@Tits In Trouble: Your boyfriend sounds like a total control freak who is more than likely NOT going to dial back his power trip.
Face the fact that you're just going to have to DTMFA...

He's not going to get that you're NOT his "property" until you walk out and LEAVE him.

Seconding @1. This isn't a man who wants a consensual BDSM relationship; this is an abuser trying to go somewhere to happen. He was allowed to express his opinion — once — about the size of implants you wanted, but after that he needed to shut his trap.

This idiot is not your equal and it doesn't sound to me like he plays safely. I'd DTMFA and find someone more respectful of your emotional and bodily autonomy.

Seems to me that getting naked with a chick is the best way to work through his "sex-negative, woman-phobic zap." Surely Dan doesn't think that nobody should be allowed to have sex unless they're completely psychologically healthy?

There's clearly some sacrifice involved in having a sexual relationship with someone significantly more repressed than yourself, but should more sexually healthy people actually be discouraged from playing sex therapist if they want to?

For LW 2...

http://www.ohjoysextoy/bonerhiding/

Oh, and for LW 1, I'm gonna echo comments 1 & 3. You should not have let this man collar you - he thinks that makes you his property, full stop. If you just want to be submissive in the bedroom and not in your life, then he is not the Dom for you.

Call me old-fashioned, but it used to be that collaring was something even more serious than marriage. If a sub just wants a top to do kinky scenes with her and otherwise live life vanilla (with frequent arguments with her master!) of course that is fine, but it confuses the issue to say that one is "collared". She should return his collar and tell him she just wants a service top.

Absolutely a true Master/Mistress in a 24x7 total power exchange collared relationship would generally have control over the sub's appearance and control over other aspects of the sub's life. Implants are a permanent step, and of course the sub should have some input, but everything should have been discussed, rather than her going behind his back.

I think the dominant acted wrongly by forcing a collar on an unsuspecting bottom and making her think she was submissive. He should have known better. The way to rectify the situation is for her to return his collar and discuss her desire that he act like a service top.

I know that's also what Dan advised, but I wanted to be more specific.

"Countless websites devoted to shaming men who have erections in public"? I've never seen even one. I think BONER needs to stop looking for content that will only make him nervous.

If TIT's boyfriend can't respect her boundaries, she should chuck him. If she wants to give him one more chance via a frank talk, that's her biz, but it sounds like neither is what the other actually wants.

This was a really great week, a good range of questions and lots of them, little ranting or revisiting old territory on Dan's part.

However, I do think TIT at least deserved a brief mention of DTMFA as an option. TIT's boyfriend/self-designated Master seems to be an example of what happens when people think 50 Shades = BDSM.

Kink shouldn't be an excuse to reboot sexism (or to abuse one's partner). This whole "your body is mine" thing is obviously not fun for TIT and not part of their agreement--which makes it just plain old-fashioned misogyny and controlling behavior.

@7 - "call me old-fashioned, but..." then you go on to explain all the reasons why you are most definitely NOT old-fashioned. lol. Sorry- i have nothing to add.... just found the contradiction rather hilarious...

GTBHF - maybe i am a pessimist... but I don't see a bright future for you (a strong sex positive bisexual woman) with someone who is repressed via his origin and still considers himself a moderate Muslim. It seems like a potential nightmare outside the bedroom after sex has been introduced. If your question was about any random virgin, then i think Dan's advice is spot on... but one where there are so many other notions about intimacy involved.... good luck to you. Sincerely.

@10: LateBloomer, I thought that Marrena's comment was meant to be funny. At least I took it as intentional.

Boner- just don't go out of your way to wear bike shorts everywhere you go...and i think you are fine to ignore it wherever possible. There is an older guy up in my town (i think just a tourist) that i see every year at the same festival. He always has a boner. Its impossible to miss in his bike shorts... and he is seriously hung. If he was always in jeans or regular shorts... i don't think ANYONE would ever notice... but he is deliberate about it... and literally stops all the walking traffic when he walks by....

@ nocute... i assume you meant me... yeah... that certainly occurred to me... i couldnt pass up the comment either way.... too funny to ignore

Whoops! Yes, indeed, #14!

WTR - make sure you REALLY trust this guy (in that he won't stop using condoms with someone else.). I'd give him the same advice... I think THAT is where the risk lies....

@7 I understand that the terminology means something specific within the scene: if the cultural norms you describe are geographically universal and TITS is in the scene (likely, I'd say, if her boyfriend wants 24/7), then I can see how her terminology would be confusing and even inaccurate.

That's still a fair number of 'if' statements though. Loads of kinksters are not interested in the scene or socializing around kink, and you don't get to define their meanings for them. They're going to come up with different meanings personally around collaring -- it's a fairly obviously charged act, and one that comes up in various contexts with various meanings in kinky fiction -- and that's okay.

BONER I'm so jealous. I'm 47 and spontaneous public embarrassing erections are a thing of the past.

I wonder what conscious and subconscious expectations GTBHF's boyfriend has about sex. Having been in some cross-cultural relationships myself, I've experienced running head-on into barriers I never imagined could exist. It's possible to talk about things too much, but in situations like the one described, I'd advocate erring on the side of learning more about him, rather than less. On the flip side, there are delightful, or quirky, or curious experiences to be had as well...
WTR - how do you know your FWB isn't already getting benefits somewhere else?
TIT - sounds like a mismatch, and time to go.

Re. BONER: Once in a while I notice a dude with a spontaneous erection in public. I don't have a penis, but I understand that erections can happen at inconvenient times, and it's no big deal. I think it's a bigger faux-pas to stare at someone's boner in public than it is to have a boner in public.

