Depressing, but you still sound chirpy Paul. I like the cute bone metaphor.

Until they lose in 2014 due to the country knowing who is behind this mess.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/vu…

The problem is that too many democrats, the 'corporate' democrats (aka the moderates which Barack Obama represents), are all too happy to downsize government services and functions and empower (and enrich) the private sector, particularly the 1 percenters. These center right pols either identify with or have been bought off by Wall Street or other large corporate interests. In many ways they are more like the historical republican party than historical democrat party, policy wise but because of the extreme racism and nativism that animates much of the current republican party, identify themselves as Democrats. It seems to me that they spend most of their political energy either misleading the democratic base about whose interest they are really forwarding, or scolding these increasingly disillusioned and frustrated voters to get on with their corporate agenda.

My representative, Denny Heck, is a good example of this.

Republicans have been getting pretty much everything they wanted for the last 30+ years. Nice for you to wake up this late in the game. What are you going to do about it? Wet yourself when Hillary announces her candidacy?

Here's the thing, Paul. To the teabaggers, they don't feel like they've won because we haven't cried "uncle." Bullies don't just want to win; they want their victims to cry in pain and humiliate themselves. To the teabaggers, they won't win until the rest of America submits.

And therein lies their eventual downfall. Because we're all adults, all equal under the law, and when push comes to shove, most of us like having our government function. They think they're winning, but just as this bit them in the ass in the '90s, it will kick them to the curb in the '10s. And eventually we'll have adults running the country once again.

This is overreach, and that's a major understatement. Just watch.

This is what happens when people sit-out mid term elections instead of voting. Because old white racist shit for brains always vote!

@6 yes, I agree, but the point of Paul's post, as I read it, is that at this time, Paul Ryan and the teabaggers have won the economic policy debate. The senate and the president, without much of a fight and sometimes all to happily going along, have already adopted much of the extreme right budget. It doesn't matter if the teabaggers get kicked to the curb now or in some future election, they've already changed the baseline. Their preferred policy for the most part is now the new normal. It is just a matter of time for the major federal programs they've targeted for extinction (Medicare, medicaid, Social Security and a host of other programs that primarily help the poor and middle class) are 'reformed' to reflect this new normal. Remember, Obama has been and continues to be one of the biggest cheerleaders for cutting Social Security benefits (i.e. adopting the chained CPI). I don't hear any influential democrat arguing for increasing the federal budget at this point.

Paul is right. Basically they did win. And they won because of the simple fact of social entropy: It's ALWAYS easier to destroy than to build. Always.

Americans had no real understanding of the damage inflicted by the Bush administration. What Bush did was start a slow motion collapse of government and what Americans knew to be the economy. The right is basically stupid as shit and the left is mostly children with no perspective.

Because people could still buy iPhones and shit they thought everything was okay. But it's not okay. The Tea Baggers were just the Coup de grâce.

But not so fast - the left is every bit to blame. Seriously. You STILL hear morons on the left lamenting how Obama was this liar and is this awful tyrant and why cant he fix everything for them... waaaah.

Obama was always a moderate centrist politician. Not a leftist messiah. It's just that under Bush the entire country moved so far right that Attila the Hun looks moderate.

Look. Obama CAN'T fix everything. What he has achieved has been amazing when you actually understand how fucked everything really is.

And the worst problems won't get fixed because half of the left in this country either doesn't vote or acts like petulant children when they do and basically only are "activists" on the internet where it's easy and totally inert. So the right can just keep dismantling all the institutions while the far left screams at progressives and calls the people doing real work "sell-outs."

There is literally no functioning citizen mechanism (Occupy? Fuck that. Don't make me laugh.) with the staying power to give the democrats the legislative ammunition they need to undo all this shit and so they have no motivation or accountability and basically end up polishing the brass on the Titanic.

Yea fuck these racist white people, we NEED to keep the government spending more money that it doesn't have on programs that ultimately support the corporate elite.

@6 -- while they seem to have gotten what they wanted, that's quite different from winning the debate. Convincing someone of your opinion at the point of a loaded gun is not the same as winning them over through logic and reason.

