When Will We Reach The Tipping Point?

Comments

But we have reached a point where Carl Paladino in one breath says that gay parades are disgusting and in the next breath claims he is not homophobic. Because some part of him thinks it is wrong to be homophobic but not the part that thinks we are brainwashing children. We could say it is progress that politicians don't welcome the homophobic label, but it feels like 1984.

atlantaqueer on October 12, 2010 at 1:04 PM

That appearance on CNN was Dan at his very best in my opinion. For someone who was sick those were some well chosen powerful words. Seriously good stuff.

Gregus on October 12, 2010 at 1:05 PM

Thanks for takin' the time out of your sickness to talk to me on Friday, Dan.
Hope you're feeling better!

Ness on October 12, 2010 at 1:06 PM

on the bright side dan, look at the comments. i read the top 10 or 15 & every one ripped the either washington post, perkins or both a new asshole. the tipping point isn't here yet, but we're getting close, and surprisingly fast imo, when you consider what hateful predjudiced fucks people are inclined to be.

philosophy school dropout on October 12, 2010 at 1:10 PM

Actually, after I watched that clip last week, I realized the whole thing had aired with no interruptions: No other guest butting in, no host cutting you off when you said things that were, well, normal for Slog, but pretty strong for mainstream TV, I was impressed. And as disappointing as it is that the Washington Post would publish a piece like the Perkins one, I would hazard a guess that CNN reaches more people.

And they said the same thing about giving women the vote, too, that it would bring about the dissolution of the American family, and lead to moral decline in general.

Canuck on October 12, 2010 at 1:16 PM

Many peoples have won some serious ground, and our culture is the better for it. But remember, there are still others—leaders, journalists, pundits—given serious consideration as they argue where someone can build a mosque.

Dougsf on October 12, 2010 at 1:18 PM

@4: Wow, the comments are definitely worth reading. My favorite so far: "Tony Perkins talking about compassion for Gays is sort of like Joseph Mengele talking about minimally invasive surgery for Jews."

Drone on October 12, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Best quote around the 3:30 mark: "The religious right needs to be held accountable for the climate of hate, and fear, and bullying that they've encouraged in the schools. This is what we're seeing for their efforts: dead children".

There is no better way to sum up what needs to be done. That quote should be in op-eds, on billboards, hell, pay a pilot to skywrite it. Great interview, Dan.

Hernandez on October 12, 2010 at 1:19 PM

I'm going to tell you a secret.

A secret that Canuck knows, but is too polite to tell you.

The US will not reach the tipping point until 2025 at the earliest, because you're long on talk and short on do.

They have retired gay couples with military benefits who spent entire multi-decade careers as out gay military and who got legally married.

We talk, but we don't do. And no amount of excuses will change that basic fact.

Will in Seattle on October 12, 2010 at 1:20 PM

@1,

I wouldn't give him that much credit. He just knows that it could lose him votes (although I guess that's also progress).

keshmeshi on October 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM

I was on CNN for nearly six minutes. Alone. There was no one there from the religious right to provide "balance."

I think that's still key. I'm shocked you weren't paired up with some bigot for "balance" -- so progress is being made regardless of WaPo's shrill hate-spewing publication.

CNN rarely provides captions on their online stuff, so I can only guess at what you say (I'm deaf) but I'm still delighted to see you're up there delivering your entire message without obstruction.

BEG on October 12, 2010 at 1:26 PM

Well, come on, it's the Washington Post. These days it's not much better than the Washington Times.

By the way, what's the dirt on Campus Crusade for Christ? Who are their supporters? Anyone know if they're designated as a hate group by organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center?

seatackled on October 12, 2010 at 1:27 PM

It's not linear, babe - think of it as a graph thingy, with little peaks and valleys. Overall, thanks to evolution, history, the hard work of people like you, the trend is in one direction only. Certainly in the world of non-Fox basic cable.

And remember: WaPo sucks as hard as it blows, most days. Their giving Perkins some space ain't a bellwether.

gloomy gus on October 12, 2010 at 1:29 PM

That's the thing about history, we live in it and it's always writing itself. Someday off in the future we may be able to look back and confirm a tipping point. But, anyone of us who are fans of history or hiking know that the road down hill often has up hills to climb. That tipping points don't mean the "war" has come to an end, just that the tide has turned and that the upper hand has begun slipping from one side to the next.. It's a journey.

