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Mar 19 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
@mistral -- By your own numbers you damn yourself. The Seattle area is most definitely more affluent, with a higher mean wage than the rest of the state. That is one of the reason why today's minimum wage is not a "livable wage" around here. What should be obvious, however, is that most employers will pay the lowest rate the law or market forces will allow. What is also obvious is that with *any* amount of unemployment above 3% or so, employers have no market forces or incentive compelling them to pay a higher than minimum wage. Any number of prospective employees can "better themselves" by increasing their skills & education, but there will still be the exact same number of minimum wage paid employees, because that is all the employers are willing to pay. In fact if enough people became "highly skilled" the same way, there would be more competition for those "skilled jobs" allowing employers to pay *those* guys less. You should go read "Grapes of Wrath" some time.

Point is, in Seattle, we have a long way to go before we reach 45% of the avg mean. And the misnamed "job creators" are fighting to keep the minimum wage closer to 25%. (at least those who are not outright working to eliminate it all together). The economy is demand driven, not supply driven. People spend money when they have it to spend, not just because stuff is for sale. When more people have money to spend, the "job creators" at McD's will be selling more of their greasy pink slime.
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Mar 18 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
@mistral says: " One thing is certain and both of these economist agree, there is a negative effect on the economy when the min wage rises above 45% of the prevailing avg mean wages levels"

Fine: According to http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_wa.ht… (Bureau of Labor and Statistics) a year ago the Average Mean wage in *Washington* was $25.04/hr. 45% of that is $11.27/hr. On April 1st, the min wage rises to $11.00. So unless you are going to claim Seattle's Avg mean wage now is lower than the whole state a year ago, then by your own assertion, this is below the threshold of damaging the economy.
Mar 18 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
@57 -- Actually you just *don't* have to believe the in "depth study of the Seattle Times", because the restaurants mentioned are listed in the articles. But if you claim a restaurant is closing because of the min wage increase, and the restaurants themselves say that you're full of shit, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who to believe.

Unless, you know, it's a conspiracy. And they're all in on it.
Mar 18 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
When @mistral says "I just explained how things work" he of course means that he explained how he wishes thing worked, because of course he has ZERO evidence to back anything up, and what he is selling is a political ideology and that doesn't need facts.

That doesn't stop his allies from making bald-faced-lie claims either, with their end-of-the-restaurant-system-in-Seattle dooms-statements either, which the Seattle Times rules to be totally false:
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news…
Mar 18 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
@51 - I think your thoughts are proof positive of why economics is a dangerous hobby. It can even be dangerous for economists. The models that economists use are not as good as you think they are, and "economic theory" is actually (IMHO) mostly political agendas with just enough math slapped on to seem science-y.

I think you hit the nail on the head. "Economist theory" (whether left wing or right) is some of the worst of what gets passed off as "science". I think it is obvious that it is largely agenda driven, with the desired conclusion predetermined. Fortunately, we do have a few hundred years of data available and we can see, after the fact, that steps taken to alleviate poverty (like higher minimum wages, among others) do not cause the economic collapses that so-called "job creators" warn about. And we also have the data to show trickle-down theories don't really work.
Mar 17 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
@47 -- In the main, .higher min wages kill job & economic growth. It retards investment and reduces business investment.

Verifiable data please. We seem to be able to present ample data here that the minimum wage increases have nothing but positive effect on the economy. And we do in fact have a historical record, as I posted in @27, from the US Dept of Labor no less. If the minimum wage is so awful, please offer offer data points to support your right of it's job killing effects. You have given us nothing but right-wing fear mongering backed by nothing. In the meantime, our citizen democracy has voted in favor of what the DOL seems to believe to be a economic stimulating effort to alleviate poverty.
Mar 17 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
So what your saying @39 is: The old minimum wage (highest in the country) didn't kill the local economy, but by god, the new one will.
Mar 17 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
It is amazing @34, how bad off we have it in Seattle with a higher min wage than almost the entire company. We must have higher unemployment & more welfare queens than just about anywhere else. Meanwhile in all those red states, it is right-wing utopian heaven.... Poverty: GONE, Minimum wage: LOWEST IN THE COUNTRY, Welfare: NONEXISTENT. How could we be so blind. We should all follow the path of Mississippi, where the rich are free to be rich, and it benefits everyone (everyone that counts, anyway).
Mar 17 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
@29 - So at the end of the day, even during the turbulent 70's with interest rates and inflation topping out at 18% you were able to make it.

Sorry, just had to laugh at this... 18% interest rates were awfully hard on people.... who had the money to qualify for credit. For the working poor who spent all their money on food and rent? Not so much.

People who are anti-min-wage seem to think that paying poor people more money kills the economy... But the opposite is true. Poor people are not hording their extra few dollars; they are spending them to stay alive. Direct money to the Top of our economic pyramid and you have effectively removed it from the economy, and into banking and investment accounts, and eventually to heirs (who won't pay tax because/if the inheritance tax is removed) and who will pay a fraction of the rest of Americans, because in our upside down country, Earned Income is considered "more taxable" than the Investment Income that the Rich fund their lifestyle with. Direct stimulus to the middle class, and it is somewhat "more stimulating"... More nights out to the movies and dinner, maybe a new TV or Car, maybe some left over for Retirement. But direct it to the poor, and it will go through the was 5-10 times before it gets back up into the upper 1%, because nearly 100% of it will be spent in grocery stores and the occasional ice-cream-cone for the kids.

If the minimum wage goes up, one of the DIRECT BENEFICIARIES will be companies like McDonald's... There will be more money being spent at the low end of society, and places like McDonald's is one of the cheapest places a low-income family can afford to eat. They are a bit like Wal-Mart that way. And the increase in customers will allow McDonalds to hire more of your unskilled laborers.
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Mar 17 bgix commented on Judge Expected to Rule Today on Effort to Halt Minimum Wage Rollout for Fast Food Workers.
@26 - If a line cook makes currently $15/hour and under the new min wage utopia a dishwasher makes $15/hour.

Do you think the line cook (who has considerably more skill) will ask or demand more than $15/hour?


Gee, I don't know, that is a tough one. Does the law say he has to be paid more? I don't think so. Does it say he should get a 16% raise too? Maybe I'm missing something. Is he free to leave that job, and find one that pays better? I suppose he could, couldn't he? Are there other restaurants hiring cooks at a higher wage now that the minimum wage has increased? Maybe he finds a job outside the city limits so that with his $15/hr job he can still *feel* superior to the dishwasher. Maybe he sits down with his employer and they talk about it, and he considers his options.... maybe he throws down his sauce pan, and picks up a dirty plate to wash, because that was the job he had dreamed of anyway, and he was always burning his hands on the sauce-pan -- it's a win-win.
 

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