For C.R.A.P., I do think that while you continue your FWB situation, you should try and date other people too. Maybe you're different than I am, but if I were in your position I would not be able to separate the feelings for the Ex, and I would still "think" we are together even though it is officially over. So maybe that would help you to keep things in perspective.

Plus, it will make her jealous! (Aren't I mature!!)

And for S.C.I.L. - what a self-involved, narcissistic jerk. She feels ENTITLED to be answered by Dan?!? And claims he is IGNORING her, without any regard for the mountains of mail he gets? She things Dan has a responsibility to answer her mundane letter just because she is a cheating jerk?

I feel sorry for all the men she torments.

Dan, your comments to SCIL are dead on. Up to and including "THIS BITCH CAN GET LEGALLY MARRIED AND I CAN'T?!?!"

I read the rest of your advice, think your points are good, but, really, I don't care about anything after that. We are (being forced to) "preserving" and "protecting" marriage for that shit to happen?

Whatever Dan is paid to read letters like the first one, it isn't enough.

Sorry Dan, but in the ratings between you and SCIL, you are NOT the one who's selfish.

I guess she deserves some credit for at least considering the others involved, but then again, it sounds as if she's just as concerned with losing her cushy lifestyle as she is about her family.

Maybe she'll change. Maybe there'll be world peace. You'll probably be getting married first.

We can only hope... And keep trying!!

Re SCIL – having the Question of the Day on the SL app appear several weeks later as the lead letter in (and comprising the bulk of) the column is kind of a letdown, and maybe an indication that someone is spreading himself a little thin?

As someone whose parents "stayed together for the kids," I think that may have been one of the worst decisions either of them made. That wasn't stability. And it took me a long time after the fact to realise that that wasn't love.

That first letter sounds like a deluded ex-friend of mine. She creates a multitude of dipshit "dramas" and then when she ends up making a "mess" of her relationships, she rings or texts me in London, UK (she lives in Olympia) to do the "woe is me" and ask for "support" and my words to her never change: "you're either with your husband or you're not with him. Make a choice." This falls on deaf ears and I've tried to get rid of her 4 TIMES!!! Hopefully, this time, after I was once again accused of "not being supportive" when she texted me at 3:00 am to tell me about fucking some guy she "had a crush on" and I texted back: "tell someone else."
That letter REALLY sounds like her but her situation is slightly different in players but the delusions are your basic drama Queen/King, "how-do-I-get-into-these-messes?" type personality.

To #9: I for one don't care if it's recycled, it's one of my all-time favorite Letters of the Day and I'm glad to see it reach a wider audience!

I'm with @1. If he can fuck the ex and still be social enough with other people to have a life and possibly meet someone new, then no harm done.

@9 - Agreed. Only 2 letters and 1 of them was a SLLOTD weeks ago?! Totally weak!

I'm backing @1 CRAP and am going one further: it's not a FWB relationship unless you're both dating other people. If one of you is in a committed monogamous relationship that you tell other people, especially your partner, is FWB, you're both going to get hurt. If both of you are together and tell other people it's just FWB, it's not just FWB and that kind of lying isn't good for anyone.

The phrase "But what about the children?!" has never been more appropriate.

Awsome answers but only 2 letters?

Dan may have finally convinced me on gay marriage with this bitch.

As for the FWB: Agreed he should fuck everything in sight. It is a whole lot easier to get over the last good thing when you are already fucking the next good thing.

I hated that first letter the first time I read it. It feels like a waste of space. Dan's response, OTOH, yes. I've always pointed out the hot-mess, quickie marriages of Britney Spears, Larry King, et al, are legal, & laughable, yet my pals who are gay & been together for decades can't wed. Messed up.

No sympathy for that spoiled-sounding drama queen, at all, period. Her kids are gonna need some major therapy. I've whined before at re-run LOTD's, but that one in particular..grrrr. The gnashing of teeth ensues. No more words for her.

& FWB guy..when you ask yourself how you'd feel if she hooked up w/ another guy, be honest. I agree that post-relationship sex can be hot, but your feelings are still tender & vulnerable. Tread with care.

