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The drum/clap track is so monotonous and saturating it suffucates anything else lively in the track.

NotSean on May 10, 2014 at 9:59 AM

Holy shit, that's pretty great. Love the MJ.

Rotten666 on May 10, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Gorgeous yacht. That's one of the great things about Seattle. We see amazing vessels.

raindrop on May 10, 2014 at 10:09 AM

To be fair to the FBI, they went to interrogate Dzhokhar knowing that none of that would be admissible in court,so they didn't violate his Miranda rights. They have enough evidence to convict him several times over without the interrogation. The FBI's actions are sensible considering the chaos that Dzhokhar caused and how there were still some unknowns (any other people involved? any other attack planned? etc).

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 10:12 AM

sigh. climate warning, yes, got it. but what is an average family supposed to do about it?

not drive at all? drive some?

fight coal trains? what about the moses lake composite plant, it will be used to build cars globally after trucking the stuff to the port to ship it to germany. should we ban that too?

what about airplanes. huge carbon load. should we ban the airospace industry, or only fight to ban stuff OTHER PEOPLE do to make money?

can my pal take that trip to bali? seeing as how flying is emissions out the wazzoo. it's for an environmental conference. does that make it okay?

what if he has no kids, then can he fly once a year?

what if work at home. does that permit me to drive on weekends?

most political movements succeed when they identify a problem and a solution. like "stop the war." or "8 hour day." or "$15 an hour." they tell you what to DO... the environmental movement is failing in telling us what exactly are we supposed to DO ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE. just assuming our own judgment on all this stuff will somehow lead the world to make the changes needed won't work. maybe we should ban all driving, flying, all coal, all airplane manufacture, and require thermostats at 60 degrees -- is THAT what we need to do? more? less? who the fuck knows? apparently not environmental leaders, they don't have the handy dandy to do list for us. so we sit and kinda do a little bit here and there, not knowing if it matters or not, in a totally disorganized and ineffective way. see you can't really garner support until you say what you are FOR, HOW YOU WILL FIX IT. why won't they say how to fix it? I suspect as many do that the changes required are so great, they won't be done.

which means it's pointless for me to cut down if it's going to hell anyway. or, it's practically pointless, it's probably good for me to cut down if you believe in heaven or something. heaven for being environmentally good. if nothing I do matters anyway, rationallly speaking, there's no reason to do it.

on May 10, 2014 at 10:21 AM

It's the final day of the NFL Draft. It will be interesting to see if Michael Sam gets picked. It's the middle of the 4th round now and there are 7 rounds total.

Gern Blanston on May 10, 2014 at 10:22 AM

@3
Seattle has amazing vessels. So much water. Freshwater, seawater. Beauty and engineering abound.

However Slog is more the Stephen Colbert YouTube aesthetic.

dnt trust me on May 10, 2014 at 10:50 AM

what @4 said. Also, I'm against the death penalty anyway. He'll die in prison.

JonnoN on May 10, 2014 at 10:57 AM

They said when they caught him that they weren't going to allow him access to a lawyer when they first had a chance to interrogate him. This was in public discussion at the time, on TV, by public officials. It's not news.

on May 10, 2014 at 11:18 AM

Leaked from the Israeli spy report: "Someone needs to put a Parental Advisory sticker on Tipper's ass"

Mahtli69 on May 10, 2014 at 11:25 AM

@5 your kind of thinking is what got us into this mess to begin with. There are big things we must do to fight climate change. But a billion small good actions from a billion different people will also have a positive net effect.

MajordomoPicard on May 10, 2014 at 12:28 PM

@4: Carmen Ortiz, the monster who murdered Aaron Swartz was involved. It is not a surprise that she would have so little respect for due process.

