Hey, can I go into these schools and talk to kids about atheism? i like dodgeball as much as any fundie.

this is just horrible. not only are they trying to brainwash these kids into some obscure religion, they're doing so in a public school setting and keeping it a secret from the parents!

these kids are 11 years old! If any religion is that desperate, there's definitely something wrong there.

do it, bookworm.

Creepy! Bribing kids with candy and soliciting them on Myspace and with text messages. Isn't there a reason we tell kids to watch out for strangers with candy? If they need to bribe you to go with them, you don't know them and they can potentially harm you.

I am a graduate of Marysville Pilchuck High School, and I know of a few friends who are members of Turning Point Church. Thinking back to my senior year in 2007 I remember there being these out of place 24 to 25 year old youth leaders roaming around the lunch room and "hanging out" with students. I never really understood who they were or what their motives were but they always seemed to give me the creeps. I had no idea that these people were being allowed at the middle schools, and I find that kind of innapropiate. They also kind of gave me the same intruding feeling as the army recruiters on campus, but in a more secretive subtle way.

Oh my goodness. I know this church pretty well, and ITS CRAZY. I grew up in Marysville, and when I was in middle school and early high school, several of my very close friends (including the boy I dated for 6 years) went to this church. At this time it was really small, but they were always recruiting, especially kids. I went to the youth group once with my boyfriend, and it took me forever to get these people off my back about converting (thinking back, I don't think I DID get them off my back. I moved.) even though i made it VERY CLEAR that I was Catholic, staying that way and never comign back.
As time went on, my friends slowly started dropping out because of mysterous changes in faculty and finance that would not be explained to them other than "Thats what the Elders decided".... and I never really figured out what the hell "the elders" were by the way. Anyway, the church grew, and it became obvious that, THAT was their main goal... not worshiping or doing good works or anything else, but recruiting new members. And it had this way of trying to make your whole life about the church. Oh yeah. And pastor Mike makes a ton of money. Go figure.

I also know several families who where basically broken up over Turning point, where parents were encouraged to divorce if the partner who attended would not convert their spouse.

I've been out of Marysville for years now, and it makes me sad and worried that this church is still around town....

Most of these Turning Point Church people are probably homosexuals. How many of the recruits are boys? Very slimy.

Just because an adult goes to a church does not make them safe. Pedophile priests anyone. As a mom, I would call the police and file a report that these adult are stalking/attempting to kidnap my child. No adult can offer my child a ride without my consent. Turning Point church is not concerned with decent Christian conduct. They want to aggressively recuit children and play 'victim' when a parent asserts there basic rights. I hope ACLU gives the tools to parents to fight back. What is my right as a parent? Can I file a restraining order against all members of Turning Point? Can I cite them for no trespass? What damage are they allowed to commit before these rights can be enforced?
Shame on the Marysville School District.

Kip-
What does being homosexual have to do with anything? The people in the church may be slimy, but that has nothing to do with their sexuality.

So you've got retirees, Tulalip Tribe members, and youth leaders from Turning Point Church volunteering at Totem Middle School to reverse chronic "classroom disruptions"???

What the hell is going on at that school? Some kind of in-town "Lord of the Flies" scene?

Kristi-
When I called the police, the officer I talked to was generally concerned, but said that legally there hands were tied. Your question "What is my right as a parent?" is a very important one, that no one can seem to answer. I have questioned the school district as to why I do not have to be notified when a religious group comes to have private conversations with my kid, and why that was allowed to happen in the first place, and have gotten pretty vague responses.

Bookworm-
According to the district, they cannot discriminate against any group that wants to come in, which is why they "have" to let Turning Point be there. So I would think if thats the law, an athiest group should be ok. Something tells me though that if an athiest or say muslim group wanted to work with the kids it wouldnt happen. But then again, those groups dont PAY THE MARYSVILLE SCHOOL DISTRICT TO USE THEIR FACILITIES, like Turning Point does.

The other night after I read the message sent to my daughter, I tracked down Katie, the person who sent it to her. I couldn't find her in the church so I asked a staff member if he could find her for me. He then escorted me outside and across the parking lot into a small building in a dark alley which is kept locked. Inside is an office, and an eery room with lots of lights and photo equipment. We exchanged many words. I was dumbfounded at the sheer lack of common sense. These people are so fanatic about their group that they justify all the crazy ass shit they do. They basically said it doesn't matter what they have to do to get the kids there, as long as they get them there.

Beyond the creepy solicitations of kids outside of school, I know for a fact that at least this Katie person has been pushing her religious talk AT THE SCHOOL, which is an obvious violation of the law which calls for separation of church and state.

The more I learn about Turning Point Church the more disturbing this becomes. Their preoccupation with recruiting, and dangerous ways of going about it, is a red flag to begin with. But it goes so much deeper. Everything I hear about this group is synonymous with your text book characteristics of a cult.

And now hearing from the community and seeing how long this has been going on, I find it hard to believe that the schools were unaware. That leads me to believe that schools either are deliberately participating with the church or are just allowing them to get away with it because of the fact that Turning Point pays them to use the facilities.

