Racist Queers

Just Because You Belong to Another Minority Group Doesn’t Mean You’re Not Racist

Comments

1
amazeballs x
2
This, a million times this.
3
There is one thing. There is a difference between making a racist comment and being racist. Granted, many racist comments are made by racists, but also, many racist comments are made by ignorant or misspoken moments. Take your teacher who taught the "Pick a bale of cotton" song. If she did not know it's history, she's not racist, she's ignorant of the meaning. Calling her a racist is a disservice. Also recognize that we all have moments of ignorance. I recently had a conversation with a coworker about the term 'ghetto' which he thought was a term only applied to black americans, and I had to educate him about Venice and the Jews. I didn't take offense, because I knew he wasn't trying to belittle the history and suffering of my people, he just had never been taught that.

Sure, I agree, don't let subtle racism or overt racism stand unchallenged. However, when possible, I think you should give people the benefit of the doubt, if for no other reason than if somebody feels they were unjustly labeled as racist with no education or explanation, they'll just assume there is nothing they can do to improve themselves.
5
F#&king Awesome! Thank you Solomon.

For years, as a bi-racial gay man, I bought into the assumption that because we're minorities and oppressed, racism or prejudice in the gay community would not impede my happiness.

Boy was I wrong.

I turned the rejection inward as a personal failing - my appearance, my weight, etc. Now I understand that gay white men are just not that into me because they've grown up with the same segregated, isolated culture as their straight brethren.
6
@3) In anti-oppression circles, we refer to people like that (and self identify as white people) as anti-racist racists. Even if our goal is to be as non-racist as possible, we're still white people (often men) who benefit from all that privilege and can only work as hard as possible to fight against it.

Racism is a lot more subtle and nuanced than KKK members burning crosses on the streets. It's also all the minor shit that well-assuming people do without thinking about it.

----

LOVED the section about apologizing. Sometimes we put feet in our mouth. After doing so, backtrack and try to learn why something you said upset someone else.
7
@OP - you're an African. Chances are, the only race oppressing your ancestors was your own.
8
@5, Fuck off.
9
@ 5, Fuck off 2 X. I live just outside DC, an area where race relations are complicated. you = part of the problem

But thanks for reminding me why I don't usually bother w/ unregistered comments, anymore.
10
@7 - Or the English, French, Dutch, Belgian, Arab, East Indian, German, Spanish or Italian people colonizing/living in Africa.
11
Excellent post.

I learned that song too. "You gotta jump down, turn around, pick a bale of dacron. Jump down, turn around, pick some nylon too."
12
Okay So I understand correcting people when they do racist things. That's wrong obviously. But since when is it racist to just be white? I don't see why I should be punished for "enjoying white privilege" I can't help being born white nor was I the one who put these privileges into place. I think everyone should be afforded the same privelages, but I also don't think I should be assumed a racist because of something my ancestors did.
13
which firesign theater album was that, fnarf? don't crush that dwarf?
14
So i understand that there is white privelage and that is wrong. But since when is simply being born white make me a racist?
15
@6. I agree that life in the United States favors the white (and particularly the wealthy) ethnicity, and that awareness of that is important. However, racist is a very harsh term and is a horrible umbrella to classify people under, especially if their only mistake is a lack on knowledge or a lack of forethought. Call them insensitive....call them dumb....but I worry that if people feel they are always one mistake, one slipup, one misinterpretation away from being pushed under that umbrella, it causes a backlash of disinterest in racial struggles as a whole. We have to give people an allowance to express themselves and use critical thinking and intelligent judgment to determine if the person is racist.
16
This is excellent. One small quibble, "Pick A Bale of Cotton" is a folksong or worksong, not a spiritual.
17
F#&king Awesome! Thank you Solomon.

For years, as a bi-racial gay man, I bought into the assumption that because we're minorities and oppressed, racism or prejudice in the gay community would not impede my happiness.

Boy was I wrong.

I turned the rejection inward as a personal failing - my appearance, my weight, etc. Now I understand that gay white men are just not that into me because they've grown up with the same segregated, isolated culture as their straight brethren.
18
@15 You make great points. Yes, it is ignorance that can manifest as prejudice. And yes, people throw the 'racist' word around too easily. This equation makes it simple:

Prejudice + Power = Racism
19
@10 - and yet, over thousands of years, the oppression of those invading groups is merely a drop in the bucket compared to the oppression native Africans managed to do just fine on their own.