@9 - Why do you ignore that conservative Democrats like Obama (basically a Clintonite) have pushed as hard for deregulation, outsourcing, and privatization (the neoliberal trinity) as Republicans?

@11 but they don't NEED win anybody over with logic and debate. Getting what they want is all that matters.

America has a fundamental misunderstanding of the Far Right's goals. They don't care if they leave 70% of the country a smoking ruin. They want to destroy every post gilded age institution. It's what they want. If you're not rich you're morally weak and deserve to starve. They really believe social darwinism is real.

They honestly believe that they will be able to buy all the clean air and water they want (that the natural environment is somehow magical) and if the rest of use have to eek out a living picking through garbage in favelas - then great. Cheaper labor that will be grateful for any pittance we're paid.

@12 Which deregulation? It's not all the same. Elizabeth Warren is a democrat. Damn. People say "They're all the same!" Bullshit. They are not. This is my point. Anybody falls for that cynical strident bullshit is then handicapped to understanding how work actually gets done in a complicated system.

The far left has this all or nothing, perfect is the enemy of the good, attitude. So basically the far left is useless is a functioning democracy where you need political coalitions that can compromise. They can't raise the money to get elected because they act like children so then they can't pass the laws to extricate money from the system in the first place. The right has no such compunctions in getting their agenda.

The only people able to function in government are the few besieged moderates and the right wing who just destroy. If I was a corporation of course I'd give money to the people who are going to improve my bottom line. What corporation is going to give money the far left when they talk impossible bullshit about nationalizing companies and won't compromise?

Yes. Most democrats are corporatists. So what. Corporations are not inherently bad. They employ most of the country and the western world. And not all deregulation is the same. And I'd take some deregulation and have an operating government that has healthcare reforms. Baby steps, man.

Building institutions takes time. Change those institutions for the better takes time. Destruction happens with the snap of a finger.

@10 No, dude. Fuck you and the wave of right-wing stupidity you rode in on.

At some point, not sure when that is, the electorate will stop tasping themselves on fox news and right-wing drivel radio and look around and see that we're being surpassed by countries we think of as third-world. Whenever that happens, if we haven't devolved into a completely fascist society by then, things just might turn around.

"Tax and spend" is a wonderful epithet the way the right wing has marketed it. But, you know, that's what government does. On purpose. For us. To do stuff. To improve our infrastructure, educate our children, regulate those who would fleece us, feed the poor, support industry, promote agriculture, protect the land, stick flags on Mars, and keep the unwashed masses from getting pissed off enough to burn the joint down.

You want to live in your mud hut in some ungoverned shithole with your gun at your side to fight off bandits, go right ahead. You can achieve that lifestyle in several places on Earth today. I choose civilization.

@14 - Which deregulation? It'd be much easier to list the deregulation the DLC/New Dems/3rd way disagreed with than the opposite. Perhaps you should list the deregulation not agreeable to Clintonites so we'd have a laugh.

Not a particularly nice dodge and you haven't answered my question.

@ 13, liberals once "won" by this measure. The difference then was that they did it fair and square and with the majority of popular opinion behind them.

They may be getting much of what they want now, but the way the want it is far from satisfactory, and it will be undone much more quickly because of that. This isn't a game with a beginning and an end - keep that in mind.

It's always been easier to destroy than to create.

@14,

No, their attitude is good is the enemy of the perfect.

Time to defund the South

One “problem” is a lot of “Tea-baggers” (at least a lot of the ones I know, and I know a lot, though, contrary to popular belief around here, I am not one) believe that liberal policies have killed the America that they knew and loved and that its corpse can't be resurrected, so it’s time to cremate the body. They see nothing left of what they loved, no place for them or their politics (small government, low taxes, self-sufficiency, God, Guns and private property), and so find no reason to do anything other than mourn, build a funeral pyre and hope that a phoenix might rise from the ashes. Once that happens it’s hard to convince them that things can be improved by compromise or negotiation. They are convinced that the game is over and that they lost, and now they want to hit the re-set button and try again.

