Pullout Jun 22, 2011 at 4:00 am

Just Because You Belong to Another Minority Group Doesn’t Mean You’re Not Racist

Comments

121
@46, and anyone who has made a similar comment, I''m sorry you experienced what you did, in @46's case as a white person in the south. But the discrimination you're talking about has to do with going to a particular place and experiencing blatant hatred because you're white. But racism isn't always overt. Discrimination, and I think you can agree with this as a woman, is often discreet and usually the person doing it doesn't even know they are doing it. Minorities can experience this EVERYWHERE they go. Down south, up north, east, west it doesn't matter. And if that minority is also a woman... well I think you can understand how that could compound the issue.

So you're wrong (and you're not the only one on here). It's not necessarily a sense of entitlement that drives people to speak out against this. You should always speak out when someone has hurt you, especially when done so systematically, which is what we're really talking about here. And although I think I am too a stronger person for my personal experiences good or bad, I don't think we should ever be complacent with any "ism" whether obvious or hidden.

Also, anyone who has commented that someone white can't be racist because they live in certain parts of Africa is ignorant (literally you don't know what you're talking about).

Anyone who commented "Yeah, so you got problems, but here's why it's not that bad... me, me, me!" You need to stop. Really not a competition. The negative experiences in your life do not negate the author's, nor does it negate the author's feelings or criticisms.
122
#119 so all white people need to apologize for having white privilege and then "don't do it again"? Sorry I'm white. Am I good now? No? I still have it? Now what! Again? "Sorry I'm white!" Is it still there? Shit!!! "I'M SORRY I'M WHITE!" I said I was sorry! How do I "don't do it again"?
123
@98 "I repeat, I am not telling you to fuck off and die...right now...right this second...in an incredibly painful and humiliating way."

Perfect.

"Instead, I am going to go the surely pointless route of trying to reason with you."

How you flatter yourself. I would listen to you why?

"What is it about black people that makes them so "destructive" to the moral fabric of this great nation?"

Culture. What does it say about your culture that a black person who gets an education and speaks proper English is a 'sell-out', to be looked down upon by fellow blacks? Dog fighting, pimping, the failure of "baby daddys" to give a fuck about their own flesh and blood, etc. Whitey didn't do these things to your people. Your people did these things to themselves. What white injustice has caused your men to abandon their children? I'd love to hear your justification for that.

"(we like to stab things)"

Crime statistics back you up.

"there must be some external force causing black people to "act out" in this way"

Whitey! Whitey! Whitey! You're mere puppets on our strings. I myself forced 3,281 black men to abandon their children last year alone.

"(we like bullets)"

See above.

"the environment of the black community CAN ONLY be a product of the larger environment of this (mostly white) country...that's just fucking science."

You crack me up. Whitey made you think pimp is a valid career choice. Whitey told you to foster a culture where education is not important. Whitey made you sprinkle bastards about the countryside like so many daisys. Hilarious.

"If we accept that the color of your skin does not DIRECTLY determine your behavior then we must accept that the negative aspects of the black community CAN ONLY be aspects that were primarily imposed upon it by the atmosphere that envelopes it...this is the only thing that makes sense."

To you perhaps. But not to a thinking person. Black culture is toxic. It was created by you. Stop trying to shift blame. Take responsibility and begin to cure your ills.

"PLEASE FUCK OFF AND DIE NOW!"

That's so sweet.

Look, I know that in the black/rap world I'm just a bitch/ho, but I've spent 50 years coming to my current beliefs. In the 70's I was a big supporter of civil rights for all. But then came the 80's, with their gangs, crack, black crime, rap, etc. My views changed. I began to see what the southern man had been talking about for the past many years.

Just my opinion. Don't care if it offends.

124
Wow, more trolls in these comments then on a secretary's desk in the 90's.

Great job, Solomon. Most of these people probably didn't read beyond the first sentence. Also, for those complaining about snark:

A. He's a stand up comic.

B. You are reading The Stranger.
125
Oh jeeze. I think it's articles like these which only widen the gap between sincerely well-meaning, non-racist white people and quote unquote minorities... because these types of articles make it sound like every white person is guilty of racism, or perpetuating racism, or not doing enough somehow unless we are militantly picketing. All because of being born white...

