The SPD is expected to come door-to-door after every violent crime in that shitty fucked up ghetto? If the residents want a better community they can learn how to pick up a phone and call the Police if they known anything.

@2 - Yes, the police are supposed to do that for murder investigations.

@2 - That is literally a police detective's job.

@2: Reading comprehension and spelling not your thing? Some residents did call the police. Maybe you don't know one of the meanings of "dispatch."

@2 - You're a horrible piece of shit.

Maybe Jonah Spangenthal-Lee can give us the SPD side of this story. But I suspect they would rather ignore it and hope it just goes away….

It's not a "no snitch code," it's cops ignoring this because black people.

@2 There's no neighborhood in Seattle that is a serious "ghetto" and yes - that is literally the job of a police officer is to interview possible witnesses.

The CD is not a 'shitty fucked up ghetto.' It's also not only a black neighborhood. The CD is home to many hardworking people of all colors. While I do get that many do not want to be involved and that there is a culture of 'snitches find themselves in ditches,' this is not representative of all black people either.

One thing is for certain, if you don't ask questions, you don't get answers. I am disappointed that SPD wasn't knocking on doors. I'm even more troubled at what appeared to be the 'put the question in the parking lot' approach while publicly stating that they'd talk to the person after the meeting not concluding with the promised conversation.

Flippant and under-concerned response to a murder of anyone is unforgiveable.

@8 "Keep your ignorance in North Seattle. The grownups are talking here."

I'll keep my low crime rate as well, and my community involvement, and my neighborhood that doesn't tolerate thugs running around. I'll keep the Police protection that having those high standards provides me and my neighbors.

You keep your violent thugs down there in south seattle, and tell yourself how grown-up tolerating that shit is. Yes, it's obviously the police, racism, and everything other than a lack of community standards that is responsible for that area being a fucked up ghetto.

I've spoken to the county police in my non-Seattle neighborhood several times about significantly more minor crimes.

@2, you're an appropriately numbered piece of shit I see. It appears you are also a coward and a troll in the wrong neighborhood. Please stay behind your keyboard, in your home, by all means, lest the world discovers what a piece of shit you are and can attach a face to the behavior.

It's not a "no snitch code," it's cops ignoring this because black people.

It is both. And they both reinforce the other. Decades of police ignoring black victims and neighborhoods has led to distrust of the police. That contributes to the no snitch thing. The lack of cooperation encourages the police to not bother with things they assume will be a waste of time. That failure by the police to engage reinforces the idea that you shouldn't cooperate with police.

But police should canvass and stuff anyways, even if it seems like a waste of time. Maybe after a generation or so of that it might start to make a difference.

@2 and 13 - right wing, racist, virulently anti-working class... You know, you would feel more at home in the former confederacy. Or on the Bundy compound. Fremont really isn't a good fit for you.

thank you for the story tanya.

i believe the police have reacted to the justice department sanctions by "foot dragging"... literally going slack "to show us".

reacting this way to MURDER? dangerous and heartbreaking.

we live on capitol hill near broadway and have been rebuffed and belittled repeatedly when approaching police on bikes and mobile officers responding to calls.

told to "call it in" and driving in the other direction when approached about crimes in progress or people in distress. (yes, i understand the call-ins help drive statistics to get more policing but... they are already THERE ... if they call it in it also counts toward trending reports)

refusing to respond to greetings in sidewalks.

there are MANY great cops in seattle and it is time for us to get back on track. looking forward to STRONG leadership with a healing of respect from police and community.

@17

An idiot hipster who's dumb enough to think that naming himself after the leader of the Khmer Rouge is humorously ironic is going to educate me on value system and political beliefs. Lovely.

Somehow I manage to own a home in a neighborhood that doesn't routinely feature gunfire and murders. Must be all that right wing, anti working class racism at work, nothing at all to do with community standards. Mmm hhhmmmm.

@2 son, you just got spanked. by many.

but by all means, keep up the keyboard warrior mystique and remember that your entry into the upper eschelon of respect is clearly marked by how many people reply to you. yep, that's a troll's paradise right there.

@20

So, I'd sure love to live in a neighborhood with those community standards you mention, but despite working hard all my life, I haven't got a lot of money. Can you suggest an affordable neighborhood in Seattle where I can enjoy some nice high community standards, too?

