The one time I got to hang with you, Charles, you tried making small talk with me, also terrible with small talk. It went nowhere & I felt bad & have been kicking myself since for not expressing myself.
I am an American Smalltalk Champion, and I'm often met with the same stupefied looks. Many businesses push their employees to engage the customers, but you've gotta stay on script. Any comment that can't be responded to without thinking may grind the experience to a halt. I'm sick, so I enjoy these moments.
Smalltalk is out during commuting hours. People are in their routine, and in their heads. You can try, but you'll be catching them off.guard.
I'm going to argue that this is more a Seattle problem than an American problem. Also what Dougsf said.
You also might do better trying to chat with service workers you see on a more regular basis. I tend to engage in small talk with the folks at my local Met Market, but I've been shopping there a few times a week for eight years.
Good Afternoon Charles,
I've met you and conversed with you. I've found our encounters and subsequent conversations however brief, most pleasant. But, we don't engage in small talk. Like @4, I suck at small talk and probably don't like it as well.
I sense from your posting that you might NOT like it either ...subconsiously. Idle chatter isn't necessarily easy for all Americans. It may be that some Americans need something to loosen them up to engage in small talk. For me, alcohol comes to mind.:)
I am very very good at smalltalk. I learned it from my father. The trick is to have genuine compassion for the person you are talking to (not that kind of bullshit condescending compassion that is the hallmark of Colonialism "Let me help you." but actual compassion "Let me be here with you and listen to you." Then take their hints, and let them lead the conversation. Show genuine humility where they know something you don't -- for instance, I know nothing about sports, but I don't explain, when sports comes up, that I avoid sports because of my superior intellect -- which is kind of off-putting pretentious bullshit. I say "My sister is really into sports. Me not so much -- who do you like?" or "Tell me why that play was good?" -- and then, again, listen. People like to feel good, to feel connected, and to talk about themselves. Be pleasant, talk less then the person you are talking to (count your words if necessary), and affirm the person you are talking to. It's easier than you think.
@19, a convenience-store clerk does not have the time or the energy to deal with all that compassion and humility BS. But you're probably being ironic. I hope you're being ironic.
I am okay at small talk, but I tend to be pretty terse when I'm dealing with sales people. At the ferry the nice toll booth attendant will say "good morning, how are you?" And I respond "Fauntleroy" which seems okay, but they didn't really ask where I was going.
I have yet to figure out small talk in bars. Especially when the music is so loud I can't hear people talking anyway.
No, Sarah70, not ironic. It is not all that self-conscious after you do it a few times. People do it naturally with people who they feel a sense of immediacy with -- but to do it broadly (what in American parlance is called "The common touch" -- does require either being raised with it, or practicing. I do not practice it in my writing -- so what you are experiencing as irony is the fact that I am advocating for a mode of communication that I am not using -- but that is because I am writing and not attempting to connect with you in any immediate way.
I've worked counter job, and as a waiter, and I promise you, even lowly counter workers appreciate compassion and humility.
@23, the condescending way in which you taught us how to talk to people is what got to me. And that condescension is present in your later post also, because you're assuming that I don't do what you're talking about -- when it is appropriate. Because I was raised in a working-class family, and have held those counter jobs also, and in some of those jobs, for customers to do what you describe in such detail is just overwhelming, because there's often a line of people behind that customer. That's usually the "immediacy" experienced by the clerk. And using the phrase "the common touch" is in itself condescending, no matter whether you're merely thinking it, or writing it.
I've learned that, in supermarkets etc, you let them start the small talk. For some reason, they don't do well with the concept when you initiate it. It throws them a curve ball, like they're not expecting it, and you get the deer in headlights face. If they initiate, then and only then can you reply with inane banality.
If you had asked me yesterday to name a person who I thought would suck at small talk, I probably would have said Charles' name first. He seems to treat humanity as an affliction, not something to be appreciated and even enjoyed.