Dan's right about the first letter. That woman might consider trying meditation/yoga/other mindfulness practices. I know that sounds woo-woo and new-agey, but those techniques are designed to help you pay attention to the present moment and dispassionately take stock of what is an isn't making you happy. As opposed to constantly chasing imaginary future experiences that will give you exactly what you want & make all your problems to away. Which is what she's doing. Might help, might not, but it's better to try something than resign herself to dragging her kids through endless failed relationships.

*sigh*

People who are not monogamous should just figure it out and get over their shit already. I've never been able to remain monogamous in a relationship. But I married a man who's also non-monogamous. We've had our spats, as non-monogamy can be messy, but we haven't left a wake of ex-marriages to people we promised to be monogamous to, let alone dragged several children through that mess.

For as bitchy as she is though, she has somehow found herself in the perfect position. She's married to an attentive, stable man who loves their kids AND has been ok with her sleeping with someone else for months. A simple talk about polyamory, and she's got a marriage and a fun sex life on the side. What's not to like?

Oh, and shut up bitch for calling him the "worst person in the world" for her and then complaining that he's poor without an actual "worst" flaw in sight. Fuck off.

*sigh*

People who are not monogamous should just figure it out and get over their shit already. I've never been able to remain monogamous in a relationship. But I married a man who's also non-monogamous. We've had our spats, as non-monogamy can be messy, but we haven't left a wake of ex-marriages to people we promised to be monogamous to, let alone dragged several children through that mess.

For as bitchy as she is though, she has somehow found herself in the perfect position. She's married to an attentive, stable man who loves their kids AND has been ok with her sleeping with someone else for months. A simple talk about polyamory, and she's got a marriage and a fun sex life on the side. What's not to like?

Oh, and shut up bitch for calling him the "worst person in the world" for her and then complaining that he's poor without an actual "worst" flaw in sight. Fuck off.

The FWB situation is simple. If CRAP is screwing his ex while waiting for/trying to find a new relationship partner, he's golden. If he's screwing his ex while waiting for his ex to want a relationship with him again, then he's an idiot.

I suspect that he may be the "worst person in the world for her" because he dumped her once already.

"Serial Cheater in Love" sounds like too much of a self-absorbed asshole to even be capable of actual love. I feel sorry for her children and hope they grow up to be strong and self-reliant despite their absolute dipshit of a selfish mother.

I have no sympathy for shitty parents.

@27: It helps to be actual, genuine friends. I also think you don't need any specific set of rules as long as you both are clear on things. For instance, you could agree to talk to each other about other people you're dating or having sex with, or to not talk about them, as long as you agree.

The main rule, though, is to not try to exclude all emotions. You will have feelings for each other, that's what friends do, especially FWB. It's useful to develop ways of communicating that to each other, e.g., "You're such a great friend," "I care about you," since you've said you don't want to say "I love you."

For reruns I think SCIL is a great choice. I really enjoyed that comment thread. I doubt she'll read this one though, since she's either in total denial or still working through therapy from the last time 200+ people tore her ego to shreds.

@27: Remember to regularly check in with yourself about how you feel about the arrangement. It's great that you feel strong and level headed about it at the moment, but breakup emotions tend to oscillate wildly from the 'I'm over her' end of the spectrum to 'I'll never love again', so remember to look after yourself.
However, there's a lot to be said for winding a relationship down, too. Maybe the sex is necessary at the moment, perhaps it'll actually help you get over her.

@30: I often wonder how many LWs are totally shell shocked after they're ripped to shreds on Slog!

@ 9 I have to agree, very disappointing. I have noticed this is quite frequent, especially recently. I wish I could be as positive as 14 but I clearly don't have enough of a life.

While I agree with most of the advice given to SCIL, I think that this kind of person is where Dans logic falls down. The world does not divide into the monogamous and the non-monogamous so simply. She is a cheater, I am sure part of the enjoyment and satisfaction she derives from this is the cheating, something you can't get in an agreed non-mongamous relationship. If she didn't enter into monogamous relationships she couldn't do this. I really don't believe it would solve anything if she was in an open relationships, she would just find the way to cheat in that one too. I also don't think she is unique in this respect.

I think some people are just unable to have a functional relationship. She is delusional, her true love? went out for almost no time when she was 15 and treated her like shit? I take back delusional, she is bat shit crazy. She needs to get into therapy and try to create stability for her children. Also stop being so fucking selfish and put her children's wellbeing ahead of her own for once. Based on this she should stay with the current husband, since he will be able to pay the huge quantity of money required for this process

I don't get LOTD, so this is good.

