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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
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Your advice to WASTED should be in calligraphy, framed, and hung on the walls of every single high school bathroom, male or female.
btw, anyone have an idea why the advice on varying the jerking off style? is it to make it more entertaining or make sure he doesn't get too married to one particular technique? i don't have a dick or anything, but I am curious for...well, i don't know why, i just am. get off my back.
jill
http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.co…
I am both angry enough to withhold details and calm enough not to respond as if this were a personal attack. Yet. Excommunication wouldn't surprise me, though.
Female?
Oh sure, when you're 15 and "older" means mid twenties, then it's all fine and dandy. Now that I'm in my early twenties I have a strict age cutoff. Women my age who go for older men baffle the shit out of me. But I guess they want different things out of their partners than I do.
The OTHER thing you can do is say to your nephew, hey, if this guy (or any other) is making YOU uncomfortable, tell me, and I'll deal with it. As in, you as his aunt and a trusted adult will listen to him when he says something doesn't feel right or is pushing his boundaries in a way he doesn't want, and you will talk to your sister and/or the person who is pushing them, and say, back off.
If the guy in question has any consideration for your nephew, he will respond to a politely worded back the heck off (do not ask him to sleep over, do not ask him to do XXX, stop doing YYY because it makes him uncomfortable). If, after being asked to stop, he continues what he's doing, that a big red warning flag.
Anybody remember a guy called Michael Jackson?
Dan nailed all three!!
Regarding varying the grip; good to know. I'll remember have to remember that for my future son - gay or straight.
A few months into the relationship, his b'day came around, and I asked, "Oh, how old are you going to be?" His reply, "18." EIGHTEEN!!
I was aghast! It was a college! I had known him for 1 1/2 years prior to the relationship! We discussed it and decided to continue together. At least he was no longer jail bait... (Whew!)
The first time his parents came to visit and meet me, they brought us a water-bed they were getting rid of. I was amazed and impressed and, most fortunately, they liked me too. They were rather progressive, to say the least.
Long story short, 3 1/2 years into the relationship, we were sabotaged by a third party and broke up. I didn't find out about the sabotage 'til a decade later. (That's the VERY abridged version.)
The breakup was in the summer of '83. To this day, we have the greatest of friendships, which includes his current partner, now husband, of 27 yrs., who is 3 yrs. older than me! (I)
It's not always creepy...
A thirty-one year old should be pursuing none younger than 22.5.
50 years old? No younger than 32.
Works like a charm.
Personally I don't get it at all as far as the physical attraction goes, but my friend is happy, and his boyfriend seems happy and is able to provide a much more secure living situation than my friend's dubious and hateful Catholic upbringing. So while I'm definitely suspicious of massive age gaps in relationships in general, it really does seem to work sometimes. My friend is not an idiot and is not being taken advantage of. I just try to refrain from being squicked by this funny dad-man being his boyfriend.
It may technically be legal, but as Dan says raises a warning flag of someone who finds partners over 17 or 18 to be too independent minded. @24's situation, a student living away from home getting serious with a fellow student, is very different from the sort of guy hanging out at the pizza place checking high school students' IDs for who just turned 18 and is now legal to nail.
There's a huge difference between relationships between two adults with a big age gap, and relationships between much older adults and the barely legal (for sexual consent). It's not the size of the gap, it's the extreme power imbalance. As Dan says, a man who's found that partners older than 17 or 18 challenge him too much raises red flags, however much he may talk about falling for the person and it just being coincidence that it only works out with people still taking algebra.
I would set a soft line of about 20, after which all partners should be out of high school. (Or that half age plus seven is a fine guide up until the younger partner is 18 and out of their parents' house.) 17 and 16 is very different from 37 and 16. 26 and 57, a 10 year bigger gap, meh. Go for it.
I also like what Dan says about your child in high school living under your roof being entitled to a certain level of interference regarding his or her allowable dating choices. Parents should try to be wise about not writing themselves into a Shakespearean tragedy, but let's make moving out and achieving independence look appealing.
