They are making than my husband and I put together and we live in the city, so I don't know what they are talking about.

Fuck, I should become a cop.

Any dual-income cop (husband/wife/partner/any combo) that says they can't afford city residence especially is full of it.

Including overtime, the average sworn SPD officer earned about $114,300.00 in 2009.

Excluding overtime, the average sworn SPD officer earned $103,600.00 in 2009.

Look more closely at the math, Dominic. Look at how cops make as much as the ELECTED CITY COUNCIL members.

Godden J Councilmember Legislative-City Council 118074.11 1/1/04

Conlin R Councilmember Legislative-City Council 111003.27 1/1/98

Burgess T Councilmember Legislative-City Council 117948.79 1/1/08

@4 no one is saying cops don't earn enough for the fact they may got shot in the face any given day. The point is that any argument that a cop salary can't afford to live in the city is on it's face instantly proven false, especially when they make as much money as our elected city council.

@4: I don't think they're paid excessively at all. I think the issue is that they are paid enough to live in the city where they work, yet most of them do not, claiming it's too expensive.

Also cops get the majority of cops get the little jobs at barnes and noble, construction sites, parties, private events, stadium, concerts, and all kinds of shit that they go get and its not the ones with seniority, most cops pull close to 90 with all that. and im sure they live, like most of us, in 2 income house holds, this is bull crap. upper rank officers make more than a hundred. and this crap that theyre afraid for their families is crap. its not like theyre living in lakeshore apartments on henderson and rainier beach and im sure nobody is going to attack them in wallingford or other neighborhoods where the ones that live in the city live. this is bull crap. they can afford to live here.

The pay argument is bullshit. Seattle cops are mostly social and political conservatives. There ain't much for them in this city.

@8 got's it. too many of us brown (non-fox/white) folk in seattle. i'm a city inspector and live in town, plus i don't shoot people.

Cops make over $100,000 a year?

Jesus fucking Christ. That makes no goddamn sense. They deserve like $30k for that kind of work. What do we pay our trash men, a fucking billion dollars a day?

I can't even believe I went to college! All I had to do was sign up for the public dole and become a brainless cop?

Fuck.

Why live in Seattle when you can afford to live in Mercer Island?

Look at Chicago - if we're willing to face the contract negotiating consequences we can force city employees to live in town no matter what we pay them. That said...

Some people in comments insist, "No, captain, it's impossible to live inside Seattle on that pittance. Officers must live in the outer nebula and commute."

You do realize only one of the forty-odd commenters mentioned anything like that?

In theory, cops are like the military -- on duty 24/7. They don't want to have to respond to public safety issues in their neighborhood when off duty.

State law specifically forbids cities from requiring that public safety employees live within city boundaries. To enforce any such residency requirement, state law would have to be changed first.

My husband, myself and our daughter live in the city on a single income (for now) that is $30k less than the average cop wage. And we own a condo. Seriously, there is no excuse for someone making that kind of money not to live in the city.
@11 lol, there are some days when I can't believe I'm still paying for college, ugh.

This is as ridiculous like when Gary Payton had a fundraiser during the strike for basketball players who were only making league minimum. 300 K at the time.
People even want housing subsidies for people who make a hundred k, but want to cut the benefits of teachers and others. Hey, Im cool if cops make good money, and their union fought for their wages. But don’t act like they’re poor and cant live in a city where the rest of us somehow manage.
Lets get real, most officers don’t face guns in their faces every day. That’s just melodrama. For the most part they answer routine calls and arrest shoplifters and pick up drunks, hang out at starbucks, answer domestic violence calls, pick up kids hanging out and being punks, and yes it gets stressful. My nephew is a cop in Philly- a city with real crime and he tells me the routines, even in a city with huge numbers in crime like Philly, he doesn’t feel like he is going to die or nor come home that day. Now a city like Seattle which barely has 20 murders a year, clearly its not MAD MAX out here , yes crap happens, but its not like they face danger every second they’re writing you a ticket. Yes there have been tragedies and brutality against good officers, but seriously is not like officers are shot, assaulted every day, or every month, or every year even.
Most are hard working individuals who do their job well and go home to Marysville, most are decent, but they, the decent ones defend the assholes and none of em speak out against the extremist and the tea partiers in their ranks. That’s their problem, that and most of them live in god forsaken places like Kitsap county, Everett and Marysville. The thing is that some don’t get they’re public servants and were their customers, and like them, most of us are not criminals, not only that were the ones who pay them. Yes, most of my interactions have been positive, but Ive met plenty of asshole cops who have profiled me and treated me and my friends like crap just because of where I live and how I look. There is a problem in the institution and we know is not going to be solved by residency requirements alone, but it’s a good place to start.
Hell you want a dangerous job? Try being a logger.