In short, I wouldn't let go of your flu-induced delirium, but let the hope it gave you move you further forward. Nice job re the interview. Keep up the good work, Dan. My thoughts are with you.

kim in portland on October 12, 2010 at 1:34 PM

Here's the thing: there's no way they can get the right wing "values" homophobes to look at all reasonable next to a sick-as-a-dog Dan Savage as we discuss the rash of publicized gay teen suicides and bullying. In order to sell their homophobia, they need distance from the dead bodies they create - thus they won't appear concurrent to Dan talking about those issues.

gekko on October 12, 2010 at 1:35 PM

Somebody should kick fuck that dickbag in the shithole until he develops pernicious anemia.

on October 12, 2010 at 1:38 PM

later this week on the post:

"Race relations would be vastly improved by a return to slavery"

"How to tell your Jewish friends they're going to Hell"

"Women: Can't live without 'em and the damn cops won't let you beat some sense into them"

"This country would be a lot better if we got rid of the dirty foreigners"

"Jesus hates you because you're not just like me"

mikeyg on October 12, 2010 at 1:54 PM

I would rather have this bigot out in the open espousing his views - look at the universal derision in the comments

The tipping point in gay rights has already been reached - by that I mean there is no going back to the way it was back in the 60's - it is obvious to everyone who is paying attention that these reforms will happen eventually - this delay - this waiting for more old racists to die is frustrating - but evolution is a slow process. What you are looking for is called critical mass - as per Wikipedia "the existence of sufficient momentum in a social system such that the momentum becomes self-sustaining and fuels further growth"

DavidC on October 12, 2010 at 2:02 PM

Paladino said he's Catholic and he believes it's unhealthy and wrong to take children to the Gay Pride Parade. So, let's see, how many children have been raped at a parade and how many children have been raped at Catholic Church or by priests? And why are Catholics so fucking blind and/or stupid?

Vince on October 12, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Nice, Dan. But old? Well, yeah, I guess. Me, too. But you know that it means that we've lived through and survived some of the most exciting and wonderful and horrible terrible times in our country's history.

And I know that you know - what with the friends we have lost - that growing old is a privilege, right?

Happy belated birthday and get well soon.

Bauhaus I on October 12, 2010 at 2:06 PM

Thanks Dan for fighting the good fight. It is surely is a major battle in the war for full equality. Bravo!

echovic on October 12, 2010 at 2:15 PM

Come on, Dan. We are winning, and it is happening pretty quickly. Everyone with a brain knows Tony Perkins is a hateful nutjob. Shame on the Washington Post for publishing this crap. They will be getting tons of angry e-mails.

very bad homo on October 12, 2010 at 2:17 PM

DADT INJUNCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sitting at my desk crying in joy!!

bareboards on October 12, 2010 at 2:18 PM

Remember that the Washington Post is up for sale.

At least according to Bloomberg News and CNBC.

Will in Seattle on October 12, 2010 at 2:23 PM

Dan, I will only take issue with you on one point. There may be times when modesty and avoiding the appearance of self-promotion are appropriate, but now is not the time. As someone who is occasionally shy myself, I understand your reluctance to put yourself out there for what you believe. But Dan, you've been given a "pulpit" to educate people on the harm being done by the anti-gay factions in government, religion and society in general. Do not allow your detractors, or anyone else, to push you back into the "closet". It's far too important an issue. Lives are at stake.

Jaydog5280 on October 12, 2010 at 2:28 PM

Each and everytime these asshats speak or write or print shit like, I am strangely comforted by the fact that they will all inevitably die cold lonely pessimists with only their bibles and bigotry to comfort them.

despicable me on October 12, 2010 at 2:31 PM

Someone needs to clue this guy in to postmodern theory: there ARE no individuals to blame, there are only the products of various intersecting social systems. One of which is the [insert bigotry-promoting church to which this guy belongs].

Also, someone needs to clue him in to false correlations, false binaries, non-sequiturs, etc. Or not give disingenuous propaganda-spewing fucks national platforms.

Also, what's up with Jesus countermanding Torah law? How are we supposed to follow the Bible when it directly contradicts itself?

John Horstman on October 12, 2010 at 2:33 PM

Is there anything we can do to punish the Washington Post?

Fake ads? No one with a brain reads it of course, but fuck, I've been mad about this junk science article all day. He calls gay people child molesters.

Fish Wrench Asteroid on October 12, 2010 at 2:33 PM

The only thing that keeps the Post solvent is its ownership of the for-profit university Kaplan. And its ability to make money off of Kaplan is severely threatened by new rules concerning student loans.

gnossos on October 12, 2010 at 2:36 PM

Dan..BRAVO. Tight, well-said, spot on.

