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Bitch, get off the Internet! If you can't participate in the circle jerk fair and square, you don't deserve to be here!
Not to say they don't exist however.
That seems like an incredibly dense statement even for you.
"But I'm sure some wise (male) Slog commenter will explain to me how these women could've avoided their brutal gang rapes or, better yet, what they did to provoke these men into gang raping them."
Yes, the problem is that they are male, not that they're assholes.
@8 Yes, they are assholes, but they are also always male. The problem is more about Misogyny then it is about people being assholes because they probably don't think they are being an asshole. They're just "saying what everyone is thinking!"
Maybe that isn't what you meant, but I'll maintain that it's a fair reading of your statement, given the context of this conversation.
Horrible situation.
But to take the wording literally, you'd really have to have some really fucked up ideas--the men's rights kinds of ideas, like @19 says.
Then, perhaps, repeat perhaps, slogger comments guide the discussion into a more meaningful direction that gives justice to the underlying story.
1. That it's necessary to point out that not all men are assholes, which implies that you think some of us are so stupid that we need to have that pointed out.
2. That some individuals, men specifically, are so divorced from their cultural contexts that they are not part of a culture that creates acceptance of and tolerance for gross abuses of women's basic humanity.
The first is condescending, hence "mansplaining," and the second displays the very maddening sense of entitlement that you don't have to think about rape culture, because you think you are not an asshole.
Now, I wouldn't assume that every man who left such a comment did it out of a sense of blaming women for getting into those situations in the first place, but the fact of the matter is that most of those situations are pretty common, everyday sorts of things. If these same situations led to muggings, there would be much more of an outcry and a desire to make things safer.
@ 12 spoke out against Cienna's comment; and @ 17 answered it. Clearly, @ 17 was reminded of the "men's rights" movement which, aside from the issue of custody of children after divorce, is largely a bunch of babies who want to see women leave men alooooooone. They don't like hearing all those uppity women complain about all the things that make life harder for women than men (such as rape).
Perhaps @ 17 jumped to conclusions. Perhaps not - again, given the context, it's a fair way to read @ 12.
When I claimed I'd blame the rapists for rapes over internet trolls, people immediately assumed I was excluding all others from blame. So yeah, I do think some of you are so stupid you need to have that pointed out.
You're indicating in some of your comments that you regard this thread as one that stands on its own. But it is actually a continuation of related threads posted over the past couple of days. Cienna wasn't "trolling," she was addressing some of the male commenters from those threads.
And that circles right back to the idea of being privileged without even knowing it.
So can we just get off of this circle jerk and admit that sexism is wrong despite who it is directed against, and that sexism directed towards anyone promotes an environment where sexism is tolerated in general?
Isn't the whole point supposed to be that gender does not matter?
I'll state for the record, then: I fully believe that tolerance for gross abuses of anybody's (women's in particular) basic humanity is a problem that everyone needs to face.
Shutting people out of that conversation by painting large groups with the same brush is not conducive towards that effort.
Indeed; often people don't see past "my friend's ex-wife really hosed him in the divorce." The statistics on gender and violence in that article are shocking, and really ought to be used to open any discussion on the issue.
Making arguments about correlation vs causation while ignoring context was also pretty apparent. If you assume that Cienna's one "(male)" little addition meant that she was casting every single male commenter as misogynistic pieces of shit means that you are clearly ignoring such context.
I wasn't asking you.
(Kidding, of course. Thanks for the input.)
Also, here's just one quick article I found that maybe gives you a broader perspective on the context in which "dudes-telling-women-how-they-should-talk-about-stuff" is such a hot-button issue: http://jezebel.com/5917887/when-theres-s…
I give you a lot of credit for sticking around to have this discussion.
All I said was that sexism was wrong, regardless of gender, and even that is met with resistance and accusations of ignorance. I see no hope in eliminating sexism when the answer to sexism seems to be more sexism.
Thanks for proving my point.
(Great. Now I just proved that girls can't do math.)
And I respectfully disagree. You introduced a hypothetical situation in which the gender roles were reversed to make a point, but that situation is not realistic. Why not? Because only a sexist male could make such a statement. But any woman, sexists or not, can say what Cienna wrote.
Sorry if you think this is a circle jerk, but it actually is not; ironically, your comments highlight why.
They aren't.
In a perfect world we would address all equality instead of working with scales of what's worst and moving from there.
This world aint perfect and thus we prioritize the worst offenses.
Thank you. I'm just too fucking tired to even try with him today. Honestly men like him, men of essentially good will, whose lives are so wrapped in cotton wool that they might as well be living in an episode of My Little Pony...... They make me want to weep from exhaustion and fear.
So, thank you.
6 men with an iron bar are not match for a girl with a Glock 19.
I have to admit though I've never ran into sexism aimed at me. Hell, I went to TESC and took some classes that were pretty heavy in feminist theory. When you hear about the imbalance of power between men and women, it's pretty easy to look around and go "well, no duh". At the end of the day, it's easy to remember some dudes are blissfully unaware misogynists and others are working on treating people as people.
I find the 'men's rights' stuff pretty dumb. The deck is already stacked in your favor. Why do you need more?
FAT.
sigh....................
Signed,
A woman and gun owner.
Shall we explore?
"I'm actually pleased to see Cienna sticking to topics she's qualified to talk about. A hen that love french fries. That about sums it up"
"Then who is the ugly bitch carrying [the chicken]?"
"Fuck you cunt. you're just a very cheap copy of Ciennna anyway. Except even more ragged out. From your posts today I assume youâre having a very heavy flow day? Why don't you do us all a favor and take a hand full of Valium and lay down for a while?"
There. Some context.
@58 - Probably the most irrelevant and stupid thing you've said in days.
@62 - There is nothing particularly sensational about the last sentence in Cienna's post. Your comment is amazingly obtuse, and provides the exact meaningless discussion you allegedly decry ("nonetheless..."). Also, the previous 61 comments prove you quite wrong.
I'm somewhat surprised to see Mr. Gorath being as blind as he is to sexual politics, he's usually rather level headed. But then perhaps I've missed the conversations about sexism that have taken place previously.
Onward...
Right. To have a "real" discussion let's instead revolve the entire thread around one attention-whoring dipshit's feelings, and the rest of it around the opinions of a few talkative dudes and the irrelevant points they're are trying to make. God forbid a conversation on rape of women focus on something other than the male manly men's opinions.
That's 62's point, I think. Trollbaiting will only turn the discussion off-topic.
Anyway, he generally knows to behave himself, and he has since then. The Stranger, out of the typically misguided sense of fairness common to those of us on the left, probably won't ban him unless he degenerates to making those comments regularly.
Also, if they ban YGBKM for those remarks, Fnarf has been just as bad on occasion, including when he tells 5280 to kill himself, which he did just yesterday - and not for the first time IIRC. He would have to go, too, if they're going to be fair about it. I can't see that happening, though.
Read before you post. You look smarter when you do.
The United States has the worldâs highest rape rate of all countries that publish such data- 13 times higher than England and more than 20 times higher than Japan (12).
An American woman is 10 times more likely to be raped than to die in a car crash (13).
61% of rape victims are females under the age of 18 (14).
Contrary to common belief that violent crime rates are notably lower in rural areas, a recent analysis of location data collected for the 1999 National Womenâs Study found that 10.1% of women living in rural areas had experienced a completed rape as compared to 13.6% of women living in urban and suburban communitiesâhardly a notably lower rate.
Lewis, S. 2003. Unspoken Crimes: Sexual Assault in Rural America, Enola, PA: National Sexual Violence Resource Center