Fuck that shit. I'm doing my part by not being a racist and not tolerating racist comments in my presence. And if people use the excuse of voting for Obama or having friends who are [insert minority], it is not further racism, it is usually a (somewhat misguided) attempt to demonstrate to the interlocutor that they, in fact, do not view people of a different race as less capable or worse.

When I see articles like these, whether attacking people for racism or sexism or whatever, all I can think is: grow the f**k up. Acting high and mighty, adopting an angry, self-righteous tone about racism and alienating potential supporters will get you nowhere. Because believe it or not, for many white people being called a racist is extremely hurtful. We would never want to come across that way.
127
Dear death makes some of us happy (@107),
50 years "coming to a belief" does not give any validation to your racist self-justification. Obviously you are not a sociologist, so have had no opportunity to delve into the structural, political, and economic foundations of the 'black crime wave' of the 80's. And I don't expect you to. But rest assured that you are mistaking the symptoms for the cause, and clearly have given up on being part any cure.
You are not so much offensive as sad.
Enjoy your beliefs. May they bring you the comfort of self-righteous superiority.
128
Also, Ahamefule J. Oluo (@98)
Thank you for your well-reasoned response. While it probably won't convince anyone who as spent '50 years coming to a belief' (which I read as '50 years reinforcing my prejudices'), it provides some great arguments for those who are perhaps just ignorant and willing to learn.
129
@123, let me just ask you, why did you feel the need to write your original comment? What was your motivation? Did you feel the need to make sure people knew it was ok to treat individuals poorly purely because of their race? Do you think you are helping to make the world better with your statements? I'm done disputing your absolutely insane and ignorant "reasoning", you are clearly beyond hope but luckily you are old and you will die soon. I just want to know why you felt your comments contributed anything to this conversation or the world as a whole...or is it possible that you are just a sad human being that, upon assessing the depressing mess that is their existence, looks for any excuse to make themselves feel superior to others??? I THINK WE HAVE A WINNER. I'm sure that will make you very happy in your few remaining years.
130
@129 In response to the writer's (and early commenters) Angry Black Man tirade; his idea that gay people should somehow be immune from racist thoughts. My response was yes, of course most white people are racist. My point was that we have every reason to be. What was so difficult for you to understand about that?

I have to go to work now. Someone has to pay taxes to support all of those fatherless black children.

Stay out of jail while I'm gone! And for fuck's sake, pull up your pants. I'm so sick of having to see black men's underpants.

132
@87 Can I come live in your universe? White heterosexual men are not free from unthinking automatic prejuidice. It is just those prejuidicial assumptions don't have as much impact on their lives.

Of course, the subtle racism and sexism of the rest of your post is funny.

A white man going into a neighborhood where he is unwelcome either as a visitor or as a new resident have no negative assumptions made about him? Do you really think that white people are held up on that high of a pedastal? Are the concerns possibly different? Sure, but that doesn't mean that the people in that neighborhood don't have their own preconceived assumption nor that those assumptions are positive or friendly.

I've got bad news for you, it is likely that there are women out there spreading stories about those times you were a drunken jerk as warnings to other women about men. I know that I've heard enough of those stories from the women in my life.

There is this discounting of the negative thoughts of people toward you because they are not white males, and you are, that seems funny (as in odd, not ha ha) to me. Why do you assume that you are not being veiwed negatively because you are a white male?
133
Can't love this enough
135
There are no such thing as "races".

I am not saying there is no such thing as "rascism". It is an unfortunate and terrible social problem.

Races were/are arbitrary labelings created to oppress and control (rascism) that have lasting effects to this day. Judging someone on thier phenotype makes Zero logical sense. I think it is problematic to continue to say there are different races becuase this creates a clear line between people thus perpetuating prejuduce.

Why does no one ever challange this point?

The creation of "races" was arbitrary. If tou want to argue gentics-Fact: there is more genetic difference between people that come from the same part of the world then there is people that come from different parts.

