8:58 AM
migrationist commented on Savage Love.
@seandr:
Your example is, in my opinion, taking sides, not validation. The problem is the "of course".
If someone in my chat said something like that I'd probably phrase it like "You were angry because you felt humiliated by your father in front of your friends."
Being angry is a fact, the humiliation might have happened or not but was definitely felt.
But yes, validation does not work for everyone with everyone. And it's not only the words, it's the whole exchange. The person who gets validated must feel taken seriously and understood by the other person (not necessarily been told that they are right).
Your example is, in my opinion, taking sides, not validation. The problem is the "of course".
If someone in my chat said something like that I'd probably phrase it like "You were angry because you felt humiliated by your father in front of your friends."
Being angry is a fact, the humiliation might have happened or not but was definitely felt.
But yes, validation does not work for everyone with everyone. And it's not only the words, it's the whole exchange. The person who gets validated must feel taken seriously and understood by the other person (not necessarily been told that they are right).
1:40 AM
migrationist commented on Savage Love.
@seandr:
Then please explain what validation is in your words.
I am neither a native speaker nor trained in psychological terminology, so when I simplify I might lose nuances without necessarily disagreeing with you.
And no, I am not a talk therapist. But I volunteered with dementia patients, and still volunteer in a weekly chat for troubled teenagers. For both, I got introduction courses into validation.
Since they were independent of each other, and focussed on different groups, and the courses were provided by different people (even different genders), and still taught the same thing, I think I got the basic technique right.
Then please explain what validation is in your words.
I am neither a native speaker nor trained in psychological terminology, so when I simplify I might lose nuances without necessarily disagreeing with you.
And no, I am not a talk therapist. But I volunteered with dementia patients, and still volunteer in a weekly chat for troubled teenagers. For both, I got introduction courses into validation.
Since they were independent of each other, and focussed on different groups, and the courses were provided by different people (even different genders), and still taught the same thing, I think I got the basic technique right.
11:29 PM yesterday
migrationist commented on SL Letter of the Day: Seconded.
@23:
I'd think he was creepy if he pretended to be a lesbian IRL.
I'd think he was creepy if he pretended to be a lesbian IRL.
11:17 PM yesterday
migrationist commented on Savage Love.
@seandr:
I am a bit confused about that validation business. In my understanding,to validate someone does not mean to agree with him/her. It's about acknowledging their feelings, not about blaming anyone.
I am a bit confused about that validation business. In my understanding,to validate someone does not mean to agree with him/her. It's about acknowledging their feelings, not about blaming anyone.
11:06 PM yesterday
migrationist commented on Savage Love.
@seeker:
Psychiatrists and psychologists help with different types of disorders, or different aspects of these disorders. A psychiatrist will be able to help someone with an eating disorder maybe by treating their depression with anti-depressiva, but not necessarily with dealing with the underlying self-worth issues, sexual abuse, or even just the behavioural challenges sufferers may face.
The psychologists you described reminded me of the psychoanalysts of the 70s or of Woody Allen movies where everyone seems to have to be in therapy forever.
The completely non-significant sample of psychotherapist clients that I know skews heavily to problems where a psychiatrist with a pill is not the only solution: homeless teenagers from abusive homes, teenagers with eating disorders, and teenagers who have been sexually abused. Or any combination of the above. They definitely need to process what has happened to them, but very often they also need to have behavioural therapy, and sometimes also psychiatric care.
In short, each of these forms of therapy has their place and has inherently their own duration.
More...
Psychiatrists and psychologists help with different types of disorders, or different aspects of these disorders. A psychiatrist will be able to help someone with an eating disorder maybe by treating their depression with anti-depressiva, but not necessarily with dealing with the underlying self-worth issues, sexual abuse, or even just the behavioural challenges sufferers may face.
The psychologists you described reminded me of the psychoanalysts of the 70s or of Woody Allen movies where everyone seems to have to be in therapy forever.
The completely non-significant sample of psychotherapist clients that I know skews heavily to problems where a psychiatrist with a pill is not the only solution: homeless teenagers from abusive homes, teenagers with eating disorders, and teenagers who have been sexually abused. Or any combination of the above. They definitely need to process what has happened to them, but very often they also need to have behavioural therapy, and sometimes also psychiatric care.
In short, each of these forms of therapy has their place and has inherently their own duration.
1:18 AM yesterday
migrationist commented on Savage Love.
