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However, if you're about to dump someone you've been seeing for a few months and you're asking yourself if a text is ok- no, it's not ok unless the person you're dumping was a complete asshole. If the person you're dumping was not that bad to you while you were dating, then I think they deserve at least a phone call.
But I think even Dan would agree that there eventually comes a point where a text is no longer an appropriate way to dump someone. Maybe not at 2 months, but I think we can all agree that "honey, I know we're been married for 25 years, but I want a divorce" is not cool.
Was it:
1. I know it's awful to dump you like this, but I'm feeling so awful with the loss of my family member and some personal issues that I'm in no place to give this relationship the attention it deserves. Please forgive me.
or:
2. Get lost.
It makes a difference to how classy she is. That said, Dan is right. Getting dumped sucks no matter how it's delivered.
Spot on advice, Dan, to BBC--RUN, GIRL, RUN!!!--- and also to WSID about clearing the FWB proposal with his amazing girlfriend first.
Thanks for this week's Dump and Hump!
That said, Dan is still right, that worrying about the details of how a dumping was carried out is an exercise in futility. Don't waste one more second of your life trying to figure out whether you should respect or disrespect that person for how they did it. The more you feel like you were yourself disrespected by them, the more your reaction should be "...girlfriend? what girlfriend?" If you were burned by a stove, would you leave your hand on it while you tried to figure out how hot it really was? "Just go away" may be harsh, but it's the best course of action for the dumpee to take. As the saying goes, "shake the dust of that place off your feet," pick yourself up, and move on.
Except for the part where he says it doesn't reflect on her. I think it does
If someone dumped my through text I'd cut them. But I'd also feel better knowing that I'm not missing out on anything.
I think part of the reason for the desire to have an in-person break-up is so that the dumper has to behold the dumpee's pain and feel remorse (or so hopes dumpee) before they go skipping off into the arm's of their new lover.
jill
http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.co…
I agree with Dan that she was considerate to let him know right away, instead of stringing him along.
Just speculating here, but having just known each other a couple of months and already spending "a few nights a week together", maybe she felt it was all happening too fast, and maybe smothered. Perhaps she found it easier to break things off once she got distance and perspective. Or maybe she reconnected with an old flame at home.
Getting dumped sucks. I liked the artwork for this week's column.
I'm a straight 28 year old woman. Two months ago I started dating a great guy. We hadn't formalized our relationship, but we have been spending a few nights a week together and agreed we share a special chemistry together. The trouble is that I've recently lost a family member, and I have some personal issues. He's terrific, but I can't see this relationship going anywhere right now. Would it be alright if I broke up with him via text message?
A lot of people disagree with me. But I don't think I can be the only one who feels this way, so maybe people who break up over text should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Though @2 has a point, that you can't initiate a divorce via text. But I think the difference there is that in that case, you can't just be done with it in a single text. The mercy of the break-up text lies in the fact that the receiver of such a text never has to communicate with the person who just broke up with them again. I think at the point where more contact has to happen in order to finish breaking up is the point where a text is no longer acceptable.
That said, I think the dumping text/e-mail should include an offer to communicate some more if the dumpee wants to discuss things, because it's only fair to let the dumpee have their say. But the relationship-ending has to be firm, because nothing is more pathetic than when someone tries to talk you out of dumping them.
Somewhat ironically, attitudes like this--that the dumpee is somehow entitled to something other than candor about the state of the relationship from the dumper--are probably highly correlated with being broken up by text, email, or other non-interactive medium. If you give off vibes like you think people's boundaries and decisions are always open to negotiation, your SO is less likely to give you the opportunity to turn a breakup into an argument.
Somewhat ironically, holding attitudes like @3 and @6--that the dumpee is entitled to something more than candor about the state of the relationship from the dumper--are probably highly correlated with being broken up by text, email, or other non-interactive medium. If you give off vibes like you think people's boundaries and decisions are always open to negotiation, your SO is less likely to give you the opportunity to turn a breakup into an argument.
(apologies if this becomes a duplicate comment)
Clearly he loves some other things (like blowjobs) in addition to liking vagina.
