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Mar 19 avast2006 commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Too Drunk To Swing.
@43: Holy crap, those are some spectacularly unattractive individuals you hypothesize when you suggest they own up to their real motivations. Your version of her is basically, "I'm a taker who finds my husband convenient and useful as a provider, but boring" and your version of him is "I'm a vindictive asshole who believes my wife finds me inadequate, but I'll have my revenge through hate-fucking others." What a pair of prize individuals you posit, and what great motivations for staying married to each other.
Mar 19 avast2006 commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Too Drunk To Swing.
@41: Regarding who consented to what, and who wasn't in any condition to consent, I think that "You took advantage of my drunken state to talk me into going through with the thing that _I've_ been pushing _you_ into for years" sounds like some pretty nakedly self-serving bullshit rationalization here.

She implies -- though she never comes out and says it -- that she does not remember the conversation with her husband. Everyone here is taking that to mean he must have been substantially more sober than she was, and that he must have been the one who took advantage of her being wildly drunk to pry a Yes out of her. I do not for one minute believe that she was the reluctant party, or that she was the one who imposed the no-penetration-nor-oral rule for the evening to assuage a sudden attack of demureness on her part.

She admits she's been pushing for this for years, and she admits that she would have been perfectly happy fucking her own partner of the moment if the toilet hadn't made her an offer she couldn't refuse. Both of those are right there in the letter.

My take is that she offered her husband that rule as a way of easing him into the scene while he was still feeling uncomfortable. Then that evening, when it became clear that he had as sure a shot at getting laid as she did, she, drunk and horny and about to get her fantasy, offered to relax that rule because she figured he wouldn't be upset if he got laid too. And he, also drunk and horny and about to get laid, took her up on the offer.

Then the following morning, she's all, "I was too drunk to consent to what I talked you into," and he's like, "Dammit, it was you who's been grooming me for years now, and it was you who persuaded me that relaxing that rule would be fine. Take some fucking responsibility for your part in this."

I think what she is feeling is a taste of the cold-sweat of knowing your spouse fucked someone else and liked it, while you were left out in the cold. That could simply mean that for her this fantasy is crazy-hot as a fantasy, but actually kind of painful in real life. Or it could mean that she feels stupid because she worked a little too hard at making it happen and ended up playing herself. Or any number of other things.

The one thing that it most likely _isn't_ is her husband's fault.
Mar 17 avast2006 commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Too Drunk To Swing.
@38: "She was ill - violently ill, from the sound of it, and her husband was more invested in getting some strange than in her well-being."

That interpretation assumes that he was in a place to be aware that she was puking her guts out while he was getting some strange, and the letter does not contain enough information to support that one way or the other. IF he knew, then sure, hypothetically that would make him an asshole.

As far as the "ill, violently ill" part goes, my response is the same as it would be to my teenaged self. Aw, poor baby. Next time, don't drink so fucking much, stupid. That part, at least, doesn't require making up shit that isn't in the letter.
Mar 17 avast2006 commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: You Heard It Here First, Cousin.
Nobody gets to tell you whether the cousin thing should or should not be a kink too far for you. It's your brain, and if this makes you that uncomfortable, it is your prerogative to end the relationship as being unsuitable for you.

From over here it looks like you may be trying to pin all your unhappiness on this one thing, though. You may as well evaluate the overall load of drama that this relationship is carrying, the cousin thing being the latest item to add to the load. You were sufficiently fed up to try ending it once already, before you ever learned about their dalliances. I predict that the overall drama level between you and her is not something that is going to age well.
Mar 16 avast2006 commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Too Drunk To Swing.
@28: " My experience has been that puking drunk and black-out drunk are mutually exclusive."

Your physiology is not everyone's physiology. Anecdote is not data.

"It almost sounds like your husband has told you that you agreed to something you didn't."

Except that it was her who was pushing for it in the months leading up to this. I find it hard to swallow that the person who wanted it all along, who has been pushing for it all along, who deliberately lowered the hell out of her inhibitions, and the one who even in the aftermath seems quite candid in admitting that she in all likelihood would have had penetrative sex herself, had she not been prevented by her own overindulgence, was suddenly the demure, retiring one of the couple, who got talked into something she really didn't want to happen.

"You say you have no justification for feeling so hurt, but maybe that's because you husband has gaslighted you or because you're gaslighting yourself. "

Or she's gaslighting us as to who did or said what, and when.

"I’ve been the proponent for bringing other people into our sexual experiences, but he’s the one who ended up acting on it. Did I bring this on myself?"

Why yes, cupcake, you did. If that's actually what you are mad about -- that he actually got to go through with your fantasy, and you didn't -- then yes, you totally brought this on yourself.
Mar 16 avast2006 commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Too Drunk To Swing.
@26: "A few people in this thread have mentioned distrusting the LW's narrative. Why not distrust the husband's narrative?"