I heart Dan. I'm waiting, after many years, to read something I don't agree with.

for CRAP -- really important rule: wear a condom, no matter what your birth control strategy was before. almost as important rule: don't SLEEP together. Just have sex and leave. As the "still in love" party in a FWB relationship with an ex, no matter how much we said "we're not together", the feelings took over when we were hanging out all the time (as friends!) and sleeping together, (just like we used to!). It made things much too complicated.

@22. As a 10-year practitioner of yoga, I have to express my serious doubts that yoga or meditation would make a difference with people like SCIL.

In some of the less serious yoga places, entitled drama queens like SCIL (of both sexes) still manage to make it "all about them", whether it is vomiting their personal issues all over the class, or constant groaning and demanding of the teacher's attention. And finally, the class can just become another opportunity to cheat and find affairs - maybe with the instructor.

It wouldn't hurt to try of course, and so it's still good advice in case it helps.

CRAP, I would advise against your FWB set-up with your ex because by using each other as your rebound relationship (which is what you two are doing), you are losing the benefits (the exciting single time where you have a good excuse to date a lot without worrying about intense romantic entanglements) while still having the drawbacks (rebounds only delay the process of mourning the lost relationship, when the rebound ends the mourning comes roaring back, for both relationships). Find another great rebound girl out there, don't cheat yourself out of the exciting fun.

Serial Cheater in Love has, as I like to think of it, "Bad boy Syndrome." This guy supposedly isn't good for her, he doesn't make enough money, he entered an affair with her....but she wants to throw away someone stable who seems to care about her.

Sounds like S.C.I.L. needs to get busy holding down a decent job or get a hobby that takes up more time that cheating does.

@13
"she needs to realize that the person she is now is not the person she was in high school"

normally I'd agree with this statement, but in this dumb bitch's case, she IS the same person: a self-obsessed drama addict. I agree that she's not in love with her "first love", she's addicted to the chemical hormonal reactions he caused and the ensuing drama of his douchey behavior.

still, i can't get too mad at her. like i said when this letter first ran, oh you silly junkie, what the fuck have you done to your life?

That first letter is possibly the best SLLotD pull ever (well, so far). Shame on you haters: would you prefer to go back to the days before SLLotD, where you had to wait a whole week to see two or three letters? The occasional repeat (hell, the regular repeat) is worth the trade.

@43 - " Dan's not obligated to write anything."

Huh? Actually, he is cuz it's, ya know, his job.

"I will not be ignored!" is exactly what Glenn Close snapped at Michael Douglas in "Fatal Attraction" -- so unless she's brandishing a meat cleaver or boiling a bunny, I doubt she's worth a whole lot of attention.

Oh, and I think Dan's mistaken when he says people expect a "level of respectful professionalism" from him. He almost never provides it, so why would we expect it?

It was worth Dan's time to answer just in case he's made life better for SCIL's kids....I just hope that if she does leave, her current husband has the balls to fight for primary custody.

@46, actually, Dan gets to choose *who* he writes back to.

And the first letter is such a fucking clusterfuck I can only imagine why he didn't write back the first time. This woman doesn't want to hear what he really has to say, and obviously has no emotional maturity to make her own decisions.

Spot on response to SCIL Dan... particularly with her having kids. 2 kids with 2 guys and she is banging another and writing woe is me to Dan. I cant stand people like her, not only because they make dating hell, but because eventually her ignored kids are going to be in school bullying my kids.

@46, actually, Dan gets to choose *who* he writes back to.

And I can only imagine, with what a clusterfuck that first letter was, why he didn't want to write back. This woman has no emotional maturity and probably wasn't happy with what he wrote back anyway.

SCIL should not be with anyone, she has no respect for others and deserves nothing until she stops putting herself ahead of all the others in her life.

To anyone with SCIL. I say DTMFA.

@ 38 - Meditation is to be done ALONE and yes, indeed, it is helpful for every single person on this Earth. Sure you can do yoga in a group and some even meditate, usually for guidance - but to achieve a heightened sense of clarity, being at one with "all there is" does not need the presence of other people. So, yes, it could be VERY helpful for this woman and people like her.

