Comments

1
seriously whack that the human being that was trayvon has to be the "perfect victim" in order to prove to the media/racist america that he didn't somehow "deserve" to be murdered. who cares if he was high or not? can't believe they're splitting hairs over this.
2
Oh well shit, he was high? This changes everything. It's all good, George, go on home. Kid was reefin'. You did good. God bless you, son, you probably saved us all.
3
That settles it ... Trayvon Martin was not the aggressor.
4

How much alcohol or drugs did Zimmerman have in his system?

5
While I dont think THC could give him the reefer madness! It does certainly chip away at his credibility as an harmless/innocent honor student. They paint him as an angel and its not holding up.

NOTE: Rosa Parks wasnt the first person to refuse to sit at the back of the bus, she was just the first one with a clean record to do so.
6
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
7

#5

Uh...sorry, it's already been broadcast in the press to all who would listen that Martin was suspended from school in part because of having an empty MJ bag in his knapsack.

So, nothing news here.

However -- the big news yesterday was that Martin was shot by Zimmerman at "intermediate range" which just about shuts down the whole idea of a struggle with Martin on top and Zimmerman managing to extract his arms and shot Martin.

My own interpretation is goes something like Zimmerman chasing down Martin, then when Martin turns around at say 6 to 10 feet away, Zimmerman draws his weapon and that's when Martin starts arguing...pleading...for his life (heard on 911 tapes).

Then Zimmerman shoots in cold blood. At that point, Zimmerman drags the body which gets blood on him -- which is wiped off and does not reappear...disproving any injury to Zimmerman.
8
@#4
An interesting question. Maybe if the police had, y'know, collected evidence we might be able to answer it.

As it is, we will never know.
9
What, no mention of the two black eyes, fractured nose or lacerations on Zimmerman's head that doctors reported and the NYT wrote about on Monday? Or his bloody nose police photographed? Looks like the choir boy did attack Zimmerman and now Zimmerman will go free; they should have charged with 2nd degree manslaughter but the braying hysterics were breathing down prosecutors' necks.
10
Ah, yes, ABC News. The "Blame the Victim" news organization, full of the worst right-wing hacks.

Remember how ABC's 20/20 got all breathless with an hour long "expose" about the fact that Matthew Shepard might have been high the night of his murder? Like people who end up beaten to death and tied to a fence are somehow more culpable for being victims of an insane level of violence if they're not complete innocent lambs who drink only milk and wait until the third date to shyly kiss?

ABC even went to prison to interview Shepard's murderers for that report to hear "their side of the story," violating an agreement the killers had made in court, and forcing Shepard's grieving mother to have to release a statement condemning 20/20's actions.

Gee, what ethical journalists they are at ABC. Oh, wait, did I say "ethical"? Did I say "journalists"?

I meant to say "human scum."
11
Oh, snap. They're tryin' to pin the reefer madness on him, ain't they?

Women cry for it. Men die for it.

Guess so.
12
I wonder who got the idea to smack Zimmerman in the face a couple times so he could have some sort of defense strategy? The initial witnesses never saw any damage on him at all.
13
@12

It's a consthpirathy!
14
If George Zimmerman had lived many years earlier and had shot 17-year-old Barack Obama instead of Trayvon Martin, there would have been THC in his blood, too.
15
@#12
Again, we'll never know what the initial witnesses saw because the goddam police didn't document anything.

In a country where most everyone has a half-decent cameraphone in their pocket at all times, the idea that the police wouldn't have a photographic record of pretty much everything present at the scene of a violently and recently dead human being is simply inexcusable. Not to mention that the cops didn't escort Mr. Zimmerman to the hospital for an X-ray and a properly documented medical examination, complete with evidence collection.

The errors compound, and between the police fnck-ups and the awful state law giving permission to perforate your environment the moment you feel a twinge of apprehension it's quite possible Zimmerman cannot be convicted. But the parents of the deceased Mr. Martin are inevitably going to sue the police for manifestly not giving a fnck about their son's violent death. They'll be right to, and by rights they'll own the damn town afterwards.
16
The only thing this helps clarify is why he had skittles and an iced tea
17
@7

Actually people dismissed his suspension from school, due to it being a trace amount. Now that the autopsy has shown that it was in his system, it suggests he frequently smoked it. It plays against his character, if your stupid enough to smoke it at school, you might be stupid enough to attack someone who's bothering/stalking you, rather than run 2 blocks home.