My heart breaks at the loss of life of these scared kids. May their unwitting sacrifice be the turning point. Surely the injunction about DADT is no coincidence; surely your opinion unchallenged on CNN, also not luck.

Sending you thoughts of hot baths with eucalyptus & tea tree oil - that always perks me up when I am that sickly. & lotsa hot tea.

Eva Hopkins on October 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM

"anti-gay"..putting something in quotes doesn't make it less real, asshole. @tonyperkins

Y'wanna know what the harms of homosexuality are..? Getting potentially beaten, bullied, taunted & sometimes KILLED for who you naturally ARE.

OK, need to go be AFK & beat on the punching bag for awhile. "They will know we are Christians by our love"..? I know there's Kim & many others like her, thanks for posting links to them too..but this makes me wanna scream.

Eva Hopkins on October 12, 2010 at 2:49 PM

You're makin it happen, Dan, you're makin it happen.

Cory on October 12, 2010 at 2:52 PM

I've had Sam Cooke's A Change is Gonna Come running through my head all day long. I honestly think we HAVE reached the tipping point. We are the majority. We are winning. The haters know it. That's why they're getting so shrill and illogical. It's been a long, long time coming, but I know, a change is gonna come.

Geni on October 12, 2010 at 3:51 PM

While the word choice that Perkins uses in his column seems specifically chosen to come across as empathetic and conciliatory--without actually admitting any fault--his use of quotations belies his underlying contempt and dismissive mindset toward the topics Dan is talking about.

Knat on October 12, 2010 at 3:56 PM

Dan, you were articulate as always.

What type of class are you taking? You've mentioned it before and now I'm curious ???

heythere on October 12, 2010 at 3:59 PM

Dan, love the message, but that Skype connection made you look weirdly asymmetrical and, consequently, freakier that you needed to be. Maybe it was something about the camera angle? Get a media production guy to help you stop looking so weird over your Skype. It undermines your message.

butterw on October 12, 2010 at 4:36 PM

Right now the haters have no shame in stating their views. We need to reach the point where they're, not ashamed they won't ever be ashamed, at least in a place where they're uncomfortable saying what they say in public. They need to be afraid of saying this stuff out loud. Their very words speak of desperation more than anything else.

capricorn44 on October 12, 2010 at 5:27 PM

Everyone above has already praised the substance of your appearance, so I'll just say "ditto" to that.

So, instead I'll just vent my pet peeve that the anchor doesn't know what the fuck "brainchild" means?!?! REALLY, madam, it's not like you're paid to speak on television, or anything!!! A brainchild is the entity created by the ideas of a particular person, so "It Gets Better" is the brainchild of Dan Savage, NOT the other way around! Maybe she was going for "mastermind" or something like that...

Aaarghs..... okay, back to gay rights now... but grammar has feelings, too!

on October 12, 2010 at 5:35 PM

Sorry, Dan.
"Objectivity" DOES require more than one point of view.
And you don't get to veto or censor the other point of view.
An 'Editorial Director' would know that....

Of course, propaganda requires no other viewpoints.

on October 12, 2010 at 5:37 PM

Well-done as always, Dan! And rest up and feel better -- @37 was right, you looked like someone who has the flu.

Also, did anyone notice the anchor's malapropism in calling Dan the "brainchild" of the It Gets Better Project? Isn't it more accurate to say the IGBP was his brainchild? Or call him the "creator" rather than brainchild of IGBP? Dumb anchors.

Flying Monkey of Froth on October 12, 2010 at 5:56 PM

@40: Read it again and report back on your findings concerning objectivity.
(SPOILER: objectivity doesn't require that you bring in extreme and illogical views.)

venomlash on October 12, 2010 at 6:46 PM

Freedom ain't Free:

So, you really think people who want to prevent mixed-race marriage or women voting SHOULD be invited on television and treated like sane people?

Every time someone mentions the earth is round, shall we invite someone from the Flat Earth Society to provide "balance"? Is it "propaganda" to state unequivocally that the earth is round, or is it just refusing to indulge nutso freaks?

What Dan is saying is that the point of view that is opposed to civil rights and equality is, like the examples above, so full of shit that it is not worth our time or effort to listen to it or to invite its adherents to television shows.

Here is Bill Maher on "two sides," and it's absolutely indispensable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06R-qTXfV…

Alemana on October 12, 2010 at 6:59 PM

Flying Monkey, yep, I did! #39, right before I broke down and registered an account!

Alemana on October 12, 2010 at 7:02 PM

Whenever these guys claim they don't support kids being bullied to death, we need to pin them down and ask them if they support anti-bullying programs that teach tolerance. Connect the dots and make it clear how they are making things worse.

