing much to say about homosexuality. Shinto has no dogma or scriptures, and more or less ignores homosexuality, and legend positively attributes the origin of homosexuality to 9th century Japanese Buddhist. Only a tiny minority of Japanese people are Christian. Japan is one of the least religious countries on Earth, but there's anti-gay bullying and violence there--not as widespread as in America by any means, but it still exists.

@3 i guess you didn't get the memo.

Through a referendum sponsored by the Stranger's very own watch-dog "Legality for pot: Believe and obey me bitches" - the Mormon church, when being discussed within the jurisdiction of Strait outta Seattle blogspeak, will now be referred to as LSD. Any deviance will be met with down the line by not necessarily a policeman (police officer, ty) nor the police force, but a nagging reporter who knows the downlow bout chillin. peace out fucknuts.

RTWT WTF R2D2

@1,8:

I've always held that homophobia is more of a cultural phenomenon, a remnant of feudal social structures that placed a premium on "legitimate" children. However, you cannot reasonably deny that (1) the Church (writ large) has internalized a lot of this hatred, and (2) we are helping to spread it. When we, as Christians, do not actively work to heal our church, we are responsible for the results.

@Dan:

Thanks for the TCU love. It's an honor to go to class with Cody, and a great privilege to learn from Dr. Sprinkle. I promise not to whine about any of your blogs for at least another week :)

Of course the church has a responsibility to purge its own internal homophobia. But this statement:

"Anti-gay bullying is a theological issue because it has a theological base. I find it difficult to believe that even those among us with a vibrant imagination can muster the creative energy to picture a reality in which anti-gay violence and bullying exist without the anti-gay religious messages that support them."

Is frankly ignorant.

We don't have to imagine a reality where anti-gay violence can exist without religious backing; we live in that reality. Certainly a great deal of religious violence and bullying in the United States either stems from religious upbringing or carries a fig leaf of religious justification--but not all violence and bullying, and AMERICA is not REALITY.

If Professor Sprinkles still equates Christian culture with American culture and American culture with reality, then he still has a long way to go before he's in a position to reform anything.

So Dan has decided that it's ALL religion's fault. ...Despite @8 point about Japan & the point that plenty of gay-bashing atheists exist out there.

Dan's apparently starting to lose it after watching these videos on a loop, non-stop. It's the old US vs. THEM bullshit dichotomy a la George Bush: "You're with us or against us!" Religion = bad = gay suicides. Atheism = good = peaceful self-accepting gay kids.

... Do you seriously have such a narrow and simplistic worldview? Are you dumb or are you just looking for something big and easy to put all your misery on? Religion! That'll work! Just like Bush: The Terrorists!

Seriously, this is like total ignorant RED-STATE thinking. I mean, you're aware that plenty of gays seek comfort thru the church, right? Or, no, sorry - that's too much thinking for you. Just get the torches, everybody, and burn down the churches!

Wow, is all I have to say.

Have fun with your angry mob. I'm sure it will make LOTS of progress in the fight for equality and acceptance.

Sorry, made an error; this:

"Certainly a great deal of religious violence and bullying in the United States either stems from religious upbringing or carries a fig leaf of religious justification--but not all violence and bullying, and AMERICA is not REALITY. "

should be

"Certainly a great deal of homophobic violence and bullying in the United States either stems from religious upbringing or carries a fig leaf of religious justification--but not all such violence and bullying, and AMERICA is not REALITY. "

Thank you for this Dan.

Reading this led me to other articles that I read and posted as links on my Facebook page along with this one.

#12 & #14, don't get me wrong. While homophobia absolutely can and does exist without religion, the vast majority of the world's anti-gay feelings, teachings, and actions stem from religion, and without religion there would be a lot less homophobia generally and a lot less justification for anti-gay discrimination.

@15 the emphasis on AMeRicA RealitY makes perfect nonsense, thank you, and thank you this Dan, that Dan, Everywhere a Dan.
Based on my demo graphical and nuture/ nature analysis, and sun-sign calibrations, there is a molesting, queer hating, pervert - waiting to blossom inside Dan Marino, Slog testimonial dissertations to go on, without question, wouldn't HEAR of it.

Try the Nazis.....

The Nazis were explicitly Christian, and the Catholic church was shamefully compliant in Germany at the time. Whether or not Hitler himself was a believer is controversial, but what's clear is that he was more than happy to use the Christianity of his followers to lead them to persecution of Jews (gee, who did maintain that Jews were evil for all those centuries?) and homosexuals, amongst others.

I would generally agree that homophobia can exists without religion. China, mentioned before, is a good example. However China is subjected to a different set of totalitarian beliefs that allow for no questioning. Religion is really good at that type of thing, but there are other forms of it. Even accepting that, to ignore the link between religion and homophobia is utterly absurd. Point me to a secular free society in which homophobia is the norm. Now point me to the first dozen deeply religious societies where it is.

Straight Gucci Salesman Sues for Gay Harassment

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/…

A former salesman at Gucci’s flagship store in New York City has filed a $5-million lawsuit, charging that he was discriminated against because he is straight.

According to the New York Daily News, the lawsuit filed in Manhattan federal court Thursday alleges that Adolfo Mendez was fired after he blew the whistle on sexual harassment from two managers at Gucci’s Fifth Avenue store. One of them insisted that Mendez, who is married to a woman, was gay.