But if you live in the sticks, you can have a bigger place for the RV, boat, ATV's, gun collection, etc. Or in the suburbs, where you can own a couple of the houses around you and be the Big Man on the Block?

Powerful number Dom, thanks. I wonder what the union dues are? 70$ a month?

At that rate the police union makes over a million dollars a year, some of which goes to political campaigns.

McGinn is really bucking the trend here and needs to be applauded. He is looking after the whole city, not just his potential contributors (they probably backed his opponent).

The M.O. is to give the unions more, out of my taxes- and to get paid back in contributions- in a sophisticated money laundering scheme, that affects my small business, which I almost closed last year.

@13: Actually, my understanding is that Washington state law prohibits the city from requiring its workers to live in the city limits.

Look, there's no question that for a lot of people they can live better in the suburbs for the same coin. A friend of mine sold her small house in central Seattle and bought one in a near north side suburb for a little less money than the old house. It was twice as big and had a bigger yard. Sure, it's an '80s house instead of an old world charm one, but if you have a family, you're priorities shift. You want more space, a yard for them, etc.

Then there's the issue of schools. Not everyone has the energy to navigate the Seattle School District to get the most out of it. Not everyone can afford private school tuition for their kids. Most rational people realize that their kid's education is not an ideological statement. You don't put your kids in a shitty school to make some sort of a political point. It sucks. It's unfair, but if you have the resources to put your kids in a better school. you're going to do it, even if doing so means moving to the suburbs. Most people's ideals go straight out the window on that point. They're going to give their kids the best schooling they can afford that is congruent with their beliefs.

So yeah, it would be great if more police lived in Seattle, but it's not surprising that they don't. While it may not literally be true that they can't afford to live in Seattle, it may well be true that they can't afford to live in Seattle and possess a quality of life outside of that has the attributes they value

Sure anyone can afford to live int he city, there are plenty of cheap 1 bedroom or studio apartments available. But buying a 2-3 bedroom home in the city, totally different thing.

Like alot of people who work in Seattle but dont live in Seattle, why spend 500,000 for a 3 bedroom home in Seattle, when you can spend half the money on the same house, but live in Marysville.

No one makes enough money. I've had clients making well over $250k per year claim they are barely making it and they can't afford to make ends meet.

It is an irrational fear, some kind of phobia. Anyone know the medical/technical term for this affliction? Perhaps "tightafistaphobia."

This mental pathology is the same that propels Eyeman's tax-cutting dogma. These people deny that they can pay any amount of tax despite the benefits it may provide.

@15, while you're right to point out that state law and the city charter put up some pretty high hurdles you'd have to clear to put a residency requirement in place, it's an oversimplification to say "it's forbidden". Yes, there are limitations proponents would have to work around, but with enough energy and persistence it's hardly impossible.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?…

That comment @21 should read "a quality of life outside of work that has the attributes they value."

@11 Would you do that job for $30k? I doubt it. I don't disagree with the amount they're getting paid. I wouldn't put up with that job for much less than that.

@22 "why spend 500,000 for a 3 bedroom home in Seattle, when you can spend half the money on the same house, but live in Marysville"

uhmm...because then you have to live in Marysville...

BRB - going to apply to be a cop. Eff this 25k a year job.

It does seem to be within the power of the City to offer city employees low cost financing to encourage them to purchase in the city. If the city offered city employees mortgages at 2% or 3% (with stipulations to prevent speculation and turning) in addition to down payment assistance below a certain pay level, the ratio would probably adjust over time to more choosing to live in the city.

Ah, they can afford to live in the city, but not with the luxury that is their due. (that was sarcasm)

Much whining by cops who think they should live like Princes amongst we serfs.

No million dollar condos for you, baby!

Someone who claims to be a Seattle police officer left a comment in response to the other post Dominic referenced, and claims that it's not a matter of money, but of safety. This person claims that police are so reviled that it is unsafe for them to spend their off-duty time in the same place where they work. Eric Arr responded, and I then wrote:

@29, Eric wrote, "It's hard not to sympathize when you put it that way. What with you living here in town, I hope it doesn't happen too often."