The question is, is he particular about the gender bits on the body of the mouth delivering the blow job?
No matter how short the situation (or casual), you gotta do it via phone or in person. Otherwise like other commenters said, you're just being chickenshit and sparing yourself the other person's face.
Not grownup, not cool. Period.
No matter how short the situation (or casual), you gotta do it face to face or, if out of town, on the phone. Otherwise like other commenters said, you're just being chickenshit and sparing yourself the other person's face or voice.
Not grownup, not cool. Period.
A text adds to the shittiness of dumping exactly BECAUSE sex and dating and breakups ARE so personal. You get to find out all at once that you're losing the sex and dating and that the person you were into doesn't even respect you enough to pick up the phone or meet you for coffee. WTF?
Your argument that SMS would have felt just as bad over a different move is a total straw man, btw, unless SMS said that. You don't usually use straw man arguments. Weak, Savage, pretty weak. Sometimes I think you get off on sounding like an asshole at people who write you with honestly sad voices instead of edgy ones.
@21 Um, no, it's not about giving the other person the opportunity to argue back (which is pathetic, as another commenter said). It's about acknowledging that they're a person with feelings, and that you still have respect for them as such even if you no longer want to date/fuck them.
I can also see not wanting to be dumped in person, as someone else suggested. However, having been dumped a few times, my experience is that I ultimately have more respect for people who bothered to tell me in person, even if it was humiliating at the time.
Agreed. Her situation seems to be somewhat specific (not a LTR, special life events, etc).
We've been dating 2 months, you dump me via text? You are never, ever going to hear from me again. I'll send a :-( emoticon so you know I got the message and am as bummed about it as I am when Chipotle gets my order wrong.
And then you will spend hours and hours wondering if maybe I was never all that into you, that maybe I was relieved that *I* didn't need to be the one to end it.
Maybe it's shallow, but not going thru the humiliation of begging the dumper to change their mind is one of the few dignities left to the dumpee.
@21: Being allowed to process together what is happening is not the same thing as expecting to be able to talk the dumper out of it. Besides, unless your text message includes "Please don't contact me again" you can expect that you will be doing some additional communication about it anyway, so springing it on the person via text instead of in person is just rude.
Yes, there can be extenuating circumstances, like being physically separated, that make face-to-face impractical. Still, an email (or an actual handwritten letter), in which it is much more possible to express nuance and some attempt at acknowledging this person, whom you supposedly cared about reasonably deeply, is much preferable to a text. All the wordsmithing in the world is not going to strip that 140 characters of their stink of 'kthnxbai'.
As far as being cold, I agree with Dan. There's no kind, loving way to tell someone you're dumping them. Especially when it's only been a few months. for crying out loud, 2 months is barely a fling! If you've been together for a year or more, I'd say a little discussion of what went wrong might be warranted, if the breakup is under somewhat amicable terms (just not working as opposed to walked in and found him fucking your uncle, lol). But thinking you're owed some kind of special consideration just because you exist is only ego. No matter how it's done, getting dumped would bruise that ego just the same.
Also, it isn't as though texting is a one-way street. If you feel some burning desire to "be heard" about your feelings, then respond. Just don't think you have a right to "make" them change their mind. that's ridiculous.
The medium of dumping and the communication during the dump are only known to be appropriate when one knows the context.
What makes it cowardly and lame is the avoidance of facing the person you are potentially hurting. If you're gonna hurt someone - someone you've actively encouraged previously - you at least owe them the courtesy of letting them respond to you. Obviously there are exceptions (fleeing the abusive psycho while they aren't home) but for "normal" people, it's just good manners to treat them with respect and dignity: you as the dumper have enough respect for them to tell them, not avoid them.
And speaking of technology...even if she's three states away and busy with a family emergency...she could use that same cell phone to make a brief call.
I've been dumped, and it sucks...and yes, there's no doubt that finding something unattractive about the dumper helps soothe the dumpee's ego-wound. And we all do it, to some degree. I've been the dumper too and had to make myself make that phone call, even when I couldn't do it face to face (having chickened out) - often building up motivation by remembering how much it sucked to be the dumpee (and knowing that as the dumper it was probably a quicker move on for me).