Which is all to say that Dan's answer makes sense. Let's say that OCD meets that 31 year old man and, miracle of miracles, likes him. Let's say he passes the test. Let's say the guy is condom using, considerate, HIV negative, mature, has things in common with the 18 year old son, and doesn't seem like a creep or a user. OCD invites him to dinner just as he has the rest of his son's friends. If the relationship really is safe, the guy will be fine with hanging out at his young boyfriend's home. If it's not, then we're back to Dan's tear limb from limb scenario.
Oh, and can we make that first meeting over coffee, not beer? Dan so often suggests alcohol, and while I'm not completely against it, I think it's generally safer without.
Ok, I'm probably over-complicating things, but just wanted to offer an alternative scenario. The aunt might want to talk to the nephew about stuff like that...
In part because, while I accept that 16 year olds have sex, the consequences of sex are very adult. Emotionally, for what it does potentially to your and a partner's feelings. Physically, in terms of things that can affect the two of you, and a child, and all future partners of yourself or your current partner... It would be nice if we could rule those consequences don't come in until 18 or 21 and it's all fun exploration until then, but that's not how it works. I want my social norms to acknowledge reality, which would include both that people in high school have sex and that that sex can have consequences for them and for others.
I have to chuckle at the commenters wondering why women date older men. They do it because they are sexually attracted to older men, duh. And men date younger women because again, duh. This kind of relationship is hardly unusual. People assume, I suppose, that an age gap necessarily implies some sort of power play, and perhaps sometimes it does, but as I believe Dan has said in the past, youth and vitality have power just as much as age and wealth or experience.
Do may-december relationships last? I would guess that the odds are a little worse than it is for people in the same age cohort, but they don't have to be. It really depends on the individuals. I feel closer to my wonderful young bride-to-be than I ever dreamed possible compared to previous relationships with women closer to my age. If you can't seem to find the right partner, try opening your mind a little.
I can't believe her parents are so supportive of the relationship, and they are VERY supportive based on the constant Facebook posts. She's a college student just learning how to live away from family. Living in a dorm and supporting herself with a part-time job while casually dating seems a lot better suited to her maturity level then quickly moving in with a guy twice her age and supporting him, herself, and a cat because he can't support himself. It seems like way too much way too soon. And she's potentially becoming step-mom to his kids, assuming he has any sort of custody/visitation rights?!
I just can't see any way this can end well.
In my opinion the fixation on an inexperienced virgin, as opposed to an experienced lover, is kind of strange. The idea is to perform impure acts together, right? So of course I ended up being the training lover for a few girls, including my wife. Life works like that...
Peace.
* Nowadays I see kids like that as potential partners for my kids, when they (my kids) get older. It's weird to jump into grandparent mode before my kids leave the house.
I'm 33 years old. If I was dating an 18-year-old guy, and his father came to me to say the things that you told him he should tell me, here is what I would reply.
"Mr. X, I understand that you are obviously concerned about your son's wellbeing. That's perfectly understandable and commendable. I think, however, that if you respect your son's ability to make enlightened decisions about his own life, most of these questions are questions you should be asking your son, and not me. I think you should tell him about your concerns regarding our relationship - it's perfectly fair of you to do so, and voicing concerns when you have them is what makes you a good father. I think also that you should ask him what he's getting out of our relationship, and rather than object or argue, you should spend some time reflecting on his answer, and show empathy for his needs. Then you can resume this conversation with him, and maybe agree on a compromise that would reassure you while ensuring that your son's needs are met.
Regarding my health, my HIV-status is a private matter. It does concern your son, and we've had this conversation together. It does not concern you, or anyone who I'm not considering as a potential lover. Once again, I understand your concern, but we barely know each other, and you are not entitled to details of my private life by the virtue of being my boyfriend's father.
Finally, once again, I understand your concern as a father, and I'm willing to continue this conversation with you if you want to two of us to know each other better. Being a concerned father, however, as never given you the right to threathen me. I do not tolerate threats. So if you want, you can apologize for that; I'll let it slide, and we can both continue this conversation together and enjoy the nice beer. Or I can tell your son that you threatened me, and ask him if I should call the police. What would you prefer?"