(Unless, like the guy I encountered on the beach a while back, you are surreptitiously doing something to encourage the boner, in which case, fuck off.)

Remember kids, STI tests don't tell you your current health status. They tell you your status three months ago (because they test for antibodies that take three months for your immune system to mount when you catch something).

So bear that in mind when you "fluid bond".

OP1 may want to consider how much she'll mind if this guy projects shame and guilt onto her afterwards, or if he assumes she'll sleep with anybody because she slept with him.

@10 No, my post wasn't a joke. Old Guard BDSM traditions are very strict and had well-defined terms and expectations. The scene has gotten much looser over the decades. It sounds like the dominant is operating under the old rules and didn't get the memo that his "submissive" was simply a bottom. That's totally fine if consensual but everyone needs to communicate.

It would be like getting married and the husband starts sleeping around right after marriage. Of course open marriages are fine if both spouses agree, but the general connotation of wearing a wedding ring is that the person is in a monogamous relationship, so opening the marriage must be discussed. Likewise collaring signifies a TPE relationship. If the woman is seriously collared, rather than just wearing a collar during scenes, she needs to explain to her partner that he is merely a service top, there to perform scenes with her, and that any submission on her part ends with the scene. Or only extends to previously negotiated strict limits.

I've been in TIT's situation before. It's easy for Doms (esp newbie Doms) to confuse being dominant with being a fuckin' asshole. hopefully that's what's going on here, and they can renegotiate terms so the relationship works for them both. Worst case scenario this guy either wants a TPE that isn't in the offing or he's like this in all his relationships, BDSM or vanilla. In that case return to the lot -- he's a lemon and he'll be a heap of trouble for as long as TIT will but up with it.

I also recognize LW#1's situation too -- navigating someone else's religious head zap about sex is tricky to say the least. I can't speak to the intersection of Islam and secular culture specifically but I think Dan got it right where compared the LW's bf to a gay guy who's just come out of the closet. My advice would be to be sensitive about the religion thing but don't tolerate any BS.

P.s. That should be "put up" but I rather like "but up".

p.p.s. There are plenty of moderate Muslim communities in America, and I'd encourage the BF to find one. I'm sure such a community will be able to support him and help him decide how he wants his relationship with religion and God to be going forward. They might even have support specifically for people in his situation.

BONER - have you considered compression shorts? (Basically bike shorts but breathable) guys in my crew sometimes wear them under their unisuits to hide the bulge. You'd hate to row a race and have something embarrasing happen as you're recovering, like happened to this guy:

http://gawker.com/5932434/olympic-rower-…

@8 exactly. Those tumblrs with public boners aren't public shaming, it's PORN of hot guys!

@many this used to happen to me esp. in swim trunks. If you don't want it to happen: Wear a tight jock, tight speedos, then your loose trunks. Or wank it once, twice, whatever before you head to the pool or if you have a short recovery period quietly in the restroom stall just before you change to trunks, repeat if needed.

@29: I hope you think that nonconsensual upskirt shots are just hunky-dory, too. Ick.

RE: LW1/GTBHF: Dan's advice wasn't bad, but ick to a gay man and a woman telling a straight man what straight men have to feel or not feel in order to be "truly masculine."

LW2/BONER: Jeans are your friend. Everyone can see it if they stare at your crotch. Look nonchalant, and assume that nobody's staring at your crotch any more than you're staring at theirs.

@LW3/WTR, and WTR's partner: I hope you're very sure your partner would be using condoms with their other partners.

@LW4/TIT: I'm surprised the DTMFA didn't appear. Either negotiations weren't done explicitly enough, or you're dating a motherfucker. My guess is both.

Ms Rowing - Not generally a bad idea, but they live abroad.

@ Marrena 25 - I didn't think any of your post was a joke.... just the first half sentence....

For TIT-- The usually advice of DTMFA doesn't apply. In this case, it's got to be much stronger. I suggest: RUN!!! Get the hell out of there. There's no amount of great consensual sex that makes up for the sort of abusive controlling shit this guy is giving you. If he thinks that sort of anger is appropriate sex play, you two are not sexually compatible-- or any other sort of compatible. RUN!!

@28...umm...that rower isn't sporting a boner. I have a pretty practiced eye. That's just flaccid and held up by his shorts.

To put BONER at ease--one time Stephen Colbert (who is really hung) popped a boner on air when he had to walk from his desk to the interview table on The Colbert Report. The only people who noticed were the few of us crotch-watchers who always look. So if your boner is noticed, it will only be noticed by those who will be happy to see it.

For all the BDSM-haters posting that this TIT's guy is abusive, in a Master/slave relationship that practices 24x7 TPE, those sorts of activities are pretty standard (and negotiated, and usually wanted more by the submissive than the dominant). The dominant is an idiot for not realizing his girlfriend isn't a submissive, however, and there should have been more discussion so there weren't any surprises.

For GTBHF-- I like to pause for a moment after reading a letter before reading Dan's response. I don't think Dan was wrong, but I was going to go in a different direction. My advice is to go slow even if that means going slowly on schedule. He's never held hands with a woman? Okay, hold hands with him. Tell him that's what you're going to do and do just that for a week. Then tell him you'd like to kiss him, get his consent, and practice that for a while. All good? Try hugging fully clothed and standing up. The idea is not to tease. The idea is make sure he's on board every step of the way. This is also to make sure YOU'RE on board every step of the way. If it should turn out he has some you-must-be-a-slut-I-hate-you feelings, you want them to surface before you're too far along. This also has the advantage of making sure he has the chance to learn about his own tastes. He gets really turned on necking with you? He can go home and masturbate and realize what it is not to feel guilty about that. So you play around waist up for a while before unbuttoning trouser buttons the next night or even the next week later. Oh, and you have plenty of time to talk about birth control in an adult fashion-- and STDs and unwanted pregnancy and planned pregnancy. Some of the things we assume people know by the time they're 25 in the U.S. may be news to him so you want to uncover (and possibly correct) his attitudes on a time frame where you can talk about them reasonably.