I agree. This is something police departments probably should track, particularly if the real or perceived risk does, as Officer Anonymous claims, keep our police officers from being able to live where they would prefer to live were that risk not a factor in the decision. If it's not as risky as they think it is, then we're missing opportunities to employ all the police officers who live in Seattle, work in other cities, and can't or won't work here in Seattle because of the "don't live where you work" policy.

It would be interesting to know how many Renton, Bellevue, Issaquah, Shoreline, Edmonds, Kirkland, Lynnwood, and Bothell officers live here in Seattle.

@33 um, if you work in the North Precinct you can buy a house in West Seattle, and if you work on Capitol Hill you can buy a place in Fremont.

Apparently, people from Capitol Hill rarely go here, so their paths would never cross.

@23 That condition has probably been around forever, but it became entwined with the American Dream after the Great Depression. Just having a good job, house, car & family wasn't enough. You have to be financially secure, which really means, rich enough to never worry about being poor. One of the legacies of the "Greatest Generation", along with undiagnosed PTSD.

rbowman, this was smart at all.
Why live in Seattle when you can afford to live in Mercer Island?
Does this answer to a question?

@33: Will, don't tell me, tell anonymous "just a beat cop" who wrote:

Never thought I'd be logging in here, but I'm one of the minority of Seattle cops who actually live within city limits. If my spouse wasn't an avid city dweller, I'd want to move my family out of Seattle.

Don't get me wrong, I love this city; Seattle PD is the only department I applied for, and if I hadn't been hired, I would not have accepted a position somewhere else. One of the best things about having "local cops", is that we take a lot of ownership in our neighborhoods. I love the beat I work in, and I care personally about the neighbors and shopkeepers in my district (to be fair though, the vast majority of cops I work with tell me, "I might not live here, but as soon as I'm outta roll call, this is MY city, and these are MY people." ).

The biggest issue, is that when you're a cop living in the city you work in, is that it's not just about you. I have my spouse's safety to worry about, I have my kid's safety to worry about. I get recognized when I'm out and about. On one hand, it's a good thing because 1) people will smile and see you as a "regular person", and 2) it's a great reminder to do your job well, because you're GOING to run into people you encounter on the job. A little respect goes a long way.

The flip side though, is that frankly, I deal with a lot of not-so-nice people. No matter how professional I may be, some of those not-so-nice people aren't going to like me, regardless. Some of those not-so-nice people would gladly stab me in the face without a second thought, or follow me home, or memorize my license plate number when they see me at the Safeway. That's the reality of it. A lot of these not-so-nice people might recognize me and my family when I'm trying to enjoy my off time and decide that TODAY is the day they have to tell me how angry they are that I locked up their abusive husband. Or arrested their little brother. Or towed their uncle's car after he was arrested for DUI. Maybe the Level III sex offender I arrested on a probation violation realizes that my kid is absolutely beautiful and lives not too far from where he does.

Most cops live outside of the cities they work in for these reasons, it's not due to scorn for Seattle's citizenry, it's because the safety of our families come first.

The only thing that would compel me to move my family out of Seattle would be for safety reasons, or I could get my kids into a better school district.

I'm suspicious of those numbers because they don't square with the figures on the SPD's site; in fact they exceed them by about $20K per year. Maybe they include benefits?

You also can't really include overtime when you're deciding how much you can afford to spend on housing. That's a recipe for getting foreclosed on the first month that you don't get any overtime work.

I should add, when I say they don't square, I mean the *average* you're giving is more than $20K higher than the *top* pay rank listed on SPD's recruiting site.

Why spend $500,000 for a 3 bedroom house in Seattle?
Who says you need to? I live in a 3 bedroom house in Seattle - it didn't cost even close to that. If you simply buy a 3 bedroom house from someone who wasn't a flipper, you get a normal, comfortable 3 bedroom house for a realistic price.
I looked at plenty of houses that were more expensive that were smaller and nothing special except for the designer paint colors, (cheap) stainless steel appliances, and dog barf granite countertops, cheap Ikea cupboards, etc. High price tags because there were "remodelled" and someone planted some flowers out front.
Even after I get around to doing all of this things, my house will still have cost less than $500k.

@38, Your salary could be cut after you sign a mortgage, too. Is it likely for salary to be cut? Is it likely for overtime hours to be cut? As far as I can tell, police officers treat overtime as part of the deal, not something that just happens in emergency times of understaffing.