Perhaps Charles it was just that you went on about how all the pidgeons in the city are some kind of pirate then you called the library racist and then you then you thought you sensed some kind of intelligence so you went on for ten minutes about how the literal bone in a monkeys dick means that god really does exist Oh Boesy at times I fancy sunlight is a laughing djinn driven a trifle eccentric by its own brilliance and I wonder why I myself fail at being an artist in all parts of life mabye people are weirded out by you sometimes because you dont know youre insane
@17 pretty much ID's the situation: Americans all want to talk, but nobody listens. So Americans having a "conversation" is basically a group of people standing around, drinking, not listening to each other and impatiently vying for the next moment they get to talk again. It's very unsatisfying. And boring.
The best thing you can do is STFU and listen to them, and perhaps ask inquisitive questions. Be careful of who you do this to, though, because the person will start to like you (I've been listened to! :D ) and you may have difficulty getting rid of them if they are an annoying personality.
@22 - I too have a problem with people saying "good morning, how are you?". 98% of the time they don't actually mean "how are you?", it's just a glib way of saying 'hello'. So what response are you supposed to give? "Fine!" That's what. Even when you feel shitty, tired, out of sorts, etc. So they are asking you to lie to them for social convenience, I hate it. I never ask "how are you" unless I actually want to know, and I don't answer the question except with a hearty "Hello!" or "Good morning!". Don't ask me to lie to you. It's stupid.
@28 - Wow, you really are a condescending person aren't you. Jesus. Why would you even say that?
Maybe you should have brought up the weather instead of going on about her body shape or building types or whatever the fuck it is you think about in your spare time.
So, in answer to your question Charles: It's hard to know why you aren't good at it without having seen you in action, or at least reading an accurate transcript.
If I were to hazard a guess, you may have been trying to tell them something, as opposed to asking something. Or it may have been a moment that was inappropriate for small talk. And yeah, I'd avoid it on the buses around here, generally. Esp. during rush hours.
I've been a cashier for most of my life, so I've had to get pretty good at small talk. There is a "isn't it silly that we're saying these absurd things, but we really do appreciate that we're each wiling to make the effort" sort of ironic detachment with most people. The only thing that really throws me for a loop is the people who think they've just had this stunning revelation and they have to share with me that they've just realized that I *don't* care if they found everything they were looking for, and I *don't* care how their day has been. What can you say to that? I try to insist that I do, because I do enjoy my job for the most part, and that's part of my job, and everyone's just trying to get through their day, but it always sounds false even to my ears. It always makes me appreciate the people who know this isn't the favorite part of anyone's day, but we might as well try and make it as pleasant as possible for each other.
I'd echo @10, replacing the annoyance with fondness, probably because I'm from New Orleans and I miss winding conversations -- sometimes emotional, often really surprising -- with people I don't know. That said, I'm disturbed when it's clear that someone is talking -at- me -- talking just to talk because I look or act like I'll listen so they just go on and on. That's not the culture in the storytelling south -- humans connecting with humans -- even for a few minutes --- is a different deal than WORDS ON AIR ON EARS. It's the same with the East Coast, I think.
All this to say: I don't think there's anything wrong with only asking questions that there's no scripted answer for (who writes the scripts??). And even if you were, as someone suggested, "telling" the cashier something, what's wrong with that? An observation, statement, or even declaration from a writer I respect sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.
@12 I'm with you about Seattle and Washington. I was noticing this last time I was in the Bay Area, including that shopping and interacting was less stressful, and more entertaining.
Charles, I'm sure you would have much better luck in many other areas of the country. People are likely to be more curious about you, for one thing. I don't know why this is so, even in Seattle, where such a large percentage of people come from other parts of the country.
Agree with @17, take a genuine interest, and try to be a nice person. It worked well in NYC. People in Seattle do seem awkward. To me, it's less about suspicion than anxiety they are going to have to respond like a human being (robot nerves). Everyone has their limits, and you can only control your actions. Be kind, rewind.