People like you really do annoy the shit out of me - pretending Africa, my home, btw - was some sort of mythical Eden where everyone got along and no one was raped, murdered, or enslaved before those dastardly Euros came over. Or the Arabs. Or anyone else you may care to mention. There never was such a time, or place. Human beings really are the same everywhere. It's dismissive and condescending to perpetuate this 'poor, defenseless native' bs. The slave trade could never have occurred without the hearty, enthusiastic support and assistance of Africans. Native, black Africans. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.
20
At least you didn't perpetuate racist stereo types with threats of violence in this article.
21
Excellent article, Solomon, thank you. I do, however, think you should respond @12, as it too is on the short-list of responses from white folks (and you do a much better job than I).
22
@19, And yet still, fuck off. Your statement that "humans really are the same everywhere" is in direct conflict with your constant blather about black people having a predisposition to murder and rape. Fuck the fuck off you fucking fuck.
23
"You know another white person who is in tune enough to stop you from looking like a jackass in front of a group of minorities. You should stop reading this right now and go hug this person."

Racist.
24
@18 your definition is horse shit.

I got stabbed and almost killed by a black man who was calling me a "white motherfucker".

If "power" was required for him to qualify as racist, he had all the power he needed with his knife to stab with and his mouth.
25
@13, I believe it's "How Can You Be In Two Places At Once (When You're Not Anywhere At All)".
26
@18

I guess your definition means that it is impossible for whites to be racist when they are in Zimbabwe.
27
@23 He can't be racist, he's black.
28
@22.

19 is not the same racist troll as me
29
Whites can't be racist when they are in Zimbabwe!
30
Jews can be racist when they are in Israel, but those same Jews can't be racist when they are in Saudi Arabia!
31
Please don't call me white.
32
Whites make up less than ten percent of the world's population.
33
Whites can't be racist when they are in Detroit!
34
"I know it's not fun to deal with misdirected anger, but sometimes proving that you are not racist is hearing people out and letting them have their moment to release that anger."

Who the fuck has to prove they're not racist? And why the fuck do you think it's alright to subject people to your misdirected anger?

Since you can't internet punch me in the mouth, get over it. Seriously, get the fuck over it.

We're all the ancestors of slaves. Fucking deal with it. You're not special. Again, Get over it.
35
This kind of "progressive" "academic" "anti-racist" fact-ignoring, logic-ignoring idiocy about race fits almost all the criteria for a BRAINWASHING CULT.

Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of "Brainwashing" in China is a psychology non-fiction book on brainwashing and mind control by Robert Jay Lifton.

"Eight Criteria for Thought Reform":
1. Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.

2. Mystical Manipulation. The manipulation of experiences that appears spontaneous but is, in fact, planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority, spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets the leader and/or group apart from humanity, and that allows reinterpretation of historical events, scripture, and other experiences.

3. Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.

4. Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.

5. Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

6. Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.

7. Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

8. Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.
36
So is the article on black homophobia is coming next?
37
If the Stranger is so supposedly "anti-racist" and all about "dismantling white privilege" then why are there only 2 black writers at the stranger? Or maybe really one, I don't think Mudede actually counts since he has white-wife privilege.
38
I absolutely agree that all of these weak responses in defensive of being called racist are very revealing, but none of them are new - they've been around for years and should be retired for good. What would be more informative, I think, would be if you could share the original comments that were made which prompted these lame, racist responses. Maybe then racist behavior can be unlearned.
39
Another youthful humorless hand wringing privilege dance. So dated and stupid.
40
@26 Where are your examples of Zimbabwe racism against Whites?

@24 Read it again, my equation did not say 'for Blacks only'
41
So what exactly were those racist behaviors that prompted this article? Cause that would be useful for us privileged ignorant white shmucks to know.
42
@3: "There is one thing. There is a difference between making a racist comment and being racist."

Bullshit, to some extent.

You don't have to be a card-carrying armband-wearing Neo Nazi, or even consider yourself to be a racist to be one.

It's also difficult to fit people into hard "racist" categories, aside from "people who hold racist thoughts and ideas."

Does that make you a racist? Yes! Does that encompass all of you? No!

The sooner someone comes to terms with their own bigotry, the better.

And "I can't be a bigot because..." is the definite way to never ever change your ways.
46
Got a lot of thoughts about this... but here's what's at the forefront atm:

I'm bothered by the unspoken implication that blacks have a monopoly on experiencing racism. I'm disturbed by the blatant statement that only minority groups can experience discrimination.

I'm a white woman, and I moved to The South in my early 20s. I wasn't there a day before I realized there were places I wasn't wanted because my skin was too pale. And, as a woman, I represent 51% of the population, a majority, yet I won't earn as much in my lifetime in a given career as a man with the same set of skills and abilities.