Gay dude harassing! I'm straight!?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?…

and well I did not know that this gay guy that likes me was there, so I laid down on the couch and well next thing I know I'm out of it and passed out.

I wake up to the morning and this dude was cuddled right next to me!! I was like WTF!! he had my arms around him!!

@17. You're absolutely right. I was actually agreeing with you. I was saying that while we can quibble about the cause, the effect is undeniable: lots of Christian churches are promoting deadly hatred and it is our responsibility (speaking as a Christian here) to put a stop to it.

@Anonymous Troll (2,6,7,9,10,20) -- you're losing your touch. I hate to advise addicts to relapse, but you were so much more fun on the meth.

@17 "The vast majority of the world's anti-gay feelings, teachings, and actions stem from religion."

One-third of the world's population is Chinese, and the anti-gay sentiment there is widespread--outside of the incredibly tiny urban populations it's damn near universal, and even there there's certainly no Chinese Ellen Degeneres--and that intolerance is totally unrelated to religion. One-third of the world's population.

I would have no beef with this post/thread if people would stop saying "the world" or "reality" when they mean "The West."

@21: Moar irrelevant news, I see. But sexual orientation IS relevant in the fashion industry, considering how much better fashion sense homosexuals have. It's like not hiring someone as a personal trainer because he has no arms.
@22: YDI for getting shitfaced. Like straight guys don't do far worse to drunk-ass girls at parties.

@26: Blacks are not usually subjected to racism from their own parents. Gays who grow up in closed-minded families often see the people they most rely on turn against them. Even gay kids whose parents and friends would support them often are without resources, as coming out is usually an awkward and painful process. Black people facing persecution can at least find solidarity with other black people, but young homosexuals often feel entirely alone.
Notice that it's YOUNG gay people killing themselves, young gay people who haven't seen enough of the world to know that they are not alone.
"persecution usually strengthens the persecuted..." If that is the case, we Jews would rule the entire universe from the hell inflicted on our people by the Nazis. What fucked-up school of psychology do you subscribe to?

"I find it difficult to believe that even those among us with a vibrant imagination can muster the creative energy to picture a reality in which anti-gay violence and bullying exist without the anti-gay religious messages that support them."

Yeah, that's...incredibly stupid.

@27: Careful, @26 is probably the kind of person who believes Jews -do- rule the universe

@25 thank you, we can brain-bender banish bible bigots to the tip of Aleutia, Butt the emigration from parasite-like-thingies is already causing havoc to
pristine
mapplethorpe-like
lines of sand

incredibly stoopid attempt at poetry, carry on

Religion is like alcohol- it doesn't create personality so much as reinforce it. If you're an asshole by nature, religion and alcohol are both likely to make you a bigger asshole.

#25: "the West" was "the World" for rather a long time, and Western religions were, and still are, particularly eager to export themselves and gain converts among foreign populations. There are something like 100 million Christians in China, for instance.

It could be argued that indigenous Chinese religions are homophobic: Confucianism (if you consider it a religion; some do) teaches that homosexuality is wrong, for instance, and Taoism teaches that homosexuality is (variously) physically dangerous or cannot lead to fulfillment.

But religiously-based homophobia was imported into China, as to many countries (such as Japan) which had traditions of socially sanctioned homosexuality, entwined with Western science, philosophy and literature and religion, So even in places where Western religion has never been a major social force and where indigenous religions have (had) neutral or even positive stances towards homosexuality, religion has influenced how society views gay people. Japan, for instance, only enacted anti-gay laws for the first time when it wanted to be seen as "civilized" by the imperial, largely Christian West, although its own tradition had been to see homosexual behaviour as positive.

The Judeo-Christian tradition had a huge impact globally during the colonial era, so really, it's simplistic to claim that intolerance is totally unrelated to religion.

For fuck's sake, turn off unregistered comments for this subject. This is embarrassing to read for everyone over the age of 12.

@27 Good point, Venomlash. Other persecuted groups have found strength within their communities, and as you mention, support from their families. Given that an entire family doesn't tend to be gay, or an entire community, it underscores the incredible feeling of isolation a lot of these kids must have. Good for you for pointing it out.

Man, everybody sure does love feeding the trolls around here. I'm kind of glad, though, because 39 is such a soap-bubble perfect little idiocy that I can't believe they're not doing it on purpose.

@32: The oldest gay suicide or attempted suicide mentioned by Dan lately was 18. I know you're full of shit up to your foramen magnum, but I don't even know what you're talking about. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
@34: No, that's not what I'm saying. Read it again and get back to me.
@39: The PARENTS of gay people are often dicks to them, not gay parents. Reading comprehension, motherfucker; do you have it?

@40, cool imagery. My son used to play with his push button RTWT to blow soap-bubbles onto my R2D2 light saber. I do miss the days virtual reality, here i only imagined myself giving the tyke tender blow jobs. Cum bubbles are cute.

@42: Are you a little high?

43Ask Dominic, he knows all the expert questions.

This comment thread is proof of the cruelty that humans are capable of.

There is one and only one lesson to take away from both the suicides and the It Gets Better project. Kindness. And being kind and teaching kindness to your children are synonymous with one another.