IF ANYONE OUT THERE WANTS TO GO TO YOUTH GROUP, I KNOW SOMEONE WHO WILL GIVE YOU A RIDE.
HER NAME IS KATIE.
THIS IS HER MYSPACE:
http://www.myspace.com/citwit
LIKE I SAID, SHE WILL HOOK YOU UP WITH A RIDE.
SHE MIGHT EVEN GIVE YOU SOME FREE ESPRESSO, BUT YOU HAVE TO SAY YOU LOVE JESUS FIRST.
SERIOUSLY, YOU SHOULD CONTACT HER, THERE WILL BE SUPER RAD GAMES AND ACTIVITIES.

AGAIN HER NAME IS KATIE.
SHE WANTS TO TAKE YOU TO YOUTH GROUP.
http://www.myspace.com/citwit

Geez, Kip, you have a problem w/ homosexuals & you're reading The Stranger??? Heck, you're even commenting on its articles! Can we say cognitive dis-connect?

This is worse than military recruiter's....

If children actually NEED adult "friends" to be present during lunch times, why aren't the actual parents of these kids taking turns as Playground Parents, or something? Seems really creepy for church folks to come infiltrating a kid zone, for any reason.

Youth groups shouldn't be allowed to operate inside school hours or grounds. Organize a meeting, send out invitations, but do not operate on school grounds or during school hours. Organizing a meeting is just like saying "Hey, want to meet up later??" No big deal. The school is allowed to hold a bible on it's library shelves, no problem. But they cannot point it out or rpeach it ot teach it or tell students to check it out. For reference it's completely legal and ok with me. I have very strong views on parenting and school. I'm agnostic, a bible on the shelf is just another book. But to allow youth group leaders to school from church to watch kids is lame ass BS! Shouldn't happen. As for the adults from this youth group inviting kids to their houses or churches without the parents' knowledge ro f'ing permission, that's completely illegal. I guarantee it. I used to work for the YMCA, no adult was ever allowed to be alone with any one kid, whether they were the same sex or not. There are reasons for this, statistics. Statistics are there for a reason, shit happens. Don't argue the stats, it's true. Also, one last thing, this chruch is NOT christian, it IS a cult. How the hell can a pastor tell his congregation "Ladies, the answers to yoru troubles is sex and sleep?" I'm agnostic once again, and that comment from a pastors mouth is f'ing disgusting!! Talk about human being human! That is not anything I've ever read in teh f'ing bible. yes, I've read the bible, I wanted to know what kind of evil was inside it. There wasn't as much as I thought though, mostly fairy tales and myths, folklore and stories. The only REAL fact in the bible, Jesus Christ was a REAL man, he walked, talked, breathed the same air, slept pissed and shat twice a day! It's also true that he died, brutally, for political reasons. The rest is a story. The bible is the true story that is "Based on True Events" Not written OF true events. That is all.

Actually, Jack S., outside the Bible there is no record of anyone resembling Yeshua ben Joseph, nor anything at all of the many incidents described in the gospels.

Now, the Romans were a very literate culture, and they kept a lot of political & governmental records. Yes, some of it is lost, but there is quite a lot that remains, and throughout all of that... nothing whatsoever to back up anything in the Gospels.

Another interesting thing, Israel has the greatest amount of archaeological digs per sq. mile than any other place on the planet. If there were records, they would have found them. And what HAVE they found? Nothing about the Hebrew people before Solomon. No Moses, no wandering peoples, no Temple in Jerusalem until after the Babylonian captivity, none of that. There are two camps in academia-- the ones who say that David never existed, and those who say that if he did, he was a hilltop chieftain/goatherd.

So the Bible ain't even BASED on true events. About 70% made-up, 25% distortions & maybe about 5% accurate.

I'll say that I've been burned by the Marysville school system (I graduated in 2004: the year of the 49-day strike), but this is just ridiculous. I am an educated, conscious, and resolute atheist. If I were still going to MP, and they tried to pull this on me, they'd probably get an earfull about the redeeming power of science.

Anyway, the point is that Marysville is in this midst of an academic apocalypse, and it has been since about 2002. Get out. GET OUT NOW.

beans rice and Jesus Christ

I attended MP and graduated in 05. I know these kids and while I don't regularly attend their church I've been there before. It is just as any other church is. All youth groups recruit. There is absolutely nothing wrong here. As far as the comment Pastor Mike made, you should probably hear it in context before you go on and on about it. It isn't a cult. And those adult youth leaders are nothing but positive role models for those children.

Also, Turning Point pays the school distric to use their facilities because their church isn't large enough to house the entire congregation on Sundays. It's common for churches to do this. When I went to Cedarcrest their was a church that used the cafeteria Sundy mornings. No biggy.

I want to know what the other 4 schools are so I can alert my neighbors.

