Except the Russian military has the black boxes. Everybody can dance but to me it's clear as day.

"It's frustrating that all this is unverifiable, behind-the-lines reporting on social media"

Isn't the problem also that you and your man in Kiev report what some social media say but ignore others like those discussing the German public TV report about the maidan shootings or those discussing the apparent massacre in Odessa or those debunking the NYT photo story about insurgents? It's fine to speculate but what about showing some critical thinking about your sources, especially when their bias has been demonstrated?

@2, Isn't the problem that Putin's trolls are sending out tons of misinformation in an attempt to muddy the waters?
Fuck Putin and all his little trolls.

@2: focus. this plane, this tragedy.

there are lots of problems in Ukraine, but Collision and The Stranger don't amount to a hill of beans in comparison. you come off as more concerned that people aren't being fair to Cossacks with SAM launchers.

@4 This plane, this tragedy cannot be isolated from their context. I think I have made my concern very clear, which is to have a balanced approach rather than regurgitating white house press releases and hearsay emanating in Kiev.

@3 right, only Putin has trolls sending out misinformation about Ukraine and you KNOW exactly what's going on.

@7 - I wouldn't expect any less from you given that you have the acumen of a stump. Score of people have been dying in Ukraine over the last 6 months, yet it is only now that you are outraged by the senseless killing. Pretty selective outrage, there buddy. You remind me of Obama who today rightly declared that the downing of the plane was an "outrage of unspeakable proportion" yet also "hoped" that after 300 Palestinian casualties, including ~40 children, "Israel will continue to approach this process in a way that minimizes civilian casualties."

@5: so i'm supposed to think "well, russia denies it, and says it was ukrainian AA. sounds plausible. so who knows? a pox on both their houses. i guess i'll just forget it".

which is precisely the kind of gish gallop/alternative set of facts/fair and balanced/rupert murdoch bullshit that russia's propaganda aims to achieve.

@9 - No, I never suggested as much. It is likely that the rebels did it (although we will have to wait to be reasonably sure) but none of this means that if Russia wasn't enabling the rebels there wouldn't be civil strife as Brendan keeps claiming. Some people resolutely want to ignore that many Eastern Ukrainians don't want to join a free market/security agreement with Europe but it isn't going away. Despite what many of you keep claiming, not buying into the Western narrative on Ukraine doesn't remotely means finding Putin sympathetic. I have made abundantly clear that Putin is a dictator (and I have done so before the Ukraine crisis reached a crescendo) but I still think that eastern Ukrainians have the right to not follow their western counterparts into austerity and being the cheap labor of Europe (the average Ukrainian earns less than the average Chinese).

four words:
lusitania
gulf of tonkin

@11 - I'll go you one better: Iran Air Flight 655. Am I the only one who doesn't remember this? People should re-familiarize themselves before getting all high-and-mighty about how righteous we are. Mistakes happen.

Putin has lost control of some thugs he amped up; yes, there was civil unrest in eastern Ukraine where there is a plurality (but a minority for sure) who are not keen on breaking ties with Russia and re-aligning with the EU, but nothing on the scale currently taking place without substantial meddling and enabling by Putin. Sure, the western Ukrainians aren't saints either, but there would not be the level of civil unrest/war taking place now without Putin's interference...and they sure as hell wouldn't be shooting down airliners.

@12 - "eastern Ukraine where there is a plurality (but a minority for sure) who are not keen on breaking ties with Russia and re-aligning with the EU"

I don't believe one can make this kind of statement until some political stability has returned; being squeezed by pro-Russian separatists and military conflict isn't conducive to having a nuanced position regarding ties to EC or Russia.