I've given that gift to my son and it shows in his every word and action. And while he is perfectly capable of being a complete smart ass, his kindness permeates his personality.

The video in this post is outstanding. That man right there is a true Christian and gives me a little hope for a religion that I currently loath. Thanks for that... I needed it.

Good on the man for posting this, but "assitant professor of practical theology"... wow, leave it to religious institutions to offer the epitome of an oxymoronic degree. Can I get a degree in practical dragonslaying, or pracical leprechaun hunting at this place, too?

Love the video from Prof. Sprinkle - The fact that he teaches at a divinity school as a gay man in a committed relationship bodes well for the future of Christianity. My church is open and affirming - he would be a great pastor for us.

Unlike @47, I don't find "practical theology" an oxymoron and think more professions based on theory and knowledge should offer clinical training and practical classes. You can read about God all you want but that doesn't help you interact with your congregation. Many law schools, for example, crank out pristine meat-vessels of raw knowledge that have no idea how to draft a pleading or interview a client or take a deposition. A bit more practical training, all around, is a very good thing....

Professor Sprinkle has the best storytelling voice ever.

"Saghir and Robins (1978) examined reasons for suicide attempts among homosexuals and found that if the reasons for the attempt were connected with homosexuality, about 2/3 were due to breakups of relationships --not outside pressures from society.
Similarly, Bell and Weinberg (1981) also found the major reason for suicide attempts was the breakup of relationships. Since homosexuals have greater numbers of partners and breakups, compared with heterosexuals, and since longterm gay male relationships are rarely monagamous, it is hardly surprising if suicide attempts are proportionally greater. The median number of partners for homosexuals is four times higher than for heterosexuals (Whitehead and Whitehead 1999, calculated from Laumann et al 1994).
A good general rule of thumb is that suicide attempts are about three times higher for homosexuals. Could there be a connection between those two percentages?"

"One important and carefully conducted study found suicide attempts among homosexuals were six times greater than the average (Remafedi et al. 1998).
Then, more recently, in the Archives of General Psychiatry-- an established and well-respected journal--three papers appeared with extensive accompanying commentary (Fergusson et al. 1999, Herrell et al. 1999, Sandfort et al. 2001, and e.g. Bailey 1999). J. Michael Bailey included a commentary on the above research; Bailey, it should be noted, conducted many of the muchpublicized "gay twin studies" which were used by gay advocates as support for the "born that way" theory. Neil Whitehead, Ph.D.
Bailey said, "These studies contain arguably the best published data on the association between homosexuality and psychopathology, and both converge on the same unhappy conclusion: homosexual people are at substantially higher risk for some forms of emotional problems, including suicidality, major depression, and anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, and nicotine dependence...The strength of the new studies is their degree of control."
One study (Fergusson et al. 1999) followed a large New Zealand group from birth to their early twenties. The "birth cohort" method of subject selection is especially reliable and free from most of the biases which bedevil surveys. This study showed a significantly higher occurrence of depression, anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, substance abuse and thoughts about suicide, amongst those who were homosexually active.
Another paper was a Netherlands study (Sandfort et al. 2001) which again showed a higher level of mental-health problems among homosexuals
Does pressure from society lead to mental health problems? Less than one might imagine. The authors of the study done in The Netherlands were surprised to find so much mental illness in homosexual people in a country where tolerance of homosexuality is greater than in almost all other countries.
Another good comparison country is New Zealand, which is much more tolerant of homosexuality than is the United States. Legislation giving the movement special legal rights is powerful, consistently enforced throughout the country, and virtually never challenged. Despite this broad level of social tolerance, suicide attempts were common in a New Zealand study and occurred at about the same rate as in the U.S.

In his cross-cultural comparison of mental health in the Netherlands, Denmark and the U.S., Ross (1988) could find no significant differences between countries - i.e. the greater social hostility in the United States did not result in a higher level of psychiatric problems.

"Does pressure from society lead to mental health problems? Less than one might imagine. The authors of the study done in The Netherlands were surprised to find so much mental illness in homosexual people in a country where tolerance of homosexuality is greater than in almost all other countries.
Another good comparison country is New Zealand, which is much more tolerant of homosexuality than is the United States. Legislation giving the movement special legal rights is powerful, consistently enforced throughout the country, and virtually never challenged. Despite this broad level of social tolerance, suicide attempts were common in a New Zealand study and occurred at about the same rate as in the U.S.

In his cross-cultural comparison of mental health in the Netherlands, Denmark and the U.S., Ross (1988) could find no significant differences between countries - i.e. the greater social hostility in the United States did not result in a higher level of psychiatric problems.

"The promiscuous person--either heterosexual or homosexual --may in fact be more likely to be antisocial. It is worth noting here the comment of Rotello (1997), who is himself openly gay: "...the outlaw aspect of gay sexual culture, its transgressiveness, is seen by many men as one of its greatest attributes."
Ellis et al. (1995) examined patients at an clinic which focused on genital and urological problems such as STD's; he found 38% of the homosexual men seeking such services had antisocial personality disorder, as well as 28% of heterosexual men. Both levels were enormously higher than the 2% rate of antisocial personality disorder for the general population (which in turn, compares to the 50% rate for prison inmates) (Matthews 1997).