I have been thinking about why the LW asks this question now, and not earlier. Was she really so traumatised by it at 14? Or did something else trigger these feelings now?
My reason for asking this is that I remember when I was around 20 and worked with handicapped children for a year. We had a one week training session about human sexuality for care givers- ranging from people who worked with babies to people who worked with the elderly. It was quite intense, and the topic of sexual abuse came up several times.
And suddenly I began asking myself if my father had abused me. The only thing I remembered was that I regularly slept in my parents' bed, my mother working the night shift, and that one morning I woke up and felt my father's penis against my back (we were spooning, he was asleep and now I guess he had an erection).
The question if other things had happened and I had just forgotten them, drove me quite crazy at that time, and I was asking myself if all my issues with having trouble to letting myself fall in love were due to some forgotten sexual abuse. (Yes, I was quite narcissistic at 20.)
I am glad I didn't discuss these feelings/ doubts with my father. And a few months later, I came to the conclusion that I was a bit highstrung because there was nothing that indicated abuse at all.
Anyway, what if the LW is just confused by her love life and sexuality and re-interprets things of the past to help explain to herself why things don't go now as she thinks they should be going?
More...
My reason for asking this is that I remember when I was around 20 and worked with handicapped children for a year. We had a one week training session about human sexuality for care givers- ranging from people who worked with babies to people who worked with the elderly. It was quite intense, and the topic of sexual abuse came up several times.
And suddenly I began asking myself if my father had abused me. The only thing I remembered was that I regularly slept in my parents' bed, my mother working the night shift, and that one morning I woke up and felt my father's penis against my back (we were spooning, he was asleep and now I guess he had an erection).
The question if other things had happened and I had just forgotten them, drove me quite crazy at that time, and I was asking myself if all my issues with having trouble to letting myself fall in love were due to some forgotten sexual abuse. (Yes, I was quite narcissistic at 20.)
I am glad I didn't discuss these feelings/ doubts with my father. And a few months later, I came to the conclusion that I was a bit highstrung because there was nothing that indicated abuse at all.
Anyway, what if the LW is just confused by her love life and sexuality and re-interprets things of the past to help explain to herself why things don't go now as she thinks they should be going?
May 23
migrationist commented on Savage Love.
@129:
Idiots like you make me almost want to apologise to shurenka for my misguidedness in my last post.
Idiots like you make me almost want to apologise to shurenka for my misguidedness in my last post.
May 23
migrationist commented on Savage Love.
@shurenka:
There is no behaviour that is not serious enough to be discussed if one of the involved persons feels the need to discuss it.
That said, there exists a huge difference in severity of sexual assault:
- someone grabs a boob without prior consent out of misguided enthusiasm. As long as the grabber backs off immediately when the grabbee shows her dislike. While the boob-owner may feel violated, there was no intent to harm, and yes, in my opinion, it is a very minor transgression.
- someone grabs a breast not in the heat of the moment but to show the woman her place and to threaten her. That is deeply misogynistic and a completely different situation, even though the physical act that happened is the same.
The problem I see with your approach that feeling violated is enough to blame the "perpetrator" is: feelings are subjective. Some situations can be objectively fine, but someone still feels violated. That means there must be someone who violated the "victim". So, even though the situation was objectively fine, there are suddenly a perpetrator and a victim.
If the situation happened as described by the LW, I don't see any need for the bf to apologise since he did not coerce her. And acknowledgement without apology won't make her find closure, either.
More...
There is no behaviour that is not serious enough to be discussed if one of the involved persons feels the need to discuss it.
That said, there exists a huge difference in severity of sexual assault:
- someone grabs a boob without prior consent out of misguided enthusiasm. As long as the grabber backs off immediately when the grabbee shows her dislike. While the boob-owner may feel violated, there was no intent to harm, and yes, in my opinion, it is a very minor transgression.
- someone grabs a breast not in the heat of the moment but to show the woman her place and to threaten her. That is deeply misogynistic and a completely different situation, even though the physical act that happened is the same.
The problem I see with your approach that feeling violated is enough to blame the "perpetrator" is: feelings are subjective. Some situations can be objectively fine, but someone still feels violated. That means there must be someone who violated the "victim". So, even though the situation was objectively fine, there are suddenly a perpetrator and a victim.
If the situation happened as described by the LW, I don't see any need for the bf to apologise since he did not coerce her. And acknowledgement without apology won't make her find closure, either.
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I think sometimes I am just not codependent enough to emphatise.