GTBHF doesn't even say whether or not the guy knows about her history. I'd guess he does, since she doesn't mention it, but then again, she doesn't mention it.

If he's expecting her to be a virgin, how's that going to play out? Even if he knows and is ok with it, will it come back to haunt her later?

Caution is all I can counsel.

What sort of clothes and undergarments is BONER wearing? Granted I don't linger looking at men's crotches when I'm out in public, but even so, you'd think I'd have seen an erection once in all this time if they could commonly be seen. Since I haven't (I'm in my 50s), I have to conclude either that the vast majority of men don't get erections throughout the day (unlikely) or that they do and they're not all that visible through normal jeans and trousers (seems much more likely). A bathing suit is another story especially if it's clinging when wet, and for that, Dan's advice to flip over to start sunning your back makes sense to me.

If i get an ill-timed boner in public, i just point it straight up and tuck it in the elastic of my underwear.... then i avoid movements that would otherwise expose the tip.

Boner- be careful following Delta's advice at 29 TOO much... you don't want to be pool boner guy who was also overheard jacking it in the bathroom.....

@38: I suspect if you did look at men's crotches all the time, you'd spot some boners. They're apparently easy to not notice, if you're not looking. I think the LW is overestimating how many people are looking.

Marrena, do you recall which episode that is? Colbert is #1 on my guy crush list.

24/7 BDSM seems like bullshit for people to whack-off to, not a real thing unless you happen to live in the south pre-1860. A dom who insists on it displays a poor understanding of the power exchange that is taking place and the nature of human relationships. Knowing when to be a decent caring human being and when to be a cruel domineering asshole is what being a dom is all about.

That said, people like what they like and that can include physical characteristics. My wife has gorgeous big tits which I have always been attracted to, and like just as much as age has affected both of us. She has mentioned reduction before which I can understand and I would still love her with smaller boobs but my dick and the 14 year old who lives inside me would both be very sad. The letter writer and her boyfriends issues over her tits sound much less like a sub/dom problem and much more like a standard relationship disagreement based on unrealistic expectations.

And a big fuck you to the commenters tut-tutting about collars and not being submissive-hardcore enough for their tastes. It is literally none of your fucking business how others want to play their sex games and the "yer doing it wrong!" attitude that oozes from some BDSM types is a huge turn off and a reason that people avoid the scene despite being into the sex. That collar means whatever the fuck the two+ people involved want it to mean, no more and no less. So please, take your pompous accusations of 'fake' ness and shove them up your ass with a handful of broken glass. That real enough for ya?

Marrena and marilynsue: I defer to your expertise and years of experience, but just as there isn't one monolithic description of what it means to be married, or how a married couple should behave, or the division of labor in a marriage, or whether married people must cohabitate or what a married woman must call herself, etc., can't there be more than one way for a Dom/sub relationship to go and more than one understanding what being collared means to different people?

If TIT and her boyfriend consider themselves to be in a Dom/sub relationship and both see her wearing a collar as symbolic of the nature of their relationship, which for her doesn't include 24/7 100% submission even to the point where he decides how big her breasts will be, why is it any of our business to declare them Dom/sub poseurs just because that's not the way it says it should be in the Dom/sub bible?

It may well be that this disagreement between TIT and her bf suggests that they have a lot more talking and negotiating and defining the nature of their relationship, and it may be that with this big a disconnect over something as important as bodily autonomy they are going to end up breaking up, but if someone says she's a sub to her boyfriend's dom, who is anyone to say, in essence, "you're not doing it my way, or the way I'm used to seeing it done and therefore I say you're not really doing it; you're pretending to do some not-fully realized version of it."?

Hey drjones: our posts seem to have crossed. I agree with you completely.

@PennyLady, I don't remember the exact episode, although I did post about it on Colbertnation at the time! Most of the commenters didn't believe me. He had been making weird faces with his tongue sticking out and trying to touch his chin (which happens to be an old tantric trick for erections). Then he had a look of panic before he had to walk over to the desk, and ended up kicking his legs high in the air and making weird faces to try to hide it. It didn't hide it.

Then of course there was the Fonda episode. :D

Here he is flaccid and cold:

http://www.thestranger.com/binary/2c6c/1…

@44, 46: But with slightly less abrasive language.

For WTR,
You have the testing protocol backwards. You should not have sex with others (or anything less than the safest sex possible with others) for several months, and then get tested before going without condoms.

The window period for HIV is up to six months for the common, antibody test. Yes, 97% will test positive within three months, but one never knows who is in that remaining 3%. You could use the DNA test which has a much shorter window period.

So, let's say that one of you was infected with HIV 14 months ago, and that you both used the antibody test 12 weeks ago and tested negative. The other could be infected now.

The proper way to to this is to share history for six months (or much less if you use the DNA test), then test just before going bare.

And yeah, you need to trust your partner not only to be honest about sex with others, but also to know and follow all the details about proper condom use.

@nocutename Protocol is very important in BDSM because of the physical and emotional risks involved. Someone who just likes to play and do scenes should at least know enough about BDSM to explain that her collar does not denote the common understanding of what collars mean when she writes a public letter. And she should also make that clear to her dominant, which she obviously hasn't done.

