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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
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"You can always say "You don't smell right" instead of "you smell bad." The first might denote intelligent concern, and the second might just be hurtful and unhelpful."
might not sound that different, but as a woman I might have an instinctual, super embarrassed, negative reaction to someone saying "god you stink" vs. "you don't smell right, you might consider seeing a doctor to see if everything's alright down there" or something.
@SLUT: oh lord, DTMFA. consider yourself lucky you got such an obvious red flag, and maybe see a therapist about this relationship, or at least think long and hard about why you would continue to see someone who threatened your safety for having sexy pics of yourself--taken for you, an old boyfriend, whatever.
And he didn't find them by snooping either. I didn't exactly hide them away... they were just in my regular pic folder. Snooping is another red flag of jealousy!
Dan's advice is solid.
Chances are she figured it out on her own, eventually, or even that she was just coming off her period and the smell was tied to that. Not that that means he should have gone down on her or anything like that (just as a woman shouldn't have to go down on a guy if he stinks, or she's not comfortable), just that he probably did the right thing. If she actually got off like he says she did, I doubt she was disappointed, anyway.
Fan from Australia
For those in VOICE's situation--if you have access to a shower/bath, you can always suggest something sexy involving the shower/bath. If she hasn't gone down on you yet, you can even tip her off by saying that you want to make sure that YOU are fresh for her. But I agree with @12, there's really not a good way to tell a one-night stand her crotch stinks. Long-term relationship, sure. But I don't think even @1's comment would work for one-night stands.
SLUT, I'd like to reiterate Dan's advice. Violations of privacy followed by namecalling and other threatening behavior is bad news even if he's sorry and it doesn't sound like he is. This shouldn't be about you winning his trust. You didn't do anything wrong. After an explosion like that, it should be about him winning yours, but instead he's still trying to control you by pushing you to erase pictures you took of yourself for yourself.
I enjoy taking them and looking at them later makes me feel sexy and desirable. It's not just moms who sometimes forget to hold on to their identity as sexual beings - it's easy to lose track of some days between long hours at work and everything else going on in life. The pics are a nice pick-me-up and a pleasant reminder!
And if my next boyfriend were to react like SLUT's, I promise you he wouldn't be my boyfriend for much longer.
Re: The second letter/stank? Honestly, how could she not know, herself?
Hope you gear up for a big 40th birthday party in a few years! And hey, extra fun, cause your son should be legal by then, you guys can all party together, woot!
I am rooting for DUMB! Yeah, "I want a relationship" might be a weird thing to say when you're just getting someone's number. In this situation, though, if DUMB isn't passing as a woman, it's not weird because the prospective boyfriend might want her to know that his interest is for real. I agree with Erica that she should make sure he knows the deal, before meeting up in private. What he says about it might reveal a lot more about whether he's a safe person to date.
Also totally agree with #8. I don't see the wisdom of going down on a perfect stranger without protection. Questionable smells that might mean an infection or STD would only magnify that issue.
As for his "weird" line, sounds to me like he's direct, knows what he wants and isn't afraid to share his feelings. And he got a little nervous asking you out. What is not to like? I'd take awkward and sweet over macho overconfidence any day.
Oh, I hope you write back.
I agree with Dan, SLUT should DTMFA as soon as possible with his scary attitude, and secondly, password-protect her computer and leave it PRIVATE. If someone else wants to "borrow" it, don't let them unless you know how to set up a separate account.
Also, setting up a Flickr account is a good idea - you can upload your pics to it and set them to be public, friends-only or completely PRIVATE.
@ the guy w\ the smelly vigina that's what you get LOL.. but should have at least left her a note..
I would have no problem telling someone I'd like to spend the next couple of hours eating their vagina and anus but that it's my preference to give the area a little sprucing up first, i.e. "it's not you, it's me." This has the added benefit of reducing the transfer of bacteria between the 2 areas.
She says she's not passable. She probably doesn't look like a cis-gendered woman and won't actually need to "disclose" the obvious fact that she's trans.
To DUMB, good luck and good luck again. I hope this guy's not a creep and that you both receive something positive from the relationship that we all wish you can create. I hope you can add some more self love, trust and confidence by experiencing something wonderful.(Was it a good sandwich?)
If you tell a complete stranger - even if you've just spent 2 HOURS with them that you "want a relationship" with them, then yes, you are "a creep."