Sometimes I'm just really in a zone where I want to get what I want and go, and the "how are you" will throw me for a loop. Sometimes I'll do what you do and say "tall latte" instead of responding to the question; other times I'll really rush through the obligatory "hello, how are you, yadda yadda". I always feel vaguely guilty when this happens, but I figure, of all potential rude customer behavior, that ranks pretty low.
@38,
It's just the culture here. I'm usually okay rolling with it, especially since sometimes the fake nicey-nice you get elsewhere is also kind of grating. And I will say in defense of Seattle is that it's very rare when you encounter someone who's explicitly rude or nasty.
I haven't found Seattle to be that different from California or Oregon, as far as smalltalk goes -- it's colder here for deeper interactions, and people don't smile as much on greeting as other places. I also really disagree with the whole "I'm busy here, leave me alone." idea -- there are definitely some of those kinds of people working in customer-service jobs, but so long as you aren't hitting on them, telling them your life story or trying to sell them Amway people in Seattle, in my experience, love a little positive, friendly, light touch casual banter.
There are some definite turn-offs -- talking too loud, or too insistently, going on over a large or complex point before the person has actually signaled engagement, being overtly judgmental, negative, self-involved, manic etc. People who work with the public get a good nose for who is going to be uncomfortable to interact with. But again, I don't think those are regional so much -- or even peculiarly American.
On more than one occasion I've replied to a cashier's greeting of, "How are you?" with a "Fine, and yourself?" To which they've replied, "Good, and you?" I've never had the balls to reply back, but rather will always just try to facilitate the transaction and avoid any additional awkwardness. One of these days though, and it's gonna be freaking awesome.
@17 is right. Small talk is just being genuinely caring and interested in others. I love small talk with strangers, it's a nice way to connect, smile, and exchange pleasantries. But I'm not offended if they're not into it. I love the very American way people go, "Heyyyy!! How are you?!?" " Great!! How are you?!!! It's SO nice to see you!!" It's SO specific to the U.S. I love it.
But Charles, what's with the "you Americans"? You are an American, or did you block it out already! :)
You're not missing much. Maybe you are just kind of a weird guy; that sure beats being a racist internet asshat, like a staggering number of the commenters here.
I like making small talk, and making it into 'big talk', but I think the whole idea of trying to impress people with clever small talk, 'being good at small talk', is dumb and stuck up and shallow. That's what I think in reaction to someone saying to Charles that he (supposedly) makes bad small talk which I doubt. If someone's starting to talk to you out of the blue and is not being annoying or rude about it, and is sincere, don't take that for granted
To be honest, I'm surprised Charles didn't go with the "As a cash attendant, she is an agent of capital, who cannot comprehend the ideas of a Marxist black man" explanation.
You say "American Small Talk" as if there is a small talk you are good at. Is there? I am fluent in both American and Caribbean small talk, but I admit that Eastern European and Russian Small Talk elude me.
Seriously. Try sharing some casual feelings with a Czech guy some time. Like talking to a piece of plywood.
@51: Usually your comments are pretty full of bile, but this one isn't. :)
Thank you for the phrase, " mossy forgotten left hand corner in the clouds". That's beautiful.
Small talk is easy if you initiate the encounter with something other than what you described. When you pull into a convenience store for a pack of smokes and a 5 hour energy drink, try being a little contrite and pull out the right change. Chances are the person behind the counter is Asian or Pakistani and a lot of them don't have the cultural or language skills to pick up on your "wannabe your buddy" routine. Just buy your shit, smile and go away.
#SlogMissedConnection
Smalltalk is out during commuting hours. People are in their routine, and in their heads. You can try, but you'll be catching them off.guard.
Bless you for your efforts.
You also might do better trying to chat with service workers you see on a more regular basis. I tend to engage in small talk with the folks at my local Met Market, but I've been shopping there a few times a week for eight years.
I've met you and conversed with you. I've found our encounters and subsequent conversations however brief, most pleasant. But, we don't engage in small talk. Like @4, I suck at small talk and probably don't like it as well.