@21 It's true. They absolutely lack the logical and critical thinking skills necessary to understand the complex mechanisms through which a large and powerful country like ours is governed, so they resort to a "fuck it all" mindset.

@21. If what you say is true, the irony of course is that the America they mourn the loss of never existed. Their 'America', is a myth that only exists in TV shows like the 'Andy Gritffith Show' and John Wayne movies. They despise the America that does exist - where government action and programs are based ultimately on the 'will of the people,' regardless of race or gender, not solely on the prerogatives and biases of some self-selected minority of white male elites. That is why I think Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, teabaggers in general and the rest of these reactionary ideologues really don't support the spirit or letter of the US constitution or really understand or appreciate democracy as a type of government. They can wrap themselves in all the American flags they want and cover their cars with as many 'support the troops' stickers as they like, but ultimately they are anti-America.

@21 But, but, but... Those things never existed! At least not in their lifetimes. The government had to grow to fight the Great Depression in the '30s. And then there was WW II and the growth of the military-industrial complex, and the giant secret projects to harness nuclear energy/weaponry, and the Cold War for 30+ years, and McCarthyism (as intrusive and abusive as government ever was) and HUAC (the House Committee on Un-American Activities), and the Vietnam War and the Space Race. And the school integration fights, voting rights act and responses to race riots of the '60s. When was the last time government was small?

And TAXES? Are you fucking kidding me? Federal taxes have NEVER been lower, at least not in the lifetime of anyone alive. What does Romney pay, 8.5%? Self-sufficiency? When was that? Frontier days? The VA Bill after WW II gave 10 million veterans all kinds of help: cheap housing loans, paid college tuition, free medical care. Guns? Not only has no one repealed the 2nd Amendment, the Supreme Court has given it its most liberal (as in expansive) interpretation ever, and adjusted for inflation, high quality guns are cheaper than ever. A halfway decent muzzle-loading rifle cost a year's earnings in the 18th century. Property rights? Get serious. The railroads in the 1800's got rights of way wherever they wanted. Robert Moses demolished entire urban neighborhoods in the 1960's that were bigger than 50% of the cities in the US to make way for interstate highways.

The Tea Party activists are completely, utterly delusional. The shit they feel they've lost is either stuff they've never had, or have better now than ever.

@21: @23 has it spot on. Decipimur Specie Recti. the america they knew and loved was a delusion they saw on TV.

they knew and loved the post-war economic expansion, not the 10-year depression and 6 years of industrialized murder that preceded it. they knew and loved apartheid america, where the blacks kept to their side of town and all the other minorities kept their mouths shut. they knew and loved an america with 100 million less people in it, one with government largesse largely invisible and unquestioned - highways, the space program, dams providing cheap power and water, & military industrial jobs. they loved cheap gas, a nation that was 99% monotheist, and women at home because 1 paycheck was enough.

it ain't coming back because it was never there. but they'll go to the grave denying it.

@18
"The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!"
-Mikhail Alexandrovich Bakunin

@15
Stay in in new york and continue to lick the boots of your masters while singing the praises of the nanny state.

@ 26, why haven't you emigrated to Somalia? No "nanny state," or any state for that matter, to keep you from realizing your full potential.

@24
All that may be true.
But perception, not truth, is reality.

Why didn't the Tea Nazi's just burn down the Reichstag...er ah the Capitol Building and blame the gays/abortion doctors/atheists? Reichstag...what was I thinking? They are nothing like the far right movement of Germany in the 1930's. The German's didn't weigh as much

@26 Just in case this thread isn't dead yet, I have a question for you.

You're very quick to say stuff about people in NYC being under the thumb of masters, etc. Could you explain how this works, and how it affects me?

I own my own house, with crazily low property taxes. (Apparently, there are businesses and commercial establishments in NYC who pay most of our tax, so we private homeowners don't have to.)

I have no need of a car, because we have great mass transit, and pretty good streets you can bicycle around on. But, I like having a car, too, so I keep a quite serviceable beater around, parked on the street.