@ 40 - bitter much? It's a big ol' world and just because you sit around bitching and spewing your misogyny doesn't mean the world actually operates like that.
Like yourself and then love yourself and then you will see that "women" are the LEAST of the "problems" you've created for yourself.
Geesh.

Anyone who doesn't normally read SLOG and thus never saw the first letter a while back in Savage Love letter of the day, here's the link with all the comments... no punches were pulled there either:

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

@27, CRAP, one thing you might try is to propose sexual activities you didn't dare bring up in the relationship. If she shoots you down, so what? And just getting used to asking for what you really want in bed (and encouraging your partner to ask for what she wants) -- that's always a good exercise, good practice for when you're in a serious relationship in the future.

@40: right on. great job of painting a very clear picture of how things might look farther down the line. sure it's all fun and sexy now, but something is being compromised. "don't be that guy"- good advice. didn't realize it till now but the two letters, although radically different, and from opposite perspectives, are about the same issue. advice to CRAP is also advice to SCIL's current husband. DON'T BE THAT GUY.

Disagree, Dan. SCIL didn't cheat on "the love of her life" because he cheated on her first. That's also why he IS the love of her life. My advice to the husband is to cheat like hell, and then this cheating bitch will find you wildly attractive.

Hey CRAP, take it from someone who's been there, this arrangement is a bad idea. What would be an amazing boost for your self-esteem and emotional health is for YOU to break of this relationship with HER. That's right YOU are the DUMPER. I know you want her, but don't you want someone who wants you back? Forget the friend thing, you're too close and needy right now. Break off the FWB arrangment, tell her you don't want to see her for 6 months at ALL. And, I agree with @1 that making her jealous is a VERY satisfying bonus. Now... you just have to be strong enough to do it.

Anyone also notice that in SCIL's case husband no. 2 is the "mistress" (not sure what the word for a guy is) from her first marriage. Sounds like he's getting a little "what goes around comes around".

I'm always mystified by people that start relationships off with cheating and then are shocked that their co-cheater later cheats on them too! Yeah, you didn't see that in their character.

Sure, SCIL is a selfish bitch, but I'm not so sure that husband #2 isn't getting exactly what he deserves as well. The only real victims are the poor kids!

@ 27 - Personally, the only thing I'm worried about is that you didn't give yourself more time before entering this FWB arrangement. Like 6 months. Enough to get over her first.

As it is, it does sound a lot like 41 says, using your ex as your rebound. That can lead to a lot of trouble and heartache, which you might not be aware of since it's your first serious relationship.

My advice: Cool it off a bit. See her less often. And as others have said, date/fuck other people, suggest whatever fantasies you have when you're with her that you didn't dare to do before, talk together about the rules and limits you're confortable with (no one can decide that for you) and always be honest with yourself about how you feel.

As someone whose parents "stayed together for the kids," I think that may have been one of the worst decisions either of them made. That wasn't stability. And it took me a long time after the fact to realise that that wasn't love.

Word.

CRAP -- So long as you're still wishing/hoping for more from your ex -- that you'll get back together, even if you logically understand that you won't or can't, FWB is a BAD idea. Whenever one person wants more, FWB is a bad idea.

It could work out that you find someone else to date/fuck and end the FWB relationship, but more likely since you're not completely emotionally over her, she'll find someone first and break off the FWB. Then you'll feel rejected, like being dumped over again, but you'll probably beat yourself up for it too because you agreed to the FWB relationship in the first place.

Unless you can get to a point where you don't want anything romantically from her, FWB is always going to fail. It will just postpone the break-up sorrow/mourning and make you feel stupid and used all over again.

CRAP, you're better off without the FWB situation with your ex. Use this time to find someone new, not wasting your energy on a realtionship which you already know is a goner.

Frankly, given that your ex knows your emotional needs, it's a little cruel that she still wants to maintain a FWB arrangement. She's not all that, man- find someone better for you, who cares about what you want too.

@ 27 -- I'm not saying this to be antagonistic, but I think that entering into a FWB relationship with you is pretty selfish of your ex, considering the breakup is so recent and you weren't the one who wanted it. This is just textbook messy breakup stuff. She really didn't give you time to get over her before jumping back into bed with you. Right now you might feel like you're over her and everything is fine, but you're probably still going to have good days and bad days dealing with this. I agree with 67 that a bit of distance is a good idea. It's not the end of the world if you fuck a bit more and you shouldn't beat yourself up for it, but I wouldn't pour a lot of time and energy into developing rules for the FWB arrangement. I think it would be better to focus more on yourself right now.