So, essentially, take your sense of entitlement and shove it. You are certainly not unique in experiencing these sorts of things. Am I hurt and offended that I was run out of restaurants and dance halls in the south because I'm white? Sure. Do I think for a second that gives me the right to turn my anger on someone who probably made a very un-PC joke unknowing that it might be a sensitive subject? Hell no. Do I expect them to apologize for shit they didn't do? Uhm... again, Hell no. The sheer arrogance of being offended on behalf of your ancestors.. really! I'm no more responsible for the choices of someone dead a hundred years than I am responsible for the choices of my parents, both still alive and kickin. Grown ass adults making grown ass adult decisions hardly require your defensive reaction to validate their life and experiences. You wanna take offense at the steaming pile that's been heaped on you during your life, go for it, but don't you think that's plenty without trying to bury yourself in the steaming pile of history? Learn from it, but don't carry it around like a ball and chain. Yeesh.

I'm glad I had the experiences I did, they certainly widened my understanding of the world. I still appreciate a good stereotyping black joke as much as I appreciate a good stereotyping honkey joke. Which is to say, in general, they crack me up, mostly cuz I've known folks who fit both profiles. And no, I'm not planning to apologize for laughing. You want my teeth? Come get em.
49
This article is boring and would generically fit anyone, not particularly enlightening to the gay. The supposed racist gay here (or dyke? really?) is a straw man. Real queers aren't to be found burning crosses or throwing the Ennword around (outside of playacting/hipster doofus shit - not that there's anything right with that). I'm with #41: specifics or it didn't happen!
50
I'm gay and a lot of my jokes/comments are horribly misogynist.
52
44, 45, 47, 48: Fly back to Stormfront, where they're dying to know the latest in hatred.
53
@51: Also statistics taken entirely from your ass.

You hate gays and you hate blacks, and like a good Neo-Nazi, anything you can do to get them fighting each other is a victory.

We're not biting.
54
I remember watching an interview with the creators of that piece of crap show, Queer as Folk. When asked why they lacked diversity in the main cast, their answer was " we ARE a minority! We're gay! "
55
I like how people are starting to ask Solomon for proof that people have said racist shit to him. As if it's more likely that he just made all this stuff up. Get your birth certificate ready, Solomon.
57
I am a racist, especially after reading a lot of these comments
58
Blacks are just as racist as whites. They just lack the social capital to do anything about it. Whites are no more/less racist than anyone else. Get over it.
60
Wow, there's sure a lot of defensiveness here. I'm sorry, I missed the part where the author said that white people need to apologize for benefiting from their privilege. He didn't say that; he said that we need to acknowledge our privilege, and try to recognize when that comes out in ignorant/racists words and actions.

In fact, the defensiveness I see here may be *exactly* what he's talking about for much of the column.
62
Someone explain white privilege in 2011? What don't you have access to that whites do?
64
I'm not saying that I'm not racist (I'm white, I'm gay, I must be!) But one thing I know for sure is that the most racist people I've ever met are those who complain constantly about being the victims of racism, whether historical or personal. They're the ones who most see life in "black and white" terms (bad pun unintended).
65
Solomon, this is why I love you so much. ;)
66
#62 Wow, that is...stunning. I don't really like to call people names on message boards, but you're a moron. And I would gladly say that to your face if you made a comment like that to me in real life.
69
@66 Who's the moron? You can't even answer a simple question. Truth hurts I guess.
70
@66
By the way twat,
I work in Bellevue which is 41% minority. I would guess mostly from S and SE Asia. They account for most if my customers buying luxury cars. Why are they so successful in this "racist" society? Could it be that their functional behavior leads to success? Why are blacks so fucked up? Could it be that 70% of you are born illegitimate? Does whitey prevent anyone from opening a fucking condom? What about graduation and incarceration rates? Look those up.
71
When I first moved to Seattle, I was friends with an older gay black man. He was attractive and cultured, but also quite bitter. He maintained that Seattle's gay community was particularly racist, and that was why he was alone. I thought it probably had a lot to do with his difficult personality - he really could be hateful - plus the fact that, aside from work, he never, ever left his apartment, and was constantly stoned.

It was probably a chicken/egg scenario: part of the reason his was so hateful was because he had been rejected so many times. But the more I got to know him, it occurred to me that his real problem was ageism, not racism. He had been a popular DJ, playing clubs like The Monastary and Shelly's Leg, and when he got older and stopped being a "celebrity", his social life ended.

He was also a terrible lech, and was always pressuring me to sleep with him and calling me racist when I wouldn't. (which was ironic, because if he had just picked me up in a bar, I would totally have slept with him. The more I got to know him, the less attractive he was)
72
I'm confused. So were those fucking puppets telling the truth or lying when they assured me that it's all ok because Everyone is a Little Bit Racist?

The puppets were cute but a bit creepy which I guess is to be expected when youre going through life with someone's hand always stuck up your ass.
73
And having grown up in Selma, AL, I know there are degrees of racism. But it's kind of like degrees of murder. Sure, first degree murder has a different intent than manslaughter. But, at the end of the day, an innocent person is still dead.
74
Here's how the hypothetical conversation should have gone...