So, um yeah, I know Dan gets lots of dumpee letters and he's right, complaints about method are really often just proxy for complaints about the deed itself, but he's wrong to whitewash the dumping by text.
You know, this is exactly what I was getting at: if you're gonna hurt someone, you should have the backbone to look them in the eye - tears and all - and say "yep, I'm doing this, and it's over". It shows you are at least being honest about hurting them.
And you may be shocked - the last person I dumped wasn't happy about it, but man, she had class and grace and was very gracious to me about it.
If it included fucking - even if it's a one night stand kind of brief - then it merits an interaction. If you're willing to have been physically intimate, then you can at least be intimate enough to have an interaction - a real (you know, two-way) interaction.
This is true even if you would prefer to avoid the pathetic display of someone trying to convince you otherwise. If you don't want to have to face that (where you just, you know, witness it and stand your ground), then I'd say you shouldn't have fucked them in the first place and it's your own fault, not theirs.
Haha! You're such a cunt!
Or did he try to distract her so they could go back to their few times/week special chemistry? In other words, was he thinking about what she could do for him at the very moment when she needed him to think about her?
It matters. If it's the latter, she dumped him with cause. She realized they didn't have a future with the sort of relationship she wants. Knowing she had to devote herself to her family, the funeral arrangements, and her personal issues, she sent something quick so she wouldn't be leading him on. Maybe a phone call would have been classier, but I'd cut her some slack.
If it's the former, SM,S needs advice on how not to be an asshole. He draws a deep breath and decides that she can be forgiven for the textdump considering everything else she was going through. He waits a good amount of time, maybe several months to a year. Then he sends her a short message saying that he still thinks about her, hopes everything is okay with her family, expresses his sympathy again for the loss of her family member (parent? grandparent? sibling?), and wishes her well. That's it. If there's no answer, he does not contact her again.
At the very least, I'd call anyone capable of a break-up in 140 characters or less a considerable pfutz. A dump might be something different.
Of course, this also takes into account people who turn what ought to be break-ups into dumps. Those who don't distinguish between dumps and break-ups obviously don't have to, but just know that I frame this with such a distinction in mind.
1-2 dates - short text is fine: "Thank you for the great dates but this isn't going to work for me"
Have cuddled, shared some stories - longer text/email: "You're a really nice person and I enjoyed getting to know you but.....yadda, yadda"
Multiple months, some talk of future, would have worked out if your heart cooperated with your head: A phone call at least.
"Officially together": Face to face unless there are some extenuating circumstances (e.g. the person turned out to be crazy or can't take no for an answer).
I don't get the line of thinking that the dumper needs to take the dumpee's pain with them as a punishment for things not working out. The only responsibility the dumper has is to be very clear that it's over (no stringing along bullshit like "we can be friends, or maybe someday") and respectful (no need to go into details or assign blame, should cut off the conversation/hang up/leave if the dumpee wants to go there).
Add me to the chorus of people who not only agree with Dan but would MUUUUCH rather be dumped via text. I think those of you who are insisting that it's rude are off-base. I don't think any of us are "owed" anything by whoever is dumping us - the dumper isn't obligated to give us a chance to plead our case, we don't need to interrogate them about what went wrong. If you can't examine yourself and learn some lessons from the experience without having "answers" from the dumper, then you probably should start developing that skill before you try to date anyone else.
@46, now THAT was rude. I don't think she deserved that. It may have been *somewhat* harshly worded, but it was nowhere close to "cunt" level vitriol. It was bitchy, to be sure, but imho not very cunt-like.
That being said, to a certain extent, @42, I agree.
If your dating communication was conducted by text in a short-term relationship, scheduling dates, booty calls, thinking-of-yous, that's probably how the break-up will happen. In particular, if you weren't in the habit of talking by phone, I doubt the dumper would change the dynamic for the dump.
So it probably comes down to the dumper's knowledge of the dumpee for which medium would be least painful. If you think that the dumpee would rather be left alone after the breakup, breaking up via non-interactive channels is the least cruel. If I got dumped by text, at a time when she knew I'd be alone, I would not be upset about the fact that it was by text. If I got dumped in person, in public, I'd definitely say, "Seriously? Right here? Right now? While we're waiting for our General Tso's Chicken?"