Also, it was previously noted that 43% of a bulimic sample of men were homosexual or bisexual (Carlat et al. 1997), a rate about 15 times higher than the rate in the population in general--meaning homosexual men are probably disproportionately liable to this mental condition. This may be due to the very strong preoccupation with appearance and physique frequently found among male homosexuals."

"A strong case can be made that the male homosexual lifestyle itself, in its most extreme form, is mentally disturbed. Remember that Rotello, a gay advocate, notes that "the outlaw aspect of gay sexual culture, its transgressiveness, is seen by many men as one of its greatest attributes." Same-sex eroticism becomes for many, therefore, the central value of existence, and nothing else--not even life and health itself--is allowed to interfere with pursuit of this lifestyle. Homosexual promiscuity fuels the AIDS crisis in the West, but even that tragedy it is not allowed to interfere with sexual freedom.
And, according to Rotello, the idea of taking responsibility to avoid infecting others with the HIV virus is completely foreign to many groups trying to counter AIDS. The idea of protecting oneself is promoted, but protecting others is not mentioned in most official condom promotions (France in the '80s was an interesting exception). Bluntly, then, core gay behavior is both potentially fatal to others, and often suicidal.

Surely it should be considered "mentally disturbed" to risk losing one's life for sexual liberation. This is surely among the most extreme risks practiced by any significant fraction of society. I have not found a higher risk of death accepted by any similar-sized population."

According to the CDC 20% of homosexual men have AIDS.....

References

Anon. (1995): Lesbians use more mental health care. The Dominion (NZ) Nov 1, 14.

Bailey, J.M. (1999): Commentary: Homosexuality and mental illness. Arch. Gen. Psychiatry. 56, 876-880.

Bell, A.P.; Weinberg, M.S. (1978): Homosexualities. A Study Of Diversity Among Men And Women. Simon and Schuster, New York.

Carlat, D.J.; Camargo, C.A.; Herzog, D.B. (1997): Eating disorders in males: a report on 135 patients. Am. J. Psychiatry 154, 1127-1132.

Ellis, D; Collis, I; King, M (1995): Personality disorder and sexual risk taking among homosexually active and heterosexually active men attending a genito-urinary medicine clinic. J. Psychosom. Res. 39, 901-910.

Fergusson, D.M.; Horwood, L.J.; Beautrais, A.L. (1999): Is sexual orientation related to mental health problems and suicidality in young people? Arch. Gen. Psychiat. 56, 876- 880.

Gonsiorek, J.C. (1982): Results of psychological testing on homosexual populations. In: Homosexuality. Social, Psychological and Biological Issues. (Eds: Paul, W.; Weinrich, J.D.; Gonsiorek, J.C.; Hotvedt, M.E.) Sage, Beverly Hills, California, 71-80.

Gonsiorek, J.C. (1991): The empirical basis for the demise of the illness model of homosexuality. In: Homosexuality: Research Implications for Public Policy. (Eds: Gonsiorek,J.; Weinrich, J.D.) Sage, 115-136.

Herrell, R.; Goldberg, J.; True,W.R.; Ramakrishnan, V.; Lyons, M.; Eisen,S.; Tsuang, M.T. (1999): Sexual orientation and suicidality: a co-twin control study in adult men. Arch. Gen. Psychiatry 56, 867-874.

Kalichman, S.C.; Dwyer, M.; Henderson, M.C.; Hoffman, L. (1992): Psychological and sexual functioning among outpatient sexual offenders against children: A Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) cluster analytic study. J. Psychopath. Behav. Assess. 14, 259-276.

King, M.; Bartlett, A. (1999): British psychiatry and homosexuality. Brit. J. Psychiatry. 175, 106-113.

Laumann, E.O.; Gagnon, J.H.; Michael, R.T.; Michaels, S. (1994). The Social Organization of Sexuality. University of Chicago Press, Chicago.

Matthews, R. (1997): Game theory backs crackdown on petty crime. New Scientist 156(2078), 18.

Pincu, L. (1989): Sexual compulsivity in gay men: controversy and treatment. J. Couns. Dev. 68(1), 63-66.

Remafedi, G.; French, S.; Story, M.; Resnick, M.D.; Blum, R. (1998): The relationship between suicide risk and sexual orientation: Results of a population-based study. Am. J. Publ. Health 88, 57-60.

Riess, B. (1980): Psychological tests in homosexuality. In: Homosexual Behavior: A Modern Appraisal. (Ed: Macmor,J.) Basic Books, New York, 298-311.

Ross, M.W. (1988): Homosexuality and mental health: a cross-cultural review. J. Homosex. 15(1/2), 131-152.

Rotello, G. (1997): Sexual Ecology. AIDS and the Destiny of Gay Men. Dutton, Harmondsworth, Middlesex, UK.

Saghir, M.T.; Robins, E. (1973): Male and Female Homosexuality, A Comprehensive Investigation. Williams and Wilkins, Baltimore Maryland. 335 pages.

Sandfort, T.G.M.; de Graaf, R.; Bijl, R.V.; Schnabel (2001): Same-sex sexual behavior and psychiatric disorders. Arch. Gen. Psychiatry. 58, 85-91.

Saphira, M.; Glover, M. (2000): New Zealand lesbian health survey. J. Gay Lesb. Med. Assn. 4, 49-56.

Seligman, M.E.P. (1975): Helplessness - On Depression, Development And Death. Freeman, London.