I've lived in 'good' neighborhoods and 'bad' neighborhoods, with all sorts of mixes of race and ethnicity. what I've found is that essentially the neighborhood gets the policing it demands. If you have an ingrained (and valid) distrust of the police, you're probably only going to see them in the case of bigger incidents. and if they learn that locals aren't going to be helpful then 'why bother canvasing beyond the immediate vicinity' (which it sounds like is the case here). I think we all know that cops aren't generally that helpful, friendly, or really interested in doing their jobs well. We also know that people who've been mistreated in the past are unlikely to cooperate. So this is what you get.

I live at the intersection of Vietnamese, Hispanic and Russian communities...none of whom have any tolerance for police presence.

Wasn't there just a story about the police not bothering to do their jobs the other day?

@20 - and yet I'm capable of not deriding everything south of the Ship Canal as that "shitty fucked up ghetto". I don't view everyone living south of the Ship Canal as untermenschen to be feared or imprisoned. I dont assume that everyone living south of the Ship Canal is a "thug" or some well armed super criminal. I don't assume that everyone living south of the Ship Canal lacks moral fiber and "community standards". No, Pol Pot don't play that.
You do.

Hah, the "shitty fucked up ghetto" from 20th to 28th, around Jackson, has had ~17 police reports re. actual violent crime since Jan 1st....

Versus 29 in downtown Ballard, and 20 in downtown Lake City (and in a much smaller area of the latter two). North Seattle indeed.

It is always funny to see anyone in Seattle talk about "ghettos" as if they exist there.

Looks like middle class housing to me.

If you see that as a ghetto, you have lived an extremely charmed, sheltered, and privileged life.

Don't feed the trolls.

@22 Any community in which a deep seated distrust of police isn't allowed to take root is a good start. There are a variety of reasons it can happen, none are flattering to the community.

@25 Still babbling your strawmen, and it only took you 2 posts to make it to Godwins law. Well done hipster. Now go shout some slogans while occupying something, it'll give you the sense of self worth your sub-average intellect never will.

@26 Yes, how surprising that a community which allows "Don't Snitch" to become part of its culture doesn't call the police to report crimes. Absolutely astounding.

@20th My spouse and I were badly outbid on small townhomes in your neighborhood. You either bought your home decades ago or in the 2008 market collapse, or you're very wealthy. Recognize your very good fortune and stop shitting on the rest of us.

@30 I bought a 'fixer'. It took me months to find one I could afford. I did all the work on it. Reusing materials instead of buying new, using sweat instead of rental tools, and saving money every way I could to this very day made it possible. Not everyone who owns a house is anywhere near wealthy.

The deals in ballard / wallingford / fremont / etc are there, if you're willing to be patient and have the ability (or willingness to learn) to compromise on a homes turnkey status. I earned my home with patience, budgeting, and sweat.

@2, @13 and @20 how's that north part of the Ave in your perfect little paradise? Not north enough for you? If you don't think "thugs" are running around Lake City Way you probably never leave your home/bunker if you even actually live in this city.

@32 So you're saying: If someone does not have the ability/time to become a fairly good self-employed contractor, or the money to work around it, their family deserves to live in what you so colorfully describe as a "shitty fucked up ghetto".

I'm sure you feel proud of what you were able to achieve with your home, but this ought to lead you to empathize *more* with average people working hard to have nice lives in other neighborhoods.

@34

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Ballard is nice and everything, but the idea that it is crime-free because of 'community standards' is wrong because it is not and never has been crime-free. Not before it was trendy. Not since.

Stolen vehicles, fights, break-ins, arsons, and murders happen in Ballard. There was even a bombing just off Market Street when I was a kid. Citizens have not stopped this with their righteous collective sense of goodness, their intolerance for crime, or their heady property values. Racism, wishful thinking, and low-level trolling probably won't work, either. Especially after the fact.

Since pie-in-the-sky happy-thoughts aren't going to stop or undo crime, no matter the neighborhood, it falls to the police to prevent or solve such cases. This requires diligence which SPD appears to have casually done away with here. Sad.

The people have obviously lost trust in the STD.

@36

You're mistaking Friday and Saturday night on Market for the rather large tracts of homes surrounding it 24/7. There is no culture of 'Snitches get put in ditches' there. The police get called. Crime gets reported. Information is shared.

Contrast that to areas which have embraced 'Snitches get stitches' as a part of their culture. Amazingly enough, gunshots and murders are more common. Who would have thought that thug friendly values would result in more thuggery. No one could possibly have predicted that shit.

After embracing 'Don't talk to the police' and 'fuck the police' as a neighborhood value, you want the cops to prevent and solve crime in such a neighborhood? Good luck with that. Hope that works out well for you.

@29- not every sentence containing a German word is a violation of Godwin's Law. Unless, of course, you paint Germany with the same broad brush you use to demean your fellow citizens in south Seattle.

