TMI
- Dan Savage or Charles Mudede
- Dicks or Vaginas
- What song do you never want to hear again?: "Don't Stop Believin'"
- Where's your hairiest square inch?: ... my head? as it should be
- Bring It On or Stomp the Yard
4:43 PM
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
@seandr
You do realize that in the radfem world your nanny's a man, right? :P
You do realize that in the radfem world your nanny's a man, right? :P
4:37 PM
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
Okay look...
1. I never used the phrase "real sex". Let's just be super clear on that. So, the moment we are engaged in a discours about what constitutes "real sex" didn't happen.
2. If someone who is nothing like me is using me saying "I don't experience non-PIV as 'sex', personally" as a reason they need to go out and emulate me (to their own detriment!) then I had best sign a record label because I must have some undue influence on malleable people.
Me not experiencing "sex" with women as "sex" for me, doesn't invalidate the fact that lesbians experience that "sex" as "sex". How could it unless I had some magical ability to define the universe? The fact that other people call x or y sex doesn't make it any more sexlike for me, why does me not calling it sex make it any less sexlike for them?
3. If you're suggesting that straight-privilege makes hetero people instant arbiters of what is and isn't sex (for other people! strangers, in fact!) by nature of what we do most, then the increased pressure to have anal sex is a powerful counterargument to that suggestion seeing as fellatio is more common in the straight world than anal sex.
Also, you never answered my question. If you asked someone what they did last night and they said "had sex" when really they were masturbating, do you feel that's misleading for them to say? Do you think others would find it misleading? Is it wrong for them to feel that way? Is the presumption that "sex" means "partnered sex" damaging and invalidating?
More...
1. I never used the phrase "real sex". Let's just be super clear on that. So, the moment we are engaged in a discours about what constitutes "real sex" didn't happen.
2. If someone who is nothing like me is using me saying "I don't experience non-PIV as 'sex', personally" as a reason they need to go out and emulate me (to their own detriment!) then I had best sign a record label because I must have some undue influence on malleable people.
Me not experiencing "sex" with women as "sex" for me, doesn't invalidate the fact that lesbians experience that "sex" as "sex". How could it unless I had some magical ability to define the universe? The fact that other people call x or y sex doesn't make it any more sexlike for me, why does me not calling it sex make it any less sexlike for them?
3. If you're suggesting that straight-privilege makes hetero people instant arbiters of what is and isn't sex (for other people! strangers, in fact!) by nature of what we do most, then the increased pressure to have anal sex is a powerful counterargument to that suggestion seeing as fellatio is more common in the straight world than anal sex.
Also, you never answered my question. If you asked someone what they did last night and they said "had sex" when really they were masturbating, do you feel that's misleading for them to say? Do you think others would find it misleading? Is it wrong for them to feel that way? Is the presumption that "sex" means "partnered sex" damaging and invalidating?
3:39 PM
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
Just to be clear - not that it will stave off the onslaught from what I just said - if you think that women and men currently have an even playing field, you are way off.
3:34 PM
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
@seandr
Do you really not understand someone taking the piss?
I actually agree with what you're implying though.
I don't want to live in a world where there are 50% female firefighters. The idea that if the "playing field" were level there would be 50% female presidents and 50% female engineers is based on the (absurd) premise that sexual dimorphism is a magical quality that affects only the physiology that doesn't influence behaviour. Or to put it more simply: the premise that men and women would be identical (at least psychologically, behaviourally, mentally) if it weren't for sexism. It hinges on the debunked concept of a brain-body duality.
Still though, I think it's simplistic (and counter to any useful approach to equality) to view it as wins and losses. There are pros and cons to existing as either gender, the idea isn't (to my mind) to make the pros and cons identical, but to remove/minimize the more egregious cons (and I suppose, the exploitative pros that result).
Do you really not understand someone taking the piss?
I actually agree with what you're implying though.
I don't want to live in a world where there are 50% female firefighters. The idea that if the "playing field" were level there would be 50% female presidents and 50% female engineers is based on the (absurd) premise that sexual dimorphism is a magical quality that affects only the physiology that doesn't influence behaviour. Or to put it more simply: the premise that men and women would be identical (at least psychologically, behaviourally, mentally) if it weren't for sexism. It hinges on the debunked concept of a brain-body duality.
Still though, I think it's simplistic (and counter to any useful approach to equality) to view it as wins and losses. There are pros and cons to existing as either gender, the idea isn't (to my mind) to make the pros and cons identical, but to remove/minimize the more egregious cons (and I suppose, the exploitative pros that result).
