Glee?

Glee!

Well, does he just like to fantasize about being degraded himself, or does he get off on the degradation of others?

(Before I continue, it seems fair to disclose that I REALLY dislike the inclusion of examples - LW might have included them just so that Mr Savage would know exactly what he was dealing with or might have been trying to drag everyone here into sharing, but, if ever there were a time for judicious editing, this would have been it. I didn't follow any of the links and I'm not going to do so; this just influenced me into a negative opinion of LW when I was more or less neutral about the rest of the letter.)

Resuming, the former is one thing, producing a FTWL... with a shrug and commendation for Mr Savage's course, but the latter makes me nervous. If LW is in the latter category, some scenes from my life would make him ruin his pants. (He'd probably be disappointed that I defeated conversion therapy, though.) Mr Savage mentions the desirability of LW's insulating this from his politics, which coincides neatly with what I sometimes think of as the Mary Cheney trap - a set of mind in which someone thinks, "I'm okay, but the rest of my group isn't," thinking back to the years she was actively assisting the Bush agenda, safe and secure in the knowledge that she personally didn't need legal rights when nobody would treat the vice president's daughter badly. The A-Gay type who can be relied upon to vote a solid Republican ticket is particularly prone, in my experience, to finding the degradation of other non-heterosexuals to be quite hot, to be particularly loathsome in his descriptive vocabulary, and to frame it as if it were universally accepted as The #1 Hottest Fantasy instead of a niche taste.

I'd add this as a caveat to the Sub's Paradox - feel as empowered as you like for being in control of your degradation - but not mine. (Now I'm thinking of Rumer Godden and the Benedictine maxim, "Have as many particular friends as you can - but not one.")

I'm not sure about Mr Savage's list of archetypes, which makes me want to revive my once-upon-a-time distinguishing between gay and homosexual; finding that list hot would be a trademark of the H crowd rather than the G crowd in my book. Maybe it's time to dust off H-v-G for another outing.

Agreed about hoping that, with the compartmentalizing safely in place, LW did get the right BF. He's certainly at risk of falling in with an A-Gay or someone who will give him a lot more of this than he wants, and bring it into his real life.

(Why am I worried now that I shan't sleep tonight?)

@3: A healthy woman who's turned on by rape only wants to see rape porn where the actress is pretending to be raped. The firewall that Dan's talking about keeps her from being turned on by actual women's actual rapes. In fact, most women I know with rape fantasies are disgusted & angered by real rape and real rapists.

Similarly, this guy, in health, should be utterly repelled by how you were treated, even if he's not treated that differently in his bedroom. I think, what's complicated for this guy is that he can't tell whether the websites he's getting off with are real or fake. I'd encourage him to take a break from "gray-zone" sites until he's in a more solid place, emotionally.

Ms Nurse - I'm quite inclined to agree. (Funny that there's a schemozzle about Ms Matalin and her recent remarks that "her gay friends" all have only one thought about the Russian situation, and that's to consider how Putin looks shirtless.)

Now I'll probably keep dredging up the time I was fired all night. Oh, dear.

"obeythestraightman" sounds like the queer version of those shitty tumblrdoms that write terribly awkward copy over other persons' images. Haven't checked the tumblr to verify though.

@3: "Well, does he just like to fantasize about being degraded himself, or does he get off on the degradation of others?"

Isn't porn a little of both? But more specifically, he sounds more masochist than sadist. The title's also the "sub's paradox" :p

Go fuck yourself, while there may be women who fantasize about being raped, evidently Dan and the feminist who do fantasize don't understand what rape is; violating a person's private space against their will, by a person who doesn't respect space that is not their's to control.

There is a difference between role play and real life

it doesn't matter if there really are Jews who fantasize about Nazi, odds are that the statement is just another journoterrorist's attempt to influence your mind by getting you to believe dipshit's lies.

On the slim to none chance there is actually a letter writer who needs such advice, you need to see a counselor, because it sounds like you are one of the people who after experiencing abuse, doesn't give enough of a shit about themselves, and certainly not at all about other people to understand why hatred and lust for power that is not rightfully yours, is wrong

Fuck you and anyone else who believes that going along with the crowd as opposed to doing what is right, recognizing the difference between love and hate so that you will know when respect must be substituted for love, in Heaven.

We do not tolerate people who get these extremely basic, most fundamental principles mixed up. Fuck Journoterrorist rapists and their bullshit advice

if you can't learn respect, you are doomed , and frankly good riddance to all who can't

@7 doesn't think we landed on the moon because ze thinks that changing directions in space is impossible. Safely ignore.

And Dan is right about thinking about counseling, not to cure you, but to help you separate fantasy from reality.

Give it to us straight, Dan: is there ever going to be a new SLLOTD again?

@7: Thanks for the first laugh of the day. What a unique perspective on sexuality.

Ms Rand - Yes; unclear phrasing. It's one thing to watch play degradation and fantasize about replacing the pretend-victim, and another to require reading about the rolling back of rights in order to get off. I prefer not to imagine how much fun LW might have at the NOM site (maybe we could match him up with Mr M, and they could take turns rhapsodizing about Ms Gallagher).

LW where he is now just reminds me of people who've had the inappropriate reaction, "That's so HOT!!!" when learning about real oppression people have experienced.

well thanks dchari, I honestly don't believe anyone should feel ashamed of any kink they have so long as it only involves fully knowledgeable, consenting adult participants.

My words here have more to do with my extremely low opinion of UofO journalism students, who are now part of the rumor mill/blackmailing journoterrorists, and how fucked up it is to justify violating a person's electronic files with the view of "they are asking for it" if they don't have a strong enough firewall

fuck subtlety

@9 - I have the same whinge, but really, it is helping my productivity at work.

@10: They troll in every SLLOTD they can.

@9 & @13: Come on guys there were 3 new ones last week and several the week before that. Remember back in ye olden days (2006?) when there was one column a week!?

Tangential, but there is a great biographic article about Nicky Crane who--in the70's 80's--was literally the poster boy for the UK's far right skinheads. Also very gay.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25142…