@2 let me just get right to the name calling: You are an ignorant fuck and this community has handily called you out for it. Well done, this community.

Across the street from our last home, a couple hit and killed an unleashed dog that ran in front of their van. They stopped and were visibly upset that they had killed the dog. The dog's owner went into the street, yelling and trying to fight them. Then, he picked up his own dead dog and threw it at the couple, in clear view of his own distraught children and at least three neighbors who each, at that point, called the police. The police parked in front of my house, walked three doors down, and interviewed the couple and the dog owner before leaving. The write up in the paper the following day said there were no arrests because there were no witnesses.

It wasn't a murder but I'm pretty sure hitting someone with a dead dog is a crime. I've always wondered what that couple thought of me standing there on the porch, and my neighborhood in general, when they read that there were "no witnesses".

The 'no snitch' code is a common trait among African American and Latino neighborhoods.

It exists because the community sees police as just another group set to victimize them. And lets be totally honest here, if we are talking about the SEATTLE POLICE DEPARTMENT, they are right. The SPD IS just another violent group looking to harass, assault and maybe even kill members of the community.

Im not excusing the violence, but come on. You cant expect the community to work with law enforcement when the law enforcement has just as bad of a record with that community as the gangs and drug dealers themselves. Worst even, because the SPD has been pretty vicious towards anyone black or native in Seattle since the 1960s.

People, STOP FEEDING TROLLS! Especially racist trolls like #2. Look at all his previous comments. This person is just a run of the mill racist troll looking for attention.

Anyone who has the balls to claim ballard is safer/crime free because of 'community standards' either doesnt live there or is willfully blind.

Ballard actually has a good amount of crime. It has a burgeoning 'white power' skinhead scene, not to mention car break ins, assaults, burglaries and a well known heroine and coke underground culture.

The reason places like Ballard do not get on the radar for this is

1- It doesnt fit the "black neighborhoods are all dangerous because all n-words are subhuman criminals...vis a vie, central and beacon = ghetto, ballard and wallingford = nice

2- Police are underpolicing the area. Partially out of spite. Partially out of their well documented hate for African American communities. But mostly because the city leaders and the mayor take $ from developers who are building the shit out of ballard and wallingford, and having lots of cops there scares away the yuppies and hipsters who will buy those 1500 dollar a month studios and epodments.

@42, if someone ever hit and killed my dog, I doubt that I could possibly react in a reasonable manner. HIS DOG WAS JUST KILLED! He gets a pass on reacting to the people responsible. It would have been more to the point to say there were no arrests because the poor guy's dog was just killed and he was distraught? He was not the bad guy here.

I'm from Baltimore. Seattle has no ghettos.....

@38: You are making the same sweeping generalizations. There are rather large tracts of homes surrounding hot spots in South Seattle as well. Homes in which people just as nice and law abiding as the people in your neighborhood live.
Also the police werecalled in all of these crimes and in answer to your question why police should be trying to solve and prevent crime in South Seattle, or indeed any neighborhood, the answer is because it's their job.
They don't like their job? BooHoo. The motto is to Serve and Protect. Not to Serve and Protect Just the Pleasant and Cooperative and Screw the Rest, although that often seems to be the attitude.
It is fine as a police officer to be frustrated by the populace you've sworn to protect, but 'cha have to still protect them. Because again, that's the job.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices…

Map at the bottom is fairly instructive, if a bit upsetting to the narrative I'd prefer to believe.

Let me be the first to thank Tanya Mosley for a good article and an even better question. I live right smack-dab in the middle of this non-ghetto and would like to know why the cops continue to blow off these crimes, like it's not their problem.

It is our problem, anyone who lives in Puget Sound.

@43 - really? The police has "just as bad a record worth that community as the gangs and drug dealers themselves"? SPD has had one fatal shooting that was found by a jury to not be justified. For SPD's record to be worse, gang members and drug dealers would therefore have to have never killed a single person in the city of Seattle. Ever.

In other words, are you lying, or just supremely ignorant?

@51

Yes, the SPD does. You can sell that story to Rich O Neill pal.

How can you tell? Most African Americans in Seattle are not involved in drugs or gangs. But practically ALL African Americans who live, work or commute in Seattle have been victimized, harassed, or assaulted by the SPD at some point in their lives. I dont know an african american who lives or lived in Seattle that doesnt have a horror story involving the SPD, and thats including myself.

