Savage Love Letter of the Day: Blown Apart

Comments

1
"if blowjobs aren't something your girlfriend wants to do, BLOW, your options are to accept that fact or break up with her "

Very good. Now compare and contrast with:

"oral sex comes standard, any model that arrives without it should immediately be returned to the lot."

Dan can't order her to blow you, but this should make it perfectly clear that you won't be forfeiting your Decent Human Being card by breaking up with her over this.
2
I'm thinking he needs to enlist a strange gay man to blow him. And let her watch. Or not, if that's not what she's into, but if it isn't a girl she would t feel as threatened, and guys are supposed to be better at them right? Since they own the equipment? (Seinfeld references date me).

3
I once reminded my dentist that I had a world class gag reflex (therefore I was going to gag if he wasn't careful when doing his dentistry). He laughed and said, "You're not even in my top ten". I'm guessing that gag reflex isn't the real reason LW's girlfriend won't do it. That's just her polite excuse for "Ewwwww, no, it's just gross, sorry". She has a right to feel like that about it. Like Dan says, LW has to decide if it's a deal breaker or not. He's not going to change his girlfriend's mind.
4
On the other hand, you have to balance that with the fact that you might discover, after having dumped her in order to obtain the freedom to experiment, that blowjobs might not even be your thing, Some people don't find them all that wonderful, regardless of the skill of the person giving it. If she is really fabulous in bed in all sorts of other ways, this might turn out to be a really bad bargain. Be advised accordingly.
5
My personal feeling is that it is hard to feel sexuality comfortable with someone who thinks your private parts are too icky to put their mouth on. Unless they are a really picky eater.

So I kind of agree with the "oral comes standard" argument. Especially for someone with low self esteem.
6
There are tons of regular/plain ol/whatever girls that don't want to give oral. Without some other compelling reason, you just have to consider that she's one of them without any particular reason.
7
she might change her mind, I did. Early in my sex life I was in a relationship where I was under huge pressure to give head, and it was painful, boring and he was super selfish about it After leaving him I promised myself that I never had to do that again. So I'v always told any new guy that I do not like giving head and don't really do it. If he's gracious about this then I'm safe to relax, knowing I'm not going be harassed about it. Over the years I've practiced giving head to these laid back guys, and I've come to like it quite a bit. Given that I have a small jaw and a strong gag reflex I almost never do it too completion, but it's a fun part of foreplay...
8
I agree with @4: one great BJ or a series of lousy ones are no match to a true relationship. Come on, you moved across the nation to be with her, she's helping you come back to normalcy, you are recovering your lost self. Giving up BJs is a fair price to pay, in my view. What are the chances you'll find another great companion? Don't give her up, pay the price.
9
Unless she has some kind of traumatic history associated with forced oral sex, this girlfriend is straight up being shitty.

There are plenty of techniques that involve giving oral attention to a cock without having to try to swallow it. Even just paying some licking/kissing attention to the head while grasping the shaft firmly can be a very lovely thing.

If you really love someone, you're willing to try something for them even if you think it's gross. Licking a guy's taint does nothing for me. But I've done it upon request, especially if we're both in the shower and have just gotten all clean together, because I want to please him.
10
Blowjobs are wonderful and all, but I generally see them as an appetizer and not the main course. It would be far more difficult for me to stay in a relationship that involved blowjobs but no intercourse than the reverse.

Have you considered putting it out to your partner that you don't need to come in her mouth but would like her to try giving you just a little head before intercourse as a warm up? That is what 95% of the blowjobs I have ever gotten in my life were about.

You're only 30. This MAY be the last relationship you ever have in your life, and it may not. If you and your current partner do stay together for decades, I guarantee that the relationship will change a lot over that duration. I would not frame your situation as "I must have head now from my current partner or I will never have it in my life". Your relationship may end. Your partner's attitude may change.

As a man in my 50s I can tell you that if my partner were not willing to warm me up with a little head, we would not be having sex very much. It's just not as easy for me to rise to the occasion as it used to be. However, once I DO get going I last a lot longer than I used to. My partner generally has several orgasms just from intercourse. Given that situation my partner is pretty happy to warm me up with a little head, even though it's not really her thing. Your partner may come around also as your bodies & libidos change over time.

11
@5 I wouldn't say that, necessarily - I love giving head and I think my own smell/taste is disgusting. (Differing biology down there and all, but still. I'd probably make a terrible lesbian.)

BLOW, have you actually sat down and talked about it? Does she object to the taste, the implied degradation (how some people interpret the act), the whole idea of having your genitals within touching distance of her mouth, or what? Is she willing to even kiss your dick, or is that too much? I think "I don't like the idea of you coming in my mouth" is a valid issue, but "ewww I won't even kiss you when you're just out of the shower and I'm touching nothing but clean skin" is totally different - and should be treated differently by both you and a therapist. (And for god's sake, find a new therapist!)
12
#9. Seriously, oral attention is about a lot more than swallowing. It is about the combination of "wet and warm" with the ability to focus attention on a specific area. Anybody with a tongue and a hand can do it.

Being GGG means not ruling things out just because you can. Sex shouldn't be about proving to your partner that you are worthy of a specific act.
13
I really wish the lw had told us whether he knows that his gf had once had a traumatic blow job experience.
I understand that you can't and shouldn't try to make someone do something they find horrible or traumatizing. I would never suggest that the lw try to incorporate regular blow jobs into their sexual routine. I acknowledge that the odds that the gf's blow job skills will be sub-par are huge.