Do we judge people on blood type? Or eye color? Or how hairy their chests are? Seems silly right? Well it is the same thing.
136
"Being gay is not a race" Neither is having dark skin, or light skin.

I am challenging the idea of "races".

I am not saying there is no such thing as "rascism". It is an unfortunate and terrible social problem.

Races were/are arbitrary labelings created to oppress and control (rascism) that have lasting effects to this day. Judging someone on thier phenotype makes Zero logical sense. I think it is problematic to continue to say there are different races becuase this creates a clear line between people thus perpetuating prejuduce.

Why does no one ever challange this point?

The creation of "races" was arbitrary. If you want to argue gentics, Fact: there is more genetic difference between people that come from the same part of the world then there is people that come from different parts. Meaning you are more similar to someone who does not have the same skin color as you then you are with someone who has the same skin color.

Do we judge people on blood type? Or eye color? Or how hairy their chests are? Seems silly right? Well it is the same thing.
139
I get it, based on your premise that although a Caucasian Gay person is a minority they are bestowed (due to white skin) Caucasian Privilege -albeit about two seconds until it is realized that they are Gay, then all bets are off.

Making racist comments, and being a racist are not the same thing. I have been accused of being a racist, and making racist statements. It seems the default accusation these days when engaging in a discussion of Race, and the other side does not agree with your opinion.

So, the Negro is oppressed every day of their life -you are oppressed every day of your life. What was that you had stated, oh, that you are 'victimized'. Victimization is a self-inflicted crime that you perpetrate against yourself. Get over it, the Negro is not the only oppressed individual in America.

Sylvia's Seattle
140
@122 - I didn't say apologize for being white. Good job for being purposely obtuse. If you say something offensive be prepared to be called out on it, apologize and don't do it again. Is that clear enough for you?
141
So let me get this straight. You make wild assumptions about your entire audience, accuse them of being racists, ask them to disprove your vile assertion, and then ask them to sympathize with you. Good luck with that, dipshit.
142
So let me get this straight. You make wild assumptions about your entire audience, accuse them of being racists, ask them to disprove your vile assertion (impossible, apparently), and then ask them to sympathize with you. Good luck with that, dipshit
144
I have a question for the writer: if a black guy says something profoundly racist, then you call him on it, how would you react if his answer is "I can't be racist, I'm black"? (from personal experience)
145
@6: "Even if our goal is to be as non-racist as possible, we're still white people (often men) who benefit from all that privilege and can only work as hard as possible to fight against it."
So no matter how my parents raised me, no matter how I live my life, because I'm white and male I will always be racist? Really? Hmm... explain to me how THAT concept is not racist in and of itself. Is it because white males are the majority in this country? Doesn't this mean that all black men are sexist against black women in any society where they are the majority? And what about if Seattle has more black men than jewish men? All black men must be anti-semites.
Fail.
146
@143: Dude, seriously, you are spending way too much time trying to prove your point. Rape and pillage has no race, it's been done by every society at some point.
147
@SOLOMON GEORGIO: I'm white and I'm gay, but I never thought for a minute that it makes me incapable of racism. Racism is something that is in all humans at the genetic level. It is fear of the different. It comes from a time when we were microbes and when you bumped up against something different it was probably eat-or-be-eaten. That is why some people who are educated to the idea that racism is wrong try to teach their kids what they learned from their parents, that racism is wrong and to work against it. You are right, being gay is not a pass on the racism card. And being black is not a pass on the homophobe card. Especially the self hating homophobe card. Thus you have the "down-low". But don't worry, I"m not saying that ALL black men who are also gay are self hating homophobes.

And I love the circular logic here: White people are racist and if you call them racist they will get offended, thus all these white people getting offended on this message board proves they are racist. That's really sad.

All humans are afraid of the "different" on a genetic level, it's what we used to survive the climb up the evolutionary ladder. Take away all the white people and non-white people will find a way to differentiate amongst themselves and hate each other because of it. Take away all the white people and you have Tutsi-Hutu genocide. Take away all the black people and you have the Irish Catholics and the Irish Protestants killing each other. Or Germans killing Jews. Asian countries have been hating and killing each other for generations. The only thing that has moved us forward has been people working together despite all of this. Not punching each other in the face.