I sense from your posting that you might NOT like it either ...subconsiously. Idle chatter isn't necessarily easy for all Americans. It may be that some Americans need something to loosen them up to engage in small talk. For me, alcohol comes to mind.:)
I have yet to figure out small talk in bars. Especially when the music is so loud I can't hear people talking anyway.
I've worked counter job, and as a waiter, and I promise you, even lowly counter workers appreciate compassion and humility.
The best thing you can do is STFU and listen to them, and perhaps ask inquisitive questions. Be careful of who you do this to, though, because the person will start to like you (I've been listened to! :D ) and you may have difficulty getting rid of them if they are an annoying personality.
@22 - I too have a problem with people saying "good morning, how are you?". 98% of the time they don't actually mean "how are you?", it's just a glib way of saying 'hello'. So what response are you supposed to give? "Fine!" That's what. Even when you feel shitty, tired, out of sorts, etc. So they are asking you to lie to them for social convenience, I hate it. I never ask "how are you" unless I actually want to know, and I don't answer the question except with a hearty "Hello!" or "Good morning!". Don't ask me to lie to you. It's stupid.
@28 - Wow, you really are a condescending person aren't you. Jesus. Why would you even say that?
If I were to hazard a guess, you may have been trying to tell them something, as opposed to asking something. Or it may have been a moment that was inappropriate for small talk. And yeah, I'd avoid it on the buses around here, generally. Esp. during rush hours.
YMMV
I'd echo @10, replacing the annoyance with fondness, probably because I'm from New Orleans and I miss winding conversations -- sometimes emotional, often really surprising -- with people I don't know. That said, I'm disturbed when it's clear that someone is talking -at- me -- talking just to talk because I look or act like I'll listen so they just go on and on. That's not the culture in the storytelling south -- humans connecting with humans -- even for a few minutes --- is a different deal than WORDS ON AIR ON EARS. It's the same with the East Coast, I think.
All this to say: I don't think there's anything wrong with only asking questions that there's no scripted answer for (who writes the scripts??). And even if you were, as someone suggested, "telling" the cashier something, what's wrong with that? An observation, statement, or even declaration from a writer I respect sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.
When I talk about going off of scripts, I'm not talking about unnecessary confrontations with anyone, just to be clear.
Charles, I'm sure you would have much better luck in many other areas of the country. People are likely to be more curious about you, for one thing. I don't know why this is so, even in Seattle, where such a large percentage of people come from other parts of the country.
Sometimes I'm just really in a zone where I want to get what I want and go, and the "how are you" will throw me for a loop. Sometimes I'll do what you do and say "tall latte" instead of responding to the question; other times I'll really rush through the obligatory "hello, how are you, yadda yadda". I always feel vaguely guilty when this happens, but I figure, of all potential rude customer behavior, that ranks pretty low.
@38,
It's just the culture here. I'm usually okay rolling with it, especially since sometimes the fake nicey-nice you get elsewhere is also kind of grating. And I will say in defense of Seattle is that it's very rare when you encounter someone who's explicitly rude or nasty.
There are some definite turn-offs -- talking too loud, or too insistently, going on over a large or complex point before the person has actually signaled engagement, being overtly judgmental, negative, self-involved, manic etc. People who work with the public get a good nose for who is going to be uncomfortable to interact with. But again, I don't think those are regional so much -- or even peculiarly American.
But Charles, what's with the "you Americans"? You are an American, or did you block it out already! :)
Seriously. Try sharing some casual feelings with a Czech guy some time. Like talking to a piece of plywood.
Go back east and I guarantee you will find people talking to you on the street. That's where most Americans live anyway.
http://sperglord.files.wordpress.com/201…
Don't forget that you live in one of the weirder places in the U.S. -- the mossy forgotten left hand corner in the clouds.
Thank you for the phrase, " mossy forgotten left hand corner in the clouds". That's beautiful.
I like that comparison.