But jeez: they love each other, and he just wants one lousy blowjob (which, even though it most likely will be lousy, may get him off due to the sheer novelty and the mental excitement of finally having his cock in his beloved's mouth). He wants one before he dies, which suggests that he's considering making a lifetime commitment to this woman, so I assume that this is a serious relationship. He's also about to turn 30--the beginning of what seems to him--though not to me--like middle age, and he never had this act, which is in some ways all about pleasing him, not about him pleasing his partner, as has been his wont. It seems to me a pretty little thing to do, unless there's blowjob-related trauma in the gf's past. It's a one-time thing; can't she do it as a birthday present?
14
#11 we have been taught that we are gross. But if you hear it from a SO how does it make you feel?

I think it's sad that as a society we've let this idea that women smell bad continue, and so many women are disgusted by their own bodies. And if I don't think it's fair to women, why would I think it fair to men?
15
Well, this was a quick turn around! LW here.

So, we did read this together and contrary to the belief, this wasn't a way to find an ordered blowie. We were in therapy for other reasons that worked out and I worried I was overemphasizing the importance of that experience. She hasn't had traumatic experience, she just doesn't really want to. Swallowing isn't the issue, nor is mouth cum, she just doesn't want to and so far hasn't been swayed, but has grown to pretty much expect it to her. No kissing, no licking. For that matter, not really any tugs either unless I move her hand down there.

Needless to say, it's led to a bit of bedroom issues and we're going to seek another therapist or just try to spend time out of the bedroom to sort of miss each other and see if that'll help. We also aren't returning to that therapist, so don't worry--it wasn't my idea to go to begin with, which I suppose is some sort of irony.

As many have picked up, yeah, I'm going into this assuming it's a for-life relationship and, well, I had a feeling I was placing too much value in the act. Outside of the bedroom, we actually do really well as a couple. That's why I felt conflicted enough to write.
16
"including one (online relationship) where the 22 year old girl ended up being a 34 year old married man"

Is there any other kind?
17
So now the LW has responded that is "there is no there, there." i.e. the GF doesn't have any particular reason or strong dislike of BJs. "she just doesn't want to". 10 minutes into cunnilingus, with my neck getting a little sore, I might not be having the most fun, myself. But if she is (having fun), then I'm into it. And sometimes, there are things I'm not into, but like changing the oil in her car, I'm fine that I do things for her at times.

LW previously dated someone so controlling she got physically violent and raped him repeatedly. Now he's with someone who won't scratch his very understandable itch, ONCE, nor give him a one-time hall pass. That's either very self-centered - "I'm not doing anything I find mildly bothersome" or controlling behavior - he's attracted that kind of GF before, but probably it's both. I'm more familiar with the dynamics among battered women, where abusers often seek out the disadvantaged, down-and-out, or fish-out-of-water victim - victims that don't feel like they have any options, like our LW here.
18
You have to do well in the bedroom too. Sexual compatibility matters, and if things are problematic now they are likely to get worse unless you resolve the core issues (if possible).

Many a marriage has fallen apart because one partner suddenly realized they had never had great sex and it was on their bucket list. Make sure your bucket list is clear before you the the knot.

You want to let it go, I can see. But the fact that she limits your pleasure to things that also bring her pleasure is going to limit your bedroom options pretty significantly, so think hard about what those options are going to look like 30, 40 years from now.
19
At some point she may warm up to the idea of giving it a little lick before you stick. If you dump her because you really take her at face value of never ever wanting to give head, you'll never find out if she changes her views a few years further into the relationship.

I'm just saying, people change. She doesn't want to give head, and you should accept that. But if you dump her because that's really actually the dealbreaker that's gonna end it all (hint: if something like that is a dealbreaker, maybe it's not the love of your life?), you're eliminating any possibility of finding out if she changes her mind. Or if tittyfucking her turns out to be just as much fun.
20
Never marry someone because they might change.

I know several people who did that and they are all divorced now.
21
If she won't even touch your dick, she needs to find out what the deal is there. You don't have to LOVE dick to be in a relationship with a dick-haver, but if you can't even acknowledge it/touch it, something is off. It sounds like there's some sexual repression there.

How does she feel about your sex life? Is it coincidence that there's no mention of whether she's satisfied or not?
22
This boy has a sense of humour- right away, you know he can move it.
Really, I think your girlfriend is a little mean. And an uncircumcised cock as well? What is she not seeing?

The weight issue. Always think it's best to try to get rid of extra weight. It's not good for the heart, the body.

But the blow job, she should just have a play to start, just lick it- see that it won't bite.
And, she'll find some pleasure in giving you pleasure, even if it takes her a while to enjoy the experience for herself.
23
Okay, LWhelp, now that you've clarified a bit more I think the problems are much worse than you originally conveyed.
This woman doesn't seem to be into you. Or not enough to overcome what seems like a bizarrely phobic response to your penis. She won't kiss it, won't lick it, would not even touch if you didn't force her to, and she won't even offer a plausible or--even worse--pathetic reason for her rejection.

You say that seeing a therapist together was not your idea, so I assume that your girlfriend is/has been unhappy about some aspect of your relationship, and it could well be that sex is a far bigger problem between you than you're trying to have Dan and us believe, or perhaps than you're trying to believe yourself.

But sexual incompatibility is a really big problem, one that gets bigger and more important as time goes on--not less. Any dissatisfaction great enough to lead you two to therapy, to lead you to write a sex advice columnist, to lead to statements like: "she just doesn't really want to. . . it's led to a bit of bedroom issues and we're going to seek another therapist or just try to spend time out of the bedroom to sort of miss each other and see if that'll help. . . . Outside of the bedroom, we actually do really well as a couple" is something to take seriously as a big problem.