And in the end I also acknowledge that this is a Stranger article and thus its true purpose is to stir people up and be as controversial as possible. I can picture it at the Stranger home office:

"See Dan? Look at all those people fighting and hating on each other, call each other names! I sure stirred up some shit! It's edgy!"

"Good job Solomon! Keep 'em coming! There's a spot for you on the Stranger editorial board some day."

I guess they win since I read the article. But I still feel cheated.
148
Perhaps the author of this piece should look at the photo of the only democrat of vote against gay marriage in NY.
149
correction "to vote"
150
Knowing that America is perceived as a "racist" nation, despite subsidizing the complete destruction of Detroit, Birmingham, Atlanta, Newark, Baltimore, Cleveland, St. Louis and Los Angeles - not to mention the fact that every person in the world would immigrate here if possible - all you can do is ruefully smile.
151
@12/14
You're right about not being able to help your skin color. The thing about "white privilege" is basically that a lot of what is considered normal and acceptable from within that schema is created/benefits by harming or oppressing others. At the end of the day it's also harmful to you - it also limits your options and oppresses you in a number of ways and there's really not enough space to go into THAT whole thing. If you read up on the idea of how the patriarchy also harms men, you'll have the knack of it.
When people talk about the intersection of whiteness and white privilege, it's my impression that the discussion centers around recognizing how harming/oppressing others is normalized by the system, and learning to combat that.
I'd recommend resources but I'm a lot more familiar with feminist theory to name off-hand, but they're very related (functionally identical, in my opinion) theories. Perhaps someone else can recommend some explanatory reading material that focuses more on race.
152
@ 150 - Speaking as a non-American: I know absolutely no one who would emigrate to the States if they could.

You have a pretty exagerated view of your country's reputation in the world. You should travel a bit. It's supposed to broaden the mind.
153
@144 What was your response?

@ 46 Sorry that it's not about white women this time?
154

Responding to the articule by sections: 'I am gay,how could i be racist'?:ever hear of the anime 'afro samurai'?...'ihave a good friend that is (insert ethnicity)':dude,seriously,wake up and look around you!!! every minorty has friends that help friends out...what is considered offencive to you may not be to others...(example:if you don't like 'the lion king' watch 'kimbala the white lion' instead)...'but i voted for obama.':ever since george washinton to obama,whites have had a chance to behead all blacks...look niggat or fagger,think you could be the next prez...'get over it.'I WILL 'KILL YOU' IF YOU EVEN THINK OF ASSALTING ME,AND I WILL NOT STOP UNTILL YOU ARE DEAD,NO MATTER WHO INTERFERES,SO.DO NOT TRY IT!!! NOW, GET THIS THEN:ever since mankind was created we have been under someones rule,be it a person,place,or thing..so WTF is you point?...'okay.i'm out of excuses.what should i really do?':FOR WHAT? TELLING THE TRUTH? (cont...)
155
i think this articule is just double standered horse shit this paper dreams up,who REALLY gives a dam about what race you are? AS FAR A I'M CONCERNED,you can be a alien from space and be gay...would you be racest then?
156
OK, if anyone wants to get serious about white privileged, what that means and how it works, this is the best article I've ever read regarding:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0504…

"there's no GI Bill today. The more recent government programs open to people of color, such as welfare and Food Stamps, have been tiny compared with the vast assets conferred on whites by the Homestead Acts and the GI Bill. And these recent programs have only helped with immediate living expenses, not college, home ownership, or other assets that provide security for coming generations. People of color have recently become homeowners in greater numbers thanks mostly to their own savings, without the kind of substantial government assistance that white families got in the 1950s and 1960s.

Government boosts for white people were invisible to my father. He opposed government hand-outs as destroying incentives to strive, without considering the hand-outs his family had received."
157
I should add, that is just addressing white privileged on a historical, institutional level.