Yes it could be ok, great even. But it could very much not ok too. Agree that OCD's kid's relationship warrants scrutiny and wish my parents had put a stop to it. Some people can con the parents too. Can't necessarily protect yr kid but you can educate them on healthy relationships and sexuality so that if things go south, they can't be made to think its something wrong with them as abusers would have them believe. May be uncomfortable having these conversations with yr kid but you will know you did everything you could.
I cant think of any circumstances where a fifty yo inviting a child for a sleepover is not straight up pedophilia.
If you live in the US then I must say FAKE! No one writes for advice given such circumstances. People call the authorities or at least confront the predator and tell him off based on a lot less than this.
So I agree that OCD should be concerned, the boyfriend certainly could be a creep, but if he trusts his son's judgment, there's a good possibility this older man is just one amazing motherfucker!
You call the police, because there's no well in he'll I'd want my son with a manipulative POS like you.
While I can appreciate young beauty objectively, the minimum age of whom I find sexually attractive has also increased with my own years.
@42: If you meant that to come across as something that would convince a parent they had no business getting involved in the romantic life between you and their child, you missed by a mile. You might have that conversation with the parents of a 21 year old. 18, still in high school, lives at home? No, you do not get to blow off his (or her) parents' concern.
A thoughtful, mature, non-sicko 31-year-old dating an 18-year-old will know perfectly well there are sicko predators out there, and that it's difficult for the 18-y-o's parents to know if he is one. So if he reacts with outrage at the accusation, he's not a thoughtful, mature, non-sicko.
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
"The only rule that our agency has is that there are no overnights for the first six months of a match."
http://www.bbbssco.org/QA.html
"If you and your Little have been in the program 6 months, you are now able to have an overnight visit."
http://www.bbbs.org/site/c.mlIUIfN4JyE/b…
For the younger person, it can have many benefits -- very flattering (you think you're soooo mature), sexual mentorship, enjoy things materially that you couldn't (being wined and dined with nice dinners, tickets to concerts/theater, etc. -- things that are no big deal for the older person but seem extravagant to the younger person -- I wouldn't blink at paying $150 for dinner these days at 33, but back at 21, that would have been HUGE).
More often than not the younger ones outgrow the older ones and see it as a good learning experience (if there wasn't anything super predatory about it -- but more just a loser that despite his age, really never grew up and you want someone that's more on your level -- and let's face it, if he's on your level when you're 20 and he's 48, you're going to likely outgrow him soon).
---Former 21 year-old who dated a 39 year-old and felt the same way at 21 but not at all the same way at 25 or 33.
on the other hand, i have a friend who at 22 had been through a few girlfriends, with dramas > joys, and then hooked up with a 42 year old lawyer and had a solid functional relationship for a few years. the 22 year old was writing her phd, and needed someone who could keep up. their relationship was more equal than one with someone her own age.
also... where i live the age of consent is 16... in some countries it's 14...
We currently have an open and poly relationship and he doesn't just date women my age and gets along well with the partners he has his own age. we're both kinky and I have a bit of a masochistic side and out of being GGG he is enjoying learning that he has a bit of a sadistic side - we don't have a 24/7 dynamic, neither of us is interested in that and he treats me and thinks of me as his life partner and I treat him the same. I know that some men who date younger women are creeps, and he also acknowledges that there are creepy assholes out there who do that to manipulate their younger partners. I hate to say it but there are cases like that in the kinky community. But I don't think its fair to paint all of the age difference relationships with the same brush unless you have more detail about the older dude's lifestyle and general habits.
There are 20 year olds that are more mature than some 48 year olds will ever be. There are some 80 year olds that are younger at heart than some 20 year olds. Everyone is different, as are their families of origin, etc..
Most guys have probably run into the family compatibility problem, and a lot of women as well. As sucky as that can get, indifference would be worse.
Good luck with your relationship.
Peace.
No way in hell =/= "no well in he'll".
Damn you autocorrect.
Peace.
http://xkcd.com/314/
Um, needlessly obtuse. Obviously we're confused as to WHY they're sexually attracted to older men.