Socarides, C.W. (1995): Homosexuality: A Freedom Too Far. Adam Margrave Books, Phoenix, Arizona.

Valleroy, L. A.; Secura, G.; Mackellor, D.; Behel,S. (2001): High HIV and risk behavior prevalence among 23- to 29- year-old men who have sex with men in 6 U.S. Cities. Poster 211 at 8th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic

Infections, Chicago, Feb. 2001. http://64.58.70.224/2001/posters/211.pdf.

Welch, S.; Collings,S.C.D.; Howden-Chapman,P. (2000): Lesbians in New Zealand: Their mental health and satisfaction with mental health services. Aust. N.Z.J. Psychiatry 34, 256-263.

Whitehead, N.E.; Whitehead, B.K. (1999): My Genes Made Me Do It! Huntington House, Lafayette, Louisiana.

Lynx @ 19:

The Nazis were explicitly Christian...Whether or not Hitler himself was a believer is controversial, but what's clear is that he was more than happy to use the Christianity of his followers to lead them to persecution of Jews

I'm trying not to totally hijack this thread with Godwin's Law, but really..."explicity Christian"? What is the basis for that? The Nazis defined pretty much everything in racial terms and anything not fitting within that "Aryan" worldview was to be eliminated. Himmler (and several other leaders) were outright hostile to Christianity.

Back on the subject, I'm glad to see Dan post this response. The church has to recognize its complicity in teaching young people what is acceptable. That said, we are (especially in Northwest) living in a more secular society than decades past, so there are other factors at play here.

from GLSEN, the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network

"School Climate Over Time: 1999-2009

"There was a steady decline in the frequency of hearing homophobic remarks from 1999 to 2009.
"There were significant decreases in frequencies of verbal harassment, physical harassment and physical assault from 2007 to 2009."

http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/ne…

Also from from GLSEN, the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network

Suicide Attempts Twice as Likely for LGBT Students

You can access this article directly by going to this URL: www.glsen.org

A new study published in this month's American Journal of Public Health shows teenagers with same-sex attractions, or those in gay and lesbian relationships, are twice as likely as their heterosexual counterparts to attempt suicide.

The following is an excerpt from an article printed in the San Francisco Chronicle. Any opinions either stated or suggested are not necessarily those of GLSEN or its members.

Christopher Heredia
Chronicle Staff Writer

At 17, Tracy Peerson was a devout Christian struggling to come to terms with her attraction to other girls.

She isolated herself from her classmates at Antioch High School and didn't talk with her family about her feelings. She became depressed and so despondent that she attempted suicide.

Peerson was hardly alone when she tried to take her own life. A new study published in this month's American Journal of Public Health shows teenagers with same-sex attractions, or those in gay and lesbian relationships, are twice as likely as their heterosexual counterparts to attempt suicide.

The gay teen suicide incidence rate in the newly published study is lower than previous research (an oft-cited figure has been that 30 percent of teens who attempt suicide are gay or lesbian), but it is the first study to look at national data.

The report is based upon research gathered from the continuing National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health. The questions about sexual orientation and suicide, found that of the 458 youth who reported suicide attempts, 15 percent had a same-sex attraction -- twice the rate for the same proportion of heterosexual teens. Approximately 12,000 adolescent girls and boys participated.

@59
@52

Homosexual teens are twice as likely to attempt suicide

Adult homosexuals are 6 times as likely.

Is this what Dan means when he says It Gets Better?

@51

Dan highlights the suicide of Cody Barker in his campaign against CHRISTIAN BIGOTS.

But the truth proves inconvenient...

"I knew Cody since 6th grade. He was a wonderful, sensitive guy. No one knew, not even his best friend. He did leave messages; his partner recently broke up with him."

Dan and the HomoLiberal Media cover up the fact that most gay teen suicides are relationship related.

@51-56, 58-61 You've obviously spent a lot of time compiling your facts & figures. May I ask what, exactly is your point? The fact is, this is a human condition problem that cannot be solved or explained with facts & figures. It boils down to human beings showing one another compassion. Something you are clearly not prepared to do. You're just having to hear about a segment of society that up until now you've been able to at best ignore and at worst persecute. People aren't afraid of the likes of you anymore.

And, I'm well aware that I say above that we should show each other compassion and I'm not exactly doing that with you. Liberals have caused themselves undue harm by not forcefully standing up for ourselves. Now that we're stepping up to the plate and defending ourselves the people on the right don't like it. Like all bullies they can dish it out but they can't take it.

As for siting GLSEN you neglected to mention this:
New York – GLSEN, or the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, today announced the results of a new survey conducted on its behalf by Harris Interactive® titled “From Teasing to Torment: School Climate in America, A Survey of Students and Teachers.” The national survey of over 3,400 students aged 13-18 and over 1,000 secondary school teachers, explores students’ and teachers’ experiences with bullying and harassment, and their attitudes about this serious problem in America’s schools.

“This study clearly illustrates the prevalence of bullying and harassment in America’s schools and that students who experience harassment are more likely to miss classes which can impact a student’s ability to learn,” said Kevin Jennings, Founder and Executive Director of GLSEN.

“It also shows how having anti-harassment policies in schools – particularly those policies that include sexual orientation or gender identity/expression – can be associated with students feeling safer at school.”