It doesn't address being followed around Macy's by a security guard because you have more melanin in your skin...
158
this article is talking to the white gay racist out there, rather then saying every white gay person is racist, right? If I'm wrong and the author is saying the latter, that's the most outrageous thing I've read in a long long time, and he should be held to account.
159
@87 - very insightful.

What can we do about it? Because apart from the obvious trolls, I think most readers here are not the ones who cross the street.

Silvio Levy
160
Wow, so many defensive white people. Methinks thou dost protest too much. Obviously this got the Stormfront types' frothing at the mouth.

As a white guy who's dated black men (and is married to an absolutely incredible one), if you're white, you really don't see the 1000 cuts because you're white - that's part of the white privilege right there. I've seen people do shit to my man that they'd never do to me or wouldn't have done it if they'd known I'd been paying attention.

If after reading this, your first reaction was "This isn't me, it can't be me, the poster is a racist!" instead of "Well huh, maybe I should learn more about what would make someone feel this way and what I can do to stop it" you're part of the problem.

To Susanswerphone and "death makes some of us happy," besides being utterly loathesome human beings, it's obvious you want black cock and feel a deep, deep shame for it. Also, I hope that for karmic balance that the voting disenfranchisement bullshit going on bites you in the ass and you're either prevented from voting or your vote doesn't count. May you never breed, or if you do, your children grow up to despise you.
161
P.S> Solomon, this article was awesome. It can't be easy to stomach the bile that was generated in the comment threads, but that's what happens when you speak truth and people can't allow themselves to hear it. Thank you again.
162
"Being in one minority group doesn't excuse being insensitive to another minority group."

Now that is a great thesis sentence.

Thanx

163
@160

"To Susanswerphone and "death makes some of us happy," besides being utterly loathesome human beings, it's obvious you want black cock and feel a deep, deep shame for it."

Ah, yes. That must be it. This shamelessly racist lesbian secretly desires black cock. So good to know.

"if you're white, you really don't see the 1000 cuts because you're white - that's part of the white privilege right there."

Care to get into a discussion over male privilege? The 1000 cuts that males will never see?

So given the fact that women have been oppressed since the beginning of time, why aren't prisons filled with us? Where are the female gangs terrorizing the populace? Hell, where are the Jewish gangs? No peoples have been more brutalized than they. Apparently it makes sense to some of you that black males commit so much of the crime in this country. After all, they're "victims" of oppression. Your theory would work if all recipients of oppression acted out in this way but they don't.

And no one has accepted my challenge of explaining what exactly it is about the oppression of the black male that has caused so many of them to abandon their own children. Waiting. Patiently waiting. With visions of black cock dancing through my head...
164
Some additional information for those who are interested:

This book, The Meaning of Difference, I found at a used book store. It addresses difference, prejudice, privilege and racism in a generally anecdotal way, without being too technical or wordy. It includes the essay 'Unpacking the Invisible Backpack', which is often used to describe privilege.

The Meaning of Difference: American Constructions of Race, Sex and Gender, Social Class, Sexual Orientation, and Disability

http://www.nymbp.org/reference/WhitePriv…

165
Oh, you're a lesbian! My apologies for the black cock comment then, but double my comment about you being loathesome.

You seem to be saying that all oppression is exactly the same and everyone is going to react to it exactly the same way. I call bullshit.
166
@163

Wait, you're a lesbian and you think that black men are the only ones who wear sagging pants?!

What little credibility you ever had is now completely shot. Do you even know any lesbians?
167
@165

Again we must visit this basic premise - that gay people are somehow immune from having strong negative feelings about a group of people. I don't understand the logic.

Second only to christians, black people are gays biggest enemies. They openly fight against our rights (everyone remember what happened to Prop 8 when all the blacks came out to vote for Obama?). Tracy Morgan's recent comments are but the latest in a loooooong line of anti-gay rhetoric from the black community.

So, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's perfectly acceptable for one minority group (blacks) to hate another (gays), but it's a capital sin for one minority group (gays) to hate another (blacks). Someone very intelligent, and very persuasive is going to have to come along and explain that one to me. I call big bullshit on that.