If you want to narrow down the comparison to the few incidents that the city/state actually prosecuted an officer, sure, you arent going to get much of an example. But thats more because the city and the DA insulate the PD whenever they get caught doing horrible shit, and the DA's and Muni attorneys offices have been shills for the department for years. The fact that 99% of police 'obstruction' charges get dismissed is a BIG hint as to the PD's relationship with the community. The whole damned department has been operating under a police culture that thinks "all blacks *and indians* are guilty of something, so they see themselves as 'protecting and serving' when they stop, harass, profile or assault African Americans in the city.

Was Ian burke ever charged? What about the officers in the Fed report showing that 20% of SPD interactions with the public involve use of force...including VICTIM RESPONSES?

The community sees the SPD for what it is, just another group of people looking to harass, assault and abuse them. Worst, the SPD are paid by the city to do it, and not only will they get away with it, but they conflate 'harassing/assaulting blacks minding their own business' with 'stopping crime'.

@44 Skinheads, heroin, and coke. Out of control. In Ballard. That's what you're saying? HAHAHAHAHAAAA... Thanks for the laugh, good one man.

@47 "There are rather large tracts of homes surrounding hotspots in South Seattle as well."

Hotspots like... public parks? At least Ballard has the 'hotspot excuse' in the form of a bunch of bars, restaurants, and venues within a few blocks of each other. You're saying that public parks in the CD are equivalent hotspots for equivalent mayhem? Hell, that ghetto is worse than I thought.

The CD doesn't want SPD, and won't cooperate with SPD. The SPD: giving the people what they want. If they want to get run the fuck over by thugs then why would the SPD object?

You don't like gangsters shooting your neighborhood up all the time? Might want to foster some good relations with the SPD then, and look at the culture in your community to see what portions of that culture are allowing violence and crime to thrive.

If Tonya Mosley wants to do something really valuable for the CD, let her lead the community in getting rid of the 'no snitch code'.

@52 -- Sure. In fact, the problems with the King County Prosecutor's office's handling of cases involving law enforcement officers are so rampant, and so horrific (such as not charging Ian Burke), that exactly zero people filed to run against Dan Satterberg. Who by the way is a Republican in an overwhelmingly Democratic county, and therefore ripe for the taking if he was actually doing what you claim.

Look, there are problems in the SPD. There needs to be reform in leadership and how they train their people. They need to have a culture of accountability and responsibility instead of doing stupid and improper things, and doing them repeatedly. But saying that they are no better than the gangs and drug dealers that are regularly killing people is complete horseshit.

@52

Do tell us about your experience. When was this? Did you file a complaint? Did you contact community leadership to form an organized response in order to demand accountability? Did you contact an attorney? Did you do anything?

Did anything actually even happen, or do you just like to use this crap as cultural currency?

@56

"Some of them even called dispatch themselves" some. even. mmmm hmmm.

"I know the “No Snitch Code” is real."

"a culture of mistrust when it comes to police within black communities, and it is deep-seated."

Did *you* read the article? And by the way, what the fuck are the police supposed to do, out a witness at a public meeting? Why would a frightened witness tell this lady they had talked to the cops?

At least you made your ill conceived argument in a lucid manner. Well written, poorly thought out. You should register an account, that track record makes you an above average slog forum poster.

@53: I notice you don't address my main point which is, if you will recall, that it is the job of the SPD to protect and serve the entire population of Seattle. Even if they are uncooperative, even if they are poor, even if they live in the South End.
The majority of the people in the South End are just like your neighbors and they deserve the same level of service from the SPD as you do.
Now, I can hear you, "Well they should get rid of their no snitch code!!!"

No.

The lack of cooperation on the part of the residents does not absolve the SPD of their obligation to serve and protect those residents. It is their job.
Failing to do a thorough canvas of the neighborhood was a dereliction of their duty.

This this and more this please The Stranger! Don't post a paragraph in the Gossip column, post actual articles like this. This is a great piece.

@53

You either have never lived there or are making this crap up. EVERYONE knows about the coke scene in Ballard, and yes, there are racist punks there as well. Nice try though. Why dont you go troll the foxnfriends forum? Or maybe stormfront? You would feel more at home there.

@52

Satterburgs off year election was relatively low key. The liberals did not think it was an important position (it doesnt have the public face that other positions do) and, in Seattle tradition, they dont have a problem with abusing minorities so long as they get left alone. That goes for the anti-progressive King County Dem mainstream as well. If you are looking for a defense of the democratic mainstreams mollycoddling corruption and racism from Police departments, you wont find it with me. Kerlikowske (or better, Ray Kelly) was a good example of how even the Obama admin is willing to turn the other cheek to it. The progressives have railed against him, however.