White guy: (Something unintentionally racist.)

Solomon: Hey, what you just said is racist.

White guy: I'm gay, how could I be racist?

Solomon: No, I'm not calling YOU racist, I'm just saying that what you said is racist.

...If Solomon doesn't skip this important step, we all save ourselves a lot of defensiveness, conflict and face-punching. But I guess that wouldn't have made for a very interesting article. So yes, Solomon, you make some very good points about how "we are doing it wrong." But it would seem that YOU are doing it wrong too.
75
Solomon, you are great.

Commenters, some of you need to think hard about why your reaction is so fucking defensive.
76
@ 44: You rock! If more people were like you, there would be a lot less butt-hurt in this world and we would all have a much better time of it. Cheers!
78
Solomon! How dare you only talk about racism from a black perspective, except for the parts where you didn't! This column is completely one-sided and fails to criticize racial groups that I don't like. Also, you use a lot of blatant hyperbole which is the last thing I would expect from a comedian.

Seriously though, excellent article! I'm sad to say that I have run into exactly this issue with friends in the past. Not just white gay friends, of course, but friends from any minority group who just don't seem to realize that being a minority does not exclude them holding bigoted views of other minorities.
79
@74 suggested saying:

"No, I'm not calling YOU racist, I'm just saying that what you said is racist."

Yes, I think in the case of a well-intentioned person just saying something careless that would really help prevent a defensive response. If you attack a person's character of course they are going to get defensive. Focusing on what they actually said or did is more constructive.
80
Echoing #75: An insightful article with disproportionately defensive responses must be hitting a nerve. Way to go, Solomon.
81
"I know it sucks being called racist when you feel you're not, but I promise you that it is far worse being on the receiving end of racism."

How can you be sure? You already said in the article you are black. How can you know what it would be like to be a gay white male?

What is worse, being falsely accused of rape or being raped? Who was worse, Pol Pot or Hitler?

I could keep listing things that may or may not be worse. However, you are missing the point because you are having an oppression contest.
82
White guilt is bullshit.

Can't we all just get along?
83
@74, 75 and 78 - well stated!

Yes, a lot of defensiveness here. Reminds me of the times I talk about the prejudices I've witness in the gay community and my white friends invariably respond with 'well, I'm not racist!'
84
@83 - I read the defensiveness quite differently. Without a specific example of what the author took offense to, we are left guessing whether his tar and feathering of this hypothetical gay racist is legit or unjustified. Being called racist is a viscous smear so it better be justified.

Also, people recoil at the term white privilege because it can be seen as an affront to accomplishment. Your success is only due to your pigmentation which is as racist as saying someones failures are due to their darker pigmentation.

85
@84 - Agreed, 'racist' is a harsh word to throw around. I prefer 'prejudice' until the equation (prejudice + power = racism) is clear.

Where I disagree is that I need to give you specific examples. Prejudice (that I've experienced) is subtle, not overt (name calling, for example).

As far as 'white privilege being an affront to accomplishment', I'll give you a metaphor. Being White in America is being born on 1st Base without having an at bat.
86
I am hetero-racist, by which I mean I have a prejudice regarding straight black people. My prejudice is that I expect them to be homophobic, and it's based on sad experience.
87
To the person who wanted to know what people who are not white are unable to do, here's your answer: Live a life unmarred by automatic, unthinking prejudice.

I am white and while I may not be welcome in every area in my old hometown of Atlanta, I am not automatically suspected of malicious intent when I'm there, either.

If I move to a Black neighborhood, no one frets to the neighbors about property values or whether my friends are going to move in there too and make the area less safe.

If I get drunk in a bar and make an ass of myself, no one relates the story as a cautionary tale of how "those people" are.

If I approach a stranger in a public place, they don't re-actively feel fearful of my motives.

White privilege is the combination of a thousand little tiny things that only someone without that privilege would notice - or someone that took a few minutes and gave it some thought. I will not say that I never have racist thoughts or feelings, I grew up in the South in the 70's, of course I do. But I know better because I WANT to know better. I WANT to not be racist or make other people feel small or dismissed because of some thoughtless action or turn of phrase. Not that it hasn't happened, nor that it won't happen again.

But at least I have the good grace to feel ashamed when it happens and try to make amends. But sometimes I can't make amends and the person on the receiving end has one more tiny little cut among thousands that I have never known and never will.
88
"Being White in America is being born on 1st Base without having an at bat."

That right there is a perfect example of a "thought-terminating cliche", one of the sure signs of a brainwashing mind-control cult.

"Critical Race Theory" "progressivism" is faith-based mind-control cult!
90
@85 - thank you for the thoughtful reply. One last point:

"Being White in America is being born on 1st Base without having an at bat."

