Well we got no class
And we got no principle(pal)s
And we got no innocence
We can't even think of a word that rhymes

Alabama hates that stuff too.

When you decide that your educators are worth less than the fry technician, though..

Don't forget to Give Big to KNHC - the Nathan Hale radio station

@1 if you are keeping up on the whole picture of public education, here's what to consider. Many other countries are nowhere near as diverse either racially or socio-economically. If you put our high scores against other nations scores, we do well. But when nearly 23% of American kids live in poverty, it has an effect.

As well, since the international test began, the U.S. has consistently scored in the middle. And remember, we got a man to the moon. First. With public education.

Our public education system is not in crisis. It doesn't mean things are great but we're certainly not failing.

I know you Stranger reporters don't leave Capitol Hill much, but FYI, Nathan Hale is much closer to Lake City than to Northgate.

@5: Explain how Canada does significantly better *all the time* on these international rankings, if multiculturalism is part of the cause.

At best, your argument reduces to "Our educational system is not in crisis. Our society is." The existence of crushing poverty and fantastic wealth in a society should not be excuses to do nothing about systemic problems that make it harder for kids to learn.

@8: Because Canada does not have a society as multicultural as the US, AND their more socialist government does a better job of providing funding for public education and other social ills that have effects on test scores.

Another factor to consider, most other industrialized nations that are compared on those tests segregate students into different tracks around middle school age; academics, trades and arts. The students taking those tests internationally are mostly in the academic tracks. In the US, ALL students take those tests. There are serious flaws with the data in those international ranking systems.

@8, what @9 said - there is also cherry-picking of who takes the tests in other countries.

"The existence of crushing poverty and fantastic wealth in a society should not be excuses to do nothing about systemic problems that make it harder for kids to learn."

I think I hear the voice of an ed reformer. NO ONE is saying that poor kids can't learn or that we should hit the pause button for public education change. But too many people refuse to acknowledge the effects of poverty on learning. You cannot fix one without the other. All the wraparound services in the world at school will not change what happens at home.

@10 - Absolutely not. I believe 100% in a public-only system that doesn't waste its time on endless standardized tests; and I also believe that the social inequality in the US, rather than its diversity, is the source of its problems.

Honestly I object to the suggestion that diversity is at the root of educational problems. It's disturbingly close to arguing that America should shut its borders even tighter than it already has.

It's not that cultural diversity is the only problem, it's just that it makes it harder to teach (and to learn) systemically.

The main argument that I'm trying to promote is that using these metrics to compare the US to the rest of the world does nothing but promote a false narrative. We definitely are NOT as low on that list as those scores imply. I've seen better data, using more varied indicators, that shows the US in the top 10 consistently worldwide, with a slight downward trend in the last 30 years.

I personally believe that the diversity in our public schools is the single biggest strength of our future as a country. The fact that we DO educate so many people from so many backgrounds as well as we do is impressive and beautiful. I don't blame diversity for our educational problems. I blame over-focus on standardized testing, lack of resources, poor teacher pay and myriad other socio-political ills for our education problems. And a few really shitty teachers that need to be fired (but that's blown way out of proportion in the media, too).