2:30 PM
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
@246
Actually it was someone else saying that my definition of sex was dishonest, not the other way around.
I commented that most people would consider someone describing masturbation as "sex" slightly dishonest by convention. *shrug* My point was that I don't see how the assumption of PIV (which people are contesting) is any more unfair than the assumption of partnered. Or is that not as common of an assumption as I thought?
Statistically speaking, it's unlikely for me to find a straight man who doesn't want to have penetrative sex as part of his sex life. So for me personally that concern is fairly moot.
I mean this sincerely: how does it hurt you, to have me define my sex life differently than you define yours?
Actually it was someone else saying that my definition of sex was dishonest, not the other way around.
I commented that most people would consider someone describing masturbation as "sex" slightly dishonest by convention. *shrug* My point was that I don't see how the assumption of PIV (which people are contesting) is any more unfair than the assumption of partnered. Or is that not as common of an assumption as I thought?
Statistically speaking, it's unlikely for me to find a straight man who doesn't want to have penetrative sex as part of his sex life. So for me personally that concern is fairly moot.
I mean this sincerely: how does it hurt you, to have me define my sex life differently than you define yours?
1:22 PM
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
@seandr
You're picturing men and women as opposing soccer teams?
What a depressingly adversarial view of gender relations...
You're picturing men and women as opposing soccer teams?
What a depressingly adversarial view of gender relations...
1:20 PM
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
@240
Yes, I'm familiar with the term intersectionality as well as the fact that most feminists fail miserably at it. Much like anti-slut-shaming it's still more a buzzword than something that's actually practiced.
My best friend considers herself an intersectional feminist and as such understands why many women (especially the ones I mentioned above, and I do fall into a group that feminists are not inclusive of) reject the label itself, choosing words like "womanist" instead, for example.
She also respects my decision to do so, and so should other feminists. The onus isn't on excluded/stigmatized women, it's on women who identify as feminists to work on the inclusiveness of the movement. If you're doing that, then great. But I'm sorry, until feminism hits a critical mass of accepting women like me, I won't be waving their flag.
Yes, I'm familiar with the term intersectionality as well as the fact that most feminists fail miserably at it. Much like anti-slut-shaming it's still more a buzzword than something that's actually practiced.
My best friend considers herself an intersectional feminist and as such understands why many women (especially the ones I mentioned above, and I do fall into a group that feminists are not inclusive of) reject the label itself, choosing words like "womanist" instead, for example.
She also respects my decision to do so, and so should other feminists. The onus isn't on excluded/stigmatized women, it's on women who identify as feminists to work on the inclusiveness of the movement. If you're doing that, then great. But I'm sorry, until feminism hits a critical mass of accepting women like me, I won't be waving their flag.
3:53 AM
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
@sappho
"I certainly don't consider oral or manual sex as "sex" (for myself)"
"People can have their own ways of viewing their own sexuality."
"I understand that LITERALLY those things are sex. But my brain doesn't process them as the same as sex, my body doesn't experience them as the same as sex, so... I don't call them sex. "
"How someone perceives their own sexual experience isn't an entirely logical equation. It's deeply personal, and that's okay."
These are all things I've said in this thread. So how did you get that I wanted to define anyone's experiences but mine?
"I certainly don't consider oral or manual sex as "sex" (for myself)"
"People can have their own ways of viewing their own sexuality."
"I understand that LITERALLY those things are sex. But my brain doesn't process them as the same as sex, my body doesn't experience them as the same as sex, so... I don't call them sex. "
"How someone perceives their own sexual experience isn't an entirely logical equation. It's deeply personal, and that's okay."
These are all things I've said in this thread. So how did you get that I wanted to define anyone's experiences but mine?
12:13 PM yesterday
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
mydriasis commented on Savage Love.
Um.... Eirene did you just ignore my multiple posts on all the people feminists don't accept? I actually didn't mention married mothers as one of them.
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I just don't understand why it's so one-directional for you.
If someone views something I did as sex, and I didn't view it as sex, that doesn't bother me.
If I did something I consider sex, and someone else says they don't see that as sex, that doesn't bother me either.
I don't consider masturbation sex (for myself) but I don't consider it "invalidating" to me, if someone else does.
Why does what I do/not view as sex have the power to hurt other people who feel the opposite, but not the other way around?