I am a product of Marysville schools (Totem used to be Marysville Junior High). I think the creep factor would be taken out of this whole thing if parents were aware of who was monitoring their children. I think it is wonderful to have the extra volunteers at the schools (c'mon parents, I certainly didn't see a whole lot of YOU around), especially given the fact that the Marysville School District is desperately floundering for money (seriously considering closing down an elementary school that serves the Totem area to save $400,000) and free help is awesome. However, anyone accessing children at a public school should have a police background check and there should be strict rules to follow (having known volunteers from Western Washington University in various Whatcom schools, this is the drill they follow up there). The solution: transparency, communication with parents and students, and a strict protocol.

who cares. this is retarded. i could think of a million things more alarming than this. like china. but youre worried about some church in marysville? cmon. lets be serious.

This is so wrong. I'm all for having extra adult supervision on campus. However adult supervision is completely different then these people trying to corrupt and recruit kids. Yes i mean corrupt and recruit. Some of us find Church very evil and i would never want a child subjected to such disturbed people. For you church goers who are going to back lash to me, would you be ok if there were a bunch of gay boys down there on campus "just wanting to hang out" and telling your 11 yo how cool they are and answering questions about being gay? I didnt think so. Keep your religion out of the public arena. If these kids want to learn about your sickness, perversion, religion, whatever you wanna call it, they'll seek you out. Quit preying on our children.

Very interesting......seems all these posts are only negative. I'm concerned that the Stranger has decided to post only the negative ones. Every post I have read has a religous mindset to it. And I'm sorry that TPCWOC has to take the brunt of these outrageous claims of "cult" behavior. I'm certain it's mostly due to fear and ingnorance. I am a believer in Christ and would be VERY happy if someone would speak to my children about Him and of His love. To catagorically identify Christ centered truth to Athiests is appalling and any parent who wants to make those claims should be looked at for sensationalizing this situation. It sounds to me that this is much ado about nothing....get over it and God Bless you!!!

I don't want to burst anyone's bubble but the activities of the particular church are not uncommon at all in the Northwest. Groups like Young Life, YWAM and such, have been in our schools since the 70s; and convening meetings with kids at all costs.

The unfortunate reality is that what seems like such clear violations to most people, this conflict will be perceived simply as a 'demonic attack' on the church. Until religious fundamentalists allow their perceptions to reflect reality, we will continue to see basic rights disregarded in the name of Christ.

Another interesting part of this story, as mentioned above, is the money being provided to the school district by these religious institutions.

Why is anyone other than staff, students or parents allowed on school property during the school day? When I was in school there was never anyone allowed on school property without permission ever. I went to a private school though, so maybe I don't understand the public property aspect of it. This is a safety issue in my opinion.

I forwarded this article to alot of people representing all walks of life. One particular person, who is a pastor in an evangelical church wrote this response:

"I think that any outside group - church, military, other non-profit, or any other should have to be approved by an anonymous parent vote first - it's the only way to keep covert operations out of the school. I've NEVER been a fan of going to the schools to hang out with the students over lunch. I think it's different to show up at a public event like a ball game or arts performance - but showing up at lunch with a covert mission is just not cool. Obviously, I'm all about giving kids a chance to find out who Jesus is, but if I'm confident about who Jesus is, I don't need to se covert methods to do it."

Just another viewpoint, one I disagree with but worth mentioning.

Ok. . . i went to this church for 5+ years, and even tho i don't attend there any longer I do have relationships with a lot of the people going on campus and working in the youth programs etc. . . Yes saying that they don't have to tell parents about rides is wrong, parents should be fully in the know of what is going on with their children, But don't be closed minded about something you don't know anything about. The people there got me through some very tough things in my life. And what Masten said about People being scared of something they don't know is very true. Think about it. . . the first time you drive is pretty scary, what about trying some new crazy food, its scary. I hold nothing against the church or any of the people there, So please before you read what some biased person wrote about a church and people they DONT know do some reasearch for yourself, it'll do you some good

Oh and to 'oh no Marysville', get your facts straight, he doesn't make a ton of money him and his wife have other businesses you probably know nothing about.

Rianne Olver
~ you are a horrible person for what you did to Katie, i can't believe that a grown person would be so childish as to perform a stunt like that. Horrible horrible chice on your part, shows the maturity of a 5 year old. If i was your kid i would have run away a long time ago.

Good one, D. I've always said that Christians aren't happy unless they're feeling persecuted. How else to justify the everyday domination, prejudice, scorn and hatred they dump on anyone who disagrees w/ them? And yes, that includes fellow Christians from different denominations.

"Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven," said the Protestant as he gunned down the unarmed Catholics...

I can never seem to make up my mind as to wether I'm conservative or liberal. Every time I feel like I'm leaning one way or another, someone in that camp manages to piss me off. Then, I stumble on this page, and everyone seems to be pissing me off.

Moderation, guys.

On the one hand, college kids hanging out with middle school kids is questionable, and the school probably shouldn't encourage it, but equating that to a cult? Bah...

The anti Jesus folks are obviously having a field day with this, but their issue is Jesus, and not the kids.

And the homophobes? I'm not even gonna touch that one...