And on that note, who was General Tso, anyway? He sure has great taste in chicken!
In this case I would give the girl some slack. She is away and dealing with a family loss. She can string the guy along until she gets back, or she can send him a text. Considering the circumstances, the time they have been together, and that seeing him face to face would not be possible in the immediate future I think what she did was fine.
That said, I don't think that dumping people by text is generally a decent thing to do. Yes, no matter how the dumping is delivered it hurts. But how it is delivered does tell you something about the person and what they think of you.
If doing it face to face isn't unreasonably inconvenient, and if the relationship has moved past the casual getting together every once in a while stage, then dumping through text is a way for the person doing the dumping to ignore or avoid the fact that they are causing the other person pain.
Personally I think that if you are going to cause another person pain, even if you don't want to and have no real alternative, you owe them at least enough to show that you recognize that fact but looking them in the eye when you do it. To not do that is a sign that you don't think their pain is worth your time to recognize and address, and isn't just lacking class, it is pretty scummy.
Clearly some people would rather have the chance to show their broken hearts to the dumper with tears yelling and attitude, but personally I’d rather not feed their ego with such a display. Its humiliating, you’re not sticking it to them or whatever.
Jesus Christ, does having just been in a relationship count for nothing? Do you not give special consideration to people -- say, treat them a little more special than the average stranger on the street -- when you ARE in relationship to them? But once you're done with them, they deserve zero further consideration? What a sociopath.
@42: "All you’re being deprived of is the chance to manipulate someone with your tears. "
Right, because there is no chance that those tears could be a genuine expression of how you are feeling based on the rather wrenching thing that just happened. Their only purpose is to manipulate people. Another cynic. (and +1 to what Afinch said in response.)
@52: I agree, not responding at all is the best possible response to a dump-by-text.
That's not incompatible with thinking that dump-by-text is lame, and you shouldn't do it. It's just that the dumper has demonstrated a level of callousness (#38 and #42 illustrating nicely) that it should tell you you're better off rid of them, the sooner and more completely the better.
@46: Cunts are much nicer than that. Warm and soft and inviting and wonderful. That was more like a cunt lined with sandpaper.
Sure, the rejecting person doesn't "owe" a respectful rejection but there's a real difference between "owing" something and being a decent person. If someone does something nice, I don't "owe" them a thanks, but it's a nice thing to do, especially if I respect them as a person. If I'm ending a relationship (or telling someone that one won't begin) I think it's nice to do it in whatever way I think is most respectful of them.
and...
Personally I think that if you are going to cause another person pain, even if you don't want to and have no real alternative, you owe them at least enough to show that you recognize that fact but looking them in the eye when you do it. To not do that is a sign that you don't think their pain is worth your time to recognize and address, and isn't just lacking class, it is pretty scummy.
THAT It's not that you have to 'carry their pain' or whatever, but you do have to at least have the courtesy to acknowledge their feelings.
I'm sorry, all the rest strikes me as a bunch of excuses for avoiding tough interaction. What, are you so uncertain of your own ability to state what you want in the face of conflict that you can only do it by pressing a remote button? Are you afraid you'll have to cave in and agree not to break up because it's just too painful to see them cry a little? Grow a backbone!
No, you don't 'owe' anybody anything, in any 'legal' sense, but you most certainly have to treat them with some respect - do unto others and all that - if you want to be thought of as a decent person and not the c-word.
Viewed from the receiving end, those in-person dumping conversations are completely leotarded.
The message is simple: he don't want you. But no one, it seems, is able to deliver this simple message without forty-five minutes of delays, pointless apologies, empty offers of sympathy, and pleas for forgiveness.