Add this to all of the social behavior complaints I've made on this thread and do you really not understand why I don't get the idea that gays can't have strong negative feeling towards blacks?

I can't speak for gay men, having never been one, but as a lesbian, 99% of the verbal harassment I've been subjected to has come from black men. Black men are not okay with lesbianism. Don't know the whys of it, just know that it's been not only my experience, but that of most other lesbians I've talked to on the matter. But I'm supposed to have unconditional positive regard for blacks because they're a fellow minority? How does that work in your head?

And from the last part of your second sentence I gather you think lesbians are especially immune to racist thoughts/feelings. Seriously?! I have dated exactly ONE woman who wasn't hugely racist. Ask your lesbian friends how black men treat them. Then have a couple of drinks with them. Once they let their guard down they might tell you how they really feel. It's a dirty secret we share only amongst ourselves. Sorry to burst bubbles!
168
@ 166

That was funny. Touche!
169
@166

(this might double post)

That was funny. Touche!
170
@167, let me ask you one last question, I just want to make sure I understand your logic. I am a black man, I am a single father, I have had custody of my children since their mother and I divorced 6 years ago. She is white, she went years without seeing them and never paid a cent in child support. I have never been convicted of a crime in my life. I grew up poor, in the "black community", got a full scholarship to an elite private college and pay taxes every year... Now, If I understand correctly, you feel like I deserve to be hated because I happen to be black...I personally deserve to be despised as an individual human being?
171
@170

You absolutely do not deserve to be despised.

I should probably use disclaimers whenever I speak in generalities but I don't. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. Hell, there are even a few friendly lesbians in Seattle. But stereotypes, rules, etc, exist for a reason. They are very often true. It's a numbers game, really. Because there are so many blacks that fit the negative stereotype, the stereotype is strong.

Do christians hate me because I'm an 'afront' to their god? You betcha. Do I care? Of course not. People are free to think what they think. I'll get damn cranky when their thoughts turn into attempted legislation, but their thoughts? They're free to have them.

Seeming to go off topic here, please bear with me, you know how so many people make the case that non-radical muslims didn't/don't do enough rebuking of the radical element in their religion? That by staying silent they are/were giving tacit approval to the extremists? Many white people feel the same about blacks. Why don't you (blacks, collectively) rail against the misogyny and homophobia in rap music? Why don't you take to task all the absent black fathers? Why don't you take a strong stand against the sexual slavery perpetrated by black pimps, sexual slavery that often victimizes the black woman? Is modern-day slavery okay as long as it's just bitches/ho's being enslaved?

Did you happen to read the story on cnn yesterday about the three rival California gangs that have put aside their differences to come together in enterprise. They're now working as a single unit to maximize profits on their prostitution business. Read about these sex slaves. Read about their lives. Why aren't blacks up in arms about this?

When white people speak out against these things we're beaten with the "racist" stick. Obviously I don't think it's an insult, but most white people want to avoid that seemingly pejorative label so they are hesitant to speak out. But blacks should be speaking out. It's your community these young males are destroying.

Why can't blacks like yourself start a web site, or local paper, or whatever that drills home the notion that education is the key to getting out of poverty. That black women deserve your respect - they're not property to be pimped or abused. That pimping is neither glamorous nor moral. I have no idea what can be done to fix the problem of absent black fathers but do you have any ideas? If so, please let them be known.

Failure to take a stand against these things = tacit approval. Everyone is accountable. And not just blacks. Every non-black who raps along with songs that promote all of this hatred of gays/degradation of women/glamorization of the gangsta lifestyle is likewise part of the problem. This shit isn't cool. Please, black people who agree, SAY SO! Stand on the street corner and preach it if you have to but take a damn stand!

172
@167

So black people who voted for Obama caused Prop 8 to pass all by their lonesome and all the white (and hispanic and asian and...) people who did exactly the same thing are not a concern. Huh. I think you wanted a scapegoat and OH LOOK BLACK PEOPLE fits nicely into your narrative.