Wellllll, maybe because he hasn't actually given one yet.

Seriously, he hasn't. We've only heard her version of what he supposedly said to her, and she wasn't even very specific or consistent in relaying it.

I would like very much if Hubby could be persuaded to join the fray and tell us what happened in his own words. (In particular I would like to hear more about the discussions in the years leading up to this event.) In the meantime, there is one hell of a lot of making up details here in the peanut gallery, such as whether he should have or would have noticed she was off in the bathroom puking.

"Though he went forward with this and had sex with a new partner (both vaginal and oral), I ended up in the bathroom unable to keep the liquor down before any sex occurred" is awfully non-specific as to location or timing. Your mileage may vary, but that reads to me like they agreed to revise the rules, they went off separately each with their own partner of the moment, and some number of minutes later she had to excuse herself to run to the toilet.

Similarly, "with the man I was with" does not read to me particularly strongly that they remained in the same room or that she wanted them to. Surely her position would be a lot stronger if both of them had been going at it, watching each other, when she suddenly had to go have a prolonged conversation with the seals, and Hubby didn't so much as slow his rhythm? Surely that would have served as "justification for being hurt," the thing she specifically said she had none of?
Mar 15 avast2006 commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Too Drunk To Swing.
So, which of the two of you was the one who initiated the discussion about revising the ground rules while you both were wasted? WHOOPS is conspicuously vague about that little detail. Notice how in the first paragraph she characterizes it as, "we have discussed the potential of bringing other partners into the bedroom" -- a distinctly neutral and reciprocal-sounding description? And then in the middle of the narrative, it's "my husband and I had a conversation in which we decided..."? But in the last paragraph she finally admits that she's the one who has been pushing for this all along?

My "Unreliable Narrator" alarm is going off fit to bust. Dollars to donuts the "no penetration" rule was really more like "no getting penetrated." In other words, about making nervous Hubby a little less uncomfortable with the idea of his horny wife going out and getting enthusiastically laid by someone else, maybe a bunch of someone elses; and he agrees to the male equivalent just to make everything fair. Then she in her drunken, excited state, figured she could push her luck because they both were horny and with inhibitions drowning in alcohol, only she misjudged her intake and blew her chance.

Throw in a healthy dash of "I'm a woman and I was too drunk to consent to what went down, which automatically makes the man the bad guy," and this story is more complete than Letter Writer intended.
Feb 27 avast2006 commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Being A Couple & Sleeping in Separate Beds Is Cool, Too.
The sleep-talking and night terrors will require a different room, and a closed door between.

Sweats? Get waffle-weave cotton blankets, and a fan. You can control how much heat and moisture get wicked off by doubling up the blanket and pointing how directly the fan blows on you.

Pro-tip: squirrel-cage style blowers don't hum like regular fans, they just make white noise. (Which some people recommend to mask sounds to help sleep.. Why pay for a special white noise generator when you can get a fan that does the same thing and provides cooling?) They are also VERY directional, meaning you can aim one at half of a bed and not disturb the person on the other half if they don't like the moving air.

That, and what everybody else said about getting your cuddle time in while you are awake, and stop worrying about the sleeping arrangements. Quality time does not occur while you are unconscious. But sleeping better will make you happier and a better partner the next day.
Feb 14 avast2006 commented on Savage Love.
@134 &136: I'm not objecting to the girl-on-girl sex, and never have. I'm objecting to the game-playing during the negotiating. I've said that several times already. Your continued insistence that it's about the girl-on-girl sex indicates either pathetic reading comprehension or a commitment to straw men.

@137: Nobody has consented to anything at this point; you are talking about purely theoretical sex partners that you are theoretically in the process of pursuing, and you are referring to them by isolated body parts that you theoretically have a right to go get.
Feb 14 avast2006 commented on Savage Love.
@131 Lava Girl: "people fall in love outside the bedroom all the time, so no one can really make that promise ever."

I fully agree. So it's kind of doubly disingenuous of Girlfriend, as a bi person, to play that card. She's theoretically capable of falling in love with a considerably larger percentage of the population than he is. There is no guarantee that she isn't going to fall in love with her female fuck buddy, or that her limiting herself to other women isn't going to end just as badly for the relationship as him dating other women might.

"So can she offer something else in exchange, something not sexual? Like she makes him Sunday breakfast for a month and she only gets to be with another woman once. Then they talk. If she finds she is interested in being with women, then they renegotiate their boundaries."

Sounds like a reasonable suggestion, except that LW doesn't seem to think that such a thing would be a good trade from his viewpoint. Also, she has already revealed herself to be a bad-faith negotiator, so he's understandably resistant to negotiating.