Russian democracy: How much of it is Russian, and how much of it is democracy?

it's things like this that make me furious when people decide to shit all over "socialism" because Russia. I'm pretty sure their society was fucked long before Lenin picked up a copy of Das Kapital. and it remains fucked now that the Soviet Union collapsed.

Just remember: 20 years ago, the GHWB administration (and, later, the Clintons) in its infinite wisdom decided that the best thing they could do for the emerging post-soviet Russian state was to apply "shock therapy" and back the wildly unpopular and incompetent Boris Yeltsin, while eliminating services that people depended on and flogging off state assets to the highest bidder, which in all cases was organized crime.

And now, 20 years later, we are shocked, shocked that anything having even the slightest whiff of western liberal values is about as popular as smallpox in modern Russia.

What's happening to the nascent gay rights movement there is a small symptom of a much larger problem. Russia is a gangster state, and that's precisely the outcome that a bipartisan consensus of the best and brightest in Washington, DC wanted. Enjoy!

@ 6, to be fair, Russia's issues were much larger than anything Yeltsin, or anybody else, could address, even if they did it honestly. Laying all that at the door of American foreign policy is beyond credible.

What's happening to Russia's nascent gay rights movement is scapegoating, a long favored tactic of repressive Russian regimes to distract the populace away from the shitty state of affairs. Your life sucks? 100 years ago, beating up Jews was a great way to get out some frustration, the best part being that you wouldn't have to go to jail. Well, now that you can't do that to Jews without getting the whole world on your ass, gays are the next best thing.

Er, make that @ 5.

I was in Russia briefly in the early 90's when the Soviet anti-gay laws were first repealed (Article 121) and the first gay clubs opened. It was an amazingly exciting time, when the first gay clubs and bars opened in St. Petersburg and Moscow, and the first gay-pride parade took place in St.P. The rest of Russia, of course, was pretty immune to these changes at large, however, individuals may have felt more tolerant. I've been all over Russia since, and while on a personal level people may not have negative feelings towards gays, there is lately a very significant increase in government pressure to deny LGBT any rights, and to actively oppress them as an "abnormality" coming from "Western culture". Sadly in the past few years they have targeted gays and lesbians (often physically in front of bars or clubs), in tandem with activists from the Orthodox Church and with the support of the support of the police. I'm not sure protesting at the Seattle consulate will do much; they are mainly responsible for tourist visas, support for Russian citizens, and local Russia-friendly events. The real change is going to happen in Russia, and it's going to be a really long slog. There is a lot to fight with the current legislation, and sadly, it will probably pass... But I hope that LGBT activists will still go out and fight,,, Otherwise we loose everything for gay rights in Russia, as long as Putin is in power...

Once again, the root of the problem?

Religion.

Yep- a loving god and its followers cause human misery to increase. News at 6:00.

You're not going to get up to the 25th floor of One Union Square for your zap, but the home of the Russian Consul-General is in Madison Park.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Hyde…

George Kennan was probably the American who best understood Russians. 65 years ago he wote an article, later enlarged into a book, based on a lifetime of analysis and his service as ambassador to the USSR. The short version was: Look to Russian history, not Communist theory, to understand the USSR. Likewise, look to Russian history to understand modern Russia. It's not pretty; it's bigotted, intolerant, and murderous. It may be Russian, but it sure ain't democracy.

These activists are so brave, I don't think I could do what they do. I hope these laws are replealed.What a corrupt, awful place to live in. You get murdered or beaten up for questioning corrupt bureaucrats, it really is a gangster state.

That place just keeps getting scarier and scarier.

Watching Russia go retrograde is fairly disheartening.