Which is all too bad, because it's the best looking Arena in Uhmurka. It's a freaking Modernist Icon.

What's with the Seattle/Bellevue Us/Them??

If Key Arena is in its golden years, then Mercer Street and Memorial Stadium needs to be taken out to the barn and shot, followed by a viking funeral.

Blethen can pay for his own Dead Dog Arena ...

Lesson? Don't build other people's arenas.

@ 3, you really made me laugh out loud. Well done.

It wasn't a "catastrophic roof collapse", it was a bunch of shitty acoustic ceiling tiles that weren't glued in properly combined with average leaks. The building didn't last because is was poorly architected, not because it was falling down. Tastes change indeed.

"It may seem wasteful to replace these giant structures every three decades or so, but it's long been the norm. Tastes change and buildings deteriorate."

May seem wasteful? No, asshole it IS wasteful. But because it's the "norm" that makes it ok in your book? Seriously? And because tastes change and buildings require upkeep they should be torn down? By that logic, we shouldn't have any old buildings at all. But guess what? Tastes also change back, and upkeep is cheaper and much more "green" than tearing down and rebuilding. Key Arena is beautiful, architecturally significant and a perfectly fine stadium.

> "we will be left with the same aging, empty arena at the Seattle Center that we'd be left with should we build an arena in Sodo, but with Bellevue drawing all the business across the lake instead of us profiting off it here in Seattle"

Fucking great. Send that shit to bellevue. I don't give two squirts of piss about "lost business" when the cost is making lower queen anne hell on earth again and sinking a bunch of public money into a giant project that'll never pay for itself. Holy fucking shit, we're going to sell fewer $20 parking spaces and Polish Dogs! Oh God, the businesses around Seattle Center are going to have to settle for the neighborhood being merely Very Crowded like normal instead of Ridiculously And Insufferably Crowded a couple nights a week!

@2 Sodo arena critics argue that it will leave the city owning an unprofitable underused KeyArena. My point is, that's going to happen regardless, and thus shouldn't really be factored into the decision.

So, if we know that the lifespan of these things is only 30 years, and realistically only 15 (the length of time before the Key was abandoned by its only top-level tenant), then we can say with some certainty that whatever piece of shit gets built in Sodo will be needing to be gone by, say, 2030. So explain to me again how that proves we should do it?

If you walk down the same dark alley every night, and every night you get mugged there, that's not a feature. It seems more sensible to start going a different way.

What exactly is wrong with us that we can't get more than fifteen years out of one, and only one, kind of building anymore? Are we going to have to tear down the downtown library in six years? The Smith Tower is still there; why hasn't it been replaced? The Pantheon is still in regular use after almost 1900 years; when are they going to tear that ratty old thing down and some Frank Gehry up in that shit, anyways?

Fenway Park and Wrigley Field say "hi", BTW.

@Fnarf, you can either tear it down or renovate every 20-30 years. You don't have much of a choice in the matter. Fenway has been renovated multiple times as has Wrigley. Wrigley is just about to undergo a new massive renovation ($500M which could basically build a whole new park). At a certain point the cost of upkeep without doing the renovation just becomes too high.

Goldy, isn't your gig sucking McGinn's schwantz enough, without volunteering for a post-coitus interruptus engagement with Chris Hansen?

@ 8, I challenge your blanket assertion that keeping old buildings is green. All things being equal, old buildings are much less energy efficient than new ones.

@ 11's remarks reminds me that the fact that these stadia and arenas are being torn down after 30 years has nothing to do with their "lifespan." It was all about economics; specifically, that sports teams realized that getting new buildings, with new deals and plenty of luxury boxes, was a cash cow. Basically, they abandoned arenas that could well have lasted a hundred years, as Wrigley and Fenway have.

But Goldy isn't wrong to say that 30 years is their lifespan*. Like it or not, how buildings are used changes over time, and what was perfect in one decade is inadequate later. Fnarf mentions libraries. Well, you know all those neat little Carnegie libraries? How many are still being used as libraries? And of those, how many are overcrowded hellholes completely unsuited to modern use?

None of this is to take a pro or anti arena side (I don't live there anymore, I have no dog in the fight), but it seems that people have to acknowledge that things change, and that Fenway, Wrigley, and even Dodger Stadium are outliers. Buildings do get torn down all the time, even when they're not that old.

* Fnarf is essentially incorrect in stating that the lifespan is 15 years - the case of Key Arena is not typical, and would doubtless still be in use if it weren't for the push for new stadiums and arenas that began 20 years ago.

@14: OK, I guess I should have said it's *almost* always greener to retrofit than rebuild: http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/articl…

@1 -- Arenas are evolving into Transformers. A proposed structure for Atlanta might earn the nickname Oculus Prime.

#14 and are you serious about libraries? What a bizarre type of building to use as an example. So many of the greatest libraries in the world are in very old buildings. And to answer your question, half the Carnegie libraries are still in use as libraries. You may think they are hell holes, but communities that have them seem to value them highly.

I for one would love to see some serious attention given to making the Seattle Center the awesome place I remember it being as a two year old. Since then it's been all downhill.