As for reform, there does not need to be a reform in leadership. Changing leaders has shown to have zero effect on the SPD culture. They need a clean house, and only a strong mayor, DA, city attorney could push that through. The SPD is too broken for any one leader to fix. Hence the common responses from McGinn, Nickels, Murray (and through them Diaz, Bailey and Mr pro-drug war Kerlikowske himself). I dont see that the new person is capable of doing that. From what we know about how Murray has worked the issue, its doubtful she was even hired to actually do anything about it aside from giving the issue a new coat of paint.

@55 [same commenter]

Lets see, which time was it? Could it be the time I watched an SPD officer kick the shit out of a homeless (native?) man (who, though screaming, was not resisting further than covering his face) near safeco after a seahawks game? Or it could be when I had to watch a friend from graduate school (no criminal record by the way) stopped at gun point, forced to lay on the floor while officers searched him, then tried to talk nice once they found his college ID as if they werent cought obviously profiling. Hes African American by the way. OR it could be the literal dozens of times Ive been followed by the SPD when driving through downtown or capital hill or central. Extra points to the time when I gave an officer a headshake after their customary "we followed him to see if we could get an excuse to pull him over", only to come back to my car at the end of the day and notice a half filled out parking ticket that claimed I was in a no parking zone (I parked under the parking sign). The municipal judge was as befuddled as I was when she threw it out.

Did I file a complaint? No. I was warned not to, and after the OPA director Olsen incident where it was revealed that the department and the OPA offices were retaliating against minorities who filed official complaints, it may be for the better.

@61 Ahahahhahaa Thanks again :D

Yes I can see warring tribes of skinhead coke dealers having a machine gun battle from my window now that you've pointed it out. I expect to be hit up for crack and heroin at least 8 times on my way down to market. Holy crap, how could I have missed what everyone knows, that ballard is a skinhead infested warzone with rampant drug crime. AHAHAHAAHAA.

I'm not much for racist or right wing forums. Thanks for attempting to welcome me into your other communities, but no thanks.

@61 (same comment)

So you embrace the 'No snitch code'. You don't want to have anything to do with the SPD.

Fair enough, seems like there are some communities that shares your values in south seattle. I'm sure that you've come up with an alternate policing solution, so this community won't suffer any of the many potential problems adopting such values presents.

@38 Maybe I just know the neighborhood better than you. I lived in Ballard from 1987 through 2007. I still have family and friends there. I visit at least once a week.

I attended three schools there. At my middle school (admittedly north of Ballard, but not enough for the local news to call it anything else), a teacher was shot and killed (for supposedly sexually molesting his murderer, among others). A year before I attended Ballard High, a girl was shot and killed outside its doors. While I was there, the school had the highest rate of reported violence in Seattle's public schools. I remember one of the kids I recruited to the wrestling team being expelled and arrested after sending another student to the hospital because of some spilled coffee. I also remember how, a year after my graduation several underclassmen I knew died tragically in an accident caused by their own drunkenness, without anyone blaming a culture of permissiveness or lawlessness.

Those were reported crimes. But when there were several incidents of "alleged" assault and rape involving the white stars of the very successful BHS basketball team, the school's administration went out of its way to ensure no police got involved, no student reporting was done, and nothing happened to the "alleged" culprits. When a member of the football team got his ass kicked outside of school because of untrue and damaging rumors, no one there witnessed a thing.

When there were strings of arsons in Ballard (and I can recall three seperate sprees over the years), those didn't happen on Ballard Avenue on a Saturday night. When my house in Ballard was burglarized (twice, the second time despite an alarm system), I lived ten blocks from Market street. When my parents' car was stolen and totalled, it was parked approximately a mile from any trendy Ballard bars. When my parents' condo was broken into last month, it was on a weekday, in the middle of the day. When my friend's car window was smashed recently, it was a Tuesday, on a quiet side-street.

So, yeah, perhaps you're confused about just which one of knows what. Maybe you're just an ignorant, sheltered racist.

@64 or maybe you like to use anecdotal smokescreens. Lets have a quick look at a source of non-anecdotal information which was linked to earlier.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices…

Hmmm. Interestingly enough, south seattle is blood red. So much for your bullshit.

Ok... this is what I have to say about this mess:
KITTENS! ADORABLE, FLUFFY, BIG BLUE AND GREEN EYED KITTENS! AND BABY UNICORNS THAT CRAP RAINBOW ICE CREAM FUDGE! AMAZING HORSE STRAWBERRY LEMONADE PISS!
That's all. I'm bored now, see ya never..