@39 Men who are mature date women their own age. (I said date, not fuck) *see the several testimonies above.
Why I wouldn't date older men? Biology.
1. If they're not already losing their looks/fitness, they'll lose them sooner than they would if they were my age.
2. Two words: refractory period.
But I'm a shallow motherfucker.
To women who date older men? God bless every one of you. Makes my life easier.
3. Mortality exists. Women already live longer than men so an older partner means added years of elderly lonliness. Pass.
I am committed to making sure my daughter is informed and given every bit of insight that it has taken me 42 years to acquire. Thank you for your support and guidance in how to present information rather than letting myself be surprised and panicky and defensive or suspicious or over reacting when these issues arise, because they all eventually do surface...I feel much more confident in my ability to relay a competent, satisfying answer, thanks to you. I can't express the depth of my appreciation for your critical thinking, compassionate, empathetic, common sense, realistic approach.
You are better than the best! I love your face off!
Hell, I'll tell him myself. This conversation just became a conference call, asshole.
Thanks for overplaying your hand, though.
68: I didn't misunderstand her at all. Her (first) point was apt, her details were wrong.
71: History suggests you will, but in the interim I'm not going to get upset about your nonsensical rantings.
Also, in what world does dating not equal fucking? Not the grown up world.
I was referring to the opposite, actually. I was anticipating a comment that when it comes to casual sex (not dating) a desire to have sex with younger women does not suggest immaturity. And I would tend to agree.
I didn't say women my age are "off limits" I didn't mean an older man can't go for younger women (I wish they'd leave me the fuck alone, but what can you do), or that younger women can't go for older men (if it gets them to leave me alone I'm all for it! As I suggested above). I just meant that the whole premise that a woman who dates an older man is getting a more mature man than someone her own age is usually wrong.
@77
Hunter was worried that I wouldn't see his attempt at a scathing reply if he posted it in last week's comment's section where it belongs.
I actually only have mild tone disagreements with Mr Savage until he gets to advocating threatening physical violence against someone whom the law will not protect. But at least he's proven that he's completely on a level with heterosexual parents, which appears to have been his great ambition, and I congratulate him for attaining what he has sought.
It is interesting that everybody assumes OCD has been a great parent all along when there is not one word from him about whether he accepts and/or supports his son's sexuality in particular. One can make the point that OCD compliments Mr Savage, but that is only the mildest of general indicators, especially if OCD knew before he wrote in that Mr Savage disliked April-June relationships. I think there's a distinct hint in the way OCD claims it's not a gay objection that he's had more than one gay objection, and likely fairly recently. It's possible perhaps that part of the general problem is that youngsters with parental issues try to date older and the older partner might not see that in time.
Not that that should invalidate his concern, and the beginning of Mr Savage's response is just as strong, but OCD may find his row harder to hoe, in which case I feel sorry for his son. OCD could quite plausibly be the only one to view the BF in a way that happens to be correct, but may have undercut his own credibility.
And yes, the BF ought to expect and welcome concerned inquiry. It does seem typical, though, that straight people would just expect gay people, when threatened with violence, to turn the other cheek. That's obviously worked so well for us in the past. It reminds me of Miss O'Hare in Widow's Peak complaining about how the English had been mistreating the Irish for centuries. I'd advise the BF to take it all with courtesy, and to be ready, if confronted with anything nasty, to voice his own concerns in a polite, non-accusatory manner.
And could we have a hands up from all the cheerleaders for physical violence who would be just as enthusiastically in favour of that bit of advice if the other party were a 31-year-old woman dating a LW's 18-year-old straight son? If anything, that could be the most dangerous combination of the four, at least concerning the younger party's agency if something undesirable happens (in this case, pregnancy).
I'm always inclined to push back against the notion that an 18 year old be free of any legal right of their parents to tell them what to do and how to live so long as they're willing to move out, should logically be allowed to drink (the alcohol laws are based on younger teens not knowing many 21 year olds), can sign binding legal contracts for apartments and loans and such, can join the military, can have any kind of sex they want with other consenting adults, and can start a career as a porn star/weapons importer. But is not considered really an adult for matters of relationships. It's a weird special exemption.