@drjones All successful TPE 24x7 relationships are based on being decent caring human beings who have mutual respect for one another. There is a lot of anti-BDSM sentiment in this comments thread. It is very common in a collared relationship for a dominant to control aspects of the submissive's appearance. I have had a sub for several years, and I often take her to the salon and dictate what color her hair will be and how it will be cut. I control how she dresses. When we are both ready for me to collar her, she will have a tattoo of my name to denote my property. All of those things do not make me an asshole. She is turned on by all of that and by the practice of TPE. It's a kink.

There are specific collars that do not denote TPE, like collars of protection and training collars, etc., but those are usually described with modifiers.

@Marena: Here's TIT's letter in its entirety:

I'm in a BDSM-centered relationship with my Master/boyfriend and wear his collar. We have a tumultuous relationship and argue often. The center of these arguments seems to be that I see myself as a strong female and in control of many aspects of my life, and he'd rather have me just go along with whatever he says. I like some BDSM play in the bedroom, but he wants me to be submissive to him 24/7. I've wanted breast augmentation for many years. He joined me at the first consult and was talking about the smallest implants possible. I have a small chest, and he is attracted to small chests, but I knew I wanted something more substantial—especially since I am paying for it and it's my body. I ended up going bigger than what he wanted without telling him, and he's expressed anger about what I did to "his body" (he believes he owns my body) without his consent. I couldn't be happier with my boobs. He hates them. Now I just don't know about my boyfriend. I love him, but I feel like he can't remove himself from decisions I make for myself.

She doesn't say they are in a TPE. She says that the relationship is "BDSM-centered." I agree that it sounds like the two of them don't have their definitions of what this relationship is or isn't or is supposed to be or what they want in sync: she only wants "some BDSM play in the bedroom," and sees herself as "in control of many aspect of [her] life." Though she first calls him her "Master.boyfriend," she also says she feels like "he can't remove himself from decisions I make for myself." He clearly thinks she is his sub in the same way that your sub is yours.

So it's time for them to figure out whether or not the want the same things, how they can accommodate each other's needs, or if they need to end the relationship.
But if they choose to define their relationship as a BDSM-centered one and she wears a collar her boyfriend put on her, then that's what they have and that's what they're doing, whether you agree with the orthodoxy of it or not.

@Marrena @47, re: colbert picture
O-O holy crow

@47, 52: Right. And there's no way that a comedian would possibly be stuffing his pants, right?

lol @ the colbert pic. Geometrically...it doesn't look right. Hard to see HOW it could look like that if he wasn't stuffing his pants. It lacks continuity....

@44 drjones - if someone is using terminology incorrectly....it doesn't seem pompous to me for more experienced members of that community to correct them. If i claim to be a hardcore sports fan, then proceed to confuse a home run with a touchdown... i'd expect to be called out on it. Maybe this LW should've said they were a BDSM enthusiast instead of implying they knew what they were talking about....

@51 My point is that if she understood what terms and actions mean in the BDSM community, she could have avoided this issue and all those arguments. She should have said to her dominant, "I am looking for a service top". That type of relationship is very common in the BDSM community, and it isn't "lesser" or inferior in any way. That way she is clearly stating her desires in terms that everyone understands, and there is less room for misunderstanding.

In a similar note, I could say that I'm a lesbian. My partner is a crossdresser and how we identify in the privacy of our bedroom is our business. But if I wrote a letter to Dan saying that I was a lesbian, I would expect that actual lesbians would post comments.

Marrena - is a collared relationship meant to be permanent? Your tattoo comment surprised me... for lack of a better word

@Chairmanofthebored here's a video to see it in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqHMooXY…

A collared relationship is generally understood to be meant as permanent, similar to a marriage. Of course not all marriages last either. Collaring ceremonies can be as elaborate as a wedding reception, and usually there is a length of time similar to an engagement period before the collaring takes place.

@53, you sound just like those colbernation commenters. And that's why, during the segment, he grabbed for the American flag for a handy drape. Whatever he was packing, he brought it every night to The Colbert Report too.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q222/…

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q222/…

GTBHF

Living abroad, I saw this scenario often, and heard about it more often.

A modern western woman meets a guy from a religiously repressive and conservative country, while they are both living in a liberal western country (this last bit is key). They have fun, he gets laid for the first time, he's exotic for her, she's exotic for him, everyone around them is living the carefree life of expats anyway, and it's all good.

Until they get serious.

Then he starts thinking "how am I going to bring this girl home to my family?" and "what will my parents think?" This is when the repressive anti female crap he grew up around starts to come up: "you should be more like X" or "my mother doesn't do Y" and "nice girls don't (get drunk / stay out late / go dancing / talk back)" or whatever particular thing is or isn't done back home. Since things are serious, it's harder to DTMFA, and accommodations get made. From there, it's easy to end up in a marriage where she's never traditional enough for him and his family, and he's become way more conservative and repressive than the fun-loving guy she fell in love with. Or even worse, he's allowed to still have fun, but she's not. Heavy or very sad scenarios can play out from there.

Lots of cultures tacitly support the idea of young men sowing a few wild oats, and places like London, New York, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, etc. are great locales for this. However, when life gets more serious, people often go back to their roots. You've got to figure out if this guy is just having a fun time in the big city for a few years, or if he has truly broken away from his culture. The former case is way more common.

So BE CAREFUL.

And of course this one:

http://s137.photobucket.com/user/zaneblu…

I'll stop now.

