Features Aug 21, 2013 at 4:00 am

Turmoil in Egypt Through My Facebook Window

The Muslim Brotherhood has led an outrage campaign against Egyptian security forces, Christians, and anyone supporting Morsi’s ouster. This photo, taken August 18 in the central Egyptian city of Minya, shows a burned car outside a building belonging to a Christian charity, ransacked earlier this month. AFP / Getty Images

Comments

1
There's no mention at all of the fact that the energy shortages, crime surge, and traffic snarls that plagued Egypt under Morsi all vanished abruptly less than 48 hours after the coup.

The anti-Morsi demonstrations are described as democratic, representing demands of the people; the anti-coup demonstrations are not granted any such distinction, described instead as an "outrage campaign."

Like most Tamarud supporters and sympathizers, Maged Zaher appears to favor an authoritarian Egypt with a false front of democracy, where candidates for parties supported by the Muslim Brotherhood (and the factions to their right) are simply outlawed. But without all these unsightly massacres, if you please.

A truly democratic Egypt would be a right-wing Egypt, and Maged Zaher knows this, notwithstanding the little fantasy about Morsi being replaced with an imaginary candidate without Muslim suppport (and somehow precipitating the same Muslim Brotherhood reaction that the massacres have produced).

You can't force a liberal society first, and put off democracy until later. The United States did not wait until men without property were considered equal before it established democratic institutions. It did not wait until women were considered deserving of a vote. It did not wait until it was unacceptable to own another human being outright.

Democracy must come first.
2
It seems to me that secular Egyptians and liberals are between a very hard rock and a very hard place, and thank you Maged for giving voice to that.
The question being how to organize a substantive alternative to either military dictatorship or religious dictatorship. Support for such an alternative is clearly there, but the civic framework for organizing it is not. At least not yet.
Leaving for Vienna, as el-Baradei has done, doesn't help. I wish I knew what would.
3
Iran is the perfect example of an Islamist theocracy. And who wants to live there? Iranians aren't entirely to blame. We forced them into it with our CIA.
4
The one thing I see missing from all of the justifications/half-justifications of the coup is what specifically Morsi was doing that could justify such an extreme action. Mandating that shops close early in Cairo?

As @1 mentions above, the majority of the population in Egypt are conservative Muslims, hence you would expect that a democratically elected government would be conservative and Muslim. I can see where this would not sit well with liberal-minded urbanites, it sure would not sit well with me either if I was Egyptian, but democracy means you are stuck with the will of the majority. And if you want to do something about it you wait for the next election.
5
" the majority of the population in Egypt are conservative Muslims, hence you would expect that a democratically elected government would be conservative and Muslim "

It is a MYTH now . Morsi refused early election because MB Leadership knew that result would have been disastrous .. they accepted sort of civil war rather that being defeated in an election
6
You guys have awful reading comprehension.

You missed: "(It was Morsi who issued a constitutional declaration giving his decisions immunity from judicial overturning.)"

Do you not get it? There was no democracy under Morsi. There was an election. But that is NOT democracy. Saddam Hussein, Nasir, Sadat, and Mubarak all had election too. That doesn't mean shit.

Morsi rigged the one thing that mattered: The Constitution.

There is no democracy under a theocracy.

And no. The MB does not represent most Egytians or all Muslims in Egypt as this article makes clear. There is no clear good guy here. There are less bad guys. That's best you get. The military in the eyes of most Egyptians are the less bad guys.
9
Thank you, Maged for such a personal viewpoint on this complex situation. I think the West too often believes that if you follow a recipe of open elections it will lead to democracy. Democracy is a messy and difficult thing and we are still plagued by issues with it in the US as evidenced by the deep divisions in our own electorate and recent Supreme Court rulings on the VRA and Citizens United. LIke you, I have no idea where the answer lies but I think that the US must tread gently and thoughtfully and not respond with knee-jerk measures that could further destabilize the situation.
10
@6

In a fair, independently audited election, Egypt would have a majority conservative Muslim government.

You seem to be the only person offering an opinion about this, anywhere, who doesn't agree with that statement.
11
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12
It took decades for France to become a real democracy after their revolution, I don't see Egypt as having a head start on their road.
13
@10 and you unfortunately are part if a large contingent of know nothing's foolishly fetishizing elections as if they are the sole markers of civilized democracy. Saddam fucking Hussein had elections. It's the fair and functioning legal frame work of the constitution that matters. This is what you seem to refuse to understand. A theocratic system is not a democracy.

And "conservative Muslim" in no way automatically means Muslim Brotherhood. There is a wide spectrum of Muslims there. In fact MOST Muslims in Egypt favored a secular democratic state. Egyptians are not single social category robots.

What blows me away is here you an Egyptian sharing her experience and concerns. But YOU'RE an Egyptologist all of a sudden who knows more than she does. Even though you've never even been there.
14
Great piece Zaher. I recall Ian Bremmer's 2006 book "The J Curve" in which he stated that the only opposition group allowed was the Muslim brotherhood, suggesting their rise to power after Mubarak. His prescription was to not sanction Eypgt.
15
Whatever ultimately happens politically in most of the Islamic world, it won't be on the West's terms or timeline.

Many people tend to conflate democracy with freedom. This is an illusion. Here's another: elections guarantee democracy and freedom. It's been said before: Democracy will always be two wolves and lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. And true freedom is the recognition certain rights shall not be denied, even by a 99% vote.

An article in a recent issue of The American Interest touched on the arrogance behind the assumption all peoples seek to embrace liberal democracy, casting off undemocratic rule, holding elections and automatically welcoming Western values. We've spilt too much blood and spent too much treasure in both Iraq and Afghanistan on this presumption. And it wasn't just the NeoCons who preached this policy--so have a goodly number of progressives and liberal democrats, up to and including the current President.
16
@6 Judicial review of the constitutionality of the actions of an elected official is a brake on the function of democracy, not an example of democracy
17

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18
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19
@16 What? No.

Morsi himself crafted a constitutional clause that gave him absolute authority to strike or add anything he wanted to the constitution with out ANY review by the courts. He was creating an super-executive power that bypassed democratic checks.

So if the courts decided an executive law was unconstitutional - like baring women and christians from voting - he could say tough shit any time he wanted.
20
Thanks Maged for this thoughtful piece. I can identify with the loss of hope time after time, the anxiety, confusion, and the terrible position to be in when one needs to choose between evil and more evil.
This comes from a neighbor from the north-east although living here in Seattle for a long time now.
As you may suspect I belongs to the other group of people described as "passive" by that student, though I'm wondering where the idiot got that khara from.
Kulna majanin fi'l sharq al awsat.
21
I still have hope that real democracy will be achieved one day in Middle East, but I'm certain it won't be during my lifetime.

Thank you, Maged Zaher, for the great read.

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