The only thing that interrogating Dzhokhar Tsarnaev accomplished was for the DOJ and FBI to thump their chests pretending that they actually did something. When that wasn't enough, they had to go to Florida to murder a friend of his.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 1:19 PM

I do not care about D. Tsarnaev. They did what they did to make sure no one else was in imminent danger. He's got some nerve invoking his rights and claiming they were violated. He came here as an immigrant, lived off of social services, was educated here, became a U.S. citizen, and then committed an act of terrorism murdering innocent people, including children. Then he went to a party and hung out with his friends drinking and smoking dope. Anything he said to the FBI is irrelevant. There is enough physical evidence (including what he wrote on the wall of the boat before they caught him) to put him away. What sickens me is how much money will be spent on him.

xina on May 10, 2014 at 1:28 PM

@11: Lighting candles and shedding tears can also help.

raindrop on May 10, 2014 at 1:32 PM

If you guys want a solution for funding buses, why not charge $1 million per ship canal crossing.

It's got to worth that much for one yatch to hold up 10,000 cars, bikes and pedestrians.

Supreme Ruler Of The Universe on May 10, 2014 at 2:09 PM

Congratulations to the couples who got married in Arkansas today. (And everyone else, too.)

seatackled on May 10, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Re: "Gotcha Capitalism" well, there's the kind of capitalism where some guy who owns an apartment says "you can live in my apartment for a month in exchange for $1200", and you pay him $1200 and get to live in his apartment for a month. Or the kind of capitalism where a chalkboard says a latte costs $3.50, and you pay $3.50 and get a decent latte. But perhaps Ansel is homeless, or perhaps has personnel assistant takes care of such things, or perhaps there is some other reason he has no experience with such capitalist exchanges.

David Wright on May 10, 2014 at 2:30 PM

@12 Neither due process nor Dzhokhar's rights were violated.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 2:49 PM

Who would have thought that Arkansas would be the best place to be today?

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/arc…

passionate_jus on May 10, 2014 at 2:54 PM

A "super yacht industry"? What the hell is a super yacht industry? No one, not one single person on earth, needs a super yacht.

LuisitaPhD on May 10, 2014 at 4:23 PM

@22

nobody needs an X-Box either.

so what the fuck is your point?

on May 10, 2014 at 4:34 PM

@12: Aaron Swartz? Isn't he that coward who took his own life rather than take even a minimal amount of responsibility for his crime? In a lot of ways, he's the perfect Redditor. White guy who throws a tantrum when he doesn't get his way.

Fortunately, he did us all a favor and killed himself. Good riddance.

on May 10, 2014 at 4:45 PM

@18: The flat out murder of the friend in Florida wasn't a violation of due process?

As I've said before, FBI agents are scum. Any person who assists an FBI agent has committed and immoral action. Every honest citizen has a duty to impede and interfere with FBI agents to the maximum of their ability. They are perjurers and murders.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 4:53 PM

@25, That's a separate issue altogether and has no bearing Dzhokhar's case and the FBI's treatment of him.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 5:23 PM

Well. Now we know what white-collar-criminally-insane excess buys.

auntie grizelda on May 10, 2014 at 5:32 PM

@26: I get it. But the fact that the DOJ so cavalierly mocked the Miranda process bothers me. It is clear that they did it for the publicity so that they would appear to be 'tough', not for any practical reason. Ortiz and her goons wanted to tell the public that the accused didn't even deserve his Miranda rights. They spit on the process. Considering the corruption and murder that has occurred in that particular DOJ office, I'm not surprised.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 5:37 PM

There is no such thing as "Miranda Rights." There is a Miranda warning which informs you that if you request a lawyer, and are not given one, then nothing you say can be used against you in court. So far they aren't using any of that interrogation, and with all the other evidence, they don't need to. No rights were violated, and due process was followed.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 5:45 PM

@29: No, she is just mocking the process and murdering his friend. She is positioning herself politically as saying that she is hard on terrorists (by not giving the Miranda warning). Fuck her and the FBI.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 6:24 PM

@29 Again, the guy in Florida has absolutely nothing to with Dzhokhar's rights, or whether due process was followed with him. Everything involved with his arrest and treatment was by the book and (I say this as someone who is often critical of the police) something that should be lauded. You clearly have an axe to grind, but Dzhokhar's arrest has absolutely nothing to do with whatever is pissing you off. Seriously, to get meaningful reform, don't fucking attack people when they do something right.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 6:40 PM

@31: Right, they just decided to skip the Miranda process outside of the fact that the media and prominent politicians were calling for it. They just decided to pass over potential evidence. And the statements from politicans like Lindsay Graham calling him an "enemy combatant" who didn't deserve Miranda warnings were imaginary?