@Marrena: How do you know she said anything about what she was looking for? How do you know she was looking within the BDSM community?
Maybe she met a guy, they started dating, one or the other of them started incorporating some BDSM elements, they really like/love each other and decided to call themselves a sub and her master. Or whatever. Maybe they both just read 50 Shades of Grey and got their ideas from that (disclaimer: I haven't read the book or seen the movie, so I have no idea how it presents topics like collaring and what it means to be a "dom" as distinct from a "service top," or who has the right to determine breast size).

There is a "you're doing it wrong" aspect to some kinksters that I find really off-putting. If they're going for a "kinkier than thou" thing what makes them any different from people who say things like "it's the wife's job to always defer to her husband?"
I suspect that neither TIT nor her bf have been part of the official "kink community" or the boyfriend/dom would not be spending his time arguing with his girlfriend about how much control and authority he has over her. He would simply cut her loose (Mr. Ven, I almost wrote "lose") and look for a sub more in keeping with his idea of one.

But they're allowed to have a BDSM-flavored and -centered relationship and she's allowed to wear a collar and he's allowed to be both her boyfriend out of the bedroom and her "master" in the bedroom, if that's what suits them both, and I don't think they should have to change what they call themselves or how they conceive the relationship to satisfy someone's rigid definition of the "right" way to do BDSM.

All I get from Marrena is that this is a case of poor communication between TIT and the guy, and that a greater understanding of the technical meanings of certain terms in the BDSM community would have been helpful to clarify their respective desires and intentions. Not unlike Dan's reply, just more in depth.

I certainly see nothing implying that they aren't "hardcore" enough or that they're "doing it wrong" as if there's only one right way to "do" it, beyond a general admonition that clear communication is vital when you're partaking in an activity that's so high-stakes.

I have some simple advice for both LW1 and LW3: DTMFA, ASAP.

Yes, yes, I know everyone is going to call me an asshole for saying it, but what else is new.

Oh, and I completely agree with Ean/59.

Marcelina- i assume you mean LW1 and LW4? And i dont recall anyone ever calling you an asshole.... other things... yep... but not asshole ;)

Unlike most other kinks, "doing it wrong" can lead to permanent injury or death, and even practicing the kink can get you arrested in some states. So it is important that BDSM kinksters learn about safe practices and learn about the scene. If she had been more familiar with the scene or at least read up on how BDSM is generally practiced, she would have realized that the limits conversation was missing from their relationship. And she would have also known either to say no to the collar, or say yes and make it totally clear to her top that it was a play collar only. For scenes only. And she wouldn't refer to her state as being "collared" when she talked with other BDSM kinksters.

@66: Good points, Marrena. I agree.

Please, allow me to make the largest, slowest wanking motion possible to the continued pomposity on display. What a wedding ring means an be entirely different for every couple, the same for a collar.

The last letter/update is more interesting though, I haven't read the book either but if arousal non-conformity is being defined by physical arousal that we mentally don't agree with or appreciate wouldn't that also apply to self-hating closet cases? When Marcus Bachmann gets a boner thinking about Brad Pitt does that mean that he's not REALLY aroused because his conscious mind doesn't want him to be aroused by men because Jesus? In the example of the young man aroused by but disgusted by the rape he witnessed if that same man was involved in some fake-rape roleplay and got aroused without the guilt but the same physical reaction how does that factor in?

I know the topic is important in terms of sexual assault in particular in that there is a desire to not have 'they were wet/hard' or 'they had an orgasm' be evidence against an assault having occurred. But just saying that what the conscious mind wants overrides all other considerations makes it seem like the church was right and we should go back to hiding our real desires and kinks. If it were not for our baser instincts and our bodies telling us what to do, no one would ever have any sex ever again, it's gross and weird.

59-ean-- I thought of urging caution as you did and would have except that GTBHF's question was about how to take this guy's virginity, not about how to or whether to form a long-term marriage relationship. That particular marriage formation seems to be in the air. One of Dear Prudence's recent letters was about a woman's possibly converting to Islam and possibly moving to the horribly restrictive Muslim country. My question to you since I've never lived abroad is: Does it ever work? Could this be a situation where you hear all the horror stories but never the good ones where the guy is just as glad to be out of that repressive atmosphere as women are and DOESN'T end up beating and otherwise harming his wife?

@65: Yeah, I meant LW1 and LW4. That is, if LW1 wants this dude for more than just sex. I'd say an LTR/marriage is pretty much out of the question, for the exact reasons that Ean stated.

"Not Without my Daughter" wasn't just some crazy unfathomable scenario. That shit is very real.

@drjones I will answer your question. Women's arousal depends both on physical arousal and neurotransmitter levels. If a woman is on strong antidepressants, she may exhibit signs of arousal but not feel desire because her serotonin is too high. As far as I know, men are more integrated in their arousal patterns, but I know less about male physiology. For example, men generally only show physical arousal with their sexual orientation. Women will often show physical arousal at anything sexual, even animals having sex. It seems to be an automatic response in all sexual circumstances and does not correlate with desire.

@69 - Crinoline

I've seen it work, certainly. I suppose it's worth noting that multicultural marriages are pretty common in places like I was living, and lots of people with super diverse backgrounds get together. There's weird cultural baggage, but there is always some kind of baggage in marriages anyway, right? I think it's when one of the parties is from somewhere or some sub-group that is particularly conservative that things get more difficult. Which is why this letter gave me pause.

I dunno Hunter.... kinda seems like DTMFA might be premature on this one. It really doesnt sound like she has had a "come to jesus" moment.... and explained in plain english that she misunderstood the implications of wearing a collar and isnt prepared to be his sub 24/7. Sounds like she has danced around it and simply "disobeyed" when it suited her. (dont get me wrong... that world is way out of my element.... just an observation based on all the bdsm feedback today)

Hunter - from my own point of view.... i agree. But i am not her. She obviously started the collared relationship for SOME reason.... its not like she woke up one morning in a collar....