Medical reports yesterday, prove that Zimmerman was injured (broken nose, a minor black eye) and that Martin has some skin abrasions on his knuckles. The two probably did fight each other. Zimmerman's story hasn't changed, every few weeks, another chunk of evidence gets released that supports his case. He's probably going to walk.

While I have no plans to visit Florida and I hope to never make any due to this stupid freaking stand your ground law.
18
@5 I'd tell you to eat shit but judging by the stuff that comes out of your computer mouth you're way ahead of me.
19
@17 This paragraph has so much fail in it, I need to go get high.


Actually people dismissed his suspension from school, due to it being a trace amount. Now that the autopsy has shown that it was in his system, it suggests he frequently smoked it. It plays against his character, if your stupid enough to smoke it at school, you might be stupid enough to attack someone who's bothering/stalking you, rather than run 2 blocks home.
20
Zimmerman shot the kid, and when the cops came, they saw what went down and decided that their buddy needed to look like he'd been in a struggle, so one of them slugged him a couple of times.

And I'd be willing to bet that Zimmerman got off on the beating.
21
Red herring.
22
@15, pretty strange that the cops would fail to document how beat-up and bloody the valiant self-defending white man was, isn't it?
23
@17 *most* states have some version of stand your ground on the books, either recently, or from their inception. Its not some radical new concept

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doct…

@19 while everyone is running around looking for pitchforks and torches they are forgetting someone needs to be convicted in a criminal case, *beyond* a reasonable doubt.

For people who have issues with people making snap judgments to defend themselves, the tone here sure does make a lot of snap judgements about guilt and innocence.
24
@23,

17/50 states do not equal most. Do I need to explain the definition of "majority" to you?
26
yeah, if he was high this DOES change everything. i shudder to think about getting shot and dying while stoned. poor fucking kid.
27
What happened to calling them stupid fucking credulous hacks?
28
@#24
It's probably the most states by acreage. Or by heads of cattle. Or by the only population that truly matters to these people:guns (not counting those owned by the government). One gun, one vote.
29
"I think the medical report stating that Zimmerman had a broken nose and two black eyes was prepared by his family doctor. Hardly an objective source."

Well, the there's two police photos showing the blooding all over his head, and his bloody nose. Objective enough for you? Take a look:

tinyurl.com/cgt7oeg

Maybe he faked that!
30
i'm willing to accept the following:

martin was high on THC at the time.
martin punched zimmerman, broke his nose and knocked him to the concrete.

but let's be clear:

zimmerman profiled martin, who was not committing a crime at the time. he was walking back to his father's girlfriend's house.
zimmerman followed martin, against the recommendation of 911.
at some point, a confrontation ensued.
zimmerman shot martin at close range.

i contend that martin was the one who justifiably STOOD HIS GROUND and defended himself against an armed assailant. an assailant who was stalking him. his life WAS in mortal peril.

despite being hit, and hit hard, zimmerman's right to use deadly force is negated by the fact that he was THE AGGRESSOR.
31
LEGAL right to use deadly force in SELF-DEFENSE, i should clarify.
32
"the valiant self-defending white man was, isn't it?"

White? Really?

tinyurl.com/6mw9tnt

Why do you deny his Hispanic heritage?

33
It seems like it's been a while since Dan's awarded a Stupid Fucking Credulous Hack Of The Day award. This seems like a sure winner.
34
@30 Profiling is not murder. Maybe, and just maybe, manslaughter. Probably 2nd degree. But because of you braying hysterics calling a Latino man a murderer, he'll probably walk away Scott-free. Well done.
35
Frankly, Zimmerman's story isn't getting much support. The crux of the biscuit, if you ask me, is the revelation that the fatal shot was fired from "intermediate" rather than, say, "close" or "point-blank" range, establish that there was some separation between the two.
It's pretty clear from the evidence that there was a fistfight of some sort. Zimmerman, unsurprisingly, claims that Martin started it. Martin isn't around to give his side of the story.
Zimmerman's account, though, reeks of fabrication. Setting aside his statement that Martin walked up to him and punched him out of nowhere, he's claimed that he only fired after Martin reached for the gun and said something along the lines of "you're going to die today". Really? Does he expect a jury to believe that? The distance the shot traveled in the air really does put to rest his story.
My guess is that a jury will convict him possibly of 2nd degree murder but more likely of manslaughter, and the Martin family will sue the municipality for the disgraceful negligence of the police.
36
@ 5&17

Your generalizations are way off base.