Devil's Advocate:

Please, if this were any other group of people (Buddhists, Muslims, Boys and Girls Club, Peta, Shriners, etc), this story would not be nearly as fascinating to the clearly biased journalist and Stranger readers. And I use the term "journalist" loosely. If it was anyone else doing what this church is doing, you would call it a mentoring program, see it as an act of community outreach, and commend them on caring enough about these kids to buy them a cup of coffee. You only find this creepy and strange because you don't agree with the vehicle (Christianity) that this outreach/kindness is being delivered in.

Wow. What a terrible and traumatic experience it would have been for someone other than my family to demonstrate filial love towards me when I was 13. Where were these crazy lunactics a few years ago when I needed that? Come on, people. Get over your prejudices and pre-recorded arguements. Or start actually caring about someone other than yourself and go sign up as a Big Brother/Sister in order to thwart the spread of this so-called evil. Every cause needs an opposition, right? Either way, take at least 5 minutes out of your day to a) love someone other than yourself and b) read something other than the Stranger. I highly recommend some tabloids. At least those are clearly labeled as crap.

Bottom line: kids need mentors. If you don't like these ones, do it yourself. Unless you're a convict/pervert/communist, then please stay home.

Nonsense, Ms. Ron Burgundy.

You have it exactly backwards: at Totem Middle School, outreach/kindness is the vehicle Christianity is being delivered in.

Tell you what. Turning Point Church can mentor kids at the school if us atheists can mentor kids at your church. Deal?

Agreed Fire Aim Ready. Thats the whole issue is the method of delivery. Of course children need mentors, and adult inspiration, and people to look up to. The issue is though that these christian people, whether you deem it a cult or not have prejudices and ways of thinking that they use to corrupt the youth. And that is the unacceptable part.

My son goes to Totem Middle school. He's not Tribal. He tell me the tribal kids start most of the fights. We've been in the classroom and the kids ignore the teachers.. It's bizarre! They had that big student walkout last year at totem also. My son was going to walk out and we said get your ass back in school! The walk out was to bring attention to exactly this type of thing! ~M~

people people calm down. This story highly exaggerates the truth of what the church stands for. I am not an active member of the church but I have been there multiple times... to Oh No Marysville, they don't have elders at a Christian church and do not forc conversion upon people. I know we all jump to conclusion when we hear a story that may or may not be effecting our children but don't trust everything you read.

Most of these Turning Point Church people are probably heterosexuals. How many of the recruits are of the opposite sex? Very slimy.

These people sound like pedophiles. They certainly use the same MO. Ban them from public Schools NOW. Back in the day, we had a Young Life minister that had open access to our campus. He was always bugging me and it made me uncomfortable. He was a creep and I should have threatened a harassment charge. Leave our children alone. It's bad enought that military recruiters come to the high achools at lunch.

Stay Grounded...check your facts: "they don't have elders at a Christian church".

See the link below for the church mentioned in this article. It shows their "Elders".
http://turningpointchurch.com/index.php?…

Yeah you religious nuts have a point. Trying new foods, learning to drive, and "filial love" coming from creepy youth pastors who want to hang out with 11 year old kids without parental consent are all scary because they are new and different. We'd be totally cool with it if we "understood" and had "context." Riiiiiiiiight. Just like you'd be cool with my texting your kids pick them up, get them high on espresso and tell them the "truth" that god doesn't exist. How does that sound? Rad? Cool? I'll hook up a ride around 6.

Yeah you religious nuts have a point. Trying new foods, learning to drive, and "filial love" coming from creepy youth pastors who want to hang out with 11 year old kids without parental consent are all scary because they are new and different. We'd be totally cool with it if we "understood" and had "context." Riiiiiiiiight. Just like you'd be cool with my texting your kids pick them up, get them high on espresso and tell them the "truth" that god doesn't exist. How does that sound? Rad? Cool? I'll hook up a ride around 6.

oops. sorry for the double post. totally uncool.

So last week the place where I usually pick up The Stranger was out so I went to a music store and asked if they had them. The guy says "you know youre in Marysville right?"

I think its funny that all these turning point members are posting on here now.

I also think its funny that people who creep around schools and ask kids for their phone numbers would call other people immature. Its amazing how some churches can beat the common sense right out of you.

Actually, to be quite honest, i GO to Turning Point and it is not a cult. I know Emily Masten and i go every Wednesday and Sunday. They believe in the TRUTH. And i do NOT like Rianne Olver. She is WRONG. You know, the people there are friendly and all they want is to show the love of god. I invite people every week and this to me is bull. Come for yourself before you believe this crap. Your life will be changed.

I mean this in a caring and compassionate way:

"HAS ANYONE RUN BACKGROUND CHECKS ON THESE FOLKS?!?"

http://turningpointchurch.com/index.php?…

Specifically Mr. Parks.

EEEEEEK.

@one who left:

"But don't be closed minded about something you don't know anything about."

Please don't make the false assumption that we on the outside don't know what's going on on the inside. We may know more than you, in fact, about how cults operate because many of us have *been through them*.

Having worked in the public schools, having had my diversity poster in the *staff room* vandalized, catching bus drivers passing out free bibles to kids - believe me, I've seen it and I "get" it. We all "get" it.

