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Average-sized, average-looking guy with nice eyes and a cut body is seeking a...whoops. Wrong profile.

May 4, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love.
Thanks for that, DarkHorse. That was well said.

To be honest I was looking for a scrap and I got it. I'm glad BiDanFan gave me a slap, I totally earned it.

And now I really am going to take my shitty outlook elsewhere and try to change it. Not sure how but whatever I'm doing now ain't working, so time to change my habits and come up with a better approach to life. I don't know what that's going to look like, but I'm off to find out. Love to all.

May 3, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love.
BiDanFan -- "And that's a really sexist assumption." Well, only if it's not true. We're getting some corroborating evidence here that the desire for a working man is just as much cultural as practical. It's just not polite to say so. You think all the starlets chasing the Donald are motivated by his personal charm? So why would a middle-class woman chasing a bland young doctor be motivated any differently? The only question is whether we take that cynically, or affectionately, or resignedly, or cheerfully.... Flapping the hands and pretending it isn't so doesn't wash, though. Not that you're hand-flapping. I speak generally.

And clearly, much of the assembled company--you and nocute and DarkHorse amongst others--don't buy into it, and live that. Same with a lot of women I know. And yet...these are the same women who feel vaguely unattracted to good-looking stay-at-home dads. Strange.

Unlike you, BDF, I actually don't mind traditional gender roles. That's not the issue. Mrs. Bloomer and I divvied up the marital duties in a fairly traditional way, and as a feminist, I'm totally okay with that. Being the breadwinner suits my temperament, up to a point. I don't believe it entitles me to a greater share of the glory, it was just a practical solution that made good use of Mrs. B's greater patience with young children and higher tolerance for domestic stuff--not that she is able to do that for more than a few years and stay sane, which is also fine.

But I think of being breadwinner as playing a role--I put on the suit, I go to work, I act responsible. And I've noticed that the more thoroughly I embrace that role, and the more obviously I present as a salaried dude with status, the more attention I get from women. I don't know, call me naive but I find that off-putting. Like, the most attractive thing I can do is look like more money. So much for my personal charms, you know? Such as they are. So I'm opting for the cynical interpretation this week because I feel like being a contrary tit.

You know, I guess I am being kind of cranky lately. Thanks for the heads up on that, Allison. I think I better excuse myself, go sort out my shit and come back later.
May 3, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love.
I'm also kind of surprised no one took the position that IHSN's stat is concrete evidence how much harder the world is on women financially. The fact that fewer men are concerned about their partner's employability just shows how oblivious they are to their own expectations of a solvent future.

So calling women mercenary is basically shaming them for being at a disadvantage. Classy. I'm willing to auction off this interpretation. Any takers?
May 3, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love.
BiDanFan, I don't think I cling to suburban roles, I generally trot them out as anecdotal evidence to counter the prevailing wisdom here. It's like the world I generally experience gets wished away by posters who want the world to line up with their politics. And it's not like I live in a conservative red state or anything.

@195 -- Yup. I was totally being provocative. But we still haven't established why "wanting to marry grownups" is synonymous for women with "wanting to marry a steady job", but less so for men. Different expectations of partners? Different expectations of marriage? You state it as a self-evident practicality, I'm saying it's a cultural expectation we mostly avoid talking about. Given the tenor of the debate, you can see why.

Now that I'm called on it, I realize the reason I'm so cynical about this requirement from a future husband is that I'm assuming that the women in question aren't holding themselves to the same standard, which is not necessarily true, and if women expect the same from themselves then that's fair.

I just remembered. I do know one stay-at-home mom. She does lots of crafts and painting when the kids are at school. Super nice.
May 2, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love.
I have to admit that I don't know a single woman my age who doesn't work damn hard. That being the case, I honestly can't account for that 78% statistic--back in the days of committing to a long-term relationship, I don't think the question "Does she have a decent job?" even entered the top ten for me. It's such a bizarre place to go. I guess I just always assumed that I would eventually be making a living and of course that's something I'd want to share with a life partner. Anyway, I found it an interesting insight into how men and women think differently. And I'm glad we could have this little chat about it.

Although I don't know any women who sit on the couch eating bonbons, I do know two kept men. One has a small law firm that his very successful wife only barely tolerates (it's sort of an annoying hobby he has that gets in the way of his helping her have a career and a family), and the other is a stay-at-home dad who trains endlessly and competes in endurance sports. They're both affable and good-looking, and the impression I got from overhearing a conversation amongst some of the school moms is that these women have a hard time respecting them. It's like they aren't being who they're supposed to be, they're not contributing enough, and it diminishes them. So smart, fit, capable men are less-than if they are not earning money, even if they do other things of value. According to my anecdote. And my local morality police.
May 2, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love.
Oh, you'll get no argument from me that men can be daft and shallow in their choice of a mate. And I didn't say it was stupid to care about a partner's salary. I just get a kick out of the romantic rhetoric people use to ennoble the search for a money tree.

Supporting a lazy wife is just as much of a drag as supporting a lazy husband. So why, according to IHSN's survey, do so many more women than men care about their partner's "independence", to use the acceptable euphemism? There's plenty of other ways to measure a person's integrity and character. Yet seventy-eight percent of women consider a man's job "very important". I have a theory about the abiding expectations of patriarchy; BiDanFan has a theory about kids; ciods has a theory that it's not necessarily about the money, it's more about character; what do the rest of you have other than "well I never"?
May 1, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love.
So, the takeaway is...what? That many women are mercenary?

That "I want someone stable and reliable" = "I want someone else to pay my bills"?

That the perks of patriarchy die hard?

That "It's true love!" is just self-serving, self-deceiving bullshit?

I must say, if your romantic deal-breaker is a guy's salary, there's really no polite way to spin that.
Apr 26, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Boyfriend Slow-Walking His Divorce.
Urgutha @7 -- "The LW should try taking some pleasure in what she has instead of constantly complaining about what she wants."

It's like the epitaph for several billion failed relationships.
Apr 18, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: The Constant Question.
To use a specific example, DarkHorse, Mrs. Bloomer would probably resent your speaking on her behalf. She would deny that there is anything in our particular dynamic other than her naturally low libido, and would not appreciate your pressuring her to cop to desires she doesn't possess. And just try to tell her that she's living in denial, I dare you. And yes, she's as feminist as the next enlightened gal. She is aware of her options. So I'm not so sure about your approach. It worked for you, obviously...
Apr 18, 2016 LateBloomer commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: The Constant Question.
futurecatlady -- sorry, that was mostly a rhetorical question. I'm not looking for help today, just trying to get my own experiences acknowledged.

DarkHorseRising I remember your background and I totally get where you're coming from, and I think it's healthy. I am glad you've embraced and own your sexuality. I'm talking about the women who don't do that. I still can't figure out how much of that is social pressure, how much natural disinclination, how much the inevitable effects of a certain kind of long-term relationship, and how much denial. Doesn't really matter, if things are entrenched the only solution seems to be separation of some kind...either to give incompatible partners a chance at a new direction, or to allow a stifled libido the chance to grow again, depending on what your interpretation is.

I am familiar with the feminist analysis of male privilege and sexual dynamics. It's not my experience, and not a lot of what I see around me, which is the point I've been trying to make this whole time. Guys can be possessive too? Yup. No doubt about that. European men used to commonly have mistresses a generation ago? Great. Meanwhile, this is where I live and this is what I experience. I hear it's pretty common.