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 7:07 PM

@31: From Lindsay Graham:

The Law of War allows us to hold individual in this scenario as potential enemy combatant w/o Miranda warnings or appointment of counsel.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 7:09 PM

@31: BTW, the FBI considers the "public safety exception" enough to fail to give a Miranda Warning but enough to deny a lawyer and prosecute a person for any statements that were not "Mirandized".

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/public…

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 7:13 PM

@31, No, his 5th and 6th amendment rights were not violated. If the prosecution tries to introduce statements from then interrogation, THEN his rights have been violated.

@32 Lindsay Graham is an idiot, and that was just posturing. Nothing suggests that Dzhokhar was or is being treated as an enemy combatant.

I seriously have no idea how to make this any clearer, NOTHING WAS DONE WRONG IN THE ARREST AND INTERROGATION OF DZHOKHAR TSARNAEV. NO RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED, AND DUE PROCESS WAS FOLLOWED CORRECTLY.

Dude, you are tilting at windmills.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 7:30 PM

@35:

o, his 5th and 6th amendment rights were not violated. If the prosecution tries to introduce statements from then interrogation, THEN his rights have been violated.

From the FBI document that I referenced:

Miranda warnings need not be provided prior to asking questions directed at neutralizing an imminent threat, and voluntary statements made in response to such narrowly tailored questions can be admitted at trial.

Let me summarize: the FBI can deny a lawyer, badger him over and over, make threats, and then admit anything he says in court.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 7:33 PM

Well when they try to admit those statements in court, then you may have a point. However, THAT HAS NOT YET OCCURRED. Is this really so hard to understand!?

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 8:02 PM

@37: Yes. An agency of the US federal government believes that it can violate the rights of suspects when it wants. And the only protection would be if 10+ years of court trials limited that power (which was already limited decades ago). If you don't see any problem with the "public safety exemption" then you are an idiot.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 8:20 PM

Again, until any of that is admitted in court (which is pure speculation at this point), NO RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED. The 5th and 6th amendment do not prevent law enforcement from denying a suspect their lawyer. All they do is make any statement made during that time inadmissible in court. You are raging about speculative things.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 8:41 PM

@39: You may be willing to wait for the Supreme Court to overturn OR UPHOLD the invalidation of Miranda rights, but I'm not. I see the FBI's interpretation as it is, an attempt to subvert and invalidate the basic rights that most of the Western World holds dear.

The FBI is an internal security agency. Their purpose is not law enforcement, but political stability (which is why they exist outside of the DOJ). But even the DOJ exists only for political reasons. Both agencies are subverting the Constitution and the most you can say is "wait until it comes to trial". Fuck that. These agencies have been responsible for uncountable crimes against the citizens of this country. Your ignorance of their vile deeds and your pretending that due process will be somehow met (after decades of litigation) only makes you an abettor to their crimes.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 9:03 PM

Good luck with your insane quest to manufacture doubt on a conviction of a terrorist just because some bizarre grudge. As someone who has connections to some of the victims, I hope you eventually become wise enough to see how fucked up you are acting.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 9:48 PM

@41: As someone who has a connection to our legal system, I hope that you eventually become wise enough to know the importance of our Constitutional protections. The US legal system isn't based on vigilante justice. Every minor protection that you undermine will affect thousands of people. If you were wise, you would reflect on the ethical basis for these protections instead of lashing out in vengeance and anger at people who are interested in actual justice instead of show trials.

But, oh dear, I defended the Constitutional rights of a 'terrorist'. That makes me a bad person! I am so fucked up, right?

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 10:00 PM

You fucking idiot. Repeat after me, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's constitutional rights have not been violated.