It's not rocket science to understand what this church is doing on school grounds inviting kids to sneak out with adults to get coffee and meet Christ -- it's just the cult mentality "believers" are stuck with that prevents them from seeing they're part of a predatory, brainwashing community.

There's a difference between being "closed minded" and disagreeing with covert church tactics. I simply disagree with covert church tactics.

Two cult recruiting characteristics according to UC Berkley from http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/upl…

1. Deception - Group identity and/or true motives are not revealed.

2. Emotional Leverage/Love Bombing - Instant friendship, extreme helpfulness, generosity and acceptance...Group recruiters "lovingly" will not take "no" for an answer-invitations impossible to refuse without feeling guilty and/or ungrateful. "Love", "generosity", "encouragement" are used to lower defenses and create an ever increasing sense of obligation, debt and guilt.

Sound familiar?

Meh. Sounds just like a creepier version of Young Life...which is in MANY schools already.

Meh. Sounds just like a creepier version of Young Life...which is in MANY schools already.

Wow, once again /journalism fail brought to you by Domenic "IF IT'S NOT QUEER KILL IT!" Holden.

As a former MPHS student and growing up in the hole that Marysville, I saw Turning Point people out on campus every week. The adults who came on campus were fine and did not proselytize. The douchebag, hypocrite kids were different, however. I would have been fine if we kept the adults and got rid of the kids.

What gets me, Dom, is it's almost as if you just "discovered" this has been going on when in reality this has been happening for ages. "ZOMG CHURCHEZ ARE TALKING TO MEH PPLZ!!1!" Give me a break.

As for the mom in this story, this is even more /fail. They weren't inviting her kid to a clan rally. I can think of worse places a kid could be - such as the Stranger Newsroom.

It's pretty sad that The Stranger has to mine tired, old news and mindfuck people who are actually trying to do something positive in the community rather than focus on the Seattle problems - such as the criminal brutality of its law enforcement.

I don't know how much cock you had to suck to get this piece of crap published, but I hope it was worth the $20 in Chapstick.

Help stop this crap.

Join the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

http://ffrf.org/

I didn't regularly attend Turning Point but I've been there lots of times, and the majority of my friends in HS either went to my youth group or Turning Point.
I grew up in a non Christian home, and when I got invited to youth group (not Turning Point) when I was 15..I desperately wanted to go, but knew my parents wouldn't allow it. A youth leader was nice enough to give me a ride to youth group. I remember many times not telling my parents that I was going to church because I knew that they, as non church goers wouldn't allow me to go. Once they did find out, that's exactly what happened..I wasn't allowed to go to church.
I have since graduated from high school, gone to a private Christian university and still go to church. I'd say that those adults at the church saved my life.

That story told..Parents don't ALWAYS know what's right for their children. What harm is it for a teenager to WANT to be a Christian? What kind of parent DOESN'T allow their child to go to church if they want to? There are 65468798754 worse things their child could be out doing.

Turning point might be a little aggressive in their inviting, but they've done nothing wrong.
Maybe the kid was like me, and didn't ask their parents permission to go like Katie asked them to. That's not turning point's fault.

As a Marysville resident, I have long been concerned about the motives that Turning Point has (money) and the targets they actively pursue (children and teens). They come across as giving but really are takers. The pastor is often seen at Starbucks surrounded by teens. creepy.

FYI - the website for this church is http://turningpointchurch.com ...

Grooming? Bribery? Paranoia? In a school more noted for disruptive students, low performance, gang warfare, drugs, and violence, what’s to object to having your kid invited to a church meeting? I feel sad for the Marysville School District…here’s a school that desperately needs positive role models, with teachers who feel overwhelmed (unsafe?), with a shrinking budget, who have positive volunteers pulled from the school because they ran an email over the line. Talk about having your fingers in the dike and having someone tell you that the others holding up the wall have just been pulled out because they may have been trying too hard. Grooming or befriending? Bribery? Come on…try bribing a 6th grader with $2.50 espresso. That’s not a bribe anymore than the nickel I got in the mail from a charity! Maybe enthusiasm, maybe even generosity. Maybe trying to offer kids a safe alternative to gangs, drugs, and garbage out there in the hallways, streets, and family rooms of parents overwhelmed with trying to keep food on the table, raise other kids, and steer their tweens and teens safely into life. High marks to Rianne Oliver for checking her daughter’s myspace mail. However, she seems to have missed the real danger here. Maybe she could have asked for a face-to-face meeting with the dangerous 19 year-old to see what she was really like? And, as to Turning Point being a dangerous cult…they are also well known as the lead sponsor of free giveaways in the August back to school extravaganza that they and 13 other Marysville churches sponsor every year…oh, excuse me, the back to school “bribery” that the churches in Marysville sponsor. I hope that Ms. Oliver will volunteer to step in at lunch time and help the school district out. Maybe it will be safe for her to go into the water there.
Marysville Citizen

Marysville Citizen: And Hezbollah is not just a terrorist organization, they are also known as a charitable community organization. When they arent beheading people they are building schools to teach their dogma.