Ok... this is what I have to say about this mess:
KITTENS! ADORABLE, FLUFFY, BIG BLUE AND GREEN EYED KITTENS! AND BABY UNICORNS THAT CRAP RAINBOW ICE CREAM FUDGE! AMAZING HORSE STRAWBERRY LEMONADE PISS!
That's all. I'm bored now, see ya never!

Dang it, double posted.. how do I remove a post from here??

Still waiting for you to admit that it is the duty of SPD to protect and serve the entire Seattle community equally regardless of neighborhood, or attitude of its residents.....
Again, most of the people who live in South Seattle are just like the people who live in Ballard i.e. law abiding, but even those who are not are entitled to have their murders thoroughly investigated.
Even if the victim is a "thug" that does not relieve SPD of their duty.

You said it, and what we tax payers pay them for.

@69

Still waiting for you to tell me how they can do that when the willingness of the public to assist them is not equal between neighborhoods.

Even the author admitted in the article that this 'no snitch code' is in fact extant in the area.

Hire 500 times more officers? London style surveillance? What is your suggestion for the solving of crimes which an officer did not witness in an area whose residents will not cooperate with police investigations?

Eagerly awaiting your ideas which will absolve responsibility from the members of a community who allow these values to become normative.

... meant to say THAT's what we tax payers pay them for.. Dang it, this blog seriously needs an edit feature for posted comments.

Hmmm interesting to see such comments coming from someone using the cover of a "Speed Fisting" magazine as their mugshot.

... assuming that this refers to the act of sticking one's fist into.. you get the picture..

London style surveillance would actually be the death of such crimes as long as the lenses stay out of people's homes and windows.

Dang it.. feeling another hilarious tourettes attack coming on... can't... restrain myself...
ADORABLE PUPPIES LICKING PEANUT BUTTER OFF MY FACE!!
Ugh... my life is a rhubarb..

@65 Focusing on one statistic (specifically, firearm homicide rates) to contrast two areas is fine if that's all the conversation is about. But it isn't, partly becauae we are talking about crime. There are, after all, other sorts of murder than those committed with a gun, and more crimes than just murder. But also because that stat isn't relevant to what I have been saying.

My position is that Ballard is not some crime-free utopia; that crimes of all sorts occur everywhere (as does under-reporting), even in parts of Ballard blocks away from bars and eateries, even on weekdays, even if people there are nice, white, and willing to talk to police; and that police are legally and ethically tasked with preventing, handling, and solving such issues, partly because thinking positively about oneself and one's neighborhood (or negatively about criminals, brown and black people, and other neighborhoods) won't stop crime from happening or put culprits in jail.

If the murder-by-firearm rate is higher in Southpark or the CD than in Ballard or Crownhill, that fails to address my points.

Also, I offered a statistic to back up my first and second hand knowledge of Ballard High School: From the mid through late 90s, BHS had the highest incidence of reported violence in the Seattle public school system, despite covering up several serious crimes by its students.

TC, your very first post you implied that no one had called the police regarding the crimes described in the article.
False.
You also implied that SPD was under no obligation to investigate crime in South Seattle due to what you perceive to be the nature of the neighborhood, and the attitude of its residents (snitch culture).
Also false.
That your position is rooted in racism is fairly apparent from your choice of language through out this thread.
You can argue til the cows come home over which neighborhood is more pleasant, but that is beside the point, and also largely a matter of opinion.

@71: They can, and should, when conducting a murder investigation do a thorough canvas of the neighborhood, which in this case they did not. They may not.
That is the job. That people may not cooperate is beside the point. It is still their job to serve and protect all of the people of Seattle, even if they make it difficult to do so.

@77 and @78

Both of you would like to make this about racism, so that you can cease to thoughtfully consider the community impact of community values. You use accusations of racism as a bludgeon, and as a kind of cultural currency.

It's an unattractive habit, much like picking your nose in public. It's gross. Please knock it off.

Realize that any community is responsible for the impact of the cultural norms they have embraced.

Allowing the 'no snitch code' to become normative has damaged these communities. It would damage *any* community.

Wholesale decrying of the SPD makes a nice slogan, and again there is a cultural currency aspect. Much the same as calling racism every time someone doesn't agree with you, it's damaged your ability to examine social problems.

I like to be the Devil's Advocate. Here goes... What if the police know who did it but don't know where this person is? If this person is a flight risk, telling the public they have no leads could keep this person from running. Maybe that's why they don't bother to knock on all the doors. They don't need to.