I know this is anecdotal, but I was a national merit scholar and smoked tough in HS, and because I wasn't shot by some dumbfuck coward, I grew up to be a "good" contributing member of society.
37
@34,

If it weren't for us "braying hysterics", he never would have been charged.
38
@36 for further anecdata, you can add this high school full-IB diploma recipient and track and field team captain to your club of young successful stoners.
39
"If it weren't for us "braying hysterics", he never would have been charged."

Not true, the police were planning on charging him with manslaughter, a  charge more likely to stick than the hysterical 'murderer' charge:

Today's NYT: 

"the investigation drawn up on March 13, which included witness interviews and re-interviews, Investigator Christopher F. Serino concluded that “there exists probable cause” to charge Mr. Zimmerman with manslaughter."

"the revelation that the fatal shot was fired from "intermediate" rather than, say, "close" or "point-blank" range,"

Again, not true. Today's NYT:

"documents released Thursday include an autopsy report that showed Mr. Martin had been shot once through the heart at close range."

Facts are a bitch to emotional, braying, hysterics.
40
"the revelation that the fatal shot was fired from "intermediate" rather than, say, "close" or "point-blank" range,"

Wrong your biscuit is soiled.

WashPo:

"The autopsy says the fatal shot was fired from no more than 18 inches away."

THat's less than arm's length (finger tips to your elbow). Easily means Martin was holding Zimmerman when he was shot while he was punching him, especially if you're being attack by someone 6 ft tall.

But keep braying, it's what jackasses do. Should have charged him with manslaughter instead of playing the race card from your now, empty deck.
41
@5 and 17.. You've GOT to be retarded. His pot smoking and thc in his system chips away at his credibility? The credibility of alllll he gets to say regarding his side of the start now that he's dead? What difference does it make if he was a pot smoker or high at the time? What the hell would it even matter if he'd been high on crack or meth or anything else at the time? Makes 0 difference in what happened. He was still shot and killed while carrying A DRINK AND CANDY ON THE WAY TO
HIS DADS GIRLFRIENDS PLACE. A human life was taken for no good reason.
If you can't see that and you honestly think pot is a justifiable reason for someone to be killed then YOU are what's wrong with people these days.
42
Dominic,
I'm afraid Zimmerman will walk. I just read about the results of the autopsy in the NYT.

For the record, I wanted Zimmerman arrested and tried. I believe Neighborhood Watches and the Florida law are foolish. And, finally the Sanford, FL Police Dept. fouled up badly (I read the piece in the NYT last night).

That said, I would even believe he will be released prior to a trial as the case against him is slowly crumbling. There isn't a violation of Martin's Civil Rights case as well. I think the Feds will drop it. Zimmerman has never changed his story and never denied killing Martin. He never attempted to leave Florida. That's not a defense of Zimmerman. But, I simply don't think any jury will convict him. Martin is no Emmett Till. He is far more complex of a character for better or for worse.

Look, Martin according to you "a boy" and according to ABC "the 17-year-old" is now a tragic lightening rod of a figure. It is most unfortunate that he was killed. But, his parents will have to seek redress in a civil court. And, I only hope Florida and the rest of the country remain calm.
43
I know exactly what happened!

George Zimmerman viciously headbutted himself towards the innocent Trayvon Martin, who had extended his fists and locked his arm in a self defense pose, explaining the broken skin on Martin's knuckles, and George Zimmerman's busted ass face.

/Sarcasm.

I understand why people were so upset with the case at first: they filled in the blanks with what they know about race in America. Unfortunately, reality and facts have little to do with the narrative spun up by the media, and now the outrage falls flat on its face.

Will Spike Lee tweet the address of the coroner now?
44
Stuff you could find easily:

CNN reports
Toxicology tests found elements of the drug in the teenager's chest blood -- 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH)
This has no apparent relevance to interpretation of the incident. Also
Martin died from a gunshot wounded to chest fired from "intermediate range" -- within 36 inches.
This sheds no new light.