Jesus was a recruiting pedophile

Turning point came to my school when I was in 9th grade more then four years ago, and THANK GOD THEY DID! They are not a cult. They are christain people that love jesus, and want to share how it feels to know jesus and see what jesus can do in your life. I to with many other will pray for all of our eminmes.

Hmmm...

This sounds like a form of grooming; that could eventually lead to sex, as the students reach the age of consent.

The school board should rethink their policies and procedures about this matter.

These zealots should not be on any campus.

I go to Turning Point in Marysville, and I've got to say, I really don't get these bad "vibes" that you guys are talking about. The people there are friendly, but not "too" friendly. And WHY NOT talk to kids about God? Who else is going to?

It's not up to the parents to decide what faith their children will have, and if someone's there to tell them about how much God loves them and invite them to church to see how they like it, that should be socially acceptable.

Although, I do agree that if a child younger than 15 or 16 is going to church, that their parents should be notified for safety reasons, and that if they do come to church, that they come with someone they know and trust, not just a grown-up that goes to the church.

Children are very impressionable, this is a good thing and a bad thing. It's good because it makes it easy for them to learn some very important things early on in life, and it's a bad thing because it makes them vulnerable to negative influence. But I guarentee that at Turning Point there IS NO negative influence.

All they want is to spread the joy that comes with the Word. I see nothing wrong with that, but maybe they should adjust their tactics a bit.

Hey 2cool2BCupboard...do you know why one of their Elders resigned recently? Wasn't it because of the goofy teachings taking place at Turning Point? Teachings like "spiritual parenting" where members are encouraged to disown their parents and submit to the authority of their new "spiritual parents" from the church. If that doesnt sound "david koresh" to me I dont know what does.

This one incident is just the scab covering a huge wound underneith. For those of you younger church members who think everything is cool. It is from your level, sure. But I dare you to ask Mike Villamoor about the following;

What scripture validates his authority as a new age Apostle.

What is his relationship to Tony Cunningham and why is Cunningham's church listed in cult watch as being dangerous.

Why did he accept "Spiritual Perenting" as a valid teaching.

Then ask to see his account records.

The thing is that he has so much control over you, you wouldn't dare ask these questions of him. Even if you did he would'nt give you an answer.

Someone needs to look into the so called leaders of this so called church. I can tell you the person who sent the my space is a good kid, who made a naive, immature choice thinking it was right. This so called leader, "aka" the pastor has them believing they need to save the world. Youth, homeless,the vulnerable. Who next do these young people feel they need to HAVE to SAVE. That is a lot to put upon them when they believe so strongly that what they are doing is so right. The young people at this so called church need to be saved from the pastors (Mike and Jeff). Yes these kids are young adults, but most are college age students and college age kids do not always make the best choices. College brings its own bad choices, this church brings a different set of bad choices. I worry for them. This person who sent the my space note and those who are volunteering at the middle school were brought to the church the same way. Sadly they think they are doing the right thing by joining "a church". These kids who join think they are saving people. Lets help lead them the right way. Lets check into these leaders and see why they choose the youth ministers. We wouldn't allow this to go on with young adults in college, it shouldn't be going on under the disguise of a church. Also these young adults are taking classes on campus. These classes count for nothing in the real world only in this pastors world. Once again these young adults need to have this pastor and the adults in charge checked out.

Religion is nothing but a business. That's why they pass the collection plate.

church members representing YouthLife and some other churches are always present at lunch at my school Lake Stevens High School. So many have approached me about going to a sermon. I haven't mustered up the guts to say "Sorry I'm sacrificing a goat that night..."

to all the negative response. learn all the facts before you give advice to others.

I was invited to a 180 youth group once... I went, since it was my friend's birthday and she ~insisted~ that I go. When I get there, someone shoves a goody bag filled with doritos, mountain dew, and candy in my hands and tells me to fill out this info card.

So I filled out the card, listened to the most pretentious, contradictory sermon I have ever heard in my 19 years of going to church, and then was asked to accept Christ into my heart whilst getting stared down by about 50 people including my friend and the pastor. Being as I already considered myself a Christian, I thought that was good enough, but apparently I needed to be a Turning Point Christian. Sorry.

A few days later, someone dropped off a personal pizza at my house. Too bad I was allergic to the toppings. The attempted bribery, while appreciated, was not successful.

I lived in Marysville for 8 years and knew people who attended this "church." I also knew kids in my class who were recruited. Turning point Church targets vulnerable people. Not only kids, but young single mothers, drug addicts, ex criminals, and the poor. The bigger your group, the more money you make. The more vulnerable, the more devout. Plus, vulnerable people have vulnerable friends, and if you recruit them, your church continues to grow and those at the top reap the financial benefits.

New religious movements and non denominational church groups are synonymous with the word cult. Not all are bad, but undoubtedly not all are good. Do you know how easy it is to start a church? It's just like opening up a store. You can simply start a church, "recruit" members and tell them/make them believe anything you wish. Anyone ever googled "how to start a church?" how about, "how to become a minister?" you might be surprised.