Smhill on October 12, 2010 at 9:16 PM

Dan is not the brain child of the "It Gets Better" project. The "It Gets Better" project is the brain child of Dan.

Other than the anchorwoman looking like an idiot, however, this segment was great, and I'm glad Dan posted it because I would have missed it. I don't watch TV "news" because it's 99% sensationalism and news anchors who don't know what words mean.

random_lez on October 12, 2010 at 9:32 PM

Really nice job, Dan. Total pro, didn't miss a beat.

I'm sure some would accuse you of self-promotion if you posted more of these appearances, but I wish you would. I'll never see them otherwise because I don't have cable TV.

seandr on October 12, 2010 at 10:48 PM

" I was on CNN for nearly six minutes. Alone. There was no one there from the religious right to provide "balance." "

Dan claims Christians cause homosexual kids to commit suicide.

That is a sweeping broad vile accusation that the facts easily dismiss.

Dan doesn't want the facts presented.

He dismisses all opinions that differ from his own as "hate".

Blaming social ills on religious minorities is an old trick.

Dan's spewing about Christians is EXACTLY like Hitler blaming Germany's problems on The Jews.

Hitler didn't want any Jews there providing "balance" when he was ranting on at Nuremberg Rallies in the 30's. Hitler achieved his "tipping point" where no one dared contradict him.

When Dan gets on CNN he doesn't want any one there from the religious right to provide "balance." Dan wants American society to reach his "tipping point" where he no longer has to compete with the facts.

The Truth will always defeat Lies.
The Truth doesn't fear comparison- it shines when compared to Lies.

Lies and Propaganda are terrified of the Truth.
Lies and Propaganda are terrified of "balance".

Lies and Propaganda crave the "tipping point" where do one dare utter the Truth.

Dan's Qunited States of Gaymerica is reaching that point.

Congratulations, Dan.

Smothering the debate has never worked well for free societies in the past.

It won't work out well here, either.

. on October 13, 2010 at 2:58 AM

Seizing and distorting a crime or other tragedy to advance one's agenda is another common trick.

In 1938, Hershel Grynszpan, a 17-year-old Jewish boy distraught at the deportation of his family, shot Ernst vom Rath, the third secretary in the German Embassy in Paris, who died on November 9. Nazi hooligans used this assassination as the pretext for instigating a night of destruction that is now known as Kristallnacht (the night of broken glass). They looted and destroyed Jewish homes and businesses and burned synagogues. Many Jews were beaten and killed; 30,000 Jews were arrested and sent to concentration camps.

Similarly Dan seizes the suicides of teens, even if they are prompted by relationship disappointments, and uses them as pretext for sweeping denunciations of an entire religious group.

. on October 13, 2010 at 3:04 AM

Dan doesn't care what the true root of suicide among homosexuals is.
Or rather, he doesn't want the truth to be known and understood.
Teen suicides are a useful tool for Dan.
The dead kids are collateral damage in Dan's war on religion.

Why are homosexual suicide rates in the Gay-embracing Netherlands so high?

Why do suicide rates among homosexuals (and heterosexuals) correlate so closely to personal relationship disappointments?

Why doesn't Dan have Golob explain it to Slog?

. on October 13, 2010 at 3:08 AM

A few weeks ago Dan said he wouldn't be satisfied until Christians quit believing that homosexual behavior is wrong.
Even if they never acted on those beliefs.
In Dan's Qunited States of Gaymerica Dan will reach into the hearts and minds of every Christian and purge any beliefs and thoughts he does not approve of.

Dan's war on religion rages.

He craves the Tipping Point when other points of view will not be allowed to be expressed in public.

Did even Hitler dare aspire to scrub the minds of his enemies?

. on October 13, 2010 at 3:13 AM

A few weeks ago Dan said he wouldn't be satisfied until Christians quit believing that homosexual behavior is wrong.
Even if they never acted on those beliefs.

Please provide the exact quote. Or did he not actually say what you claim he says? Perhaps you're rewriting history, which would make a comparison between you and, say, Goebbels, apt.

Southern Gentleman on October 13, 2010 at 5:54 AM

@48: Lies and propaganda ARE terrified of the truth, so much that they demand equal footing in debate so as not to be seen for what they truly are. There's a reason that, when debating evolution, we are not obligated to listen to Creationists; similarly, when debating issues of gay rights, we are not obligated to listen to the delusional and offensive ravings of every bigoted coward.

venomlash on October 13, 2010 at 7:33 AM

52

He said it.
He even tried to retract it.
Ask Dan yourself.....

on October 13, 2010 at 11:25 AM

53

Dan gloated over the exclusion of the 'religious right'.