I don't mean to discount racism or minimize your experiences. The difficulty with your statement is it unfairly assumes all white people are born with a head start in life. There are a host of issues that most people encounter: single parents, illness, poverty, sexual abuse, etc that make the "white privilege" assumption insulting to the recipient. Although an extreme example, Obama's kids will know more privilege than most white folk.

The converse is equally true - during graduate studies, I was disgusted by white students who assumed the black student was there because of affirmative action. Now I am a recruiter for a Fortune 500 type company. We are told to give preference to minority recruits. Is it fair for their credentials to be second guessed as tokens of diversity rather than as candidates who are equally deserving?

See where this gets us? Take people as individuals, not as members of a tribe.
91
@90 said - "The difficulty with your statement is it unfairly assumes all white people are born with a head start in life."

I said America, not life. I've been to European countries and I'm treated quite differently. No one points out how 'articulate' I am.

"There are a host of issues that most people encounter: single parents, illness, poverty, sexual abuse, etc that make the "white privilege" assumption insulting to the recipient. "

All of these problems have been visited upon Southern Whites during the Jim Crow era, yet they found time to feel superior enough to Blacks to subject them to second-class status.

"Take people as individuals, not as members of a tribe."

Take my word for it - people don't see your race because you're White, but they damn well see my race (Black) because I do not fit their stereotype of what a Black person is suppose to act like.
92
@85 I don't think you understand the rules of baseball.
93
I have lived on the hill 5 years. Seen 2 instances of anti-gay hate speech, both times they were black males. Nether time did anyone retaliate with racist language. The vast majority of open hate speech I have seen directed towards Asians, Jews, gays and women have been from African Americans. The entitlement to openly abuse and speak insensitively about other groups is something I've seen much more frquently in blacks then gays. And I never see anyone making racist comments in return. Why don't you address black homophobia? Black anti-asian racism? Black anti-semitism? Black mysogyny? If a white gay man had gone on a Tracy Morgan like rant I'm sure it would be held to the light as an example of how white gays need to address their racism. When are blacks going to have to address their homophobia, anti-semitism, anti-asian, mysogyny issues? Does anyone really think white gay men are guilty of more hate speech and crimes towards black men then straight black men are towards gays?
94
@70 - Exactly. Blacks certainly aren't the only people to be discriminated against/oppressed, but they take their self-pity so seriously that you'd think they were.

Finish school. Stay out of jail. Get a fucking job. Raise/support your children. Do these things and watch white attitudes change.

I don't hate you because of the color of your skin. I hate you because of the damage you do to this society. Hispanics are damn hard workers. Love 'em. Ditto Asians. So it's not some white supremecy thing. Just sick to death of what blacks do to this nation. Contribute very little, take far too much. What percentage of my tax dollars goes to support your fatherless children and your all-too-frequent incarceration? Too damn much.

I have every right to think and feel the way I do. Where did you/all of us get this wacky notion that we all have to accept everyone else? You don't. I don't. I'm a racist. So what? It's the accumulation of a lifetime's experience, just as it is for everyone. My experiences have taught me to have zero respect for blacks. And to be fearful for my safety whenever I'm around them.

Start being good citizens, for fuck's sake. And stop with the never ending self-pity. You could change your lot in life if you'd stop wallowing.

Oh, and thanks for all the graffiti! It sure makes the city look real purty.
95
All of you posting racist shit are cretinous garbage. Go someplace. Far away.
96
The first paragraph is amazingly condecending. If you want people to listen to you perhaps losing some of the snarkiness would help.
97
Um, @94. You do realize we have a black president, right?

I'm not wasting my time addressing your steriotyping--even when you are trying to complement an entire race by attributing them all one demeaning quality that serves you. That's racist.

But when you are attacking an entire race by attributing them everything that is wrong with society, that way more than racist. Uber, if you know what I mean.
98
Hey @94, Now, I am going to resist indulging my initial visceral reaction which would be to tell you to fuck off and die. I repeat, I am not telling you to fuck off and die...right now...right this second...in an incredibly painful and humiliating way. Instead, I am going to go the surely pointless route of trying to reason with you.

You say "I don't hate you because of the color of your skin. I hate you because of the damage you do to this society."...so, if we are to humor your "point" that black people, in general, do damage to society, let me ask you: What is it about black people that makes them so "destructive" to the moral fabric of this great nation? Are they (we...I am a black person)just prone to do damage because their skin is darker and that is where evil comes from? Is that the logical answer? that your pigmentation is directly related to your moral compass?..that doesn't seem very scientific to me so let's take another stab at it (we like to stab things).

If we can agree that it is a persons brain and not literally their skin that is the primary catalyst for their behavior, there must be some external force causing black people to "act out" in this way (what could it be???? what a great mystery this is!!!). On to the next bullet point (we like bullets).