Yet another reason for parents to pay attention to what there kids are doing. There are orginizations, religious or not, that are doing everything they can to brainwash kids. From Nickelodeon to the Turning Point Church, parents need not assume that safe places exist. I was permanently scarred by a middle school teacher that convinced me that I was ignorant and would never amount to anything. Does that mean we need to kick teachers out of schools?

We have attended Turning Point and agree that they go a little over the top in their showy services and giveaways; however, their intentions are only to spread their excitement for Jesus which is what Christians are called to do. They do have a lot of money, but they give a lot not only to this community (who desparately need not only financial help, but spiritual as well) and they are nothing but a positive influence in Marysville. My son attends MPHS and I'm more concerned about the drug dealers that offer him drugs everyday than I am someone inviting him to church! I can't believe all the negative comments about this...many people quick to call these people a cult after reading a very one sided story. These people provide a fun and safe place for kids to hang out once a week...they aren't having sex with them and giving them drugs! People are so quick to judge others that are willing to go above and beyond what's considered "normal" and naively label them as creepy and slimy!

hey m'ville mom-have they started teaching your son about "spiritual parenting" and how he should listen to his "spiritual parents" above and beyond his biological parents? If you really love your son you better do a little more homework on Turning Point and what they really believe.

ok I am Rianne Olver's daughter my name is Aja Olver (you pronounce the first name aw-sh-uh) the chick that came to our school and always talked to ME and my friends was named Katie she is a red head and when i first met her i was thinking "oh ok this chick is nice me and her might be good friends" then she started like getting into my conversations with my friends. Like one day we were talking about past boyfriends and shes all like "I think people should only date to get married" and other time she is talking to one of my friends and she just like almost out of nowhere says stuff like "God is our lord a savior" and stuff like that and now i was thinking "wtf is wrong with this chick? i dont like her now shes annoying" so at this point me and my best friend were getting so annoyed by her we started to avoid her like going to the movie room because if we sat at a different table, oops i mean if I sat at a different table, she followed ME and started talking more to ME about god. By this time i hated her because she was soooo annoying. then one day she asked me and my friends for our myspace info. And i didnt want to argue with her and stuff so i just gave it to her and so did two other of my friends. And just like the article says i got a myspace comment like 3 or 4 days after i gave my myspace info to her
this is what it said
"Hey, 628 tonight!
6 o clock, free espresso for visitors. Super rad games and activities. Hang out with cool people. Plus you are really cool so it would just make it that much cooler.
Are you going to be there?"
then she sent one that said
"If you need a ride, I can hook it up :) "
this is what i replied
"im sorry i cant its my grandmas birthday and i have to go to her house tonight sorry"
but what Katie doesn't know is that i made that up. If you want to add her on your myspace here is the code thingy that was in the white bar thingy.http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=7580848
add her and send her your complaints =]. And if that code doesn't work search her. Her display name is K-T-O

To Rianne and Aja I am a concerned person who does not agree with the contact to Aja on My Space or the things discussed at school by Katie. I am also not in favor of the Turning Point Church. A place I would not consider a place to worship. Maybe a place to fill the pockets of the pastors. But I did some checking to see if Katie mentioned to Aja about asking her Mom's permission. When Aja said she needed to ask her mom, Katie said yes totally do that. A slight reference, but its there. Once again I do not condone what Katie did, but please mention all that was said on the My Space. Not alot, albeit, still not a good choice on her part. But make sure you both include all that was said. I also don't agree with how the attack on Katie is turning, how fortunate for the elders of Turning Point. Draw attention to the young adults and away from how they have trained them. Giving out her My Space address is vengence. Turn that anger at how Turning Point trains them. Lets shut them down. And to you Rianne I would shut down your daughters My Space, which she is not old enough to have in the first place. She list an age that she is not. That is also not safe. Aja, your Mom was right to check on it, and she is right to be upset and angry about what happened, but there should be something taught about internet safety and ALL that goes with it. So to all parents keep an eye on your kids at school, at church, at the mall, and on the internet. Yes we want to build trust and give them their privacy, but they earn that as they learn and grow. Simple, yes, naive, yes but we parents need to be informed at all levels of our kids lives. Yes things happen, but in this fast moving world all we might have is to stay aware. This has made me want to do some more checking on Turning Point. Which I will continue to do. And to the parents of the Turning Point recruiters you need to see what they have gotten themselves into. Some of you may not care, or might not know but maybe because of this contact on My Space the people and parnets of Marysville and the surrounding communities can open their eyes and check on what the so called Pastors of Turning Point are doing to these young adults. Their tactics are what I believe to be constant repitition of the same teachings. This is all they are hearing at their so called school (SOMA). Hear it enough and you believe it. And by believe it, I mean, how these young adults truly believe they need to save young people, homeless, the vulnerable. Thier safety should be of concern too. Who they are talking to on the street and who is teaching them. What are their credentials and accreditation? How do you think this pastor got his recruiters? He preyed upon their vulnerabilities and their desires to find Jesus. (Notice PREY, not PRAY, think about who the predator is. These pastor and elders use these kids to do their recruiting and look what its got him, cheap labor and an expensive home(s),and many properties. Check the Snohomish County Assesors web site. Slave labor is not allowed in foreign countries. Don't allow it in Marysville. Don't let these pastors donate to your schools or whatever they may want to donate to and then in return you feel obligated to them. Its like bribery. And is Pastor Mike or Pastor Jeff going to come to Katie's defense and talk about the good, kind person she is, and this is what they are teaching her and the other young adults to do at SOMA (Turning Points College, Ha ha, but not funny at all) under the disguise of a school. I admire Katie has found Jesus I just wish she wouldn't have found him through Turning Point's way of manipulation. If she wakes up and sees the light I hope there is a church and a pastor who provide her the right direction. Actually maybe she will fall asleep in with your endless chatter (tactics) at your so called school and the break in repition will make all of those young adults take a stand or should I say take a hike as far away from Turning Point as they can get.