The first several sentences are honest: the sexual incompatibilities are problems for this couple; the last sentence, the one I emphasized, looks like an attempt to downplay the issues so as to justify staying in this relationship.

LWhelp, are you sexually satisfied in this relationship? Do you feel desired? Do you feel desirable? Those are important questions. If you don't feel desired, you stop feeling desire-able, and then your feelings of hurt from being rejected, even passively, subtly like this, will lead to resentment and will eat away at your self esteem.

You aren't yet 30. You've got a long life ahead of you. Lay everything out, get everything on the table. Really address this issue in a deeper way than just your wish for a blowjob, because it's really more than that, and believe me, it's going to end up being <>b>much more than that in 20 years' time if things remain as they are now.
Give it your all: if you two can hear each other and really try to reach a solution that works for both of you, that's great. But if you can't, break up now. Don't waste the next 20 years of your life.
24
@ 13 - "It seems to me a pretty little thing to do, unless there's blowjob-related trauma in the gf's past. It's a one-time thing; can't she do it as a birthday present? "

My thoughts exactly. And now we know that there's no BJ trauma in her past. So if she can't even be bothered to give him birthday oral, I'd say the LW is settling for too little in order to settle down.

And even though I don't enjoy receiving oral that much, I think the therapist was right. She probably realized that the LW would never leave his GF because of all his issues, and offered him a pragmatic alternative.
25
Oh. I didn't read other comments before I posted. Seems like more trouble afoot.
26
He had a horrible girlfriend who was sexually violent. Now he has a wonderful girlfriend who is sexually, let's say, mild. Why do you all want to change her? If she doesn't want to put his dick in her mouth, that's up to her. No reasons, trauma, gag reflex, or history needed. She. Doesn't. Want. To. And no amount of pressure from internet strangers should make her change her mind.

Maybe the reason is gross and she doesn't want to share. I'm an adventurous woman, and I'll enthusiastically do pretty much anything my husband asks. But I won't lick his asshole. You know why? Because I did that once in college and got pinworms. Seriously. Any time I even consider it, all I can think about is the worms, 20 years later. Never told the husband because it's gross and none of his business. Just nope, don't wanna lick your bum, sweetie. Not gonna do it.

LW, you picked this girl. You love her. Quit making her feel bad. She has her reasons, and "I don't feel like it" is a legitimate reason.
27
nocutename, are you kidding? The bedroom issues are from him pressuring her to blow him when she made it clear she doesn't want to. How about if he stops asking her for what she already declined, then he won't feel rejected.
28
PinkMotorcycle, you're right: I don't want to is a legitimate reason, and no further elaboration is needed. But. It sounds like this woman isn't attracted to him, or has big sexual issues. I wouldn't just say she is sexually mild.
It's true he picked her, and it's true that he previously had an abusive relationship. But I think that even though he has to respect her "I don't want to" response/attitude, it's still a big warning sign of rough seas ahead that she doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with his penis.
29
@4 Great comment and great point, avast. Well-deserved shoutout from Dan there!

@21 I sort of agree with this comment about the dick. Not fancying blow jobs is one thing -- I can even vaguely relate, from a very bad relationship with fucked-up bj dynamics, although I adore giving them now -- but not wanting to touch your dick seems...weird. Off. Maybe a specifically sexually oriented couples therapist for the next go-round?

LW, you said she's a good lover, so maybe we're reading too much into that, but I hope you find a way to be as wonderful for each other in the bedroom as you are everywhere else -- whether that involves blow jobs or not. As avast said, you might not find they're all they're cracked up to be. I've had some partners pretty indifferent, and at least one really actually unable to come from them, though he likes them. Sometimes they're built up a bit much by the buzz from other dudes with other dicks and preferences.
30
Well. I think she's still being mean.
Won't touch his cock and won't let anyone else touch it, either?
I'd be pretty pissed off with a man who didn't want to touch me with his mouth. I wouldn't stay with him.
31
I don't want people to think it's all pressure presure, force force from me. I admit I'm curious, but no means no. I did ask why, due to the fact she expects oral as a part of foreplay and that doesn't apply to me, and all she's ever said is she doesn't want to. And yes, that is fine.

The therapist was her idea for us for me to try to feel more sexually fulfilled. I have trouble reaching orgasm sometimes, due in part to my past and sometimes I'm not really worked up enough from the lack of foreplay. We went to try to find out my issue and basically it came down to the relationship being super emotionally fulfilling and sexually... I'm happy to be with someone I care about but that's about it.
32
Does she orgasm? Does she LOVE the sex you have? Is she asking for it, or telling you what she wants? Or is she just kinda going along? Do you know?
33
She does orgasm and she does love it, yes. She's very happy.
34
Has she had other lovers? Did she touch their genitals, with hand or mouth? If yes, any chance those other lovers were women?

Someone who isn't willing to engage in any foreplay on her partner, and yet expects regular oral on her, just seems like a dud in bed, not a good lover. And yet you say she's a good lover.

Are there things you aren't telling us, that make her believe she is GGG in specific other ways you haven't brought up (say, she wears diapers for you, or jacks you off with her feet?)
35
More: Will she let you talk dirty in bed? Will she talk dirty in bed? Will she talk about touching you and jacking you off and licking your cock? Will she at least let you talk about her doing that to you? Or does she not even want to imagine any of those things?
36
She's had one other lover, she never performed oral on him. They actually only hooked up twice before they broke up, so 99% of her experience is from me. No girls, though she is curious and I've said she's free to experiment with girls.