Here is what I am thinking as I sit there across the cafe table offering thin little smiles and "uh-huhs" through the course of your interminable break-up monologue:
I'VE JUST BEEN DUMPED. YOU HAVE HURT ME. I DON'T HAVE THE ENERGY TO LISTEN TO YOU TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT, IN DOING SO, YOU HAVE ALSO HURT YOURSELF. THAT'S MOSTLY YOUR OWN PROBLEM REALLY, BECAUSE I'M NOT YOUR BOYFRIEND ANYMORE ... REMEMBER? BECAUSE OF THE WHOLE DUMPING THING THAT JUST HAPPENED? SO PLEASE, PLEASE, WOULD YOU JUST SHUT UP SO I CAN GO HOME AND CRY.
Now, there is no particular reason that an in-person breakup couldn't be handled with directness, clarity, and brevity. And yet, they never are.
So I would rather have the text.
I'd rather be dumped in a cold, indifferent way than be in a relationship with someone who doesn't care about me.
And I agree with Dan on this one. The guy isn't pissed off about being dumped via text; he's pissed off about being dumped at all.
This is true even if you would prefer to avoid the pathetic display of someone trying to convince you otherwise. If you don't want to have to face that (where you just, you know, witness it and stand your ground), then I'd say you shouldn't have fucked them in the first place and it's your own fault, not theirs."
YES. I've been trying to articulate this. Intimacy requires intimacy. Physical intimacy requires kindness.
Breaking up in a cafe (or any public place) is also a dick move.
P.S. you sound super mature and not bitter at all.
This bitch is clearly insane, but it seems like every time a bisexual person chooses to date someone of the opposite sex, certain gay people assume s/he is "choosing heterosexuality" or "choosing the opposite sex" even when that person is as open about their bisexuality and continued attraction to the same sex as possible. Basically you can't win unless you only date the same sex - i.e., if you pretend not to be bisexual, go back into the closet.
Standards vary with the generations.
I'm not bi but my girlfriend and my wife are.
Yes, the dumpee is, sadly, a class of persons specially prone to bitterness, for reasons that require no explanation. But I think there's a point in one's maturity when all-caps becomes, at times, the appropriate tonal choice.
And: a dick move? Why? Why on earth should I care if I'm dumped in a cafe or in a bedroom?
Once I'm no longer on intimate terms with the fellow, he is by his own choice a member of "the public" and I'll behave with public manners regardless of where we are.
Like the rule against text dumpings, the rule against public dumpings seems one based on a false idea of compassion that in fact takes no account of the actual inner experience of the other person.
Maybe you've never had one of those clinging types that simply refuses to believe you, and will practically BEG you to take them back and threaten suicide if you refuse. Texting is a great way to make a unilateral statement to someone who is absolutely batshit and who won't take no for an answer in the two-way conversation a call permits.
...why? Dumping the person basically means that you are no longer responsible for their feelings. You don't want to be responsible for their feelings. That's why you're dumping them in the first place!
For crying out loud, has no one seen that Seinfeild episode where George keeps trying to dump these two women and they just won't let it go? They say they have to "agree" in order for the breakup to be valid, so they just cling to him even though he's telling them it's over? Gee, it makes me glad I live in the age of texts.
We are not of course any more or less responsible for the feelings of other people because we are or are not dating them. It's not okay to be callous toward exes, dogs, or coat-check clerks simply because we have no prospect of sex with them.
(Any more than it is possible or desirable to "make happy" a miserable boyfriend)
As for talk of "those clingy types" - pah! Dan didn't go far enough this week in his dismissal of the second writer. It's flattering to be desired, and it's an ego boost to be able to tell friends (or an advice columnist!) "Crazy bitch can't get enough of me! Won't go away!"
I've heard this self-flattering line many a time from acquaintances - male, female, gay, straight. It is a story people love to tell on themselves. Never once has it failed that I see them later with the "crazy stalker who won't take no for an answer" feeding the poor sucker with little droplets of affection to keep them hanging on.
Certainly, in such a case making a clean break is the kindest thing the "stalked" manipulator can do. Whether by text or in person, simple honesty is the best form of kindness in the absence of love.
The only good part of that kind of selective honesty is that it's an honest revelation of what a cowardly douche the dumper is. And that is very good information to have.
Go for it, kid. At this age, it's all good. You'll have something to compare future female blowjobs to. You'll be able to know who gives better head, girls or guys.