@17, yeah, but even the best library doesn't have luxury boxes with waiter service and valet parking. Can you even get Dom Perignon in a fucking library? I DON'T THINK SO.

@ 17, I am serious about libraries. I love the old Carnegie libraries, too. Denver has several. I also love Denver's Broadway Branch (not a Carnegie library, but about the same size as most I've seen). It's a mid-mod classic. But it's unusable in 2013 - cram-packed with no room for the staff, literally. They "office" is a table in the break room, and only one other person can sit there at break time. In that respect, it reminds me of Seattle's Fremont branch. Besides being crowded, it also has to close whenever it gets over 90 degrees. (By contrast, an actual Carnegie library is in a neighborhood not patronized at all. It's a beautiful building, but what use is it?) If 50% of them still being in use demonstrates that they're still valued by their communities, the half that closed ceased serving theirs in a meaningful way at some point.

Buildings have to be used. They can't just be visually pleasing. There are tons of beautiful old school buildings around here, and most are simply unsuitable for modern education. But people scream bloody murder when the district tries to close one in favor of a new building that can meet modern needs.

So it is with arenas. Granted, I firmly believe that the idea that places like Key Arena are inadequate is rooted firmly in the fact that the old ones are inadequate for making money for teams, and actually has almost nothing to do with their suitability to present major league sporting events. But that ship has sailed. Hell, even the junior league Thunderbirds don't play there anymore.

Whether Goldy's argument (that King County is inevitably getting a new arena) is true or not, Key Arena's days are numbered. Even the junior-level Western Hockey League squad called the Thunderbirds have abandoned it. If major touring bands are routinely skipping it in favor of the Tacoma Dome, what good is it to save Key Arena?

@13

I'm sure McGinn will give you the opportunity to suck his dick if you ask nicely.

And if mercer and memorial need to shot, McCaw (aka The Opera House, aka The Civic Auditorium) is a zombie.

Memorial Stadium is an aging dump. The Mercer Arena is now uninhabitable. Goldy's right, Key Arena is going away one way or another.

Why not put a new kickass high school football/soccer stadium/outdoor concert facility in, replacing Memorial Stadium and the Mercer Arena? And then once you get the Key/Sodo large arena situation figured out, put in a smaller arena for HS basketball, small concerts, etc, kind of what Mercer Arena used to be. Add Goldy's old "kickass playground" idea from horsessass.org and then you've got a much more useable public space.

And I enjoy people complaining about the lifespan of arenas and stadiums. Go back 30 years. Do you think that this area looks anything like it did then? The idea that stadiums and arenas are somehow immune from the changes we see in every other type of building is hilarious.

The Mercer Arena was converted into rehearsal space for the opera in 2007. The Opera House was completely renovated in 2002.

Memorial Stadium is in pretty bad shape. I hope one of the proposals to convert it into a Memorial ampitheater will happen soon.

I would hope that something could be done with Key Arena keeping the iconic arches, but completely changing the inside of the building.

@14, I thought the Mercer arena was being held for the PNB to buy in the future... something about assembling stages there.

But, really, the idea that the city is going to want to own this 30 year old arena at the end of Hansen's lease is a farce... as is a promise by his shell company to buy the property back.

Seattle/King County will own the land Hansen sells them before the place is built... counting appreciated value 30 years down the road is a joke.

KeyArena's days may be numbered, but that doesn't mean Seattle should turn its back on the public playground they created at the Seattle Center and putting the space to best use. It's a far more attractive downtown arena land space than SoDo is.

#21, I'd never do the quality job Goldy's been doing.

@ 25, agreed. But there are still all the practical limitations to running an arena at that location (particularly parking & transit). People will be less likely to come to attractions if it takes them an hour to get from the Mercer exit to a parking space, and another hour to get back to the freeway.

Why are you trying to kill a civic asset that employs union labor, Goldy?

@29 And why are you a dishonest dickbag? ArenaCo has agreed to make the Sodo arena a union shop, and the teamsters, stagehands, and concessions workers unions have all endorsed it.

You still have not answered the question. The unions want to preserve Key under any circumstances to keep those jobs. You are delcaring that effort null and void, and say that a promise from Chris Hansen for a deal that for all practical purposes hasn't happened is just as good as a job in hand. You are the dick. You are a classic example of "ten degrees to the right of center if it affects you personally".

Nothing I say here compares to your shillery for the neolib wing of the local Democratic party. ArenaCo has not agreed to make the SoDo arena a union shop. In fact, ArenaCo doesn't even exist as a real entity. For all purposes neither does your ill fated arena deal. But you are an apologist for liars like Ballmer, Hansen, Dow Constantine, and Mke McGinn. You suck balls hard, down to flesh colored raisins.

Re: Bellevue Arena

Who the hell is going to pay for it? Those eastside developers talk a good game of wanting to build an arena, but when it comes to paying for it, they'll all look at each other for the funds, which none of them will put forward, followed by those developer tightwads looking at King County and Olympia, who will tell them build your arena with private dollars only or go screw yourself.