And also, too, you clearly mean nanograms, not milligrams. (One mg = 1,000,000 ng's)
45
Alright, the Fox News infiltration at ABC is complete!
46
@39-40: The distance between their torsos was at least 30 inches, assuming that Zimmerman had any idea what he was doing with the gun. Remember, in order to fire a gun accurately, you can't just point your hand; you have to point your forearm too. Which means that Zimmerman's forearm was pointed at Martin.
If the gun had been fired at point-blank range, it would have supported Zimmerman's story of a close grappling fight, as such aiming isn't as necessary when you can brace the gun against the surface you're firing into.
But go ahead. CLEARLY, you have information the rest of us aren't privy to.
47

Trayvon had powder burns on his clothes and body the gun was so close. Orlando Sentinel:

"Trayvon’s autopsy showed that he died of a shot to the heart and that the gun was so close, it had left gunpowder burns on his skin.
Florida Department of Law Enforcement firearms expert Amy Siewert examined Trayvon’s gray sweat shirt and gray hoodie for powder burns and wrote that she found them on both garments, prompting her to conclude that the muzzle of the gun was touching them when Zimmerman pulled the trigger."
48
"Remember, in order to fire a gun accurately, you can't just point your hand; you have to point your forearm too"

You've shot targets with a hand gun at less than 18 inches, the maximum distance the actual report claims the gun was fired at? Something tells me you've never held and fired a gun. A little too 'butch' for a queen from Evanston.
49
I lost count of how many times I've been high decades ago.

The more THC in my system = less likely I'd be to pick a fight with anyone. Or even respond if someone tries to pick a fight with me.
50
@46, Venomlash, your idea of how a gun works is based on olympic target shooting. When people are grappling and fighting, the mechanics are wildly different.

Just youtube search "force on force training". Traditionally, the go-to stance for contact distance shooting is support hand comes up to the head to shield it, strong hand with handgun is almost touching chest, with elbow high and back. With this stance it is quite possible to shoot someone even if they are laying on top of you. You don't have to be taught this in a class (though it frequently is), it is natural human response if you've got a firearm for self defense and someone is really, really close to you.

The narrative, according to Zimmerman, is that Martin was on top of him beating him when he shot him. The facts as reported are consistent with that narrative.
51
@50
"The facts as reported are consistent with that narrative."

No. In the situation you describe wouldn't the gun be in contact with Martin?

"The narrative, according to Zimmerman, is that Martin was on top of him beating him when he shot him."

No, not just "beating" him. The claim was that Martin was hitting Zimmerman's head against the ground (sidewalk? road?). Which would put them at an angle to each other. Particularly since Zimmerman had very short hair.

Not to mention that Zimmerman claims that Martin saw Zimmerman's gun (at night) at Zimmerman's waistband.

Each of those claims is individually plausible but taken together do not sound reasonable.

@43
"George Zimmerman viciously headbutted himself towards the innocent Trayvon Martin, who had extended his fists and locked his arm in a self defense pose, explaining the broken skin on Martin's knuckles, and George Zimmerman's busted ass face."

Again, Zimmerman did not appear very damaged in the video immediately following the shooting. But the next day he shows up at the doctor's office with injuries.

Meanwhile, Martin (who is dead) has only a minor (1/4 inch) abrasion on one hand.
52
I love how people say that Zimmerman's story was bullshit, so they completely construct their own made-up story that is unsupported by any evidence.

Zimmerman had a busted nose and deep cuts on the back of his head, according to photographic evidence and medical reports. Unless you have evidence he did this himself, you are talking out of your ass. Witnesses saw a fight, both men escalated the event, get over it. He obviously did not deserve what happened, but Martin was not a perfect little angel, why is this so hard to accept?

Judging distance from a gunshot wound is not an exact science, and roughly 30 inches is still considered close range from a combat perspective. I can stab a man from 30 inches away, and almost slap him. I do not think this really proves much of anything, and claiming this bit of data completely invalidates Zimmerman's story is just false.