The online survey, conducted between January 13 and January 31, 2005, reveals that bullying is common in America’s schools, and that some students are frequent targets for verbal and physical harassment:

Two-thirds (65%) of teens report that they have been verbally or physically harassed or assaulted during the past year because of their perceived or actual appearance, gender, sexual orientation, gender expression, race/ethnicity, disability or religion.
The reason most commonly cited for being harassed frequently is a student’s appearance, as four in ten (39%) teens report that students are frequently harassed for the way they look or their body size.
The next most common reason for frequent harassment is sexual orientation. One-third (33%) of teens report that students are frequently harassed because they are or are perceived to be lesbian, gay or bisexual.

source: http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/li…

Attention SLOGgers! The following Period Hivemind posts are plagiarized (copied verbatim) from NARTH's webpage:
#s 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56
In fact, they were all plagiarized from THE SAME ARTICLE. I knew that the Period Hive Drones are only mindless automata carrying out the butthurt will of the queen, but even the Period Hivemind itself has no capacity for independent thought!

@62: You said: "lots of the suicides Dan features are NOT gay kids."
I challenge you to find one suicide that Dan has posted about in recent times where the poor bastard is NOT a homosexual (or possible homosexual) adolescent or young adult.
@63: Read it again, you leotard.

@46

Your son is lucky to have a parent with your values. Keep that hope alive :)

@47

Dr. Sprinkle is actually an associate (i.e. tenured) professor. And the academic study of practical theology is most definitely not an oxymoron. It's what separates Dr. Sprinkle and his students (such as myself) from the Jerry Falwells of the world.

@50

He is an amazing story teller (and the most compelling preacher I've ever heard). I almost cried while taping him.

48:

You don't find "practical theology" an oxymoron and you think more professions based on theory and knowledge should offer clinical training and practical classes? And how, exactly, is theology based on knowledge?

57:

Yes, the Nazis were explicitly Christian. Hitler was a confessed Christian who believed in Jesus, thought he was doing the work of god as written in the Bible, often wrote and spoke of his Christianity, and frequently used Biblical imagery. Among countless examples:

* In the first chapter of Mein Kamp Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord"

* Later he writes "The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity"

* In a speech in Munich in the 1920s loaded with Biblical imagery he said "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter . . . In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders . . . As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice . . . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people . . . When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited"

* The oath every Nazi officer had to take began "I swear in the name of almighty god my loyalty to the fuhrer"

* Every Nazi wore a belt buckle emblazoned with the words "gott mit uns," or "god on our side"

* The first treaty the Nazis made was with the Vatican

* The Catholic church celebrated the birthday of Hitler every year until the Nazis were defeated -- a tradition instituted by the Pope

* Higher ups in the Nazi Party also spoke of doing god's work. Walter Buch, Head of the Nazi Party court, compared the work of the Reich to the teachings of Jesus, and wrote "the party stands for a positive Christianity"

* Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Propaganda Minister, wrote about frequently reading the Bible and talking with Christ

* There are photos of Hitler praying and meeting with Bishops and other church higher-ups, and of Nazi party members and soldiers attending services en masse

* Various Nazi military honours were based on the Christian cross

* Hitler painted Christian churches, deities, crosses and other imagery

* Nazi coins were imprinted with Christian imagery like churches

I mean, really. The list is endless. To deny the Nazis were Christian is just silly.

@Anonymous Troll (72). You're starting to make me think that Calvin was right.

Dingo @ 71: Again, I'm not trying to get off topic, but you have to look at Nazi actions before and after 1933, and especially their failure to totally co-opt the church after 1934. Yes, many (especially Protestant) leaders were quick to see the Nazis as the answer to "godless" Marxism, but many within the Nazi movement wanted to replace *any* ideology that may present any alternative to National Socialism. Himmler ("Christianity is the greatest of plagues"), Heydrich, Darre, Ley, Rosenberg, to name a few leaders, were explicitly anti-Christian. Goebbels, while raised Catholic, produced truckloads of anti-Catholic propaganda (including charges of pedophilia - thus why some near the Pope today wanted to try to draw parallels to pedophilia cases around the world). Hess and Bormann outlawed any priest or pastor membership in the Nazi Party after 1939. Attendance in church schools plummeted in the early years of the regime - 84% to 5% in Munich from 1934-1937, then all denominational schools in Germany were closed by 1939.

You're using examples of where the regime co-opted symbols of Christianity for appearances' sake - but the regime very explicitly did not go against the church in a widespread way as church life was so ingrained into the community, especially in rural areas. The Nazis, however, were supplanting the church with the young, for example, by teaching Hitler Youth songs like this one in 1934: "We are the Hitler Youth, We don't need any Christian truth, For Adolf Hitler, our Leader, Always is our interceder...We follow not Christ but Horst Wessel...I'm not a Christian, nor a Catholic, I go with the SA through thin and thick".

I've already taken too much space for this off-topic discussion. I would invite you to read the struggle between the so-called "German Christians" and the Confessing Church. Lest we forget, the famous quote: "First they took the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing...And they took the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little. Then when they came and took me, there was no one left who could have stood up for me." This was made by Martin Niemoller, who at first supported Hitler, but became alarmed at Nazification of the faith. To say the Nazis were not hostile to the church and would have been even more so had they won the war is the true silliness.