@ 60

good pick up... Dan does have a little bit of the 'watch out for fickle bitches' theme going this week.

as far as CRAP goes, being the guy that is used for sex isn't all that bad, better than being the guy who is used for weed and emotional support and gets none...

not that I have any experience with that...

*coughs uncomfortably*

God - 4 words that make me want to vomit when I read it in these kinds of columns: "Love of my Life".

And usually its some dickwad that they're still holding a fuck torch for making the lives of everybody currently in their lives a living hell.

The only reason SCIL believes here "first love" is perfect for her and that she'll be in love with him no matter what is because she never hooked up with him. A lot of people like to imagine that the "one that got away" would have been better for them than any of the later ones that didn't, solely because that relationship never got the chance to end up exactly as disappointing as all of the other ones. There's no way this guy could ever live up to the romantic fantasy she's been spinning for all of her adult life.

Wow. I don't really care whom that stupid bitch in letter #1 fucks or fucks over for the rest of her pathetic life... but I do have one thing to tell her:

Get your fucking tubes tied, you selfish twat.

Good lord, what an awful woman. She's so fucking narcissistic that she can't even just wreak havoc in her own life--noooo, Dan fucking Savage to acknowledge what a stupid cunt she is.

Also, what the fuck kind of person marries or even dates somone who keeps talking about her stupid true love who, if he shows up, she'll dump you for in a second? I call some bullshit there. Seriously, if I were dating some asshole who said, "you're nice and all, but if Mindy from sophomore English, who is my ONE TRUE LOVE, ever turns up, consider yourself dumped," I rather think I'd say, "speaking as chicago girl from RIGHT THE FUCK NOW, make sure the door hits you on the way out, you pathetic childish fuck." I imagine everyone on this board would say something similar. The "true love" dude must be more amused than any anything else--he dumps her when they're kids and somehow she's his slave for life! He should to rob banks for him or something.

Oops, I meant to write he should get her to rob banks for him. Sheesh.

Spot on, Dan to your comments to SCIL--and, uh, heh-heh...over the years, to me, too.

This is one of many reasons why I love your column! You're straight up front, take no bullshit, and no prisoners! Rock on!

I haven't eaten dinner yet, so my mind may be too fuzzy to write about SCIL, and yet I just have to. I can't believe this woman has been pining over a guy who dumped her half her life ago and she made sure everybody knew she'd never gotten over him. I won't even call him a douche because I assume he was also around her age. So, hey, a fickle teen. Not surprised.

She sounds like a human version of a dog that really needs to chase a car. Oh, lookit, I want that red one. When the dog manages to catch up to the car, all the fun is gone. It's just a stupid car. Until a blaze of a different colour speeds by and the dog is once again distracted and compelled to chase it, to win the prize, leaving the car the dog had been so wild over moments earlier.

Yet, all along, the dog can't give up hope that it'll find the One. True. Perfect. (Love) Car, the one that ::shnuffles with sad puppy dog eyes filled with mock tears:: ABANDONED THE DOG all those years ago. But, wait, what's that turning around the corner. It's -- it's -- THE CAR. And it stops to let the dog into the car. The dog is beside itself with excitement. And just to emphasize how it must be TWU WUV, the car never let anybody else ride in it (okay, so I'm really stretching it to include the lack of marriage), which means that it was meant to be all along.

Still, the dog isn't completely over the abandonment, calling the car a "jerk". And, to make the decision to stay with the car now more awkward, the car doesn't even sleep in a pretty, properly heated garage (this is a VERY important thing to the dog, twu wuv or not). It's more like a carport. How will the dog ever cope. Can the dog allow itself to be subjected to such a rough existence. And what of the other cars, including the last one the dog had caught. There are pretty collars and leashes and puppies that the dog is going to abandon. But, no, that doesn't matter, not where THE CAR is concerned.

Yeah, TL:DR (and awful crack!fic on my part), but OMFG, SCIL needs to GROW UP. High school was 16 years ago. This guy was no prize then and he's no prize now. Which makes me wonder if he's using her obsession over him so that he won't seem like a loser who's not able to attract or keep a woman. As for her current guy, he seems to be behaving as if he'll be seen as a loser too if he can't manage to hold on to her, so he's become a sweetheart instead of dumping her. Both guys are delusional because she's NO prize.