I say she's a good lover because I'm emotionally fulfilled. Yeah, most of the time it's me bringing her to orgasm with oral then she just sort of takes it until she gets off a few times unless I do first, so in the grand scheme of things, no, she's not a good lover, but yes, she's a great partner.

And no, nothing kinky behind the scenes. I'm very bland in what I like sexually and just do what she likes.
37
Well, then she's just a beginner. Have you ever sat together with the lights on and looked and touched each other's body? She may just need time to get comfortable with your equipment.
38
We've done that a bit, yeah. She can be fairly sensual, but once it gets down to her touching me in a sexual way, she tends to stop pretty fast and just wants me to touch her.
39
@15: Either your girlfriend isn't attracted to you or she's really quite terrible at sex. Don't be surprised when whatever sex you are having now dries up completely.
40
@LW

I'm glad you click in so many different ways, but your girlfriend is extremely selfish sexually. She is neither good, giving, nor game. The more you post, the more I'm convinced that no amount therapy will help because this isn't a talking problem, it's a doing problem. What needs to be done for you to be sexually fulfilled is to have a partner that's willing to touch your penis. I wish you good luck.
41
After reading the responses from LWhelp it does sound like this may be more serious than I thought from reading the initial letter. It's really difficult to make a judgement call based on a couple letters, but it does seems like the girlfriend is not really into *giving* pleasure, only into receiving it. She sounds a bit shut down sexually. That may seem safer to LWhelp because of his history with abusive relationships - but there are lots of different flavors of abuse. I'd caution LWhelp that he may just be bouncing from one unsatisfactory extreme to the other.
It also seems likely that the counselor thought this relationship was best ended, considering the advice she gave. The counselor, who presumably sat face to face and talked to both LWhelp and the girlfriend for at least a couple hours, would be in a better position to know than anyone on this site ....
42
Oh. So little missy gets oral, which brings her to orgasm!
Not good enough LW. Not for you.
I'd just refuse to go down on her anymore, till she returns the favour.
43
@38: You have just simplified your problem greatly, into two sentences:
1) "she tends to stop (touching me) pretty fast," and
2) "just wants me to touch her"

The problem is that your girlfriend is a selfish prick.
44
@31: "she expects oral as a part of foreplay and that doesn't apply to me, and all she's ever said is she doesn't want to."

No, it ISN'T fine. She's a selfish hypocritical prick, and you are perfectly within your rights to refuse to go down on her until she is as willing to please you as you are to please her. Either that or dump her for being a selfish prick. Right now I am rooting for the latter. It will be character building for both of you.
45
@34, Erica: Yeah, I was wondering about the self-closeted lesbian scenario. She's curious about women, has VERY little experience with men at her age, and an apparently distaste and dislike of penises.

He's not conventionally attractive (as a man to straight women) but to a not-yet-out lesbian, what does male sex appeal matter? They're good friends, great together out of bed, he services her sexually on demand and he will accept her lack of reciprocity - that may be as much as she can imagine in a LTR. If she's never had the hots for someone, a friend who can serve as a human vibrator seems better than nothing (but not worth touching an icky penis for).
46
I don't mean she has to blow you , LW, a most unfortunate term, but she has to
Touch your sex, with her mouth.
If she can't or won't accept you on that level, I think you have to move away from her.

47
The thing that bothers me, LWhelp, is that your girlfriend doesn't reciprocate in some way. Reciprocation doesn't have to be tit for tat - she doesn't have to do the same things to you that you do to her. But it sounds like she can't or won't actively do things to pleasure you. All she does is 1) receive oral and 2) let you fuck her PIV. She gets to orgasm from either activity, and maybe you get to orgasm, maybe you don't.

If you genuinely don't care about whether you come or not, or it is a price you're genuinely willing to pay for all the other wonderful aspects of your relationship, then maybe this relationship has long-term potential. If not, I concur with several other commenters that resentment and dissatisfaction are likely to build up. The feeling I get is that your girlfriend's attitude/position makes you sad.
48
LWhelp: You've been through some really rough shit, bad enough that anyone who isn't a complete shit to you might seem like water in the desert. But a partner who doesn't reciprocate and doesn't show much interest in your sexual pleasure isn't much of a partner. She might be a good friend, but it sounds to me like you've been beat up so much that the bar for what constitutes a good relationship is on the floor and you might be settling for less than you'll really be happy with in the long run. I'd suggest you get some more solo therapy - not couples therapy - to work through your own bad experiences and your battered self-esteem, and then start working on taking better care of yourself and learning to believe you're entitled to a better life than you currently think you deserve.

This line stood out to me:

When I decided to get back into dating, I was unemployed, living with my mother, in the worst shape of my life, and in therapy for trying to get used to being touched again.


That sounds like a terrible time to start dating. It sounds to me like you have some more work to do on yourself. Then maybe you'll be able to be a good partner to someone who genuinely wants to be a good partner to you in the bedroom as well as out of it.
49
what about a little real world compromise? find a non-sketchy strip club. be a good client, get a private (champaign) booth, and for a few xtra bucks you can definitely get some mouth-to-member action. if only for a few minutes. you can at least check it off your list, see if it really matters that much, and maybe take the edge off a bit. it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world, eh?
50
You guys both need therapy. You need to figure out how to stand up for your own needs in the bedroom (with people who don't fulfill you, not people who assault you. That's not your fault). She needs to figure out why she is dick-phobic.

