Just to remind everyone had we gone another way you could go from Ballard to West Seattle in, what was it? 15-20 minutes like RIGHT NOW in rush hour traffic.

Every time I try to get from interbay to downtown, which is several times a week, I sigh. Car or "rapid ride", it's a chore.

Nice when the weather's nicer though, and I can bike. (Im a weather wimp, not much for winter biking...)

Apparently it's more of a São Paulotown kind of idea.

Supports the size of cars. Switches to single tracks so trains have to take turns traveling opposite directions. And of course financing which requires taking out rounds of bonds to finance accumulated interest for generations. We dodged a bullet when we cancelled the monorail.

The unfortunate thing is that the planning for the monorail left West Seattle and Ballard out of a couple rounds of Sound Transit planning.

it glides as softly as a cloud

There's no reason ST can't use that technology, is there?

The monorails in Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook put them on the map!

"sigh" is right... yeah.... and what happened to all that money that was supposed to be used to buy up all that property? Just kind of evaporated didn't it.

Jesus. We are living in on of the wealthiest cities in the richest nation in the history of the planet, but developing countries can construct better infrastructure faster than we can. From high speed rail and internet to healthcare.

What is the god damned point in living in an empire that throws it's weight around when the emperors don't deliver? Even Napoleon built roads and libraries.

@6: yet another if the sins of Conlin and why we are lucky to be rid of the scheming bastard...

We dont need a monorail. We need a subway. Monorails have to be custom built and are unnecessarily expensive to maintain. What Seattle needs is a subway. ST is studying it, tell them you want it.

Despite the fact that we voted 3 times -- THREE TIMES -- on the Monorail Expansion and approved it every single fucking time.... We still have no real Monorail, and most likely never will.

Yeah, the people vote. But it's really only when The Money talks, that things actually get done. Or something. I'm fairly certain that's not what the Founding Fathers had in mind...

Is there some chance the track could bend?

@15: I'm fairly sure it IS what the Founding Fathers wanted... But they were not as moral as we often imagine.

@16,
Not on your life, my Hindu friend!

Sure the people voted. Let's have a monorail! But don't make us pay for it. When the Monorail's consultants totally screwed up in their revenue forecasts (underforecasting by about 1/3), the Monorail Board was too chickenshit to apologize to the voters and go back and do it right. Instead, they hemmed and hawed along until they cobbled together a cockamamie scheme to finance the thing over 50+ years at a cost (in nominal dollars, to be sure) that indeed started with "11" and was followed by nine more digits, and then a decimal point.

Had the Monorail board done what Sound Transit did (recognize the mistake, replace the executive director, communicate with the public, and keep coming back to the voters), then we certainly could have a billion dollars worth of steel viaduct-looking shit cluttering the streets from Ballard to West Seattle.

But they stuck their heads in the sand and hoped no one would notice. Oops.

Write Wsdot Director Lynn Peterson and request color copies of the most recent design for The Circulator Monorail, first submitted to Seattle agencies in 2000. Still only 6 miles of single-track, 13 stations, 6 cars, high capacity and fast service between Seattle Center (5 stops), 2 waterfront stops (Coleman Dock & near Pike Market), 2 Sodo stops (atop Expo hall & Sounder station), City Hall, Central library, Westlake and 2 Belltown stops on 4th & 2nd.
Cost: ~$500 million.

The amended monorail design had to account for how the Broadway streetcar line affected the Trolleybus Reconfiguration (circulators) and streetcar expansion. I figure The Seattle Circulator Plan is still possible because Bertha is imploding, THANK GOD, and those most responsible for that horrific plan should have to come up with a Plan B or go straight to jail.
Bertha is not your friend.

Yeah, @21, just like the one-way circulator bullshit nobody uses in Detroit!
Or the one-way circulator boondoggle they just finally dismantled in Sydney!

If an idea has proven asinine elsewhere, it can only succeed in Seattle, amirite?

Well, it was relatively low-cost, singularly low-impact and generated more ridership than the high-impact Greenline, but twerps like dp will spew bullshit and Seattle continue to be a cesspool of corruption. Before assuming some project should be rejected, have an open-minded look at the facts and figures. The Greenline was another example of engineering crap from Seattle. The Circulator Monorail is an engineering masterpiece.

No, Wells, the problem with Seattle is that it's full of geniuses like yourself obsessively reinventing wheels, and proclaiming that whatever bullshit you pull out of your ass is "an engineering masterpiece", even when your presumptions make no sense and your ideas precisely mirror demonstrated failures elsewhere.

The Green Line project was a group of modal fetishists, with zero engineering or urban planning expertise and zero experience living in cities with productive transit systems, pulling numbers out of thin air.

Your circulator "masterpiece" is the same phenomenon, cubed.

Ask yourself this, you halfwit: Who in the fuck would want to "circulate" for six miles in the wrong direction on a one-way track, just to finally transfer to the same old slowpoke bus to where they might actually be going?

The Detroit and Sydney versions of your precise plan failed because they were rarely more useful than walking.

Explore the world and grow a fucking brain.