Even worse, in the front row seats are the poor kids who are witnessing this. Who knows what kind of whacko behaviours they're going to emulate when they grow up. SCIL needs to face reality. She has children and responsibilities. But somehow I don't think she will. Until the next time (oh, I can see Dan groaning, "Please shoot me now") when she writes, demanding that Dan read the latest craziness in a mockery of marriage, etc., etc. and fix it to her liking.

It's amazing how SCIL deceives herself into believing that the lost first love is The One when she admits that he's "the worst person in the world" for her. If so, what the frak is she looking for? She's lying to herself AND attempts to do the same to Dan and us, readers. In my opinion, she should just top pretending and jump into maturity by restraining herself and remaining into her marriage.

As for CRAP, I don't think it is healthy to remain in FWB arraignment with his ex. She's using him and would not hesitate to break his heart again. He's better off looking for someone else who really loves him. He should feel good about himself since his ex decided to stick around, only she's not The One.

CRAP: What EricaP said in @59, but I would up it a notch...

Fuck the woman this way and that. Do all of the dirty, nasty, verboten things that you wouldn't do before. If she won't go there, leave the friendship as well as the sex. What the hell do you have to lose, your unrequited feelings?

Move on in any case, and fInd a new partner who you can bond with romantically. If your FWB will let herself be used in the meantime, then use her. She's using you as an emotional crutch while she searches for someone new...

For CRAP, check yourself emotionally. Only have sex when you are horny and NOT emotional, because you have to distinguish the sexual bond from the love bond... I'd keep it infrequent, actively go out apart from her and seek other people, even other FWBs, instead of her... and be ready to dump her as soon as a good sex partner comes around, regardless of whether the sex partner is a good emotional fit... she is only there to theoretically fill one role OR the other, not both, so if someone else fills even the sex only role, bam, ex is useless to you in any skin to skin way. If you wouldn't dump her for a casual sexual encounter with someone else--when that other someone could turn into a relationship (who cares if it starts with sex or emotion if both ultimately get satisfied? We're all wired differently and cross wires in sloppy ways every time)... if a casual fuck buddy in another girl is in any way less appealing than "what you know," I'd definitely get out, because you can NOT expect new people to match what took the two of you a lot of time and energy and emotion to develop into... so while I don't condone just fucking the first thing that comes around, I do embrace fucking the first thing that you'd fuck if she were permanently 5k miles away, which is sort of how FWB has to work since ultimately, the minute one hooks up with someone else, boom, the other is made very scarce if not non-existent. When one of you DOES find someone else, and it's probably going to be her since girls have far less trouble finding willing mates, it will be very awkward to just casually talk, so expect that whether you do it now or later, you're going to need a time to officially and entirely sever the connection to cleanly move into your future partnership(s). I can't do FWB if I'm emotionally vulnerable, and I agree on the no sleeping over (apart from inebriated, one on the couch, no cuddling type) idea... if I still had feelings for my exes--and of course plenty of times I did--I couldn't stay around them--I can't even see FB statuses about "is in a relationship with" or "went to this spot with this person that could be competition" without it making me itch, but if you can, color me impressed. I would hope she'd be nice enough to have a separate list with you on the "block" list so anything involving dating doesn't get advertised to you in a bright bold knife face font.

CRAP,

Don't call it FWB... call it what it is: breakup sex.

You can go ahead and fuck eachother as long as you both feel good about yourselves and the experience, but it is way to early post-breakup (especially for you) to try to flip the switch and take all feelings out of the equation/make it only about the sex. There *are* still feelings, and if you try to fit your feelings into the FWB mold you'll end up regretting it because it "shouldn't hurt" and you "shouldn't be upset for no reason sometimes"...

Don't make it long term, and don't seek out reasons or excuses to see her.

Re the first letter: I dont agree with Dan mostly. I can't believe he missed on a very important clue: her current husband stopped having sex with her. Her serial cheating apart--she is obviously unhappy in her marriage. I can't believe Dan didnt suggest personal therapy for both the serial cheating and the decision about marriage instead of calling her all sorts of names. the OP definitely needs it.