You're not going to be long-term fulfilled in a relationship when you have sexual difficulty and she won't touch you.

We all have things in the bedroom that were just not into, but our partner's erogenous zones shouldn't be among them. That's kind of a show stopper.
51
LW: a lot of the comments are urging you to break up. Sexual compatibility is important, but it does NOT grow in importance for every couple and it is NOT static. My experience is that it DEPENDS on the couples and there are all sorts of paths in LTRs so that over the long haul big problems early can become less of an issue (for some).

Relationships that are totally monogamous can over the long term open up, priorities morph as you grow together and life happens, sex drive can go up, down, up, down over the years, interests change (for some).

Plus, if it's just the sensations you want to experience, see if the GF doesn't mind a same-sex BJ -- you could probably find a gay chubby chaser into straight men and make sure he's recently shaved / not a hipster with a beard, more easily than you could find a woman to give you a BJ. You still need to get tested after b4 you have sex w/ GF again.

Some people fall in love easily / are attractive partners so ending it and moving on is good advice. Some people fall in love rarely and/or aren't that great a "catch" so if you've found someone, it's worth working on it!

No "right" answer but sounds like you have a lot of other issues and love won't exactly come knocking on your parents' door... good luck!
52
@2 yup. the Stranger the better :-)
53
@LW, this isn't just about the sex. You're dating someone who doesn't care about whether you're having fun or not. Stop doing that, and don't do it again.

You don't have a lover; you have a Friend With (minimal) Benefits. Tell her from now on, you'll accept PIV (provided she does all the work) and you'll accept receiving oral, but other than that, sex is off. Forget where her clitoris is, since that's irrelevant to you now.

That's a joke, because what you should actually do is skip all that, and just break up. You started dating at a low point in your life, and so you attracted someone from the low point in the partner quality scale. A person who grinds up your self esteem isn't just someone you don't need in your life, it's someone you need to not have in your life.
54
#52, I thought it was a good idea, but I never did really get aggressive monosexuality. It's a cultural thing I never picked up.
55
M?s Star/Delta - Change it to a strange bi man; much better. It would avoid playing into the ugly connotation that gay men's highest goal and purpose in life is to service straight men (LMB, LMB, FTWL, LMB).
56
Mr Whelp - Know the price, pay it if you want, and don't have children until you're satisfied at a much higher level than now. My cosmic vibrations show me a vision of your having an LTR that works well enough for your other issues to sort themselves out, making you ready and eager to move on to someone more reciprocating.
57
#55 There have been enough suggestions that he find a woman to service him, including the therapist. I don't think there are any people out there waiting impatiently to give him a BJ. He's going to have to offer something in return no matter who he gets it from.

I see the unattractive image you're painting, though, and will clarify that if he is, actually, aggressively monosexual (actually averse to touching a guy), he shouldn't consider it. Because taking pleasure from someone you don't actually want to touch, and who you're not willing to offer reciprocation to, would be rude.
58
@57: "Because taking pleasure from someone you don't actually want to touch, and who you're not willing to offer reciprocation to, would be rude."

Agreed. It seems to be the whole problem, really.
59
LW - It is really self-centered that even though this GF knows you have never had a blowjob (and therefore NO frame of reference... translation: she has zero pressure to give you a good one), she still isn't willing to take 10 minutes out of her life to do something selfless for you. I am not a fan of people overdoing it with their boundaries. It undermines the whole experience. It doesn't sound like you are pushy...so for that reason, she doesn't even have to tell you its never going to happen again. I can picture her finally going down on you, and pausing every few seconds to remind you that its a one time thing. Ick. You really sound like a good guy and a ggg lover. You are too quick to dismiss your own needs in favor of hers...and too accepting of the hollow reasoning. I absolutely hate painting.... hate it. It can literally make my blood boil... but when my partner wants the room a different color, i pick up the brush... because we are partners... and its a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.

I also tend to agree that perhaps she is a closeted lesbian. That possibility would not have occurred to me solo, but the other commenters make a good point.... and i was actually in a relationship like that in college. When she came out, it answered a lot of questions i had about myself in that relationship. Pain...but mostly relief
60
I'm late to this, but want to chime in in support of @17, @34 & @44 (and I don't really care if she reads this): she sounds like a selfish or at least not very good lover. And you know, being experienced or technically skilled isn't the issue. but being unwilling to even try what your partner wants is good grounds to be dumped.

So, here's a little more tough love, especially along the lines of @44 - which Dan didn't highlight.: you're being a doormat. You are clearly accustomed to being one, right down to moving across the country for an LDR. While it's OK that she says "nope, no blowjobs, ever" and it's right that Dan not order her to - it is more right for you to dump her for not giving you want you want.

You need to treat yourself with the same respect you treat her with. I'm gonna guess you don't treat yourself with much respect (growing up fat, and the way you talk about yourself as a fat person). Dan's best bit of advice in here was "love yourself"; please ditch the couples therapy; get yourself into individual therapy and start to like/love yourself. Maybe lose weight, maybe don't. Any relationship requiring therapy before the kids and marriage should just end. Not because you want to find out what a blowjob is like, but because it's already on life support and there's no reason to keep it alive.

After getting your relationship situation straightened out (and please do not panic about turning 30), then if you want, find another woman (or a bi man) to blow you. Yes, for many of us it's a take-it-or-leave-it thing.

Good luck.
61
Late to this as well but for someone bringing so much baggage to a relationship being upset about not getting blown seems petty and possibly an excuse to hit the auto-destruct button.