Also when you gave a link to the My Space page it gives a link to all that have contacted that person at her My Space page. It opens up a new set of problems. Please be careful.

Hmm, so all NAMBLA would have to do to get permission to send representatives into the schools at lunch hour, and pass out propaganda, is purport to be providing adult supervision. If they rented space from the school system they'd be untouchable.

Nice.

teenagers are out of control, disrespectful to say the least, and teachers do not have authority to "control" the students. I am thankful that when I send my child to school I know that there are extra eyes watching over them. Take time off of your work schedule to go watch for the lunch hour, cause I can't do it every day.

Wonderful article, I'm really glad you did the work to bring this up.

Scary thing cults. My partner's sister is in one in California and it's destroying their family. I don't understand the laws surrounding them, but they ought to be illegal.

It's brainwashing.

As a mother of a member of the church, but not a member myself there are a couple of things I'd like to state.
One: yup - there's a lot worse things your kids could be doing. Accept the fact that someone is trying to reach out and help those kids that don't have parents involved in a healthy way in their lives.
Two: nothing should go un-monitored. I personally have issue's with Turning Point. In the past I have seen where the church has made it apparent that the 'church' is more important than your immediate family. Sure every situation has it's own story to it, but my advise is;
Three: keep involved with your kids that attend. Don't let them drop away from your family to have a church that can at times promote almost a 'cult' attitude. You're a bad person if you smoke, drink, swear...... any and all churches should accept people for who they are....not how many times they repeat 'I love Jesus' just to feel accepted into a group. Too many churches/cults put stigmatisms on stating something just to feel accepted.

So i have to say i am quiet curious as to why everyone always turns this back to money and sex. . . is that because you have neither?
I know Turning Point and the people that go there and they are some of the most generous people i know, and its not to be cultish its part of spreading the love of Christ, which any Christian should do, maybe you should try reading the bible and see what it says there, and why are you all so quick to judge people you don't know? Try getting to know someone from there, see what you think, get to know a few of them. . . oh wait thats right your all too big a pussys to do something like that that might actually make some sense.

My advice to all of you. . . get a life. . . and be more concerned about the people out there that a actually doing bad things (drugs, murder, rape, violence. . .) and leave the people who are trying to do something good alone. please, your all just wasting everyones time.

Justwondering: you admonish for "judging" and then you turn around and do just that! That, in my JUDGMENT, makes you a hypocrite.

Justwondering: you admonish for "judging" and then you turn around and do just that! That, in my JUDGMENT, makes you a hypocrite.

actually thats a little think i like to call sarcasm. . .get used to it. . . learn to love it. . . cuz everyone does it. . .

No doubt Jesus was a sarcasm king

Kip Schoning,

You have a very confused view of churches, gay people, and pedophilia.

Churches don't like gay people because they think being gay is a "choice" and a sin (it's neither). Not all churches think gay people are bad, just the fundie wacko ones.

Gay people are too smart to get involved in something like a cult anyway (the vast majority anyway). And besides, why would any gay person want to be involved in something that is going to tell them how terrible they are or try to "convert" them into heterosexuals?

Pedophilia is like a third sexual orientation. Pedophiles desire to have sex with children, regardless of their sex. Most pedophiles have a preference towards either boys or girls, but their attraction is towards CHILDREN. Most pedophiles are heterosexual too, both in percentage and total number. Pedophilia is slimy, homosexuality is perfectly normal.

Now, doesn't it feel better to be educated?

ppreston...calling one sexual orientation normal while calling another sexual orientation slimy is like the pot calling the kettle black.

They should treat those Holy Rollers just like sex predators, bag em and tag em!!

Our 21 year old daughter, Jinx Hayes, has been recruited by a CULT operating in the Seattle, Bothell and/or Kirkland area. It happened pretty fast. Within 9 months of her first contact.If you know which guru/cult she has joined let us know.

Good for you Rianne for bringing this to everyone's attention. It is absolutely horrible that adults, male OR female, are soliciting underage children on MySpace without the consent of their parents. If this Turning Point church was legitimate, this would NOT be going on.

I am so tired of seeing what is supposed to be a comment on something, in this case a "fake news article written by Strangler” into a blog site.

Comment sites turned into blogs--not good.