I don't need to work. Everything is paid off and even though I never earned over 100K, I banked enough of my salary to build a decent portfolio. Even if I never see a dime from Social Security, I still have to live to 100 to spend it all. Never had trouble finding a job here in the Big Apple, but wasn't that fond of working, so when I saved enough money, I quit so I could putter around with my own projects.

I'm not on any sort of budget, and can eat out 29 times a week if I feel like it and hit all the shows. Have a ton of tech stuff and not many demands on my time. I'm active in my church and community and have a great home life with my wife.

Nice little garden in back of the house to grow flowers and vegetables and an apple tree. Great ethnic food stores everywhere and fresh everything available all year 'round. Fantastic wine selections and liquor is pretty cheap and the bars are legally open until 4 am. All the stores are open long hours and some are open 24. The arts and artists are flourishing, studios popping up all the time. I'm interested in metal sculpture, myself. And video.

When I get old, there are tons of services available here for seniors. I'd hate to be old in the suburbs or in rural red-state America.

Who are my masters? How am I oppressed/enslaved? What's wrong with living in culturally-rich, recreationally-rich New York City with stuff and housing and money and friends? As far as I'm concerned, life is pretty good.

@31 but but, Cascadian Pig Butt is scared and feeling emasculated, he needs to be able to carry his gun around in order to feel brave and manly. NYC wants to take his penis away, idk why NYC wants to take his penis away but that is what he believes. It is completely understandable that he'd be afraid of the place.

@31

So like most of the old washed up, liberal hacks on the slog you are one of the boomers who squandered my generations future. With a portfolio boosted by the very government policies you pretend to rail against.

Probably you are white enough to avoid stop and frisk. Rich enough to avoid the riffraff and stay in a nice insulated bubble where you can pretend to care for the poor you go to lengths to separate yourself from. But don’t worry, you care for the oppressed because you support the party in power and you can’t be racist because you voted for a black man.

Your condescending tone speaks volumes about your view of liberty, your willingness to strangle the natural rights of “red state country rubes” speaks to your true intentions.

You are an elitist who believes himself to be free merely because he can paint the walls of his prison.

@33 You are wrong on several counts. You're pretty close about the skin tone and generation, but that's about it. I opted out of the boomer lifestyle early on. How do you think I saved all that money on my salary? A doorman penthouse on the Upper East Side? A big suburban mini-mansion? Ha! A modest home in a nice, working-class part of Brooklyn with a low carrying cost. Left me with a lot of discretionary income, more than I could spend while I was working. And nice, down-to-earth neighbors. And a secure financial future.

There's no insulation here. I and the rest of the "riff raff" share the streets and shop in the same stores. My neighborhood is about as integrated as you can get, economically, racially, linguistically, and as far as class goes, we range from welfare to blue collar, pink collar, city workers, small business owners, all the way up to middle class. Haven't seen any upper class folks or CEOs in this part of Brooklyn. I don't remember railing against any government policies, other than their insufficiency, which is lately caused by your side. Right now, I'm railing against those who would destroy our government and our civilization out of myopic, petty selfishness. As far as the red states go, they exercise their "natural rights" to suck up the tax dollars provided by folks in my city, apparently. Parasites.

I suspect you have no idea what liberty is, or what being free of fear, need or want even feels like. You'll never be free, or complete, or truly self-sufficient.

@34
So after bragging about how much money you have, your NYC real estate, tech gadgets, restaurant food and how you don't work, now you want to pretend to be working class commoner, who shops at the same stores as the brown people.

Eat shit you racist elitist fuck.

There is a good reason the rest of this nation hates shithead New Yorkers.

If that shitstain of a city is soooo great why do you spend your effort commenting on a weekly rag here in backwater Seattle.

@ 35, speak for yourself, Somalian Bacon. "Rest of the nation" my ass. Why can't you brave little rebels admit that you're all alone?

@36

Yea Matt you are right I should have said:

There is a good reason most people hate New Yorkers.

Thank you for the edit.

@36

P.S.

