7:04 AM yesterday
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
201-nocute-- Yes, and let's take it a step further. We're so used to looking for cause and effect that we first discard he-came-when-we-were-dry-humping as the excuse for her panicked love making now. Then we conclude that it might be some early sex abuse that did it. I suggested in 54 that she might simply not like him-on-top positions for no reason at all. It's just something that doesn't feel good to her. Why do we need to find reasons for everything? Why, if there is a cause, can't it be some event, some bad dream or fairy tale monster that she randomly associated with being under something? I don't like eggplant, but I'm not looking for some traumatic experience in my long past that may have caused my avoidance of baba ganoush. Why can't she say now "honey, let's roll over" confident that her preference is all the excuse she needs without having to provide a subconsciously manufactured panic attack to justify?
May 23
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
111- Hunter-- No sooner do you ask for the yes-means-yes harpies than they appear. I wouldn't call them harpies. The yes-means-yes contingent is better terminology to me. It's a stand I don't agree with, but thanks to this column, I understand it well.
Something else that might help WSN get over her panickiness is understanding how scarred the rest of us are despite never having been in 14 year old dry hump-cum sessions. If it's not that, it's surely something else. We run around with this idea that if one particular event hadn't happened, then everything would be hunky dory, and we'd never have an awkward moment, we'd orgasm easily, and life would be roses. Truth is, if you hadn't had that upsetting experience when you were 14, you'd probably be complaining that you're 21 and have no experience at all and that you're not prepared for a relationship and you didn't know what a guy coming was like.
Something else that might help WSN get over her panickiness is understanding how scarred the rest of us are despite never having been in 14 year old dry hump-cum sessions. If it's not that, it's surely something else. We run around with this idea that if one particular event hadn't happened, then everything would be hunky dory, and we'd never have an awkward moment, we'd orgasm easily, and life would be roses. Truth is, if you hadn't had that upsetting experience when you were 14, you'd probably be complaining that you're 21 and have no experience at all and that you're not prepared for a relationship and you didn't know what a guy coming was like.
May 22
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
When Dan recommended that WSN not read the comments column, was it because he knew people would be telling her she was a crazy bitch or because he knew there would be people telling her she really was violated-- even if didn't fit the legal definition?
A note on therapy-- WSN should heed what portland scribe (16) and seeker (96) say about feminism. I still remember the time I was friend to someone who was crying rape with about as much justification as WSN. I suggested therapy, and apparently the therapist convinced my friend that she had to come to terms with the fact that she really had been raped as a ticket to healing. That I didn't want to talk about it with her (it would have meant accusing someone I didn't believe was a rapist) only meant to her that I was a participant in her victimization.
A note on therapy-- WSN should heed what portland scribe (16) and seeker (96) say about feminism. I still remember the time I was friend to someone who was crying rape with about as much justification as WSN. I suggested therapy, and apparently the therapist convinced my friend that she had to come to terms with the fact that she really had been raped as a ticket to healing. That I didn't want to talk about it with her (it would have meant accusing someone I didn't believe was a rapist) only meant to her that I was a participant in her victimization.
May 22
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
I love this discussion because it brings to the forefront all the inherent contradictions in sexual relationships, therapy, and closure.
No, the boyfriend did not do anything so wrong that he needs to apologize. Maybe an apology in the way you say "excuse me" for accidentally bumping into someone in a crowd, but not in the "I'm deeply sorry for my misdeed and the pain that I've caused you" sort of way.
Yes, WSN feels bad. That doesn't make her a shrew or any other of the horrible names people are quick to call her. It makes her as foolish and mixed up about strong feelings as most 14 year olds, and like so many of us, she still gets memories that make her cringe from things that others have forgotten. Welcome to the human race.
Still, WSN would like to feel better. To achieve that, she needs validation. Here's the contradiction. Her validation depends on blaming the long-ago boyfriend, either by calling the police and accusing him of rape or getting him to admit he did something wrong in the form of getting an apology.
Barring getting an apology out of him, she turns to the society at large for validation. From society (or this comments section) validation can take the form of sympathy, but the flip side of sympathy becomes an accusation again. It comes down to either her being O.K., deserving of sympathy, and him doing something wrong, or his being O.K., just a 14 year old and her having a crazy reaction.
Me, I'd like to offer sympathy to someone who's obviously hurting without implying that men are scum. Therapists are in this position all the time. They have to walk that fine line that involves normalizing, validating, being sympathetic, while not giving a distorted view of reality.
What to do? IPJ in 9 has a good idea when pointing out that a good therapist will tell you that your happiness should never depend on the feelings of other people. It's got to come from within.