That'll do.
I agree!
Seems like we've been in some long drawn out process of pushing back 'adulthood' further and further. I know some people that think they don't need to act like adults until they're in their 30s.
i actually think our marriage/civil union laws are pretty smart here: you can wed at 16, but need one parent/guardian to sign off on it until you're 20. if you can't agree about it, you can take it to court - if you're under 18, you have to prove that you're responsible, mature, and self-sufficient. if you're over 18 your parents have to prove that you're _not_ mature enough. if you're under 16 and can't wait for some reason, you can apply to the courts for dispensation... all designed to make you really think about it, not necessarily to stop you.
Also, you did draw a distinct line between dating and fucking. I'm not sure how one is supposed to see that you meant the opposite, but whatever.
I would do whatever it takes to protect my child from a predatory adult 12+ years their senior. Surely you can't believe it takes a Y chromosome for someone to be capable of abusing another.
@83 mydriasis,
30s! I know of people that will never be an adult. Worst case, I know someone that has half sibs by his high school girlfriend! The guy's dad is just a large child, with the same degree of empathy. (yes, the father was cheating on both his wife and son at the same time. I'm not going to put much blame on the 18 YO.)
Peace.
"I said dating, not fucking" is what I said originally?
You thought I meant that dating does not include fucking. (Right?)
What I really meant was that fucking often does not include dating. But that dating typically does include fucking.
I guess 'opposite' isn't the right word, but it seems pretty close?
Anyway, neither of us was arguing a universal truth.
Frankly, I think a 25 year old man of average maturity who wants to date someone my age is likely to be more mature than a 40 year old man who wants to date someone my age. But that's just my opinion/experience/impression.
Not sure where the patient part comes in?
Really? Personally I'd find such a woman even more dubious. Am I alone in this?
@Stiny
Sorry to hear. I just know in my own experience (and I had all types of friends), even girls who fit that description usually had an equally awkward friend who wanted in her pants. Personally I got more attention from my teachers than classmates. Highschool wasn't fun for me either.
In most circumstances, "Treat him [her] right or you will regret it" should be laughed off as a facetious expression of parental concern. After all, presumably the person has every intention of treating their little darling as good as gold, which renders the "threat" entirely meaningless. This has been the case for daddies inquiring after heterosexual relationships for centuries.
This is what makes @42's response all the more obnoxious. The father is looking for some reassurance that this person is not in fact a predator. 42's response is basically, "Reassurance? No, actually...you get nothing. Nothing from me, certainly, though I dare you to take your concerns to your child and see how well my brainwashing has taken hold."
42 could scarcely have labeled himself Predatory Creep any more effectively if he had carved it on his own forehead with a box cutter.
And if you're talking yourself into how your relationship with someone who is either still attending high school and barely 18, or barely out of the nest and just finding himself, is really okay and technically legal, maybe you need to step back. If there are all these inexperienced, 18-equivalent thirty somethings out there, maybe you could date them. Or at least the guys in their early twenties. 31-21 wouldn't raise either of my eyebrows a hair.
Given that I said I'd view older F-younger M as potentially the most dangerous combination in my mind, your second sentence seems odd. It just struck me that quite a lot of those cheerleading for straight men threatening gay men with physical violence (with, of course, the almost certain full approval of all authorities) might be inclined rather differently were the older partner a woman. I am prepared to pay Mr Savage the compliment of believing that he would feel equally inclined to advise the same course with an older woman, but suspect that he might not quite be able to bring himself to say it due to an expected backlash.
You must forgive me for thinking "or you'll regret it" not to be on a par with a threat of physical violence. I happen to take threats of S-on-G violence quite seriously; so few others do. At the very least, I should hold it incumbent upon a Concerned Parent making such a threat to make it clear that the younger partner telling a family member that the couple had a quarrel won't mean that the CP will be right over with a baseball bat. (Even as a child I disliked baseball; how prescient of me.) While an OP might reasonably expect initial suspicion, excessive hostility right away might just mean that the OP will shun contact, which could be a loss all around.
Um... why?
I find it the most suspicious, but not the most dangerous.