Sounds like she's into you and into doing other things as well. Ask her to become a hand-job goddess instead. 10 fingers instead of a tongue and can buy toys that can provide suction.

Besides, you never know what will happen in the future. Her sexual peak is coming up and many people expand their repertoire as the relationship goes on.
62
I think it would be good for the therapist (this was couples counseling wasn't it) to explore why she doesn't like to give blow jobs. Does she think they are nasty or has she had unpleasant experiences with past partners? And might she consider a few licks or sucking of balls.

I am a gay man who doesn't like giving blowjobs -- I have a mounth that is rather small and I get a terrific headache when I have to keep my mouth open real wide. But I work to please my partner and will suck some and lick his balls,etc. But I would never give him the mind-blowing half hour blow job he might like. And I am not that much into getting them. I don't think I could ever come from just a blow job. My parner really likes to suck dick however.

But I also sympathize about things being off the table. I am never going to stick my tongue in his ass. But it should be noted that we have an open relationship (I am monogamous and he is monogamish) and he is free to go elsewhere fhis kind of thing.
63
You know, it hadn't occurred to me that the girlfriend might be a lesbian, but after reading some of the posts, especially the one from DAVIDinKENAI, I think that might be a possibility.

Other thing to consider: If she's had almost no sexual experience, then regardless of her chronological age, she's probably much like a teenager in some ways. Many teen girls are fairly penis-shy until they get more used to them. The thing is that most boys would probably be more forceful or insistent that their girlfriends learn to touch them. It sounds like LWhelp, for his own reasons, is used to being passive and doesn't seem to feel as though he has the right to expect or demand satisfaction.

I agree individual therapy is a great idea for both of them, and then perhaps couples' therapy. (I don't agree that a couple that has therapy before being married or having kids is one that should just end. This relationship perhaps should just end and it might just end, but I don't think that kind of blanket rule should always be applied.)

It's possible that LWhelp is just so grateful for someone who's not awful to him and someone who's not sexually domineering and abusive that he is willing to overlook or minimize all the ways in which he's not being satisfied in this relationship; it's possible that at first the gf's sexual passivity was a welcome relief--he knows she won't pressure him or force him sexually in any way, and he's used to being the pleaser.

Look, @31 LWhelp says: "The therapist was her idea for us for me to try to feel more sexually fulfilled. I have trouble reaching orgasm sometimes, due in part to my past and sometimes I'm not really worked up enough from the lack of foreplay. We went to try to find out my issue ," and I submit that his issue, his reason for not being sexually fulfilled, his reason for having trouble reaching orgasm sometimes is because
(a) the gf won't touch him, so he's not getting enough physical stimulation
and
(b) he senses that the reason she won't touch him is that she isn't really sexually attracted to him. I don't know that the problem is one that needs therapy to fix; I suspect if there was some foreplay for him or some manifest desire for him, that problem reaching orgasm sometimes would resolve itself.

It's interesting to me that the gf was the one who wanted this issue of his sexual dissatisfaction solved through therapy, but she isn't willing to interact with him sexually at all except to be serviced by him. And then naturally things can turn out to be his fault--his old wound that needs healing.
64
Has anyone else thought that if you reversed the genders, LWs partner would be the biggest cliche of a selfish, douchey, DTMFA boyfriend?:

"When we have sex, I regularly blow him, then we move on to PIV until he gets off. But when I ask him to finish me off by going down on me, he refuses because pussy is gross."
65
@64 - DrV - we definitely have a lot of double standards when it comes to allowing someone to think their partners private parts are gross. Like you, I have a hard time believing a man would be given as much latitude if the roles were reversed. "He doesn't have to give you a reason why he refuses to go down on you".... riiiight.
66
@DrVanNostrand and ChairmanOfTheBored: I don't see a lot of double standard at play here. Most of us are giving a variation of DTMFA albeit one that tries to ask some other questions to understand things better first.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe that people are allowed to like what they like and to not like what they do not like and if anyone has an aversion to a particular sex act, that aversion should be respected. I think there is more than just a woman who doesn't want to give a blowjob here.

There are several side issues in this particular case: the lw's history of abuse, his history of what sounds like real or perceived unpopularity in the dating world, perhaps low self-esteem; a woman who has little sexual experience with penises and seems to have an almost phobic reaction to them and a dislike of putting any effort whatsoever into having sex or pleasing her partner; and the very real fact that for some men, blowjobs aren't all they're cracked up to be.
67
I have greatly increased the number of BJ's I get in my relationship by telling my wife that she doesn't need to finish me off like that. Removing the fear that I'm going to blow a load in the back of her throat has allowed her to relax and, to some extent, enjoy giving blowjobs.

If the LW is OK with starting with BJ's and moving on to sex he might make the same suggestion. Just tell her that you'd really appreciate her trying out giving a BJ and promise her that you will stop her well before you come. Then of course you have to follow through on that promise.
68
Nocute- agreed...this particular letter and the comments that follow it do not show much double standard (some though in the comments).

I would add- by pointing out that a double standard is common (which i believe it is, in our currently over-correcting society) I am not attempting to imply people are not allowed to dislike something for no good reason. I'm fine with people doing whatever they need to do, i, in turn, will do what i need to do.