@67: "possible homosexual", yes. I use this term to denote a youth who is probably gay, but for whom it is too soon to tell. Most gay people don't realize their sexual orientation until their mid-teens.
@68: Which quotations exactly are you referring to? I believe I have used all my quotation marks (or conspicuous lack thereof) correctly of late.
@70: Look it up.
Plagiarism is "a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work", according to wordnetweb.princeton.edu
See, I cited my source. The Period Hive Drone copied whole paragraphs from NARTH and did not mention once that it had done so.
Generally, Alleged, it is not wise for a stunningly illiterate buffoon like you to try to play semantics with the well-read and well-educated son of an English professor.
@73: Know your enemy.

Thank you Dan. I wish this guy was a bit more clear with his point:

"If anti-gay bullying has, at any level, an embodied undercurrent of tacit theological legitimation, then we simply cannot circumvent our responsibility to provide a clear, decisive, theological response. Aside from its theological base, anti-gay bullying is a theological issue because it calls for acts of solidarity on behalf of the vulnerable and justice on behalf of the oppressed."

The point is there though. Thanks for calling attention to it. People like this need all the attention we can get if we want to foster some real change.

I wanted to like the linked post, but I think it's built on a weak foundation.

I find it difficult to believe that even those among us with a vibrant imagination can muster the creative energy to picture a reality in which anti-gay violence and bullying exist without the anti-gay religious messages that support them.

I believe anti-gay violence and bullying would exist even if there were no anti-gay religious messages.

Nerdy boys get bullied. There are no anti-nerd religious messages that support such bullying, but it happens anyway.

Wow. Prof. Sprinkle sounds so very much like my straight father. Dad trained for 2 of 3 years in a Presbyterian Seminary, and was forced out by his sponsoring church because he was "too liberal" for their tastes. He went on to Law School and left the church completely for a very long time. In the last 15 years or so he has returned to the church, and it was only AFTER that return that we could begin comfortably discussing my sexuality. He'd always been coolly supportive in the past, but as he's studied his faith, he's joined a very inclusive denomination and is now openly and lovingly supportive. He's 70, I'm 43, and our relationship is stronger now that it has ever been.

I'm an agnostic/pagan myself, but I'll be the first to say not all religion is our enemy. And as others have pointed out, not all atheists are our friends.

But overall, things do get better for the vast majority of people I know. It's still dreadfully hard sometimes, but not that daily difficulty we faced in high school. And as an adult you will find friends and (if necessary) create your own family, and you will find people who love and respect you. It does, it gets so very much better.

Late to the thread as usual, but I feel compelled to respond to the NARTH troll - just to make a simple point: even if homosexuality were shown, beyond a doubt, to correspond positively to particular forms of mental illness or to mental illness generally - so what? Exactly what is the grand inference we are supposed to make here? Homosexuality, in that case, would be a harmless attachment to, or by-product of, more serious forms of mental illness. It wouldn't be the FIRST thing you treat or focus on. That would be like noticing a correlation between kleptomania and a predilection for wearing red shoes, then trying to outlaw red shoes. It makes. No. Sense.

Unless you're a Nazi and you just want to persecute minority groups. Then it makes perfect sense.

P.S. I love that Professor Sprinkle. He's like a gay Santa Claus.

Well, in my country people don't bother much with religion, and yet practically everyone is deeply homophobic.

It's time for human kind to grow beyond with the mythology. Stop using make believe stories to justify your hate and bigotry.

#31, FTW.

I'd extend the metaphor and say that neither are for everyone, they can both be tremendously rewarding or tremendously aversive, and in any case, are best taken in moderation (if at all).

I'm all for awareness and ending bullying and stuff, but can we go back to sick fetishes now?

Hey Dan, everyone. On the subject of theological debate, I wondered if you'd seen this:

http://www.sexinchrist.com/

How to justify pretty much anything via the Bible, including threesomes (not MMF threesomes though, as "Although two men having simultaneous sexual relations with one woman may not have any overt homosexual contact between them, the act of sharing a woman and being together in a sexual situation is nevertheless homoerotic and suggests implied homosexuality, as well as presenting a temptation to experiment where one may ordinarily not. For this reason, we feel it is best for a couple to avoid bringing another man into the picture.")

It's really quite... errr... enlightening...

Hey Dan, everyone. On the subject of theological debate, I wondered if you'd seen this:

http://www.sexinchrist.com/

How to justify pretty much anything via the Bible, including threesomes (not MMF threesomes though, as "Although two men having simultaneous sexual relations with one woman may not have any overt homosexual contact between them, the act of sharing a woman and being together in a sexual situation is nevertheless homoerotic and suggests implied homosexuality, as well as presenting a temptation to experiment where one may ordinarily not. For this reason, we feel it is best for a couple to avoid bringing another man into the picture.")

It's really quite... errr... enlightening...

@1 - Chinese culture traditionally was very conservative and highly sexist. Sexist cultures generally are also homophobic (queers don't fit into narrow gender roles focused around the continuation of a male line of family heirs). Attitudes didn't change overnight after the revolution. The communist government has been trying to stamp out sexism for decades, with limited success. Foot binding was banned, "a girl is as good as a boy" was a propaganda slogan, etc; but gender selective abortion, abandonment of female children, and infanticide still happen regularly enough to skew the gender ratio of the population.