The court has the evidence, let them decide. Also, keep in mind that hysterical internet posting had nothing to do with the decision to charge Zimmerman.
53
@52
"He obviously did not deserve what happened, but Martin was not a perfect little angel, why is this so hard to accept?"

Where, exactly, do you see people claiming that Martin was "a perfect little angel"?

"Judging distance from a gunshot wound is not an exact science, and roughly 30 inches is still considered close range from a combat perspective."

Get a yard stick. Mark off 30 inches.
Then get a friend to hold you down.
You will see how far away 30 inches is.

"Also, keep in mind that hysterical internet posting had nothing to do with the decision to charge Zimmerman."

It would appear that the coverage has had something to do with that decision.
Initially, Zimmerman was allowed to go free with no charges.
54
@53: Because people absolutely refuse to accept that maybe Martin had anything to do with what happened to him, I was using hyperbole to make a point. I do not understand the fierce reluctance to entertain the idea that he also escalated the event.

Part of the point is that in forensics, "intermediate range" is 8 inches to 42 inches, and narrowing this down to an exact number is usually quite impossible. Quite frankly, the evidence is likely only stating that the gun was between 8 and 42 inches away. This is why I said that this piece of evidence really proves very little in the overall narrative.

The police let Zimmerman go that night because the DA essentially knew there was not enough evidence to charge him. The police at the scene wanted to arrest him, they were rightfully told not to. In America, we do not arrest people hoping that evidence will turn up eventually, or just because we do not like them. It is called due process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process

When they thought they had a case, they charged him, just like any other criminal trial ever.
55
@54 You keep neglecting one important logical determinant. Zimmerman sought out and stalked Martin. Martin was not armed. Zimmerman was. Martin was not doing anything wrong when Zimmerman began following him. Even the fucking police operator told Zimmerman to back off.

Regardless of the outcome, how do you blame Martin for initiating the confrontation? Given Zimmerman's apparent bigotry (and presumable paranoia) in profiling Martin (and the gun in his hand), every presumption is there that he was ready to pull the trigger at the least provocation or resistance.

To sum up:
1) Martin was minding his own business.
2) Zimmerman was looking for trouble.
3) Martin was not approaching Zimmerman. Zimmerman was stalking him.
4) "Stand your ground" can't possibly apply, as Zimmerman's "ground" was moving towards Martin, armed and aggressive.
56
So when Zimmerman is freed because the prosecutors over reached, are they going to burn down Korean businesses again?
57
@54
"Because people absolutely refuse to accept that maybe Martin had anything to do with what happened to him, I was using hyperbole to make a point."

Martin in dead.
Dead.
Can you drop the "hyperbole" and just stick to the facts?

"Part of the point is that in forensics, "intermediate range" is 8 inches to 42 inches, and narrowing this down to an exact number is usually quite impossible."

I guess that depends upon your definition of "exact number".
They have the gun.
They have the ammo.
They have the corpse.
A few test firings should be sufficient to narrow that range down.

Or are you back to "hyperbole" again?

Like I said before:
Get a yard stick. Mark off 30 inches.
Then get a friend to hold you down.
You will see how far away 30 inches is.
58
@55: Until the gun was fired, Zimmerman committed no aggressive or illegal act. What he was doing is 100% legal, and not stalking by a legal definition. I am not saying it is right, but it was not illegal. Therefore from a legal perspective, if Martin did attack Zimmerman as the evidence suggests, Martin was the aggressor. If you read up on "Stand Your Ground" and read through the eyewitness reports, you will see that point four up there is incorrect.

Also, many people carry guns who do not want to fire them. Zimmerman may or may not be this kind of man, but neither you or I can presume any way on that. He seems to me to be a sad little man on a power trip, but that is also not illegal.

@57: Dude, you need to learn about how science works. Even if they have the gun/ammo/body they can still not narrow down the distance to an exact number, due to the thousands of variables in play in the real world. This is why your yardstick test is irrelavent.

I know it works here, but a person can not just get on the stand in a courthouse and spout uninformed bullshit.