After reading through many of the comments, i am inclined to think that the best advice for the LW is to love himself first...before he worries about her. (ala Finch's post 60)
69
@nocutename
I agree with pretty much everything you've written. Of course people like what they like and don't like what they don't like and the internet can't order anyone to give a blow job. I just think that a few people are bending over backwards to figure out why she thinks dick is gross, or suggesting more therapy, when the obvious fact is that she's 0/3 on the GGG scale. It's DTMFA or accept his crappy sex life.
70
There is a big expectation difference in how oral sex is spoken of.
If a man goes down on a woman, he just goes down on her. The implication being, it will last as long as it's fun, for both.
When a woman touches a man's cock with her mouth, she knows the expectation is she's there for the long haul.
A Blow Job, it ain't finished till it's finished.
So the woman's agency is taken from her from the start. She can't just stay as long as the experience pleases her and pleases her man.
Maybe, if that expectation was lifted, and men didn't expect to be Blown... Rather just enjoyed how a woman enjoys giving oral sex- than this resistance some women have, might lessen.
71
LavaGirl, I give many blowjobs not to completion. Lots of times they are just part of the sexual mix. Sometimes they're hors d'oeuvres before the main event; sometimes they are given just to perk the guy up again if his erection has softened (not at all uncommon for men over 50). Frequently, sex starts with one, as a sort of power-play, and segues into something else. Even when a blowjob is the last thing I do before a man comes, that doesn't always mean I bring him completely off with my mouth--sometimes he pulls out right before he comes and comes on my face or breasts.
I'm currently dating a man whose favorite way to come is during PIV intercourse. I've yet to have had sex with him in which his penis wasn't in my mouth at some point, but he has never yet come from a blowjob with me, which has been by his choice.
72
Lava.... echoing what nocute just said - from my own experience, 90% of the blowjobs i have received have been preludes to being mounted by her.... i.e. not to completion.... and those are just as fucking sexy as the start to finish ones...

I like to think i am being given a blowjob...not taking one.... i.e. its a gift...and a winner every time. If my partner had something i could do for her that would take up an hour of my life every month (i.e. the time it takes to give me 3 bjs)... a surefire way to make her feel sexy and wanted... i would do it no questions asked... but in my experience...that "something" for most women changes much more frequently than it does for a man.... i.e. if i said to her "what can i do for YOU in return?" - she'd say "let me think about it".... whereas i would say "bj!"
73
Then why call them blow jobs?
And what's with the " Job", part of it.
Giving men oral pleasuring, shouldn't be seen as a job.
74
@73: Do you actually blow on the penis? Like you were blowing out candles on a birthday cake?
So by your logic, why isn't it called a "lick and suck job?"
75
I just want to let BLOW know that I'm one guy who has never been into BJs--although I let my partner give them because ***she*** likes doing it. but I certainly wouldn't feel deprived if I never had another one. I much prefer a woman's gentle hand on my Great Communicator.
76
Looking back at the previous five or so comments, I would say that I never expect to be "finished off" with a BJ and I can probably count on one, or maybe two hands the number of times I've come in a woman's mouth in the 45 years since I became sexually active.
77
You know what I mean, no cute.
And a lot of men expect to get blown. Hence the word embedded in the phrase.
I'll just get rid of that word from my vocabulary. Along with menopause.
Oral Pleasuring; that's my to use phrase.
78
lava.... henceforth, i will refer to cunnilingus as flickwork.... yeah know... just to make it even. :)
79
I can say from experience that BJ's are not all they are cracked up to be in movies (porn or mainstream). Teeth just don't feel sexy and there is way less pressure and tightness than a vagina.
So to your gf: give him a hall pass to get a bare-back blow job from a sex worker (preceded by a conference call to planned parenthood about when he should come in for an STD screening after the BJ). That will enable to experience a top notch blow job and result in 1 of 3 outcomes:
1) He will find the reality to be less satisfying than expected and the two of you can have your oral-free relationship
2) He will find it nice but not so great that giving them up as the price of admission is worth it to be with you.
3) He loves it and it proves and the two of you are back where you are right now.
80
Dan needs to run some letters from women whose men won't eat pussy where he tells them to just put up with it or leave so we know things are balanced out after the recent anti-blowbjob articles. Personally, i always hated BJs, never found them an arousing concept of physically fun. But then I met my wife and discovered she really liked giving them so I put up with it. Then I started liking it. Then I discovered that she really liked face-fucking and now I absolutely love blowjobs. Sometimes it just takes practice and lots of messing around to find what you both like.
81
I wouldn't date a man who wouldn't go down on me, and I wouldn't expect a man to date me if I wouldn't go down on him. It makes the relationship lopsided. You can't only give, sometimes you deserve to get a little too.
82
@80
Are you new? Dan has been saying oral sex comes standard to both men and women, in print and on the podcast, for years.
83
@70: Cunnilingus, if done to completion, often lasts considerably longer than a blowjob. And if you don't think you're allowed to change gears before your completion, either you or your partner is doing something wrong.
84
when i met my husband he had never had a bj. i felt as though "every man deserves good head" too. so, i immediately corrected the situation. i think i'm pretty good at them and a happy provider, but it turns out he's not into them. he feels uncomfortable being on the receiving end of oral because i'm not getting direct stimulation. i disagree, but that's not the point. the point is, as a fellow man who's very giving in bed, you may end up feeling the same. and she may always change her mind with some patience. my completely unsolicited advice is to let the dream of head go for now.
85
@79: Doesn't sound like you've had a good blowjob. Teeth are strictly optional, and suction is very adjustable. But maybe they're just not your cup of tea.

I agree that a sex worker is a good idea.