So although modern China is atheist from an official standpoint, Chinese society still retains many of its pre-communist 'values' that may have been derived from the religious beliefs of previous generations.

http://renwl.org/opinion/anti-bullyingsu…

I just posted a link to a post about why this aiming only at LGBT youth and bullying/suicide is a bad idea. I also think Dan Savage is an idiot for attacking Christian parents. They're going to continue to be Christian, Dan. And in their Christiandom some of them are raising gay kids. It would behoove you to keep the kids in mind as you congratulate yourself setting the parents straight. How can you be so damn short-sighted. Do you really care about the plight of these children in particular Dan? Do you really think telling the parents how effed up they are is going to support their gay kids who might already be in trouble?

You're a fuckin' egomaniac is what you are. Be anti-Christian in your time. I could give a shit. But don't launch an attack at these folks who have gay kids in their care. You aren't do these kids any favors that's for sure. Why don't you and all those like you circle jerk to other topics if you're not going to restrain yourself with the safety and well-being of these children in mind.

derrick9, there's so much wrong with your blog post it's honestly hard to know where to begin. But since I'm commenting here and not there, I'll keep it short: nearly everything you claim is wrong.

Some examples: Nobody, not Dan Savage, not anybody posting here, no one involved in the It Gets Better project, nobody has claimed "exclusive persecution in relationship to bullying and suicides of LGBT youth." Nobody. We all know that all kinds of youths are bullied and/or commit suicide; our particular focus happens to be LBGT youth.

The claim that creating an anti-bullying/suicide awareness drive and campaign aimed at LGBT children and teens is "myopic, self-involved, cold-hearted and insensitive" is breathtakingly ignorant, and only betrays your lack of knowledge and understanding of the It Gets Better project and the motivations of those who support it.

Your claim that a study published in 1989 is the basis for the view that LBGT youth are four times more likely to attempt suicide than other young people---which you refute---is also untrue. There have been a great many more studies done on LGBT suicide since 1989---in practically ever year since then, in fact---and all have found similar or even higher rates of suicidality among LBGT youth than the 1989 study. For just one example: a 2006 study by San Francisco State University found, among other things, that lesbian, gay, and bisexual young adults who reported higher levels of family rejection during adolescence were 8.4 times more likely to report having attempted suicide.

Not that any of that should fucking matter. It's unbelievable and revolting that you're actually trying to show in your post that LBGT youth are at less risk of suicide than other groups, and that somehow that would matter even if it were true.

You refer to LBGTs as "we," which would suggest you identify somewhere along the queer continuum. That you could be so utterly ignorant of the realities of growing up LGBT in America is inexplicable. Unlike LGBT kids, overweight kids---the group you identify as being most at risk for bullying---do not, as a rule, face discrimination or violence from their own parents and families; they aren't subject to anti-fat tirades from the pulpit or to humiliating and dangerous exorcisms; they are not isolated (a majority of Americans are overweight); and they do live in a cultural environment awash with messages that cast them as evil, mentally ill, sub-human, and generally ineligible for full participation in society. In fact, as you should well know, no other group of kids besides LGBT kids is subject to this type of abuse.

LGBT kids rarely have personal access to LGBT adults as they're growing up, and there are precious few openly gay public figures in America. The It Gets Better Project was started to fill precisely this void: to let LGBT kids know that others like them have gone through the same things and have survived and thrived. You had the poor taste to bring up AIDS to bolster your idiotic point that treating it as a form of persecution was a good strategy. That would require a whole other post to properly address, but suffice it to say here that LGBT people stepped up and dealt with the HIV epidemic because nobody else would. This project is no different: LGBT people taking positive action to help the members of their community.

That you chose to write that absurd, loathsome, repugnant, frankly obscene post at a time when nine---NINE---boys ranging in age from 11 to 18 have killed themselves due to homophobic bullying in America in a little more than a month (that's nine that we know about, by the way), a post in which you inveigh and maunder against people who are actually trying to do something to stop such suffering, is indicative of your own insensitivity and sycophantic, cringing self-hatred, not of anyone else's agenda.

@97: "When studies that claim homosexual teens are a zillion times more likely to have 'attempted' suicide are objectively reviewed most of the 'attempts' turn out to be 'have thought about suicide'."
Oh really? Do tell!

Homophobia has nothing to do with religion, so talking about Japan or China or atheism is meaningless. It comes from patriarchy and strict gender roles. Christianity just happens to be a patriarchal religion.

95 Derric9: I totally agree that your post is just plain stupid. An analogy to your form of faulty reasoning may be that anti spouse abuse organizations are wrong to call out the abusers on their violence because there still are women living in homes where they are being abused and that actions to bring the abuse into the light may increase the abuse. I mean WTF dude. Pretty fucked up logic.

The fact remains that most of the anti gay rhetoric today has a Christian source. This hate rhetoric may be cloaked under the bible as its defense and it directly or indirectly is responsible for the hostile environment that exists for glbtq youth.

No one is claiming here that all Christians are bad or propagate this hate and unfortunately to date painfully few supportive Christians have called out their Christian brothers and sisters on their hateful anti gay rhetoric forcing the glbtq to do just that.