In my experience, including as a 21 YO having a glorious sexual experience with a 32 YO woman, and as a 17 YO almost being raped by a 45ish male, the response would be determined by the individual. Mydriasis's #91b entry made me wince because of my own anti-predator instincts honed by living as a younger (than 17) child being stalked by an authority figure in my own home. Unfortunately I understand the damage a predatory adult can inflict first hand, and at the same time that a loving and caring partner with the same age difference to be a blessing. Like most human behavior, mine isn't that simple.
In my own case, my knee-jerk response is likely based in the kind of defense that I wished for from my parents. It includes an extreme response only as a worst case scenario; I would go to jail to protect my child if and only if that was required. I would also welcome a new partner into the family if that were truly what was best for my child in my determination.
Sorry if you equate my response as thuggish, and even supportive of gay bashing, but it comes down to protecting my child.
Peace.
Otherwise I'm in the same boat plus 4 years, I think I'm mostly single because I 'd rather stay at home and am easily turned off by guys for seeming like assholes or vapid queens. College can also be a great social experience- I've heard- but only if you are proactive about it.
So live your life and don't wait for a boyfriend but rather build yourself into someone who's caring and smart. One of my past gay friends has a boyfriend (one of many past others) but lives back in his small hometown, jobless,and a college drop out. Don't be him. But don't be like me and just be a homebody with too many hobbies who doesn't like to socialize and wonders when the boyfriend is gonna show up. I also recommend your local GSA or in college bglad which is not the best place to start a manhunt but a start nonetheless.
At 47 I have entered a rather bizarre situation: men in my age bracket seem to be seeking women in their late 20s and 30s. Men 15 to 20+ years older seem to seek me out! I'm just not interested.
Maybe it's because I enjoy being independent so much more, I don't know. But I'd prefer to stay single than face those dating odds.
Three for three! Kudos, Dan, of a direct bullseye!
AWA: I'm with Dan: Speak up!!
That is how I have always experienced things, anyways. Maybe I am wrong, but I think that most of the time the relative age of the parties to a relationship is somewhere between "one of several factors influencing compatibility" and "irrelevant". When I was eighteen and twenty, most of my close friends were ten to twenty years older. I wasn't dating (or having sex with) any of them, but I loved spending time with them because we had a lot in common and many shared interests, and a lot of fun. I don't think there was anything wrong with any of us. One of the saddest things about America is the way people get segregated into age cohorts and can't get out.
There are 2 issues with relationships between the chronologically disparate, one easily defensible, one not. The first is that it strikes most of us as icky. Since most of us are attracted to partners who are roughly the same age we are, there's an automatic ick factor when we learn of someone much older being a little too attracted to someone much younger. Like so many ick factors that are based only on what one personally finds appealing without acknowledging that not everyone feels the same, this one really can't be defended. It smacks of the old "I think same sex sex is disgusting and not something I would participate in; therefore gay people must be hunted down and killed" mentality. Definitely not good.
But then there's the power element. A 30 year old in a relationship with a 60 year old has a good shot at being an equal partner and not being taken advantage of. That's not likely the case with an 18 year old in a relationship with a 30 year old. I don't have a problem with discouraging that latter age-disparate relationship because it takes the form of protecting the younger, less powerful participant.
As for threats-- When I read Dan's response, I didn't take it as a literal threat. I saw it more in the way people say "if he comes late one more time, I'll wring his neck," just a way of saying "I'll be very angry," not something to be taken as a literal death threat. But even if you take Dan's response a little more literally, even if you think he's saying that he will beat the guy to a bloody pulp, note that the threat is still contingent on "if you hurt my gay kid." If this man doesn't hurt the 18 year old young man, he's safe. He's in control. All he has to do is act honorably, and he's fine. The father isn't asking much, and he isn't taking autonomy away from his son. The son still gets to choose his own relationships, but from a position of safety.
I didn't take your response as necessarily thuggish; you just didn't clarify. One could have argued equally well either way from your open-ended original statement.
Thank you for being more exact. And I note with interest that you are still the only one making your stand gender-neutral. I give you a good many points for that.