Here are other ideas: Try forgiving him. You don't have to get in touch with him. Just think about how you feel, the harm you've felt, and decide that you'll forgive him for your own sake so you don't have to carry around the burden of blame you've been laying on him.
Also, remember that lots of women don't enjoy man-on-top positions. Nothing wrong with that. You may be panicking while flashing on the bad memory, but you might also just prefer some other position because it feels better to you.
There's another idea. Try looking him up on facebook and writing a note because you're looking up old friends. Tell him what you're doing now and ask about him. Don't bring up your brief sexual relationship. For that matter, I'd be very surprised if you hadn't looked him up already just to see what he looks like. You can find out a lot about how things stand without directly confronting old memories with him.
Pay attention to those who suggest that there may be something else causing your panicky feelings than that single incident. Of course, here comes another contradiction. We have this way in our society of equating the person who goes for help in therapy with the person who has done something wrong, the one who is weaker in some way. Don't fall for that. You're hurting; you get some help. It's that simple.
More...
No, the boyfriend did not do anything so wrong that he needs to apologize. Maybe an apology in the way you say "excuse me" for accidentally bumping into someone in a crowd, but not in the "I'm deeply sorry for my misdeed and the pain that I've caused you" sort of way.
Yes, WSN feels bad. That doesn't make her a shrew or any other of the horrible names people are quick to call her. It makes her as foolish and mixed up about strong feelings as most 14 year olds, and like so many of us, she still gets memories that make her cringe from things that others have forgotten. Welcome to the human race.
Still, WSN would like to feel better. To achieve that, she needs validation. Here's the contradiction. Her validation depends on blaming the long-ago boyfriend, either by calling the police and accusing him of rape or getting him to admit he did something wrong in the form of getting an apology.
Barring getting an apology out of him, she turns to the society at large for validation. From society (or this comments section) validation can take the form of sympathy, but the flip side of sympathy becomes an accusation again. It comes down to either her being O.K., deserving of sympathy, and him doing something wrong, or his being O.K., just a 14 year old and her having a crazy reaction.
Me, I'd like to offer sympathy to someone who's obviously hurting without implying that men are scum. Therapists are in this position all the time. They have to walk that fine line that involves normalizing, validating, being sympathetic, while not giving a distorted view of reality.
What to do? IPJ in 9 has a good idea when pointing out that a good therapist will tell you that your happiness should never depend on the feelings of other people. It's got to come from within.
Here are other ideas: Try forgiving him. You don't have to get in touch with him. Just think about how you feel, the harm you've felt, and decide that you'll forgive him for your own sake so you don't have to carry around the burden of blame you've been laying on him.
Also, remember that lots of women don't enjoy man-on-top positions. Nothing wrong with that. You may be panicking while flashing on the bad memory, but you might also just prefer some other position because it feels better to you.
There's another idea. Try looking him up on facebook and writing a note because you're looking up old friends. Tell him what you're doing now and ask about him. Don't bring up your brief sexual relationship. For that matter, I'd be very surprised if you hadn't looked him up already just to see what he looks like. You can find out a lot about how things stand without directly confronting old memories with him.
Pay attention to those who suggest that there may be something else causing your panicky feelings than that single incident. Of course, here comes another contradiction. We have this way in our society of equating the person who goes for help in therapy with the person who has done something wrong, the one who is weaker in some way. Don't fall for that. You're hurting; you get some help. It's that simple.
May 21
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
"And stay out of the online comments."
Heh. Dan does know us and love us afterall.
Heh. Dan does know us and love us afterall.
May 18
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
What about the guys? Isn't it unfair in general to pretend to be something you're not for the purpose of getting attention? Presumably, having gotten that attention, the DSGs do a quick turn-around and leave the guys hanging. Sounds despicable to me. That's where the tease comes in, not to the girls who are getting kissed, not to the lesbians who object on principle, it's to the guys watching.
May 17
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
Avast-- Yes, yes, and yes. I haven't been an active participant this week and am glad you've gotten around to saying what I've been thinking. Accidentally getting a guy's attention is one issue. Making out with a lady for the purpose of getting his attention is another. I'm glad the lesbians of the LW's acquaintance call her on her shit.
May 8
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
Let's say TSTQ's husband is lazy or evil. The best thing to do would be to protect herself financially and take the steps necessary to get out of the marriage.
Let's say TSTQ's husband is depressed or otherwise mentally ill. The best way to help him get the treatment he needs is to give him a wake up call by protecting herself financially and taking the steps necessary to get out of the marriage.
Let's say that taking those steps does wonders for TSTQ's husband either by making him see that he won't have TSTQ to support him while he plays video games and watches porn or by getting him into a treatment that works for his mental illness. Let's say TSTQ's husband does a turn around and goes back to being the hardworking happy cosmically connected man she thought she was marrying. Great! Let's say that doesn't happen. Then at least she's out of the marriage.