Zimmerman is a horrid and insecure little asshole who at least deserves prison for what he did. But we still have to prove beyond reasonable doubt, with evidence, that he committed 2nd degree murder. By the letter of the shitty, shitty law that protects him, he likely did not commit 2nd degree murder, possibly manslaughter. Sad but true.
59
The ABC report is an outstanding example showing how one can manipulate statistics to prove an assertion. I suspect, without even knowing him, if Traynor has smoked a bowl walking TO the store, he'd of had a clearer mind and gotten far out of Zimmerman's way before it became a confrontation. Trace amounts of THC suggest it'd been awhile since Traynor indulged. I propose then it was the NOT smoking grass that contributed to Traynor's death.
60
Theodor: you'll use any rhetorical as your disposal to win an argument. What a scumbag...
61
Theodor: you'll use any rhetorical trick at your disposal to win an argument. What a scumbag...
62
@58 "Until the gun was fired, Zimmerman committed no aggressive or illegal act."

I would respectfully submit that you are incorrect. Zimmerman identified a perceived danger. He called the police. They told him they would respond and he was to back off. When he refused, he became a vigilante, de facto and de jure. Attempting to accost Martin was at the very least, illegal arrest, at the worst, kidnapping.

What do you call the thing where someone kills someone during the commission, or attempted commission, of a crime?
63
@62: You have said nothing that is really true there. I do not know any other way to put it.

Please point out the legal statute that dictates Zimmerman's following of Martin was illegal. Keep in mind that legally speaking, stalking is repeated harrassment, not just one instance.

Also, please demonstrate your evidence that shows Zimmerman wanted to arrest or kidnap Martin.
64
The code of the west says....you never shoot an unarm man. Zimmerman is guilty. Neither Matt Dillion or Chester on Gunsmoke would tolerate shootin' any unarmed man. Don't most cops carry a throw down, just in case they err and shoot an unarmed pot smoker. Trayvon was unarmed and shot dead. This is why people sang songs about "don't take your guns to town son, leave your guns at home Bill". Guns and Religion only bring trouble.
65
Even if Trayvon was baked, how would that justify him being shot down by George? Not computing.
66
Bring me 100 17 year old boys from any area of this country & I'll show you 50-75 kids with "trace amounts" of THC in their system. This is complete & utter bullshit, a non-story.
67
@65
Because the people claiming such subscribe to the "just world hypothesis".
If a black teenager is killed ... he did SOMETHING that brought it upon himself.
Somehow, some way, in some fashion he is guilty of something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_…
68
Even if he was high on weed, all the LESS reason to believe he was any sort of aggressor, as anyone who has been on/near weed can attest to (in other words, every single American outside Salt Lake City, and a few inside as well).
69
@68 If smoking a blunt reduced violence the Rainier Vally would be gods paradise instead of Seattle's murder ward.
70
"The code of the west says....you never shoot an unarm man. Zimmerman is guilty"

Guilty of what? Murder? Nope. 2nd degree manslaughter? Maybe.

Btw your code is bullshit. If someone jumps you and starts pounding on you, do you want to risk them taking your legally owned firearm and using it on you? Nope. And that'll be Zimmerman's defense.

Should have not been hysterics calling this murder because now he's gonna walk. No doubt the rioters will target Koreans and asians again.
71
I wanna see Jeb Bushs' drug screen
72
@71 If he's stupid enough to jump someone with a legally owned firearm and start pounding his head into the pavement, you may well.
73
All the people saying that the autopsy report is consistent with Zimmerman's story need to read it again. The bullet wound went directly from ventral to dorsal, very little angling. What this means is that the barrel of the gun was approximately normal to the plane of Martin's chest when it was fired. If, at the time, Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him up, the bullet path would likely have had an upward inclination.
74
@73 You get CSI up there in Evanston?

Zimmerman will be a free man. Should have gone for 2nd degree manslaughter. Koreans and hispanics had better lock up their businesses and get armed when the verdict comes down and a bucket load of stupid hits the streets.
75
@74: Never watched CSI in my life. I do know my Newtonian mechanics, physiology, and geometry, though.
76
@70 My advise to you still is... to leave your gun at home. Grow and become less insecure. My code is not bull shit.
77
@76 I live north of the Ship Canal. I don't need nor own a gun. My code is not bullshit either.
78
Someone smoke weed and they deserve to die?? pretty ignorant if you ask me to give props to the shooter!!! No one deserves to die, weve all gone through adolesence and made poor choices but you live and learn. Trayvon, doesnt have that option.

Please wait...

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