I have always found the term "products of our environment" interesting because it is such an over-simplification, not only of this particular issue, but of environments as a whole. An environment is also a product of it's environment and so on, just like our environment in Seattle is partially a product of the environment on our planet and the environment on earth is a product of our distance to the sun, bla bla bla, etc, the environment of the black community CAN ONLY be a product of the larger environment of this (mostly white) country...that's just fucking science.

The higher crime, teenage pregnancy, high school dropout rates amount black Americans (facts I will not dispute) CAN ONLY be a fair reflection of this nations social environment as a whole. If we accept that the color of your skin does not DIRECTLY determine your behavior then we must accept that the negative aspects of the black community CAN ONLY be aspects that were primarily imposed upon it by the atmosphere that envelopes it...this is the only thing that makes sense.

These statistics are not valid reasons for racism, they can only be a reflection of racism that already exists.

Ok, I'm sure you read that entire thing and now you are a completely changed person and that was totally NOT a waste of my time (time I could have spent painting my initials on a wall) and...you are welcome, any time you get tired of being a fucking uneducated disgrace to humanity, please let me know and I will run to your aid.

On the OFF-CHANCE that you are simply a privileged racist fuck and look for any excuse to feel superior to other human being because deep down you realize how pathetic your own existence is (OFF-CHANCE), or you don't understand sarcasm. Let me revert to my initial response. PLEASE FUCK OFF AND DIE NOW!
100
Ha ha typo! Gid should be God. GOD DOES NOT EXIST. EVOLUTION IS TRUE. WE ARE NOT ALL JUST THE SAME.

Give up your fact-ignoring, reality-denying, anti-scientific faith-based "progressive" cult belief system, you naive brainwashed dupes.
101
You can believe In either evolution or "racial equality" but you can't believe in both at the same time. Choose now: science or religion!
102
As this is a post that's supposed to be about racist queers, I don't feel the desire to speak on the "queer" side of things. I will adress the other part, though, as it pertains to a poster in particular. I would go on to say more about the other unfortunate ideas communicated here, but we all know it'll only end in tears.

@99: I'm an atheist, too, who happens to be black. I, too, live in the world of hard, cold mathematics and data; therefore, I consider logic and good-ol' common sense to be irreplaceable in my efforts to eke out a decent, civilized living.

HERE'S THE THING WITH ME, THOUGH: I also choose reason and compassion as guides. Reason allows me, as a freethinker, to avoid succumbing to the icy grip of empirical knowledge (which, as has been proven from time to time, can occasionally just turn out to be some Harvard professor's opinion). Compassion allows me to keep my heart and move within human circles without dealing out my own biased analyses of people and situations like some kind of fucking Martian death-ray.

Okay, science says I'm chock full of testosterone and savagely angry. GREAT! I'm quite content with life, however? Why?...because I just knocked over a liquor store on Aurora and pimped some hoes afterwards? NO, silly! It's because, as a human being who desires life, a quiet existence, money in my pocket that I've earned through legal means and such, I am free to exhibit COMPASSION to those who desire the same path in life (I would daresay that we ALL do, really) and REASON to get me out of those mental jams where I could very, very EASILY succumb to a state of mind that says "this person is lesser" or "they must all act like that" or that.

I've only recently come out as a freethinker, so your line of thinking is one that bothers me. It doesn't consider variables, fluctuations, circumstances--it's hardline to a fault. As we ARE, indeed, unified in the concept of a world without an overseeing supreme being, I would hope that you come to a more reasonable and compassionate state of mind when it comes to people like me. Or not...it's your world, right?
103
As this is a post that's supposed to be about racist queers, I don't feel the desire to speak on the "queer" side of things. I will adress the other part, though, as it pertains to a poster in particular. I would go on to say more about the other unfortunate ideas communicated here, but we all know it'll only end in tears.

@99: I'm an atheist, too, who happens to be black. I, too, live in the world of hard, cold mathematics and data; therefore, I consider logic and good-ol' common sense to be irreplaceable in my efforts to eke out a decent, civilized living.

HERE'S THE THING WITH ME, THOUGH: I also choose reason and compassion as guides. Reason allows me, as a freethinker, to avoid succumbing to the icy grip of empirical knowledge (which, as has been proven from time to time, can occasionally just turn out to be some Harvard professor's opinion). Compassion allows me to keep my heart and move within human circles without dealing out my own biased analyses of people and situations like some kind of fucking Martian death-ray.

Okay, science says I'm chock full of testosterone and savagely angry. GREAT! I'm quite content with life, however? Why?...because I just knocked over a liquor store on Aurora and pimped some hoes afterwards? NO, silly! It's because, as a human being who desires life, a quiet existence, money in my pocket that I've earned through legal means and such, I am free to exhibit COMPASSION to those who desire the same path in life (I would daresay that we ALL do, really) and REASON to get me out of those mental jams where I could very, very EASILY succumb to a state of mind that says "this person is lesser" or "they must all act like that" or that.