Also, to the first letter writer: you already know the answer because the line, "I want a relationship with you" DOES tell you that your inner awareness does not agree with the statement. The guy doesn't know you from the man on the moon so how in the world does he know he wants to spend 20 minutes with you - or, you with him - let alone "have a relationship." Forget about the whole "trans-whatever" aspect of it, just look at it as two people who don't know each other. How many people who are self-aware at all would tell someone they don't know - or, only know briefly - that they "want a relationship" with them? Sure, throw the guy a bone IN A PUBLIC place but be careful of any words you may use that could get misconstrued by those who are mentally unstable (or clueless). Don't give him too much personal information and try to enjoy your time with the guy but stay as uncommitted as possible. Desperate people have a way of twisting the words of others, and "yes" anyone who proclaims their desire for a "relationship" with a stranger (or brief acquaintance) is "desperate" in SOME aspect of their lives.
To those want to argue or, excuse me, "debate" that point, then wait about 10 years, travel the world, have some experiences that take you out of your comfort zone and belief systems THEN come back and read my post and then decide if you want to "debate" it.
As for the woman with the photos of herself, she needs to dump the guy, obviously but the fact that she took him back in the first place tells us that she most likely enjoys the drama of it all and will only attract another person like the one she dumps. She needs to get rid of the photos for her own sake, go within and ask herself some life affirming questions.
Dan, no need to lie about your age. You're a sexy piece of shit. Men only get better with age. Look at Anderson Cooper.
Oh Dan, no need to lie about your age. You're a sexy piece of shit. Men only get better with age. Just look at Anderson Cooper.
The odds are >99% that it won't work out, because it's highly unlikely that the very first person who asks her out is "the one" or even "a one". However, if the date isn't a total disaster maybe it will help her get out there more and meet more people. And, there is that 0.01% probability that it could work out.
I've been on dates with literally dozens of different guys that didn't work out (most of them were out of the running after a date or two; two or three lasted a month or so before we realized it wasn't working). Imagine if I'd told each of these guys a deep, dark, potentially volatile secret of mine - there would be all these random jerks out there knowing my personal business. Some of them would perhaps be bitter over me bailing on them, and decide to use their inside information against me somehow. I'll just go ahead and keep my personal stuff personal until I know someone is trustworthy, thanks - and that should go double for people whose "secret" makes them a target of violence.
My feeling is that a pre-op trans person has no obligation to disclose their status to a potential partner, especially right in the beginning...but he or she should probably do so, anyway, if it seems like things are heading to a naked place. And just to be clear, this disclosure is for the trans person's benefit (to see if the other person is going to turn homophobic and violent) more than for the benefit of the other person.
Lots of ciswomen have bodies that are "nonstandard" to varying degrees and you don't see anyone insisting that they have a long, earnest discussion of their oversized clitoris or mismatched breasts with a guy at all, let alone on the first date!
And if a transwoman is post-op, I don't see any reason for her to disclose her trans-ness, period.
I'm sure I'll get some arguments over these opinions, though. :P
It's not a fetish I'd ever much about before, but jesus christ, I don't think I've ever heard of a more harmless kink. And where do you think the Greeks got that story about Narcissus....
As for the beau's potential creepitude - almost certainly DUMB will be able to tell if he's a weirdo by date #2 at the latest. I'm rooting for ya honey, but don't be too discouraged if he ain't right in the head. Unfortunately, you're going to have a slightly larger percentage of strange, conflicted people who are attracted to you. But there are some good ones in there too. Just stay positive.
Why on earth would anyone allow someone else to use their computer? UGH - like reading someone's private diary (ok for some, I suppose).
Ok, time for my personal grief du-jour. My GF has what I'd like to call bad manners but other people I complain to keep mentioning boundaries. I don't use her computer, I don't go through her cellphone and I don't love it when she shoves her brokerage and bank statements in my face. We have discussed marriage and at some point those things - the latter two - do become my business and important - but we're not there yet.
She, however, seems to prefer using my computer - even when her own is right there and available. She has - right in front of me - picked up my phone and gone through my call list and phonebook. I am not sure how often she's done it when I wasn't there to call her on it. She walks in on me going to the bathroom (and will also just walk in and use it in front of me) - and no, that's not part of our (very vanilla) play. There are other even more trivial gripes (using my toothpaste/shampoo/etc. and won't put the cap back on) - little little petty things that get under my skin.