And he clearly doesnt see her decisions as her own.... and it doesnt really sound like she has stated to him that they ARE her decisions to make... she just makes them.

Ultimately, sounds doomed... but... if she actually loves him, she could start by saying "i cant survive like this, are you open to change?". Who knows...maybe he is overzealous but also inexperienced in bdsm and will surprise her. Doubtful... but....

none of it is my cup of tea. Was just trying to put myself in her (or even his) shoes for a moment in time. She bit off more than she could chew.... and it seems no win ;)

@66: Marrena: "Unlike most other kinks, "doing it wrong" can lead to permanent injury or death, and even practicing the kink can get you arrested in some states. So it is important that BDSM kinksters learn about safe practices and learn about the scene. If she had been more familiar with the scene or at least read up on how BDSM is generally practiced, she would have realized that the limits conversation was missing from their relationship. And she would have also known either to say no to the collar, or say yes and make it totally clear to her top that it was a play collar only. For scenes only. And she wouldn't refer to her state as being "collared" when she talked with other BDSM kinksters."

1) The "you're doing it wrong" I was referring to @61 is not about a specific sex act that could go wrong and lead to permanent injury or death, it was a reference to people who take issue with someone else's use of language, self-identification, and description.

2) If the BDSM kinkster doesn't intend to be part of a "scene," why would she or he need to learn about it? Frankly I find any group of people that define themselves so strongly by their sexual acts to be kind of boring and I can't stand jargon; I would never talk about being "in scene," or "playing" with a partner, or whatever, but I can surrender my control to my partner and (happily) take a hell of a lot of pain with the best of them. I used to have a collar I wore only during sex (and only sometimes during sex at that) with a particular boyfriend and when we broke up and the collar was still at his house I asked him to please not use it on/with anyone else. He told me he never would--that he never could ("that's your collar"). So clearly that collar and what it symbolized to me and my ex-boyfriend was important to both of us, yet I wasn't "collared" in the way you and marilynsue envision that act. I didn't refer to myself as being "collared"--and neither does TIT; she says she "wear[s] his collar," which is something I could have said about my earlier boyfriend. The collar therefore has significance but we don't interpret it to signify the same relationship you think of. Just like my marriage was not like my friend's marriage or my sister's marriage. Yet all of us wore wedding rings.

3) SHE'S NOT TALKING WITH OTHER BDSM KINKSTERS. She's writing to Dan about a relationship issue she's having. There's no indication that her social circle consists of other kinksters, that she considers herself to be a kinkster, that she is part of any kind of "scene." Maybe she's not doing "scenes"with her Dom; she's having sex with her boyfriend. While being tied up, humiliated, hurt, whatever, and while wearing a collar.

Essentially every message you've posted consists of you wagging your finger at TIT because she's not a lifestyle BDSM sub in the way that you like to think of that term. But she never said she was.

Furthermore, her issue has nothing to do with safety from permanent injury and I haven't seen anything in your responses that suggest you're looking out for her safety. The issue she's having with her boyfriend are just more extreme versions of the same issues many women have with their partners who feel they have a right to control the woman's appearance. Nothing in the original letter was about sex per se at all.

A BDSM top who hasn't discussed limits with his bottom, and clearly they have not had that discussion, won't know her limits with rope, with pain implements, and any emotional or psychological limits that could be triggered during an intense scene and be very damaging.

When I "force" my partner to dye her hair with a color I like, that is as much "sex" as when I tie her up and gag her. Neither involve what most people would define as sex, but we both find both acts very sexual.

I would be VERY surprised to find out that Mr. Savage is not a BDSM kinkster. I know that he doesn't talk much about his personal life, and maybe all that leather that Terry wears is simply a style choice. But if you think I'm being a stickler about protocol, get in a conversation with Old Guard Leathermen.

LW1; Wait! Do not teach this man the ways of the flesh just yet.
First up you got to train him.
From what I've seen Some Middle Eastern men, have a perchant for women dressed head to foot in Black. Oh, and the face as well.
You gotta make sure he isn't one of these men.
While he's still a Virgin,
He's not showing you the man he will be after. And that man could be very different.
If, as you say, he is moderate- that's good. The conservative family? Means he's got conservative values lurking there. Which may not come into play, till his sex is activated.
Just make sure, he's heard you, before you two join bodies.
And Enjoy.

Nice performance, drjones. A little abrasive, but entertaining.

TIT: I'm with @1 madsucker & @3 ActionKate: your BDSM partner is a controlling abusive asshole with absolutely no regard to your needs or best interests and has no respect for your body. They're YOUR boobs, not his! YOU love your boobs--so dump his sorry ass already. Also agreed with @33 Crinoline: RUN! And this, too, from me: warn all your friends.
GTBHF: I'm with @37 infidel & @59 ean: Be open, loving, GGG, etc.; follow Dan's excellent advice---but proceed with caution, as infidel & ean both recommended.

@68 drjones: You grabbed my attention mentioning Brad Pitt.
@82: LavaGirl: Agreed.
LavaGirl: I didn't piss you off, I hope--I haven't heard from you in a while.
Hope all's well your way.

How is seandr?

Not at all Grizelda. I just haven't seen any comments from you, that I could join in on.
I'm good. Season finally turning. Mornings getting brisk. Nice.
How you doing? Any news on the course?

@36. Beautiful post.