How did that little recall of your anti-Bill of Rights CO state legislators go?

@35 Mostly I was bragging about what a great place NYC can be to live, at least if you're in the right "outer borough," have a decent job, and plan ahead. It's becoming clear to me that your anti-NYC stance is little more than extreme jealousy. There's nothing wrong with Seattle, of course. Like New York, it's another coastal magnet city where lots of people with ambition and ability move to make a decent life for themselves. If you're actually living there, from the level of your bitterness, I assume you must have neither.

You could always work on that. Devote some energy to bettering yourself rather than wasting time fighting your failing cultural battles on a liberal blog. Take a course. Go to church. Get a hobby. Learn a new skill. Take in a show. Go to a poetry reading. Learn to dance. Take the Red Cross water safety class. Get a Notary license. Join a hiking club. Meet new people. Volunteer at a senior center.

Of course, you have to be willing to change, because no matter where you go, there you are.

What anti-Bill of Rights legislators? No Rethugs were recalled, just the ones the NRA and gun corporations didn't like.

For a seld-styled "independent," you sure suck a lot of corporate head.

@40 - you have been on fire lately with your comments Matt, kudos.

@35 - Lol, you mad bro?

The exec branch using drones, corporations, and lobbyists are bad says Somalian Bacon, but the NRA, gun corps, and kids blowing each other's heads off are just fine.

But "Liberty!" or something.

@ 41, thanks. Inspired, I guess.

It's funny - Somalian Bacon dances joyfully at the corporate subversion of politics, but there is no way the early seating of two new state reps, and the control they have gained of the state house as a result, will change anything. Gov. Hickenlooper is extremely popular and the state GOP literally has nobody on the bench who can take him on; therefore, he will win handily in 2014 and will veto any attempted repeal of the gun legislation that gave the NRA fits. (IF any of it actually makes it through the still-Democratic state senate, which it won't.)

The gun lobby, of course, will do what they can in next year's general, but they already have a track record of being a danger primarily to moderate Republicans, not Democrats. The recall specifically targeted two house Dems who were demographically vulnerable anyway, and it took the best effort of paid volunteers to get it on the ballot. And let us not forget that recall elections have the lowest turnout of all.

Somalian Bacon can crow about it at the gun lobby's behest, like the sheep in Animal Farm did for the pigs, but puppets who claim to think for themselves are still speaking in someone else's voice.

@35:

So after bragging about how much money you have, your NYC real estate, tech gadgets, restaurant food and how you don't work, now you want to pretend to be working class commoner, who shops at the same stores as the brown people... Eat shit you racist elitist fuck.

This makes no sense at all, even for you. You seem to be saying that someone who has money, owns property, can afford a smartphone and computer, and eats out at restaurants can't possibly live in a neighbourhood with "brown" people? Because... "brown" people don't live in places where people can afford those things?

And you are saying that Brooklyn Reader is the racist here?

@41

Hey neighbor, you might want to check Matt's facts before you line up to give him a bj.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a staunch supporter of stricter gun laws, donated $350,000 to Morse and Giron. Billionaire philanthropist Eli Broad gave a separate $250,000 check to help the legislators, while Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) repeatedly issued fundraising calls for Giron in emails to her supporters. The Denver Post reported Monday that those in Morse and Giron's corner had collected nearly $3 million, while proponents of the recall raised about $540,000.

The NRA spent heavily on the recall effort, reporting at least $360,000

The anti-freedom cabal lead by Media billionaire Michael Bloomberg and fellow members of the wall street elite spent over 6 times as much as their opposition and almost 9 times as much as the NRA.

The people still won.

As for the mythical corporate gun lobby, the NRA gets most of it's support from individuals, and the largest firearms manufactures namely Colt, FNH and HK rely primarily on military and Law enforcement sales rather than the civilian market.

I built my AR with parts made by smaller specialty manufactures on Aero Precision Lower forged and machined in Tacoma WA, hardly the stuff of global megacorporations. Because buying local/DIY is the Cascadian way.