In the most recent episode, she read my email and found a swath of emails with a friend some of which are quite personal. We're not screwing around, but I am also didn't tell the GF about this friend and I don't want to explain the rather personal conversations. I feel like my ability to read the riot act over the violation is undercut by my secrecy (inadvertent) over this friend. I also feel like my GF doesn't know any better (which is better or worse, I can't decide). Just when we were turning the corner, I'm right back to wondering if it's time to toss in the towel.
And finally:
Hey Dumb, please please write back with an update after your date! We all want to know that you had a great time.
+10. I would love to hear about someone finding their perfect match!
Joining the crowd asking DUMB to report back -- and good luck!
@46, yes, it's for her benefit, to see if he's violent, self-hating or delusional.
Canuck @47, but apparently VOICE's one-night stand didn't know, since she was urging him to go down on her. I think it would have been a kindness to mention the funkiness. Make it about her health, not about cleanliness. He already noted that she had good hygiene.
The proper response to finding naked pictures of your girlfriend taken from before she was your girlfriend is, "Hot. Ever think about going back to this haircolor/shaving pattern?"
And man, the girl with the stinky vag....I am with the others who say, "how can SHE not know?" I mean, there are times when I am not so April fresh (right after a workout, that time of the month), and I won't let a man *near* me! I have a nose like a dog, and I offend myself, lol! But someone also pointed out...there isNO good way of saying this, especially for a one night stand. I would be *devistated*. Many women, myself included, are so socialized with tuna jokes, etc, that it takes us so long to get comfortable with our bodies...wow. that should really be the job of a long term lover. Ouch!!! I have no probelmo telling hubby to hit the shower when he stinks, lol, but there is normally a good reason for it (like the gym, etc...). A funky vag is normally a sign of BV.
And yeah SLUT...run now!!
Yes, hair makes a big difference. There is also a huge variation even with the same individual depending on what they've been up to since their last shower. The same person can be anywhere from perfumed to pleasantly female to overpowering. Hygiene above and below the equator doesn't necessarily get the same attention. People can certainly have their issues about "down there."
@52 EricaP
Definitely go with the public place for safety.
Really? There's no way? What if the guy made it part of the action to tend to you first or even suggest showering together first? Is that too transparent?
Even if the taste is strong, I wouldn't shy away. Giving good orgasms is one of the best things a person can do for another!
You have a point there, and if and how a trans person chooses to disclose this is almost entirely for their own benefit. But is non-disclosure going to make them any safer, should the relationship progress to sex? There are people out there who might get violent if they feel their new crush has surreptitiously tried to infect them with gayness, and there are people who might resent feeling that they'd been....tricked. I'm not saying you're wrong, and the idea that a trans person should have to tell every single first date about this very, very personal issue is miserably unfair--especially since one of the primary issues is that he or she might be in serious physical danger if they choose the wrong course. But I think some people might be angrier for having been "led on" than if they'd found out up front. I don't think a trans person has an obligation either way, but godDAMN that must be difficult to navigate. Someone should write a book of etiquette--for both the trans person and their dates.
Of course, those were the silly examples at the trivial end of the spectrum. I'd have appreciated a substantive response on the snooping vs. secrecy, which is the real issue.
And 61, hahaha, I think its pretty cute *grin*. I always fess up about my true age. Mainly just because I look a-mazing, lol! But I am still under 40. I reserve the right to change my mind when I hit the big 4-0! when people start guessing fff--instead of tthhhhi--, well, I might start taking Dan's route and hit 29 and holding!
Snooping is a problem. It's an obvious sign of distrust/insecurity. Being secretive is a sign of being untrustworthy. You need not tell each other absolutely everything but you do need to have some self-awareness of the level of trust that you have with each other. Going through your phone like that is a huge red flag. Password protect it and then see how she reacts. Or just be direct with her about your concerns.
Frankly what you've said about your gf doesn't sound too much like snooping to me as she's doing it right in front of you -- she's not doing it behind your back secretively. I'd guess she is just one of those really open, nosy parker types --- my family is full of them -- where everyone knows everyone else's business. It's more like they're really curious than snooping.
My bf and I do most of the things you're complaining about, so they certainly aren't inherently offensive or lacking in common courtesy. We both have access to each other's emails, phones, etc. and are free to look at them. I don't think either of us have, but we simply don't care about it--we're very open books. However, as someone else pointed out, these boundaries although not "wrong" or lacking in common courtesy do seem to be incompatible as you prefer other privacy and personal space boundaries. You have to talk to her about these issues if you expect her to be able to respect your boundaries as you two don't share the same perspective on these issues. If she can't respect them once you've discussed them clearly with her, then that's a bigger problem.