Also the woman is honest about her serial cheating and that her first love is no good for her-- which does speak well for her insight about herself and her situation. she will probbaly greatly benefit from some long term therapy about herself and by spending time alone coming to terms with her own problems.

Re the first letter: I dont agree with Dan mostly. I can't believe he missed on a very important clue: her current husband stopped having sex with her. Her serial cheating apart--she is obviously unhappy in her marriage. I can't believe Dan didnt suggest personal therapy for both the serial cheating and the decision about marriage instead of calling her all sorts of names. the OP definitely needs it.

Also the woman is honest about her serial cheating and that her first love is no good for her-- which does speak well for her insight about herself and her situation. she will probbaly greatly benefit from some long term therapy about herself and by spending time alone coming to terms with her own problems.

ps--im not a therapist so im not writing this for any promotional benefit. :P

Here's a memo to SCIL's husband: if someone cheats with you, they will cheat ON you. So I hope her husband wasn't SHOCKED, SHOCKED that she cheated on him. And if she is already noticing that Mr. True Love is blue-collar and doesn't have the nice home in the suburbs, you can imagine how thin and how quickly that lifestyle is going to wear if she actually leaves white-collar hubby and moves in with Mr. True Love.

The point with serial cheaters is the grass is always greener, and there is no relief when you move on, there's only something new/different. As soon as you move in, it's no longer new/different, and so the search begins again.

Wow, I feel for those poor kids though. Hard having Drama Mama in your home life.

Don't you wish you could secretly give birth control to people in their food or while they sleep?

@96
Someone needing therapy does not mean they are totally absolved from their bad behavior. It's obvious that she knows she is a destructive person, but it sounds like she enjoys it.

I've worked and had temporary friendships with versions of SCIL several times - narcissistic, self-loving and very destructive to the lives of all of the people around her. While she is engaging in her 'What should I do?' navel-gazing, the lives of her current husband, friends, children and co-workers (if she works at all, which seems doubtful) are thrown into chaos trying to compensate for all of the fucking instability she injects into environment around her. She may cut out at any time, but she isn't for now, but she might very soon. Having been on the co-worker/friend side of this type of crap, it gets old really quickly.

Frankly, her husband should have kicked her ass to to curb as soon as he discovered this. Her 'first' should never have entertained resuming this relationship. The red flags (two kids from two marriages, serial cheater) are huge. How could he, or anyone else, possibly benefit from having this person in their lives? Oh, but wait, "This man, my first love, is the worst person in the world for me." So of course he doesn't have the insight to see what a wreck this woman is, because he is a wreck himself.

SCIL is looking for 'true love' - but will never, ever have it. What a fucking mess. Don't every marry again...Please!!!

@ 99 - "Self-loving?" I think you meant "self-loathing." When a person loves themselves, they treat others with kindness, dignity and respect (real respect and not what you see "on the TV.") People who love themselves know the difference between the confused behaviour of this woman and the self-denial, self-loathing and probably self-hatred they feel AND the contrast of what it feels like to love one's self. There is a big difference and until one knows the difference, one doesn't understand the contrast in behaviour.
People who love themselves operate with more clarity in their minds and with more efficient minds. Hatefulness, jealousy, self-doubt, self-denial, anger, resentment and any other negative way of being is on the other end of the scale from love.
Narcissim is the opposite of self-love. Narcissistic people are "making up" for genuine feelings of worthiness in their existence.
Big difference.

Thanks for your response to SCIL, Dan. It was dead on, and it quelled the fury I felt reading her letter. Look, SCIL: stop fucking your children up. One day they will be adults and they will remember (believe me, I know). You'll end up alone: the men you date will finally catch on and look for love elsewhere, and your children won't even want to come home for Christmas.

Get your head on straight, woman.

No, Dan, it was not "cunty" of you to react with "THIS BITCH CAN GET LEGALLY MARRIED AND I CAN'T?!?!"....it was an obvious and rational response to this irresponsible, soulless slut's utterly self-serving, so called dilemma....and I wish that all the anti-equality assholes out there would catch a clue that it is "people" like this from whom marriage needs protection not you, not two of my dearest friends who cannot marry- I introduced them 14 years ago and they've been together since about a week later- faithful, steady, supportive of one another, everything spouses should be and yet without access to the legal and financial benefits or the social acceptance that comes with that piece of paper that this horrible woman is using as a trick towel.