That said, you would think they would want as much evidence and as many witness statements as possible to convict the person when/if they catch them. So, it does seem lazy of SPD that no one who lives on the street where the murder occurred was interviewed. Or were they? Just because they told a reporter they didn't talk to the cops doesn't mean that's the truth. They may be genuinely afraid of ending up in a ditch and telling a reporter that they talked to the cops might not be smart on their part. Maybe this is less about the mistrust of cops and more about reporters having a bad reputation.

@80: I am doing neither. SPD has a job to do, and one of the tools in their tool box is being under used. They have encountered a lack of cooperation in the past and have thus stopped trying.
If they had done a more thorough investigation and attempted to interview local residents they would no doubt have encountered resistance, but they also would have possibly gotten valuable information.
It is their job to investigate. They did not.
That's not picking on SPD. That's just a fact.
Your own language describing South Seattle and the people who live there:

Shitty fucked up ghetto
Thugs
Routinely feature gunfire and murder
Thug friendly

And falsely asserting that these crimes were not reported, paint you in a less than minority friendly light.

I am all for examining social problems, as is the author of this article.
Calling people thugs who live in a fucked up ghetto is not examining social problems. It's racist.

@80 As you are likely aware, my argument is not about your racism, which is clear and noteworthy (hence my remarking upon it), but about the necessities of police-as-occupation and for police to do their jobs diligently, regardless of the neighborhood. Your unwillingness to engage that argument directly marks you as a troll.

It's okay. I like trolls. They are fun to kick around rhetorically. Please offer more non-responses.

@83 Use the entire relevant quote please. Cherry picking words is a piss poor way to debate.

I am well traveled, and have discovered overwhelmingly latino, white, and black neighborhoods that I find to be shitty, fucked up ghettos. My being judgemental is on display, but it's *your* racial bias hanging out.

@84 You currently have no argument to engage. Let me know when you develop a clear thesis.

@83 AND @84

How is it that you two are so well informed about the investigation? Have you considered that the SPD may not have needed to canvas? Have you mapped out the authors address against that of the crime scene, to see if it's within a reasonable or expected canvas area? How exactly are you so privy to the inner workings of an ongoing SPD murder investigation?

No, you both like to use disparaging comments about racism, and assume facts to fit your bias. It doesn't make you good liberals, it just makes your position seem foolish.

+@53
thanks for confirming yourself as a far right wing troll with no connection to ballard rather than a person speaking from any sort of awarenesas.

Again, maybe Foxnfriends or Oreillyforums or even stormfront would be a good fit for you. You obviously dont live anywhere near Seattle but are aware of every racist stereotype from Iassaquah to Hayden Lake.

@86

As previously stated - I'm sure you fit in well at those forums, but I'm not much for racist or right wing groups. Thanks for attempting to welcome me into your other communities, but no thanks.

Feel free to go through my posts and point out the racism. All you will find is plenty of your own bias projected at me.

From the reporting I have seen, the SPD has not announced any suspects, much less arrests in the case in question. Often, if they have suspects or persons of interest they would like to chat with, they will announce it to show progress and responsiveness or to obtain help in finding said individuals. So, they probably do not yet have any suspects, details about whom they might have obtained by canvassing--which this report makes clear they either did not do, or did very little of.

Because crimes can occur anywhere, because criminals need not conduct crimes in their own neighborhoods, because we shouldn't be afraid to travel within the city, because anybody might find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time, and because we are all impacted by such matters, all people of the city should insist on thorough, professional, and proper policing throughout the city. Police being too lazy, unmotivated, uninterested, or disheartened to ask potential and actual witnesses for help in a murder investigation should never be acceptable, no matter the place the crime takes place or who it happens to. Excuses like an assumed lack of response are no excuse at all. That some people will or may not help is true in any neighborhood. Police should police anyway.

Even if they have or will have suspects, it is possible they may have missed information which would help in charging and convicting (or exonerating) said suspects. Which is to say, in this particular case, it is difficult imagine some reason why the police might not have needed to ask potential witnesses about the shooting, and easy to think of reasons why they should have been more thorough. Their apparent reticence to address this issue does not speak well for them.

If we take this article at face value, as TCL scenes happy to do selectively, then its headline seems appropriate, while TCL's response appears unjustified.

@85: I didn't use those words, you did. If you didn't wish to make that impression then you should perhaps have chosen language less racially loaded and hyperbolic to describe the neighborhood and it's residents. And I must say I am dubious as to your claim of being well travelled if you consider South Seattle a shitty fucked up ghetto. You behave as though it's Fort Apache the Bronx. But maybe you are just overly sensitive.