I've only recently come out as a freethinker, so your line of thinking is one that bothers me. It doesn't consider variables, fluctuations, circumstances--it's hardline to a fault. As we ARE, indeed, unified in the concept of a world without an overseeing supreme being, I would hope that you come to a more reasonable and compassionate state of mind when it comes to people like me. Or not...it's your world, right?
104
While we're laying it all out, here, let me float this stinker: So there's a lot of black men in jail, right? Like... a LOT. And most people don't think it's causal based on physiology (melanin =/= crime) So maybe it's cultural. Maybe it's not racism from without, but child abuse from within. If your model for child rearing is Monique in Precious, maybe you're driving your kids insane and they spend the rest of their lives paying it forward. Just a thought. Ok now go back to blaming gay folks.
105
Hi, Pmasp. Here's hoping you're being sincere and searching for input, not just taking the piss because it FEELS good.

Leaving my opinions on "Precious" out of this--and not being clear on the idea that black parents would willingly and righteously model themselves after the character Mo'Nique played--here is what I'll opine about your child abuse idea. Let's use a degree of reason to rationalize this, as well.

We've all seen news reports about child abuse and mistreatment, and about how it really can result in that abused child becoming an abusive parent, or even worse. Your framing of the idea, if we can just get right to my perception of it, seems to tie into the concept of the overaggressive black person--chock-full of testosterone, as poster #99 said. This aggressive individual, lacking an outlet through which they can vent the frustration surrounding their existence, finds a release through beating or sexually abusing his or her children. This, then, is cultural--a profoundly-unique phenomenon within the black community alone.

Your hypothesis seems to suggest that, within other cultural circles, this phenomenon is either minimal or nonexistent. I think you can gather that I disagree with your hypothesis to an extent. While we can say that sexual abuse is a problem in my community, we cannot conclude with straight faces that it is not a problem in others, nor can we conclude that the phenomenon is more damaging in one culture than in another. An abused child is an abused child, no matter what culture produced. To take that abused child and defend a behavior or mindset that promotes prejudice or discrimination based on the culture that produced him or her (as if to say, "See? They ALL fuck their own kids, just like the movie") falls short of a complete and balanced understanding of the phenomenon, or even a sense of compassion towards the abused.

That's all I had to say.
106
Any categorizing or compartmentalizing of any given ethnic or race group with the purpose of proving their lesser worth or detriment to society automatically invalidates your own worth as any kind of a decent person. I think that's a fairly safe and accurate generalization.
107
@98
You know very well that @94 is not talking about skin color. They're talking about a pervasive culture and attitude among American blacks that is malignant and damaging to society. All of my neighbors are black immigrants from east Africa. They are the best neighbors I could ever want or ask for. They are hard-working, they don't complain, and do not expect whitey to give them anything. If more American blacks behaved like their immigrant brothers they'd see all of their real problems disappear and white attitudes change. Also, poverty is not an excuse for dumb fuck black males to create illegitimate litters of chid'rins wherever they tred. Does whitey prevent all those dumb-ass niggas from using condoms? Condoms are free you know?
108
I meant tread. Point still valid.
109
And, to the author,

While I share your sentiment--AND your frustration--I would only suggest the slightest thing, in the interest of fostering more-productive dialogue around such issues going forward:

Ease up on the snark a bit. You've probably lived long enough to find that frustrated words and actions result in the same, and the opportunity to bring good things out of a discussion about matters such as this are lost in a sea of venom and bad feelings. ESPECIALLY on the Internet, and ESPECIALLY when it comes to American race relations.

Balancing the opening serve a little more effectively definitely helps. I find that, in difficult conversations, people are more receptive to those who are able to say, "Hey, I'm a human being, too, and I screw up just like you." They're more receptive and willing to correspond with a person who doesn't come to the talk with a defensive or condescending air. Even when you're opening a discussion about something as sensitive as what you and I go through as black men--something that, frankly, both of us hate and can do without--the best way to get someone from the pointedness I found throughout your article to the more-balanced points in it is to pull back on a degree of emotion. Let some of the anger--the VALID anger--cool in the background, if only for the sake of productive discourse. Otherwise, the target audience will just shut down to your ideas and attack, attack, attack, every time.