Frankly, the thing I see the most disturbing is your secretiveness about this friend. Is the friend purely platonic? Have you been with him/her before sexually? Is it a woman? If it's all innocent, it shouldn't be a big deal, but it does sound like you're purposely hiding something to me and that is usually the start of a big deal (like an emotional affair?).
From the gist of your very short blurb, I get the impression that you want to break up with your gf (possibly start something with this hidden "friend") and are just looking for an excuse. If you don't want to be with your gf, for whatever reason, just acknowledge it, accept it and break things off.
My husband and I live a more open life with each other. (At least that is the goal. A few months did go by before he told me he had seen an escort, and, yes, I was upset at the betrayal of trust.)
What's the status of your snooping/secret-keeping? Did you blow up at her? Did you explain yourself? Did the whole thing just get swept under the rug?
I don't think one of you is more right than the other; I think it's just an area of incompatibility, and you shouldn't try to change her. I don't agree with riley @56, who says "it is high time that she learned" to keep her nose out of your business. If you scold her about this, she'll just get more secretive about her snooping. Find someone who trusts you, and let her find someone she trusts and who is happy to live a less guarded life.
"all those inexperienced boyfriends who react negatively to a vagina's natural, healthy odor because they didn't get the "spice" part of the "sugar and spice" memo."
Especially given the source -- a gay man who has announced that he'd actually kill himself before going down on a woman -- that was very well done.
Well, it's inadvertent. I didn't bother password protecting my email or deleting mails or going to any lengths to hide it. The friendship is platonic and I have no desire to get involved. She's married and I don't really want any part of that. This was a sin of omission on my part, and I feel a minor one. I don't feel obligated to report every contact with everyone.
We have, however, talked about relationship issues (she's met her husband's girlfriend - and theirs is not an open relationship), and I've discussed some of mine. I have not shared that with my girlfriend and I do not want to - this other woman is merely a sounding board. But, I feel defensive and I don't like that I feel that way.
It did not get swept under the rug - I pointed out that I thought the cell phone behavior was nosey/rude, right then and there. I have not checked up on that or password protected it since. I did not blow up about this email episode, but it's fresh. I pointed out that I didn't really like it. I am not going to defend or make excuses for having emails or meeting with this friend, but I have explained it.
Also, it is not her obligation to disclose anything, but also, Google "trans panic". If she has it on record that he already knew, he can't try to pull that out. It is her call, and I hope it turns out to be a non-issue, but you can't blame a lady for worrying about the very real possibility that she will be murdered.
Believe me, we know.
Some folks like it when the mossy cavern smells a little extra earthy.
Some won't go spelunking unless the territory is shower fresh.
Ladies, if you know you're going to be getting busy and your girlybits haven't had time to breathe all day, be kind and excuse yourself for a quick wet wipe in the bathroom. It'll set your mind at ease about any possible funk, and he or she won't be put in the position VOICE has been been wracked with guilt over all these years.
Me, one of those rear-view-mirror Christmas-tree pendants.
I think people, DS included, are missing the real point -- she *wants* boyfriends, or randoms, to find the pics. This is what makes them sexy to her in the first place.
She password-protects them, their allure vanishes in thin air.
Excellent point, 48.
I totally agree. But, if I were trans, I'd still go the "disclose it only to someone who's about to see me naked, and make sure the disclosure is in public" route. I personally feel that having one person (who might not even mind!) knowing this about me would be the lesser of two evils...especially since disclosing right up front could get me beaten up, anyway.
It is a horribly difficult situation and I'm grateful for my cis privilege.
And jeez, everyone, cut Cvilletop a break. Wanting to keep a conversation to yourself (even if it's with someone of the opposite sex - GASP! - isn't necessarily about secrecy, it's about privacy.
I'm the more private person in my relationship. My boyfriend hasn't rummaged through my phone or anything, but he'll blatantly look over my shoulder while I'm reading or writing emails...and, yes, if I'm discussing a friend's personal life, I'll shield the screen and ask him not to read. I think it would be pretty shitty of me to give him the go-ahead, actually: "Look, sweetie! Christine had anal sex with her boyfriend the other night and she'd always sworn she would never, ever do that but she kind of enjoyed it and now she's having a bit of an identity crisis! Wanna see?"