You are just making shit up at this point. In fact it's incredibly ironic that you are willing to convict the DoJ of wrongdoing before they have done anything wrong. How's that innocent until proven guilty treating you? Fucking hypocrite.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 10:08 PM

@43: His rights have been violated. He was denied access to a lawyer and he wasn't Miranidized. You obviously think this is trivial or something that can be resolved through decades of litigation. But you are a piece of shit and an idiot who doesn't care about civil rights.

I get it. You think he is guilty, thus the trial is just a formality. He doesn't deserve any rights because he is guilty, right?

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 10:25 PM

@29, the Miranda warning doesn't say if you're not given a lawyer, what you say won't be held against you. It doesn't make that particular connection.
Miranda warning:
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”

Thus, what you say can be held against you, lawyer or no lawyer.

sarah70 on May 10, 2014 at 10:35 PM

"He was denied access to a lawyer and he wasn't Miranidized." This isn't a right. Being Mirandized is simply being given a warning informing you of your 5th and 6th amendment rights. The cops are legally allowed to interrogate someone without their lawyer present under the concession that none of the interrogation is admissible in court. Read the fucking article "Gerard T. Leone Jr., a former state and federal prosecutor who has worked on terrorism cases, said the defense motion may be moot. He cited a passage in the filing indicating that prosecutors have told Tsarnaev’s team that the government does not plan to use his statements at the hospital during the trial or sentencing." The prosecution isn't planning on using anything from that interrogation in the court case nor sentencing, so NO RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED. Fuck you are stupid.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 10:37 PM

@46: Access to a lawyer and being Mirandized is a right, you dumb fuck. Do I need to again mention the FBI document where they feel they have the right to use non-Mirandized statements and statements where a lawyer was explicitly denied in court?

You simply pooh-pooh this and try to convince the rest of us that our rights our protected. Thanks Lindsay Graham. But I'd rather have our rights respected by decades of caselaw.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 10:48 PM

@46: Btw, have you talked to Carmen Ortiz? How the fuck do you know how the information was obtained?

It is interesting that 90% of your posts have occurred today on this topic. What could inspire such devotion? Dare I say that you are astroturfing?

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 10:54 PM

"The Miranda warning is part of a preventive criminal procedure rule that law enforcement is required to administer to protect an individual who is in custody and subject to direct questioning or its functional equivalent from a violation of his or her Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination. In Miranda v. Arizona, the Supreme Court held that the admission of an elicited incriminating statement by a suspect not informed of these rights violates the Fifth Amendment and the Sixth Amendment right to counsel.[Note 1] Thus, if law enforcement officials decline to offer a Miranda warning to an individual in their custody, they may interrogate that person and act upon the knowledge gained, but may not use that person's statements to incriminate him or her in a criminal trial.Template:384 U.S. 436"

I'll repeat that last part: "Thus, if law enforcement officials decline to offer a Miranda warning to an individual in their custody, they may interrogate that person and act upon the knowledge gained, but may not use that person's statements to incriminate him or her in a criminal trial.Template:384 U.S. 436"

And the prosecutors themselves have stated that they don't plan on using the public safety exception.

Please do yourself a favor and learn your rights.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 10:54 PM

@49: Thanks for the astroturfing. How much are you paid per post?

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 10:57 PM

What the fuck are you going on about now!? Astroturfing?

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 10:59 PM

@51: I guess it is just a coincidence that 90+% of your posts have been on this topic (and post) and have been defending the FBI and DOJ?

You are clearly a troll who registered solely for the purpose of your sponsor.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 11:01 PM

Seriously!? I first registered to post about transgender rights and awareness (because I am a trans woman). Those 90+% posts are because I got roped into arguing with an idiot who apparently learned about constitutional rights from television shows and movies. You are wrong. You have been wrong this entire thread. Just admit it.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 11:11 PM

@53: I respect out Constitutional principles and our legal principles. If you had followed Slog long enough, you would have seen this. Your entire posting history in the last day supports undermining this. It is clearly your view that legal representation and protection from self-incrimination are only important if you are innocent. If you are 'guilty', then you feel that the government has the right to abuse you as necessary. And if that 'abuse' is illegal, you are willing to wait decades for it to work its way out in court (just like it took decades for the MASSIVE ABUSE of stop-and-frisk to be stopped).