In the Qunited States of Gaymerica only athiests and liberals get a voice....

(they demand "equal footing" because they are afraid? Logic fail. It is Dan who wants the microphone all to himself who is afraid......)

Just Why is the Homosexual suicide rate so high in the Netherlands?.....

on October 13, 2010 at 12:20 PM

@54 I asked for the exact quote. That's not "skeptisism and ignorance". That's suspicion of trolls who fail reading comprehension.

Try again.

Southern Gentleman on October 13, 2010 at 1:08 PM

56

skeptisism. and. ignorance.

on October 13, 2010 at 3:43 PM

@57: One, the burden of proof is on you to prove that Dan said what you say he did. We have no reason to believe you until you cite a source.
Two, it's "skepticism", not "skeptisism". Learn2English.
Three, "¿comprendré?" is misspelled. I think you mean "¿comprenderé?", which literally means "I will understand?" But obviously you won't understand, since you're dumber than a bag of hammers. Learn2Spanish.
Bitch.

@55: We don't listen to you guys for the same reason we don't listen to Nazis. In the Qunited States of Gaymerica, as you insist on calling the portions of America not relegated to Dumbfuckistan, everyone is allowed to voice their opinions in a non-threatening, non-slanderous, open manner. That's in the Bill of Rights. You are not entitled to spew your bullshit over the airwaves; if a network doesn't want to invite you on because they know you're just a bitter, prejudiced crank with nothing useful to add to the debate, that's their prerogative.

venomlash on October 13, 2010 at 5:15 PM

58

Prove the Troll is a Liar, Danny!!

Deny It!!!

He won't, vemon.

Because it's true.

We can't help it if you don't read Slog...

(btw- if you stick you thumbs in your ears and humm real loud you may be able to block out the Truth.....)

(of course, you'll have to pull the dick out of your ear first)

on October 13, 2010 at 8:09 PM

@59 You can't cite a source any more than you can spell, but you call others "Intellectually Bankrupt"?

That's called "projection".

Southern Gentleman on October 14, 2010 at 4:57 AM

@1:

Oh fuck off. Homophobes don't think they're afraid of gays. They think they *hate* gays. Because in their minds, the two emotions are mutually exclusive. Likewise, you couldn't find a racist alive that thought they were afraid of people with different coloured skins.

As much as I'd like to change the language so that we had a better word for "anti-gay bigot" than "homophobe", that's what we're stuck with, and no homophobe thinks he's afraid, so they resist the label vehemently. Don't think for a moment that it's because they think there might be something wrong with what they think.

gromm on October 14, 2010 at 5:50 AM

60

ah-

back to make another projectile vomiting deposit on Slog...

everyone who actually reads Slog well remembers when Dan said it (and his clumsy attempt to back out of it...)

you and vemon are just humiliating yourselves.

on October 14, 2010 at 7:32 AM

@62 If "everyone who actually reads Slog well remembers when Dan said it (and his clumsy attempt to back out of it...)" then you should have no problem reminding us when it was said and what exactly was said. Maybe I didn't read the specific post you're referring to. Given your vague references it's difficult to find and, given your history, I've got very good reasons to not take your word for it that Dan said what you claim he said. So please either provide the exact quote or cite the source. Otherwise the only thing that's pathetic here is your attempt to pass off your your perceptions as facts.

As for humiliating ourselves, again, that's called "projection". I'm proud of you for actually being able to spell "humiliating", though. I know how hard those polysyllabic words are for you.

Southern Gentleman on October 14, 2010 at 8:07 AM

63

Danny knows he said it.

on October 14, 2010 at 8:17 AM

Dan Savage:

"I don't usually post clips from my appearances on cable news shows. I'm modest like that."

Personally, I come to slog to read what Dan Savage has to say. I don't even read slog. I just go to Dan Savage's author archive and click my way up.

I don't want modesty, I want more Dan Savage. Put up the goddamn videos. Put up the links.

Misha Vargas on October 17, 2010 at 10:41 AM

Ummmm.... The whole thing about how you remember when they had a racist caveman on to provide the "other side" of civil rights debates anymore? Dude, Pat Buchanan lives on the couch at Rachel Maddow's show so he can be the first one to get on air whenever there's a racial issue.

on October 17, 2010 at 2:38 PM

65
I WANT MORE COWBELLS!

on October 18, 2010 at 6:21 PM

When Will We Reach The Tipping Point?

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