Me, I tell my friends (and my lovers) that I tell my husband everything, so they don't tell me secrets I can't share with him. That's another approach, but it's equally valid.
In cvilletop's case, they are figuring each other out. Sounds like it's going well: he told her how he felt, and explained the odd emails she found. That should reinforce her trust in him, and her knowledge that he wants some privacy. If she likes, trusts, and respects him enough to stick with his expressed boundaries, then they will do great together. If not, that will also probably become apparent soon.
I am now worrying that she will dig around in my computer history to find this thread...and since it's not something I want her to see/find that way (she is not a reader), then I feel like I've got to scrub my history. Or not post in the first place. Yes, I'm quite familiar with private browsing.
I took the pictures for myself only. Period.
No one else has seen them (except my now ex).
The only lie in my letter is that I took him back after breaking up with him. I thought I would get a more honest answer that way.
He is not a bad man. I am friends with the man now and have a much better understanding why he was so upset and why he felt he needed to look through my things in the first place. I also realized he just was not right for me nor me for him.
Thanks for your response Dan....and thanks to all of you too (I guess) for your opinions
jill
http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.co…
That said, NO vagina should smell like something that is "passed its expiration date". If it smells like a vagina in any of its beautiful forms, eat up! If it smells like something crawled up in there and is rotting away, I think it is safe to say that something is wrong.
Dan did a good job, it sounds like vaginosis. And yes, I think she would have noticed and probably shouldn't have asked for oral. However, women are taught to fear their vaginas and not to look, touch, smell, taste themselves, so it is understandable that a woman may not realize there is a problem. Maybe she didn't and in that case something should be said. Yeah, it may be awkward but she needs to see a doctor.
Yes, they always find out. Especially if you are an honest person. Hope for the best and plan for the worst. Don't post if you aren't prepared for her finding out.
@86 levsmom26
You aren't alone. Lot's of folks have masturbated in the mirror. Please be careful.
As for the smelly vagina issue... I am convinced this is more a matter of personal taste, no pun intended. I have a good friend who was dating a male friend of mine and he came to me with the "omg she smells how do I tell her? Yes even after a shower!" dilemma. Meanwhile, another male friend of mine who I know is equally picky about pussy was going down on her all the time with no questions asked or complaints at all. Some odors just don't hit it for everyone and it doesn't mean she has BV necessarily. BV is itchy and painful. You know when you have it. YOU can smell you don't smell right.
Oh and if you let her blow you first, you suck.
Now, I'm not saying it's a big bad thing -- that you're cheating or anything -- but that it speaks very loudly to me that at the very least you're not comfortable with the boundaries in your relationship. I also generally do think that when you're heavily emotionally investing in someone outside of your relationship, especially when they're opposite sex (or same sex if you're gay), you're playing with fire. It can be very easy to wander down the emotional affair path before realizing that you crossed a line a ways back.
Now, you're not married so it's a different bag when you're gf/bf, but I can also say that I think a lot of people would be uncomfortable with their gf/bf investing a lot in an opposite sex friend to such an extent that you don't feel comfortable at least discussing generalities of such discussions with your gf/bf -- when you feel that you can share things with such a friend that you don't feel comfortable sharing with a serious bf/gf. If you were casually dating or it was a newer relationship, fine, but if it's serious enough that you're considering marriage, this would be a problem for me (and I think a lot of people too). Frankly, for me, that would be a huge red flag and a sign that we probably aren't meant to be together.
Here's an interesting article on emotional affairs -- it does a better job of explaining this dynamic. http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/a…
Someone who has had their "safety threatened" would be more specific.
You can have your cake and eat it too. But if you're lying to do it, you have no sympathy from me.
Um, not for me! I'll go down on a guy at the drop of a hat, 'cause it's fun!
@97 I think she meant that she doesn't ask for it on a first date -- she seemed interested in finding out the guy's unprompted level of enthusiasm, so you and she would probably get along fine (hypothetically).
I used to fix other peoples computers and there will come a day when you have to take your computer in to be fixed. Somebody like me will tell you that the harddrive cannot be fixed (and that would be true) but that doesn't mean that I can't see and copy all of the pictures off of your harddrive before handing it back to you.
With a seperate harddrive you can keep your personal stuff at home or safely hidden away when that computer will be out of your sight.