You clearly have no respect for civil rights. You only respect power. If the government doesn't allow a prisoner to have an attorney or 4th Amendment rights, your view is that it doesn't matter unless that prisoner is convicted (in which case he could spend decades in prison going through appeals which almost certainly wouldn't work). You are a tyrant and and evil bastard. You pretend that you are wise from a legalist perspective, but you are incredibly naive. The only thing that you truly support is the present. You have no ethical or moral principles whatsoever.

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 11:24 PM

Your critical thinking is about as bad as those on the far right. I've made my point several times, and you apparently can't read or something. But yeah, keep lashing out at the imaginary injustices against Dzhokhar.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 11:35 PM

Dzohkar is likely guilty, but his case also undermines the rest of our legal system. I don't care about Dzokhar, I care about our government respecting the Constitution. I am disturbed that people like Carmen Ortiz are so cavalier about throwing out Miranda warnings and using the so-called public safety exception.

Obviously, you are not disturbed by this. The only thing I can say at this point is that I recommend you think about this through an ethical lens. If you are a person who supports restricting the right to legal representation to 'really bad people' then I have to wonder what rights you would actually support. When do you think our Constitutional protections apply--when you think a person are innocent? What is the point?

delirian on May 10, 2014 at 11:49 PM

In this discussion, it is irrelevant what miscarriages of justice occurred elsewhere, because they don't pertain to Dzhokhar. You know, the topic I stayed narrowly on this entire thread despite your attempts to derail?

Don't presume my feelings about the public safety exception because you don't know my feelings about it. And you don't know my feelings about it because I haven't talked about my feelings of it because it is irrelevant in context.

Just The Same on May 10, 2014 at 11:58 PM

Michael Sam drafted in the 7th round by St Louis Rams.

Hanoumatoi on May 11, 2014 at 1:02 AM

@57: You appear to have a rudimentary understanding of legal procedures, but you still fail the ethical test. The entire point of my discussion has been how Carmen Ortiz and her vermin undermine the Constitution, perhaps not by explicit legal methods, but by intent. The point where you decided that you did not need to discuss the ethical issues with restricting attorney rights and refusing to Mirandize the defendant is the point where you lost me. You have pretended that Carmen Ortiz and her filthy fucking ilk only decided to refuse to Mirandize Dzohkar because they had enough evidence. The truth is that they did invoke the public safety exception and they did refuse to give Dzohkar his rights purely for political reasons. Sure, he is a bastard. But don't pretend the prosecution isn't political. It is. Carmen Ortiz decided not to Mirandize Dzohkar nor give him the right to an attorney during questioning purely because she didn't want to appear weak. You have deflected from this point several times during this discussion. If you wish to continue discussing this, then answer me why it is acceptable that rights can be withheld for political purposes--specifically for this case where there was no reason not to give the Miranda warning nor to restrict attorney access. Goodnight.

delirian on May 11, 2014 at 1:07 AM

It's pretty obvious that neither delirian nor Just the Same are lawyers, because you've both got the law wrong on this. Just the Same happens to be slightly more correct, albeit for the wrong reasons.

I'd be happy to educate you on this so you actually do understand the law, but then I'd have to send you a billing. I don't do this shit for free.

Fifty-Two-Eighty on May 11, 2014 at 4:15 AM

@48 "It is interesting that 90% of your posts have occurred today on this topic. What could inspire such devotion? Dare I say that you are astroturfing? "

and its the same with you, you fucking dick-sneeze.

pot/kettle type of thing me thinks.

on May 11, 2014 at 8:31 AM

@60 You are right. I'm not a lawyer. I would sincerely be interested in hearing about how I'm wrong though. I mainly understand the issue through articles like this one.

Just The Same on May 11, 2014 at 10:01 AM

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