One bit of caution, though. Make sure your buddy doesn't want to fall in love with you. If he's had a crush for a long time, will he get all weird about it now? If you even suspect he will, then don't let his mouth anywhere near your dick.
Um, I'm "old" as in old enough to vote.
But too young to rent a car. So... still young by most adult's standards.
Translation: old ain't got nothin' to do with it, son.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTKI9OUGV…
But if the person you're breaking up with is mature, reasonable, and non-insane, they deserve to be treated as such.
(I ended an abusive relationship from hell because I just, um, HAD to). But that was way back when, before texting became the modern norm; I simply had to get together a support system, cut loose, get the hell out of dodge, and start over.
@6 nailed it.
@85: Amen!
I once dated a guy a few times who dumped me by text. I was horrified! I was telling a friend that I thought it was the most callous and disrespectful thing to do, how could he, etc. when he said: "Babe, when you dumped ME, you did it by text." Er, ouch! I agree with Dan, there is no nice way to be dumped, all of them suck.I now prefer not to take it personally and try to understand that for whatever reason, this person does not think you are right for them or want to be with you. More than half the time they won't tell you the truth anyway. (Have you ever told anyone you are breaking up with them because they don't smell right?)Even if they found someone hotter, sexier, richer or whatever than me, it is still their right to move on. Will it make me feel better to know all this? I don't think so. These days I tell my current beau: "If you want to dump me, please text me, don't make me get dressed and come out to meet you just for telling me to my face, thank you!"
The only person I see making this conversation somewhat depressing is you.
Actually if you take a little look you'll see that both times someone agreed with me (the poster herself, in the second example). So I'm hardly alone in my opinion.
If you think pointing out shitty behaviour is more depressing than doing it, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it.
Like an open-casket viewing at a funeral, maybe a face-to-face dumping quiets any lingering doubt.
FWIW, this viewpoint comes from someone who lost her mom and dad during these past two years, plus was laid off and had a long term relationship end during these past three...
So, my point is, SMS, there are times when breaking up in person is MUCH worse than breaking up over text / the phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Tub_b1u…
Shoes!
Doesn't anybody care about the poor horny 16 y/o?
Breaking up with someone by text IS cowardly, especially when you don't even have the guts to ACTUALLY break up with the person! We also worked together, so that was excruciating, until his contract wasn't renewed ( thank Christ) and he left. A horrible experience.
Breaking up with someone by text IS cowardly, especially when you don't ACTUALLY break up with him or her! We also worked together, which made it excruciating. Thankfully, his contract wasn't renewed, so he left a few months later. A horrible experience.
Not really. Some horny 16 year old wants to take advantage of his insecure gay friend who he knows is interested in more than just sex? I'd rather address the gay friend.
Gay friend to the horny 16 year old, I know you are horny too, and there is nothing wrong with casual sex as long as you are safe and smart about it.
But this guy isn't going to give you what you want. You have feelings for this guy and he has clearly stated he isn't going to return them. He's willing to let you service his sexual needs and that's it.
At some point in your life you are going to have to develop some self respect and sense of self worth and stop letting yourself be used as a cum catcher by straight guys who care more about using you than caring about you. If you are going to have sex with "straight" guys at least do it on more even footing.
You may as well start now.
(hoping the gay friend reads Dan's column too).
My first impression was that texting was a lame way to end it (6 months of casual dating on top of a 6-7 year friendship), but after reading the texts I was kind of relieved that it went down that way. She clearly was unable to voice her feelings any other way, and then she didn't have to have her ego bruised seeing how deeply relieved I am for it to be over and to no longer feel constantly penalized for taking her at her word instead of reading her mind.
So, I don't think breakup by text is proper dating etiquette, I'm pretty comfortable with how it went down in this specific instance.
And now I see it with breaking up with someone via text message. I read the letter and have my own strong ideas, then read the comments and see how many have their own equally thought out and defendable ideas. What makes this interesting is that by the very nature of the problem, you can't come to a compromise or talk about it beforehand. You don't exactly say what you'd like when it comes time to break up. The conversation on whether you like something up your ass while being tied up and titillated is downright easy compared to discussing how long you need to have known someone before a person-to-person break-up is in order or whether a text message will do.