@83: Oops, I meant "before completion", not "before your completion".
86
I'd rather not have a blowjob at all than get one from someone who is totally unenthusiastic about it and can't even pretend for my sake. That is like getting a back rub from someone who only pokes at you and pets you. No thanks

As a partial aside to all of this - it seems really common for the commentariat to suggest sex workers to couples or individuals struggling with sexual issues. Most common with letters that indicate a certain prudishness about common sex acts... That advice always throws me a bit... a catch22 of sorts... Seeing a sex worker seems like jumping into the deep end.... when so many of the LWs that get this advice are treading water in the shallow end... unrealistic advice for most
87
I would consider how important that bj is to everything else going for you. You've gone from abusive relationships to hating yourself to not even being touched, to finding someone who respects you and loves you enough that you want to be together forever and she's willing to get couples therapy with you to try to get through this. That is a lot to give up for a bj. So before you decide to go elsewhere for a bj, just be sure that the relationship is worth losing over a bj.
88
Regarding the double standard, he's given almost identical advice to women. If a guy doesn't do oral, that's his price of admission.

We all have things we don't like, but there is a different between "I don't want to do that regularly" and "I won't even do it once." They are based on different motivations. One says "I have a preference" and the other says "I have an aversion."

BJs are certainly not necessary to a good sex life, but being OK with your partner's genitalia is. It matters less that his partner gives him the bj than that she demonstrate that she can accept his body.

A lot of women are socialized to believe that penises are dirty and unattractive. It takes some time to get over that (and it doesn't mean she's a lesbian). But if she doesn't want to get over it, it won't happen. So it might be that penis aversion is her price of admission.

The POA is another way of saying that LTRs are best not kicked off with the desire to change someone. It usually doesn't work. Hope springs eternal, however.
89
I'm not sure if she's a user or she's being unfair. It could look fair to her if she thought PIV was as uncomfortable for her as oral was for him. Seems like she can't get off with PIV consistently. I see two options before deciding she's a jerk user. Take oral off the table unless you can't finish her off with PIV and gear PIV toward her tastes. Or take PIV off the table and only give her oral if her face is in your genitals, at least kissing and rubbing around if not sucking. The main idea being that both should greatly enjoy PIV and both should greatly enjoy receiving oral. Or he could just assume that she's a user and dump her. Whining and demanding are likely to do more harm than good. I'd say to make sure she clearly knew it was important to him, but the published letter should do that. One other option would be finding a fantasy of hers that he could fulfill, and offer to trade.

It would really bug me to not enjoy PIV equally. I think it would bug me to not enjoy oral equally as well... but I don't mind if most sex doesn't include oral, if my partner isn't very good at it.
90
Oops. Meant "I'm not sure if she's a user or she's being fair in a different way."
She might think equal pleasure for both is fair. And that PIV is more for him, and oral is more for her.
Or she might be a jerk.
91
I hope BLOW seeks individual therapy to discuss how he can stop participating in this pseudo-relationship and find confidence to look for a woman who will treat him better. His g/f sounds very selfish in bed, and her telling him he needs therapy to find out how to get over that is a waste of his time and any money spent. BLOW, you deserve a woman who is as invested in your pleasure as she is in her own. Your descriptions of your g/f do not sound like she has any interest in being that partner. A person who will not touch the other person's cock at all should be returned to the same lot the non-oral people go to.
92
Philo- for me, the notion that she might be a lesbian comes more from his stating that she is bi-curious... which indicates a certain sex positivity.... which in turn contradicts the penis aversion a bit.... in a roundabout way.... if i fill in all the blanks myself... lol
93
re my post 92- i refer to the LW's post at 36
94
Of course, BlowJob is not a phrase.
It just feels like one.
95
Quite possibly the worst possible situation would be that if he did find a willing partner on the side, and he *loved* getting his dick sucked.

It would be pretty much game over for this relationship after that. Her price of admission would just be too high.
96
#95 Maybe if he ever experiences really great sex, that might be the result. But maybe not? Maybe he is mostly asexual?

That's a possibility that hasn't really been raised, that he doesn't push for more in bed because he really isn't into it. In that case, maybe they are perfect for each other?
97
Chairman - Yeah I don't know about calling what she has "penis aversion" if she's happy to fuck one, to stick it inside her. She even gets off on that sometimes. I think orientation confusion is a stretch, she has explicit permission to experiment if she wants. I think the past assault theory is just as unlikely, but if so, he should get permission to outsource what she wants him to have but can't give him. If she just considers his sexual satisfaction unimportant; that would be a user. But it sounds like she might think oral is for her and PIV for him. I also got my theory from 36:
Yeah, most of the time it's me bringing her to orgasm with oral then she just sort of takes it until she gets off a few times unless I do first
Did you think my advice was bad? I'm not sure what your advice is, actually. Dump her and see if she dates women next?
98
Maybe this couple needs a temporary break up, cool off. She sounds like she has odd expectations on sex and intimacy and he seems like he's willing to take anything to keep her. Not a recipe for happiness. She can go get more experience and he can get a few blow jobs.

(I've been raped too, I'm very sorry that happened to you.)
99
@Philophile
In his own description, she gets off every time, sometimes multiple times. He has trouble reaching orgasm and the ONLY thing she will do try to get him off is PIV. Otherwise, she doesn't touch his dick at all, and if he can't get off, too bad. Yes, she's a user, and I think it's fair to say, has a bizarre aversion to dick.
100
DVN - Er yeah, they both seem to get off every time. And she has multiples sometimes. I still don't think it's clear that she's having more fun in bed than he is. But you could be right.