I moved from Seattle to São Paulo last year. While an addition is good to see, São Paulo's public transportation, especially it's subways system, is still way inadequate for the size of the city. When compared to other major cities of comparable size, the metro system here is tiny. However, we are seeing some progress. There have even been public bicycle stations where people can rent bikes by the hour using their metro cards pop up all over the city recently.

Hey dp, you fucking twerp, what do you know about the Seattle Circulator Plan? Answer: Nuthin. It's an integration of transit systems for downtown Seattle encompassing Lower Queen Anne, the Waterfront, First and Capital Hills and South Lake Union: The Circulator Monorail, new modern trolleybuses, regional buses and streetcars integrated for convenient transfers and frequent service at least cost. Oh, it's a masterpiece all right, you typical Seattle ass wipe fuckhead.

The Trolleybus Reconfiguration: Variable circulating trolleybus lines to minimize complicated turns and overhead wire 'clutter' with the least buses to achieve a service frequency of under 10 minutes everywhere; relatively inexpensive, convenient and efficient.
The 1st/3rd Trolleybus Circulator: A separate line to run between Mercer/Roy and Jackson to acheive a 5-minute frequency. Circulators require the least vehicles to effectively match supply to demand.
Regional bus lines directed to 2nd & 4th with least stops to minimize air pollution and faster travel through town.
The Streetcar Circulator: A 2-track Waterfront Line with Alaskan Way layout. Stoplights reduced from 13 to 10. Crosses the BNSF tracks at the proposed bridge at Broad (or at Vine), north on Elliott to w 3rd then Mercer, east to 5th then to a Thomas/Harrison couplet to Westake. The route south through town is on 5th Ave with the northbound direction on 4th (instead of 6th, obviously too steep), return to Westlake on Virginia.

If you've read this far, dp, I'm fairly sure your brain has translated every word into a mirror of yourself, bullshit.
Anyone, even you, can call Wsdot and request/demand color copies of the latest Seattle Circulator Plan and have a look at it before passing judgment.

Oh, I see, uh huh, yep.

Your "genius" plan involved not one, but two new modes of transit running in labyrinthine loops, a complete overhaul of downtown streets and infrastructure, new bridges, and multiple miles of street track in addition to multiple miles of elevated track.

All to create myriad new, indirect, painfully slow ways of traveling within a one-mile radius of downtown.

All that superfluous infrastructure for $500 million. Somehow. Miraculously. Because "genius".

Gee... I can't imagine why people won't take you seriously.

As predicted, dp's brain has been deep fat fried on who knows what for far too long to think outside the box of BS. Supply and Demand. The demand for better transit downtown is high. Craft a transit design that efficiently provides the supply, nerds like dp crawl out of the woodwork and spread their mental manure.

You truly might be the dumbest person to whose rantings I've ever subjected myself. Congrats.

I've explained how Seattle could improve its transit system. An improved monorail line is still possible but not actually necessary alongside the other elements of the Seattle Circulator Plan. The Trolleybus Reconfiguration circulators would be most effective and least expensive. The Streetcar Circulator should be considered a better alternative to the 1st Ave route if Seattle movers and shakers wanted transit to actually function. Fuck off, dp, ya moron.

You truly might be the dumbest -- and most delusional -- person to whose rantings I've ever subjected myself. Congrats.

Using the word "precise", as this dp character did, to compare the Circulator to Sydney and Detroit systems, (all hail GM, auchtung!) - is an exaggeration, as is calling a trolleybus reconfiguration a "complete overhaul".
A few blocks of overhead wire are added while the 'clutter' and 'dewiring' potential reduced.
You'd think Seattle's electric bus fleet would've been upgraded to world standards years, no decades ago.

I will not put up with false or falsely misled viewpoint ad nauseum. Seattle's transit system doesn't work because Metro, SDOT, Sound Transit AND peripheral transit authories, all have their heads firmly planted up theirs or each others - including passively progressive Town Hall activist buttholes. The written word dp puts out isn't near the dumbest, most delusional rantings I've tried to decipher and translate into sentenses that make sense - for their benefit and edification - but se la vie.
Seattle is doomed.

One last edit:
Seattle's transit system doesn't work because SDOT, Metro, Sound Transit and regional transit authories, all have their heads firmly planted up theirs or each others or up passively progressive Town Hall activististas - delightfully comfortably big buttholes.
Bertha will demolish,
every building near and directly above,
Slowly over time or suddenly,
and for those inside,
a final realization.
Seattlers. Meh.

You clearly have never read the volumes of highly specific criticism of our current transit administrations, and of their shortsightedness and ignorance of worldwide best practices, that I have rained upon the Seattle Transit Blog. No fan of the status quo am I.

The difference is that my contributions to the discourse have been rational, literate, and informed by real-world experience. Your rantings are those of a megalomaniacal crank who can barely write a comprehensible English sentence, and who believes that his "genius" proposal has been "blacklisted" by a government conspiracy merely because it doesn't make a lick of sense.

Yes, of course Metro's route structure needs a dramatic overhaul, and of course the trolley wire needs an upgrade. What is not needed -- anywhere -- is a bunch of looping single-track bullshit, or streetcars stuck in traffic on their way to nowhere, or the indescipherable rantings of a madman.