In fact, this logic might be what TSTQ needs to hear in order to help her feel good about divorcing her husband. It's natural to have misgivings about giving up on the marriage so soon. It feels like failure, and it feels like she's doing something bad to someone she still loves. But TSTQ, look at it like this. Divorcing your husband the best thing you could do for him. It's not a selfish act with our own self interest in mind. It's a selfless act, something you do for him. You divorce, and he gets his act together one way or the other. Win/win. Go for it.
More...
Let's say TSTQ's husband is lazy or evil. The best thing to do would be to protect herself financially and take the steps necessary to get out of the marriage.
Let's say TSTQ's husband is depressed or otherwise mentally ill. The best way to help him get the treatment he needs is to give him a wake up call by protecting herself financially and taking the steps necessary to get out of the marriage.
Let's say that taking those steps does wonders for TSTQ's husband either by making him see that he won't have TSTQ to support him while he plays video games and watches porn or by getting him into a treatment that works for his mental illness. Let's say TSTQ's husband does a turn around and goes back to being the hardworking happy cosmically connected man she thought she was marrying. Great! Let's say that doesn't happen. Then at least she's out of the marriage.
In fact, this logic might be what TSTQ needs to hear in order to help her feel good about divorcing her husband. It's natural to have misgivings about giving up on the marriage so soon. It feels like failure, and it feels like she's doing something bad to someone she still loves. But TSTQ, look at it like this. Divorcing your husband the best thing you could do for him. It's not a selfish act with our own self interest in mind. It's a selfless act, something you do for him. You divorce, and he gets his act together one way or the other. Win/win. Go for it.
May 8
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
My objection to Dear Abby and Dr. Phil type advice givers was never that they were too puritanical. It's that the questions were too easy. There was never any grey area so there was never a need for nuance or insight. Any idiot could give the advice they gave, no degree or experience needed. That's what we've got with TSTQ, and that's why I'm disgruntled with Dan on this one. Of course she needs to get out of that marriage! Any 8th grader could tell her that. Same for the letter writer's grandmother. It's too obvious.
Want insight and nuance? Well, the folks who are bringing up possibilities of depression or other mental illness are right, but that's obvious too.
I'd be more interested in a real quandary like if the husband's injury kept him in a wheelchair so he couldn't work or if he was keeping house but not making much money, something so we'd have to weigh pros and cons, loyalty against self preservation. (If we really think that depression and alcoholism are diseases that affect the brain as opposed to any other part of the body, why does it feel so skunky if a new wife abandons a husband who's come down with M.S. or cancer but not with a mental illness?)
I'd also point out that waiting a year or two instead of marrying after a good whirlwind few months is no guarantee. Marriages after a short acquaintance can work out beautifully and marriages after a long one can still fail. I'd be interested in comparative statistics.
More...
Want insight and nuance? Well, the folks who are bringing up possibilities of depression or other mental illness are right, but that's obvious too.
I'd be more interested in a real quandary like if the husband's injury kept him in a wheelchair so he couldn't work or if he was keeping house but not making much money, something so we'd have to weigh pros and cons, loyalty against self preservation. (If we really think that depression and alcoholism are diseases that affect the brain as opposed to any other part of the body, why does it feel so skunky if a new wife abandons a husband who's come down with M.S. or cancer but not with a mental illness?)
I'd also point out that waiting a year or two instead of marrying after a good whirlwind few months is no guarantee. Marriages after a short acquaintance can work out beautifully and marriages after a long one can still fail. I'd be interested in comparative statistics.
May 2
Crinoline commented on Savage Love.
69 and the rest of the WIFE discussion-- Go back to the original letter. "Not long ago we decided that a monogamish arrangement appealed to us both." This is not a letter about a woman at home wanting to cheat on her husband. If it were, the direction this whole discussion is taking would make sense. For that matter, I'd be in the strange position of agreeing with 40-kalakala.
This is a letter about a confused woman who says one thing at the beginning of her letter and something else at the end of it. She starts with how strong their marriage is and how they both like the idea of monogamish. She ends with how she wants to have sex with other people but is jealous of her husband doing the same. She's wants to figure out a way to answer to both, but I don't think either I, nor anyone here, nor Dan can give her that answer. She's asking for the impossible.
This is a letter about a confused woman who says one thing at the beginning of her letter and something else at the end of it. She starts with how strong their marriage is and how they both like the idea of monogamish. She ends with how she wants to have sex with other people but is jealous of her husband doing the same. She's wants to figure out a way to answer to both, but I don't think either I, nor anyone here, nor Dan can give her that answer. She's asking for the impossible.
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