I can only offer anecdotal info. I know a cop whose wife is a stay at home mom and they have 2 kids. They are not rich. They have to watch their money and are frugal people. But they do own their home, live on 1 salary, and live in the city. He is also a pretty young guy (and a nice guy), not some 50 something captain with 25 years on the force.

Could it be...could it just be...that the cops who don't live in Seattle don't like Seattle? (which would make them bad cops for this city, if you ask me.) Or that they *can* live in Seattle, but don't want to settle for a quality of life equal to average Seattle person? neither answer leads to good police - community interaction.

and finally...not new...but the officers would make a lot less than they do if they didn't have a UNION. Their benefits, salary, time off, protection during investigations of misconduct--all are a result in part of their UNION. I hope they all remember that before one of them next editorializes in their UNION newspaper about SOCIALISM and LIBERALS and COMMIES.

@42: Certainly I'm sure a lot of it is that the types of people likely to become Seattle cops (if you judge from their union newsletter) are not the types of people likely to want to live in Seattle. I'm not sure how you get around that; there are a lot of factors that select for political conservatives in jobs that involve wielding deadly force. Police forces will tend to be Republican for the same reason the military is overwhelmingly Republican.

But I also think it's a little unrealistic to expect many blue-collar workers (of *any* employment category) to want to financially just scrape by in order to live in a city full of expensive luxury condos, when there are neighborhoods intended to be affordable for people like them a short commute away.

@43: Most housing in Seattle is not expensive luxury condos.

@44: You're right, a lot of it is even more expensive single-family homes, too.

Orv @ 38 & 39,

I think the reason that the numbers don't square with the recruiting web site is because the average Seattle cop has been on the force for a number of years. If I get snowed out of work before the end of the day, I might have a chance to go through the spreadsheet and see how many years the average SPD officer has been on the job.

I remember a program in 90s to address the "cops in the city" problem which offered low interest loans and/or cash incentives to SPD officers buying homes within the city limits.

Is that still around? And if not WHY NOT?!?

And that number -- the "average" -- seems high since SPD's starting pay is more like $38-42k a year, if I remember correctly.

@50: see http://www.seattle.gov/police/jobs/benef… - $51K/year during academy, then starting at $64K

@50: My bad -- I'm totally off. That was before they got the bumps in pay a few years back. Now starting is $64-68k.

Yeah, but Dominick--do you have a back yard and a three car garage in a overwhelmingly white neighborhood? Didn't think so.

Does Seattle do any outreach to it's own high school and community college students? Not every 16-25 year old who grows up in Seattle has a record or is committed leftist. Plenty join the military or go to state colleges or take lower paying jobs. Any way to get those physically and mentally capable of being cops to sign up?

@ 21 - well said.

@ 57 - I would bet a significant chuck of the Seattle cops who live outside the city were born and grew up in Seattle.

I make $14,000 a year, and I can afford to live in the city, so fuck them.

What a fucking joke. How many people get paid over $100k/year to make the lives of the people around them worse?

We REALLY need to make a full-court press on this one. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that our cops can't live in our city. None. Period.

Housing prices in Seattle are not as extravagant as they are made out to be. Prices are much higher in the eastside suburbs.

There are plenty of 3-4 bedroom single family homes, with garages and yards, in the 300k range. There are foreclosures as low as 150k. This is not 2005. Check out listings in Delridge or Highland Park.

Remember, the vast majority of the City is zoned low-density residential.

@63 helllooooo... you are proving the point of this article. Seattle cops don't live in the city where they work because they are elitist, dumbfucking pricks. I make less than half of Ian Birk's salary and support 2 kids. I'd rather live here with neighbors I can respect than in the fucking burbs and have to commute to work with assholes like you. I'm glad you don't live here. I just wish you didn't work here either.

@65

well...at least no one will ever accuse you of coloring outside the lines. jesus.

@63: You don't get it. Seattleites don't care where you live; we want you not to work for us as a police officer. We would rather employ officers who, like we, want to live here in Seattle. We're less concerned with convincing out-of-town SPD officers to move to Seattle than we are with employing people who don't think our city is an indecent, immoral place.

WOW- you do not want the cop that patrols your neighborhood living in it. It is a breeding ground for corruption. I hope I don't have to spell out why.

@67 is correct.

If you don't like Seattle values, you shouldn't be in the SPD.

Don't know how is to live with the cop's salary in Seattle. Not a cop and never been to Seattle yet.
Anyway, watching the movies cops says that their salaries are not enough to live with?
Who knows!