And yeah, your "circulator monorail" is exactly like the Sydney boondoggle that was just mercifully tossed in the dustbin of history.

Also, your "loop" streetcar is exactly like the one Portland built to its Inner Eastside, which literally no one uses. You're running 0/2 on worthwhile precedents.

Portland has met the Kyoto Protocol for nearly 20 years with an advanced transit system such as Seattle will never emulate as long as assholes like dp spew bullshit and call it rational discourse. I fear Seattle's Broadway Streetcar line may operate only slightly better than the near worthless South Lake Union line. Connecting these lines via 1st Ave - if Left lane, Center stations as proposed are even possible - I expect will similarly fall short of expectations. A Waterfront streetcar route may extend to Interbay. An extension to Seattle Center would serve that high travel demand. Get over it, dp. Seattle either doesn't know how to arrange a functioning transit system, or its transit agencies do know how but won't.

Portland's eastside streetcar is confidently expected to increase ridership dramatically when the new Willamette River bridge opens in 2015 (completing the circulator AND the Milwaukie MAX line), and promote extensive development all along the line, indefinitely increasing ridership for decades into the future.
Do Seattle a favor, dp, STFU.

Portland has met the Kyoto Protocol for nearly 20 years with an advanced transit system...

Hahahahahahahaha! You actually believe the nonsense you spew, don't you?

Why don't you look up Portland's transit modeshare and per-capita carbon impact, then get back to me.

Here's a preview: Portland is not a signatory to the Kyoto Protocol. Nothing about TriMet is "advanced", especially not it's downtown "circulator" streetcars. There is nothing sustainable about your mediocre low-density hamlet.

I swear, you make the exaggerated archetypes of your town on Portlandia seem self-aware by comparison.

This dp character's game of rude one-upmanship is a waste of time. Readers genuinely concerned about Seattle transit can call or write Wsdot director Lynn Peterson and request recent copies of the Seattle Circulator Plan, and its companion report "How disabled people become productive members of society" which documents how the bore tunnel will undermine building foundations above its entire length, slowly over time and all at once in earthquake with a death toll in the hundreds, even thousands. The barely specious argument dp has made on this forum against the Seattle Circulator Plan and the nationally acclaimed Portland transit system is worthless.

Q.E.D., strangely confident moron from the nationally-acclaimed capital of fart-enjoying delusion.

Q.E.D.

Oh, and since you were too lazy to look it up yourself:

Here's a post by Jarrett Walker -- globally respected, progressive-minded public transit consultant, who happens to live in Portland -- on Portland's embarrassing transit modeshare and investment misfires:

http://www.humantransit.org/2010/01/port…

Jarrett Walker's credibility as about the same as Wendell Cox. Jarrett theorizes that transit 'couplets' serve fewer transit users. The hole in his theory is the pedestrian element of transit-oriented development. As long as walking between the block(s) of a couplet is convenient and attractive, transit users are not discouraged by walking nor using transit. In Seattle, walking is arduous, monotonous, clamorous, and crossing streets is hazardous. Portland has crafted a much more habitable city center than Seattle.

As a well-traveled adult who has lived in multiple cities where transit enjoys a majority or pluratily mode-share, for commute and non-commute trips alike, I feel confident in saying that Jarrett Walker's parsing of transit geometry -- and dismantling of "true believer" bullshit about circulator streetcars and TOD that magically appears from nowhere and solves all problems -- is about 10,000% more reliable than you are.

The hole in your "theories" is that you seem to have never been to a real city with real transit in your life, and that you are whining into the ether from your mom's NE Portland basement.

Have a fun life, dumbass.

dp's view of transit design is narrow, not once in this discussion leaving room for differing viewpoint and perspective, not once offering alternative transit arrangements that could possibly address Seattle's desperate need for practical improvements and modernization that increase transit patronage.

My advocacy for transit begin in 1992 when Portland's MAX consisted only the initial 15 miles of its Blue line and no streetcar system. From Portland, I try to keep up on all western states light rail new starts and expansions - Denver, SLC, Minneapolis, St Louis, Arizona, California, Hawaii, all of which meet minimum standards. Seattle has built the worst performing light rail, streetcar and commuter-rail systems with expansion plans that I don't expect to be dramatic improvements.

Over the years, ideologically-driven opponents presented every argument imaginable against these investments. Claiming to support transit improvements, dp uses much the same illogical and insanely reactionary argument against transit used by opponents.

The Seattle Circulator Plan never received a fair review, though it is indeed a marvel of transit design engineering; low cost, low impact, high productivity. Seattlers should not trust Metro, Sound Transit, Sdot nor Wsdot to act in their best interests. Following the money leads to car dependency and gross transit deficiency.
Fuck you, dp, ya twerp.

Congratulations on "advocating" (from your mom's basement) for 30 years to achieve transit often slower than walking and used by a depressingly slight percentage of Portlanders.

I don't think Seattle gets a lot of details right. And yet even pre-rail, Seattle's transit usage numbers were better than Portland's. No transit Mecca are you.

Your delusion is tiresome.

I won't apologize for telling this halfwit lying sack of shit dp to fuck off.