I have to agree with the above comments, and with Dan's position in general. If rape is degraded to any kind of sex we weren't enthusiastic about getting, then it loses its meaning. And I agree with Sylvia above: women need to take charge of their lives rather than keep repeating over and over again how they've been programmed to be nice girls. Tsk-tsk-tsk... Hey, grow some independence already!

Rape is really grey. You can't tell a girl that because it isn't classic rape, she should "get over it" and be grateful that it wasn't worse. In the same manner, you can bring up examples of little girls who were raped to their deaths and tell FR that she should stop whining. The fact that it can be worse does not delegitimise the scenario. Last year I was date-raped. It is a similiar story to that above - alcohol was involved, it was late at night, and there was only one bed. The fact is that non-rapists, upon hearing the word NO, will stop. Rapists don't stop, but get a thrill from the non-consent and proceed to hold a girl down and stick their dick in her mouth/cum on her stomach etc. You might say that because it isn't textbook rape there was no harm done, but the fact is that these same men are aware of this, and take advantage of the grey zone to force sex on a woman who would have chosen, had she had control of the situation, not to do so. The violent textbook rape I went through a year later felt very much the same. It isn't just the physical touch that repulses you; it is the fact that you're erased as a human being, seen only as a vessel for the man's desires, and are completely without control. The man penetrates you and hits you, but he can just as well torture and murder you - you are at his mercy. That is what makes rape so terrible and that, and not the sex itself, is what makes rapists do what they do. You have to keep this in mind when you judge if something was rape or not. It isn't just the manner or the question of penetration, it isn't the manner of violence used (because intimidation, coercion and inability to consent are the same). Hearing someone say that date rape delegitimises real rape survivors is like hearing nails on a chalkboard. I hope you understand that now

@5 - We do and you are absolutely right. I hope more people read and understand it. Those who "argue" it are just doing it to dig their heels in and defend their own OPINIONS and not looking at the whole - the big picture.

I'd call the ambiguous cases (like NYGG) sexual violation, but reserve the term rape for the more unambiguous cases of nonconsensual sex--cases where either it was clear to you at the time that it was rape, or where it wasn't clear to you only because you were drunk or drugged.