Dr Jones - Assuming "facts" not in evidence. Ms Cute can hide Mr Bachmann on Team Kinsey Zero as the forty-second alternate right fielder; Team Homo has to play everybody. Until it is proved, I'm strongly inclined to treat the allegation as an intentional anti-gay slur. One could add that you risked putting poor Ms Grizelda off her passion for Mr Pitt, B, by stating such passion to be shared by such a vile creature. Whether one can go another step and find the tendency of such allegations in general to contain a misandrist flavour is open to interpretation.

I thought Dan should have advised the virginity taker to let him explore what feels good himself while having some patience. I was nodding along until "let him know that you're going to take the lead". I would change it to "let him know that you're going to show him what you like, and let him show you what he likes, because part of being a good lover is listening to your partner, as well as exploring what feels nice to both". The guiding forces of sex are both pleasure and respect. I'm sure Dan could say it better.

Marrena - I think the dominant acted wrongly by forcing a collar on an unsuspecting bottom and making her think she was submissive. He should have known better. The way to rectify the situation is for her to return his collar and discuss her desire that he act like a service top.
So she's not a real sub because she's not a total doormat 24/7, but he's a real dom because he is a total control freak 24/7. It seems like when a doormat and a control freak are happy together, they're called a dominant and a submissive. When they are unhappy together, they're called abuser and victim. It's not just what you like in bed, it's more like a lifestyle determined by mental disorder. Got it.

Ms Marcel - I shan't call you names, but what has Mr Virgin done to earn MF status? It's not even as if (as in the Prudie question, from a woman a bit farther along in the relationship, that also appeared on Tuesday) he's asked her to convert. I have no disagreement with any of the Proceed Cautiously posts - Ms Crinoline's, Mr Ean's, Ms Lava's or anyone else's, but think we enter dangerous waters if we start dishing out scarlet MFs without at least one voluntary act of full agency to deserve them. It sounds rather victim-blaming.

Hun - You're normal, you want some domination from him in bed. He's in a fringy sub-group looking for 24/7 domination over you.
Please stop norm shaming people. Whether her turn ons are normal or not are besides the point, the question is not about sex. And I think your ideas about normal sex behavior are more based on porn or cultural cliche than completely contented sex partners.

72 ean-- Thanks for your answer. I guess I was thinking of the times conservative upbringing/ more liberal upbringing relationships have worked in this country (the U.S.). The way that story goes, he (or she) is brought up in a fundamentalist sexually repressed surroundings, goes to college, meets someone more enlightened (by my reckoning), has his horizons expanded and his consciousness raised, and they go off happily together. Whatever objections are raised by the disapproving parents are dealt with by a repetition of "that's really none of your business". You don't usually hear of a few years going by before he decides that his parents were right all along and that his wife needs to repent or straighten up or be beaten the way you do when the parents are Muslim in a Muslim country instead of Christian here (where we all ostensibly believe in religious freedom).

Of course, it could go the other way. That's the one where sexually experimental woman decides for herself now that she's in a more traditional monogamous relationship that everything she did getting to that point was a sin so no one else should have the chances and advantages she did.

And thanks 86DarkHorse-- I hope it works out for GTBHF and all our cautions are unnecessary.

No strong vibration on this one, but the second LW could be a frequenter of MRA spaces. That would tie in neatly to the "countless" ongoing man-shaming enterprises. There was a good deal of MRA/MGTOW attention devoted to the Manspreading Problem sometime in the winter (or perhaps late autumn?). For the record, I'll go on note that, speaking as someone who appeared to considerable advantage in bicycle shorts (gee, our old La Salle ran great), I never had a problem on buses or trains sitting with my legs together or even crossed one knee over the other.

GTBHF
What country is this taking place in? Is her virgin a 'moderate' while living IN a predominantly Muslim country?

There used to be a State Dept. warning to American women thinking of marrying men from the Middle East. There was a well established pattern of these men going into reverse culture shock when they returned to the pressure and control of their families. Phylis Chesler may be on the odd side, but her report on her marriage to a 'moderate' Afghan, who did a werewolf like transformation on the plane home, is worth a look.

I myself have been a liberated Western lady abroad in a relationship with a moderate Muslim man. In my case, he was definitely no virgin (except to oral sex), so that wasn't so much an issue. But a longterm sexual relationship with a woman at his age ended one way in his culture: marriage. I made it really clear that I didn't think marriage would ever happen for us, but it definitely wouldn't happen in the "green card" way. He never really believed me on that, and eventually we had an angry and messy breakup after I left the country and he wasn't able to come with me on his own power. So I would caution LW1 about having a very clear, specific conversation about the limits of the relationship prior to becoming sexually intimate, or he may end up forming a lot of (reasonable) conclusions on the longevity of your relationship.

@85 LavaGirl: It's great to hear from you! So autumn approaches Queensland--I'll bet the fall foliage is beautiful there. About school: I still haven't heard anything back from the Music faculty at my local university yet about whether or not I got accepted into the graduate program in Composition--is that good or bad? The profs know me; they had me for undergrad studies way back when---but the competition to get in is dog-eat-dog brutal. After a month of no news, I'm wondering if they're worried about who's going to be the bearer of bad tidings (for me). Oh, well. It was worth a shot. I'm still working on Plan B.
Meanwhile, my latest composed short piece for flute choir and piano scored a big hit; my left ring fingernail injury from 03/26/15 is healing well (no fracture or damage to the nail bed---YAAY!),
I'm playing piccolo and possibly C flute for a local musical production, and could be in a local orchestra this fall. Good to keep practicing and writing---keeps me out of trouble (usually!).

Whatever happened to seandr?

@7,@25: Not wanting to do TPE doesn't necessarily make someone a "service top", nor does identifying as a submissive mean that someone is looking for TPE - slave would be a better word in that case.