All in all, thanks for bringing this matter to the table.
110
&106. The first sentence of your post is an excellent example of a thought-terminating cliche. You are a science-denying brainwashed cultist fanatic.
111
Addendum for the author (upon review of "Thank You, Susanswerphone"):

Of course, you've gotta let some people just go off on their own (unless, of course, they put their hands on you--then it's a new day entirely). And, as you go through your day, you must remember that your life's primary objective is not to prove your value to those who sit high atop Mount Olympus and pass out judgment. Our only primary objective as human beings is to produce good things and enrich our OWN lives...not topass muster with those who already have their minds made up. To work towards such is ABSOLUTELY a fool's quest.

Good luck...it's a jungle out there!
112
After having a bunch of sheltered university professors and other naive "progressives" tell me over and over that I'm automatically racist just because I'm white, I finally gave in and agreed and decided to be a racist in thought and deed. Boy did that ever feel good! So liberating!

Throw off the shackles of your religion-induced white guilt. Rise up and acknowledge the greatness of yourself and of white western civilization. Quit being such s weak wimpy brainwashed cultist. You are wasting your time helping to create a future in which it is much more likely that you or one of your loved ones will be violently attacked by blacks.

Wake up. Become one of those who can SEE.

Be strong and help save our culture and our race from these civilization-destroying "progressive" Pollyanna dipshits!
113
@107. Wow, that's so nice of you pat your neighbors on the head like that...you condescending fuck. "Black society" is a reflection of society as a whole, it is a reflection of how "White society" treats "Black society". The problems within the black community do not occur in a vacuum....seriously, why am I wasting my time on you..You know what, go ahead, feel superior, keep your mindset, I don't give a shit....god, your grand-kids are going to hate you sooooo much.
116
re:104/105
You pretty much follow me, I'd say, but I absolutely would not confine any of these observations to African-American culture alone. America is full of prisoners, though, and drug violations notwithstanding, I'll bet a lot of these guys spend time in prison bragging about how sternly disciplined he was growing up. It's a macho way of dealing with it that we do on the "outside", too. People point to the toughness of their upbringing as a point of pride, possibly more so in some cultures than others?
To clarify, I was using Precious as a form of hyperbolic shorthand for so-called tough parenting gone wrong, not incest (whoops!mybad). Of course that film wouldn't really be a conscious model for any parent, but it was honestly one of the only works of art I've encountered where abusive family life was so starkly portrayed by black actors/creators.
All of which is way off topic, but so many others here (esp trolls) are preoccupied by crime statistics.
117
http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2011…

Laura Wood, The Thinking Housewife, June 21, 2011

{snip}

Josaphine writes:

I am white, 42, and married to a black man. My husband is a fine art painter by trade, and a corporate accounts manager by day. We are celebrating our 16th wedding anniversary this year. We met in college in 1988 and married in 1995. After I earned a master’s degree, we married and had three children and moved to a midwestern city. My oldest daughter is 14, and I have been a homemaker and homeschooling parent since her birth.

My husband and I are former lunatic liberals. We promoted multiculturalism, the arts and diversity, and we have been involved in our neighborhood association, “urban renewal,” and the urban homesteading movement in our city. We always thought our interracial relationship was progressive. After marriage we associated with a local group of liberals who dug up their yards to plant food, composted, built rain barrels, breastfed their babies, practiced attachment parenting, planned community gardens, used clotheslines, etc. We did these things too, and in our liberalism, we felt very progressive. We were very popular with our white liberal friends because we were the token interracial couple.

{snip}

Things have not worked out as planned.

Living in a mostly black neighborhood has cast a very harsh light on black culture for me. All of my liberal illusions have been shattered. I have realized how much hatred and anger blacks have for white people. I have lost so much hope and innocence just by living here for nine years. I often feel that I have been beaten over the head with a big stick. I have read so much about HBD (Human Biodiversity), race, black culture, white culture, white nationalism, and other topics that I had never even known about. I have struggled to have a voice, and to use it without choking up.

We have never experienced white racism as a couple, only intolerance from blacks.

{snip}

Several incidents have contributed to my racial awakening.

I once received a call from an older black woman who had at some point been an associate of my husband’s in the arts. They were working on an artist grant program together. She was trying to locate my husband so that she could return a portfolio of his work that she had borrowed a few years back. I told her that she could dispose of the items, that he did not need them. She became offended by this, and mentioned that she could tell that I was white by my “accent,” and that she did not trust me to make that decision FOR my husband (I often work as his office assistant in the sale of his paintings). She demanded to speak with him personally. This black woman continued to tell me that she was a black poetess, and very knowledgable of the “black experience,” and that she did not approve of interracial relationships. She said that her son had married a white woman and that there were children “produced” in the marriage and she could never bond with them. They were not authentically black to her. She asked me if I was going to teach my children about their black heritage. I realized at that moment that I was absolutely not going to teach my children to identify with a sub-culture that was filled with criminality, lies, illegitimacy, and a legacy of slavery and victimology. American black culture today is nothing to be proud of and we should all denounce it and demand assimilation.

{snip}