@39
LMFAO
Sorry I am not jealous of a city of assholes in a state with no mountains. Sorry you least coasters just can't comprehend the free west, but that isn't really your fault.

Also I appreciate your suggestions but am way ahead of you on most. Some friends and I are working on a new sport, alpine biathlon, it is a mix between backcountry skiing and mountaineering with a semi-automatic carbine chambered in an intermediate cartridge, promises to be fucking sick. Loudmouthed NYC pussies need not apply.

You lose, Somalian Bacon. The NRA is the corporate gun lobby, not the "people."

Either you're totally against corporations or totally for them, "radical."

@45

It looks like once again, you are a liar.

I recall it was THE PEOPLE who voted to the bastards out, despite 3 million in corporate funds given by Bloomberg and company.

Got any more absolute lies and half backed assumptions? Someone your age should really have a better grasp on the world.

Even if those numbers are accurate (and I doubt they are - how about a credible link or two?), you're ignorance of Colorado politics couldn't be more absolute if you had just time-traveled here from ancient Egypt. Morse and Giron were slow to respond to the threat, and of course neither had the benefit of a well-oiled political machine equivalent to the NRA's in their corner presenting a unified defense.

I note your ducking of the low turnout, as well as the demographics of who participates in recall elections. Probably because that tends to prove me right and you wrong, eh?

But no matter. This was a nice diversion from the point you DON'T challenge, namely that you are a member of a radical superminority, out of step and ignorant of actual Constitutional law.

@47

"neither had the benefit of a well-oiled political machine equivalent to the NRA's in their corner presenting a unified defense."

Yea they merely had over 3 million dollars, the backing of one of the country’s biggest media conglomerates, and several anti-gun organizations that have been active for decades. Yet their anti-freedom agenda still got buried.

Bloomberg gave $350,000, a single billionaire gave $10,000 less than the entire NRA with millions of members and still failed in his effort to overturn democracy. Turnout doesn't matter, getting your people to the polls and winning elections is what has the final say.

Not to mention more people signed the recall petitions than voted for the bums in the first place.

Is the Denver Post a good enough source?
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_240467…

I took the numbers I got from Huffpo.

All that money and you still lost the election to a "radical super minority."

As for being a "radical super minority":

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead.

Got any more lies and garbage to spew Matt, you miserable little fascist?

@48: Matt's profile pic has a poodle in it. Your's has a gun. And he's the fascist?

I'd also note that you keep referring to people with different views than you as "pussies" - but you are the one who needs to walk around carrying a gun in order to feel safe.

And then there's the whole racism thing I pointed out up @43.

You do seem to have some issues with projection.

@49

Matt wants to restrict the natural rights of others, I wish to expand them.

I think this conversation might be going a little over your head, but dont sweat it, it is almost your bedtime.

@50 Bullshit. You're a cowardly little pissant fascist. You're a goddamned brownshirt. You live in fear, so you puff yourself up and strut around with your guns telling everyone else that they are weak.

Do you remember this post of yours, after the Boston bombings? "I was glad to have my AR-15 last night."

Yeah, tough guy. On the opposite coast and you would have pissed your pants in fear if you didn't have your gun to make you feel better.

Good boy, Somalian Bacon. I no longer doubt the numbers, but it just proves my point about the NRA. Money is no match for experience. Also, it changes none of my other points, nor does it prove yours. Recall elections aren't general elections - not when it comes to measuring what ALL citizens want.

Did you notice that your DP link said nothing about recall petition numbers? That's because the truth is nowhere near that. Oh, and would I be remiss in pointing out that Colorado Sec'y of State Scott Gessler is a Republican stooge of the greatest degree? The chances of his office allowing questionable signatures to slide are quite good. Colorado politics, we know you don't know them.

Anyway, since people now use "Fascist" in place if the now-forbidden "Nazi," I call Godwin's-by-proxy and declare victory. But I'll leave you with an exercise. If rights are "natural," how come nobody enjoys them until we write up legal codes that spell them out?

Enjoy! It's bedtime for Matto. The Avs won their first game in a blowout, and I'm feeling fine.