@35: If it wasn't explicitly negotiated, it shouldn't be assumed. That's what makes TIT's BF an abusive MF. She probably isn't being clear enough about what she wants, but he's *definitely* doing it wrong.

@42: Fuck off with the "One True Way" bullshit. You're not special.

I hope the book referenced in the last letter puts an end to fictional rapes in which we are supposed to be convinced that the victim enjoyed it because they responded physically.

Regarding TIT's bf- it sounds kind of like if two people got married, and one had no idea what "marriage" meant and wrote in and said "I'm wearing his ring, now he thinks he should be the only guy I sleep with!" The demand only makes sense in the context of understanding the historical definition of the ceremony.

I have very close to zero knowledge about bdsm, but I do know that 24/7 d/s relationships exist. How do you have a relationship with someone who expects that from you and never sit them down and say "listen, this isn't what I want, it isn't going to hapoen?" It is pretty obvious that he sees things that way. Does that make him abusive if he's communicated HIS expectations and she hasn't set him straight?

I can see that one both ways.

My feeling is that she doesn't really want the whole bdsm enchilada, but she is a bit codependent and is being passive aggressive about it. Not telling him what she planned straight out was a sign that she knew it would be an issue. Why is she allowing him to continue to expect her to comply with his wishes? I think the whole situation is messed up.

@93 I think you're right about the LW being freaked out by MRA stuff about how its too easy to look creepy. But on the man-spreading stuff I never felt this to be an actual problem. Putting a spotlight on this and making hay over a few people being inconsiderate seems like a lot of hullabaloo to me. Is it more of a subway thing? Because I've never encountered seating problems on buses because men are taking up too much room. Everyone seems to be considerate about making room for others. Whenever I use the bus everybody tries to sit farther away from one another and keep a couple seats to themselves until it gets too crowded. I think it is indicative that men tend to make their bodies seem larger and women smaller though. I'm always changing my posture when seating and may spread out my legs or cross them at the ankle interchangeably. But I'm a physically small woman and take up little space anyway.

#102 How much of this is just socialization and personal space. Women tend to be more protective of their bodies. A man might be less uncomfortable with the idea of contact and so allow his personal space to touch the space next to his, leaving the woman to carve a buffer out of her own space, making it smaller.

I have a huge personal space issue, but always figure I'm the weird one.

@100: We're not monolithic, it's also possible to have multiple conflicting responses to the same experience (thinking not of an actual rape victim, for whom the revulsion is likely to be overpowering and singular, but of someone watching a scene in a movie, for instance).

@101: A better question might be "how do you have a 24/7 BDSM relationship with someone without ever explicitly telling them that that's what you expect?" Normally if you collar someone in the "traditional", serious sense, you have a Serious Fucking Conversation about it (and usually some sort of ceremony). I'm willing to bet they never had that conversation about his expectations and that he's pulling some passive-aggressive wannabe-Dom shit, either because he's clueless or because he's an abuser. They're both at fault, but the fault is probably much more with him, because power exchange is not the default relationship.

Next question stemming from the GTBHF letter: One of the stereotypes you used to find in the U.S. is that the man is supposed to know what he's doing, that he's supposed to lead the woman on their wedding night, the wedding night in which she a virgin and shy while he's eager and experienced. Therefore, if he's a virgin and she's not, then he has reason to feel anxious and insecure. He might feel that there's something emasculating about being led by a sexually empowered woman.

But is that the case in conservative Muslim countries? Might it be totally different? I get the thing about women supposing to be virgins, but couldn't it be the case that the stereotype there is that women magically know what they're doing the way men are supposed to here?

What are the assumptions about sex amongst Conservative Muslims? Do they have the whole pleasure and connection thing, the performance and mastery thing? I never thought about it before, and now I'm curious.

Can one or more of our Middle Eastern readers fill us in about the scene and what could be expected with that 25 yo man?

Boner- You're either too lazy or actually enjoy your public schtick (maybe you even wrote this letter in hope of getting to read some excited responses.)
In any case, there's plenty of tight underwear out there that will allow you to stay invisible even when you raise the flag. And if you can't find any at the men's store try one of those shapers easily found in any Macy's "Intimate Apparel" section.

Ms Tropic - I haven't been on a bus or train for some years now. I'm fairly small myself and have always tried to be as small as possible on public transport during busy hours. Even off-peak, my extra space consumption was generally just letting my bag have part of a double seat so long as there were still unoccupied double seats available.

I just heard a fair amount of the defence that men *need* to spread, in a way so earnest as almost to make me think I'd been sitting wrong all my life. The ideal retort would seem to be something along the line of Harriet Walter in Bedrooms and Hallways (in which she and Simon Callow play married therapists whose groups keep meeting at their home inconveniently at the same time) when her character Sybil seethes that her women's group is relegated to the tiny Inuit Room so that the men's group can have the Moroccan Room, because of course "they *need* the room for their eNORRRmous p*****s".

Grizelda, no news is good news, right.
Hold out hope.
Sounds good. I have a piano sitting in my studio. Learnt as a child,
and love it. But do I touch it?
There's a new EP out by a boy here, musical beauty, a young man called Daniel Johns.
The first bars of his first song, he plays a piano.
A real piano.
So envious of your musical life. All those beautiful instruments you can play. Good good woman.
Our Autumn doesn't look much different to the rest of the year. Big green tress and palms, everywhere. We've been very lucky with rain, everything is lush. Gonna hit the ocean tomorrow, Saturday.
Sean is around. He was on the daily thread, a couple of times.

vennominon- Yeah, this must be a case of a vocal minority making guys seem weird. Because the guys I know can close their legs just fine.