As to your question, we all in this thread are commenting on the information provided in the article. Including you. Let's not start wildly speculating shall we?
You're so emotional! Try sticking to the information we have, and not assume facts to fit your bias.

The article states that police said they had gone door to door, and according to the residents of the neighborhood, including two women within sight of the crime scene, who wanted to make a statement, they had not.
This is the information we have.

"you should perhaps have chosen language less racially loaded"

OK lissa. You're a racist. Lets examine. Your list of my words -

Shitty fucked up ghetto
Thugs
Routinely feature gunfire and murder
Thug friendly

Context - "my neighborhood that doesn't tolerate thugs running around."
Thug. That conjures up an image of a black person for you Lissa? Thug is ethnic neutral. You're a racist.

Context - "a neighborhood that doesn't routinely feature gunfire and murders."
Routinely feature gunfire and murder. As already demonstrated, south seattle has the highest incidence of such in the area, by a wide margin. I have never made any reference to neighborhood ethnic demographics. Did you picture the people firing guns and murdering as minorities? You're a racist Lissa.

Context - "Who would have thought that thug friendly values would result in more thuggery."
Again, you see minorities when that is said? You're a racist Lissa.

You're a racist lissa, and I wish you would quit projecting your racism onto me.

Ahhh! and I forgot to address 'shitty fucked up ghetto' in that post. I already have anyways, scroll up. If you feel that only black people can populate ghettos, you're a racist lissa.

'You noticed my use of racial whistles, my racist overtones and undertones, and appropriation of racist tropes? You are a racist.' Very convincing.

But I thought you found such accusations to be disgusting, TCL. Is this your way of admitting your arguments are aesthetically akin to picking your nose in public? How touching and clever. Really, I'm moved.

"racial whistles, my racist overtones and undertones, and appropriation of racist tropes"

Do elaborate, please.

Again - if you pictured an ethnicity when I said thug, you are a racist Post Mortem. That is your problem, not mine.

TCL, race is not merely implicit in the context of this article and discussion about it. It is very much in the foreground. The article we are reacting to doesn't just feature people with clearly non-European names from a largely black neighborhood being interviewed by a black woman about a crime involving black people. It centers on police action and inaction involving 'young people of color killing eachother' in 'black communities'.

This is the context under which you are decrying whole neighborhoods and their alien culture. Even ignoring the broader social and historical context of racism that you are taking your stance and terms from, your position and tone are clearly racist.

I don't have to make assumptions about what you mean or take responsibility for making such clear inferences, because the immediate and broader contexts have all but done the work for me. Your intent and views are clear to everyone here, as the general response shows.

But I still think it's cute that you're willing to make sad and specious arguments you yourself declare 'gross' to justify yourself. Keep it up. You're really making progress.

@91: Ah. The I Am Rubber, You Are Glue Gambit.
As I said, you certainly are emotional. Not terribly logical, or self aware, but ya know, what evs.
Any hoo, to recap, You seem to think that the SPD should pick and chose whom they serve and protect based on........reasons. Totally not racist reasons!
I disagree. I believe that SPD swore to serve and protect all the citizens of Seattle, even the South End. Because it is their, you know, job.
It's pretty simple.

@95 That boils down to - "Expecting communities to choose wisely when developing community standards is racist because you apply that standard to communities without regard to ethnic makeup".

Sure. OK. Whatever you say there. You sell that to whoever you can. Your thesis seems to be that a minority community can not be expected to make such choices wisely, and/or can not be expected to deal with the consequences. You're a racist.

@96 I agree, it is pretty simple. You're a racist. I see you have abandoned efforts to paint me as a racist using anything I have said, because you found no evidence of such. It's easier to confront the supposed racism of others than it is to confront the racism inside yourself lissa. Thugs and murders = black people for you, racist.

You haven't answered me by the way - How was my statement about thugs and thuggery racist? How could you have possibly seen those statements as racist unless the word conjured images of minorities for *you*?

No, TCL, it boils down to 'your tone and terminology are racist, as is your otherwise inane argument and its implications (i.e. black people and neighborhoods shouldn't be protected by police).' Meanwhile, your position has been repeatedly reputed (even ignoring its inherent racism) with little defense beyond repetition and a roundabout acknowledgement of ugliness. But you're clearly winning.

*repudiated

All the argument has been from the beginning TC is that you think SPD shouldn't have to serve and protect the South End and the rest of us understand that SPD must do so, just as it must serve and protect the rest of Seattle.
You've been hissing and flailing and projecting for 99 posts, but that is what it boils down to.