Also, do you have a website where you're railing against the beastie boys, the rolling stones, bob dylan, billy joel, and elton john for their misogynistic songs? Why aren't you taking a stand in rural West Virginia demanding that the people there get educated so that they can get out of poverty (because, you know, good education is so freely available to everyone everywhere)? Or is your concern only limited to those who do things you consider part of the immoral black lifestyle that is destroying this country? Because, at the end of the road, that's what it feels like.

Again we must visit this basic premise - that gay people are somehow immune from having strong negative feelings about a group of people. I don't understand the logic.

You're simplifying things - it's not just strong negative feelings about 'a group of people' it's having strong negative feelings about a group of people based on one immutable characteristic about them. Gays are told they're destroying society and the family all the time, so hearing that projected onto an entire group of people by gays just because of their race is loathesome.

And bringing this full circle, the writer of this article is doing something he believes in - taking a stand against racism in the gay community - and just because it's not the sort of thing you, a white lesbian, wish he, a black gay man, would take a stand on, you think it therefore negates his entire argument. To me however, your stand only validates it even more.

And that fits nicely into my narrative that you are a loathesome human being. I pity you. I don't care if you don't care about my pity for you, but holding onto all that hate to feel warm at night can't be good for your soul, however you want to define that.

I'm also not taking this experience with you and believing that all white people (or all lesbians!) think this way. I personally tend to think that being a traditional white southern male isn't good for society and I continue to hope that people reject wanting to be like that when they grow up. Hopefully you decide to reject it one day too.
173
@171
Allow me to play devil’s advocate for a moment. The VAST majority of the advances made in the realm of medical engineering, technological invention, financial entrepeneurship and political legislation in the past 200 years or so was achieved by men…that is indisputable. The vast majority of those men were married and their wives took care of the domestic duties, cooked, cleaned, raised children, etc. So, you could make an argument (again, devil’s advocate) that it for the benefit of the world that women stay in the kitchen so that their more capable male counterparts take care of running the world (I mean, if women were capable, wouldn’t they have done it? You’re not going to blame “the man” for this, are you?). You could argue that women deserve to be treated as subservient to men (again, I don’t believe any of this).
Continuing this FALSE argument, the majority of prostitutes are women, so I guess by your logic, you cant blame men for treating women like prostitutes…I mean, if women didn’t want to treated like prostitutes then maybe so many women shouldn’t be prostitutes. I mean, you are arguing that it is ok to hate black people because it’s a numbers game and a higher percentage of black people commit crimes…so clearly, it is ok to view all women as prostitutes because a much higher percentage of them are prostitutes compared to their male counterparts…it’s a numbers game, right?
AGAIN, EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID SO FAR IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT.
You and I know that none of that is true, there is no such thing as a more capable gender or race or ethnicity, people are people. You know that the historical and current 2nd class status of women (that is not my opinion of women, I am just acknowledging that is how they are treated by society as a whole) in this country is a RESULT of societal oppression, not a justification for it. You say that you ”hate black people” (verbatim), but that I, personally, do not deserve hatred…well here’s the thing, every black person is an individual person (crazy, huh?), just like every woman is a person…and because every black person also happens to be an individual person, they all deserve to be treated as such, to not be branded as this thing, this criminal, this deviant, before they have a chance to fulfill their potential. Of course you have a right to “hate black people”, but know, by doing so, you are making things worse, by advocating that viewpoint you are helping to continue a cycle.
How does equality happen? How does change happen? Lets take women for example, it takes strong women who stand up for their rights and lead by example, but that’s not enough. It also takes a shift in the mentality of our society, it takes everyone, men included, working to spread the OBVIOUS truth that women are not objects, women should not be the servants of men, women are equally capable and equally valuable…and the men that say “if women don’t want to be treated like whores, then they shouldn’t act like it” are an enemy of that progress, they are an enemy of making the world a better place.
It is the same situation for Black Americans, change certainly takes strong black people who stand up for their rights and lead by example (you said “start a website” or something…you realize there are thousands of websites made by black people aimed to make improvements in the black community, right?) , but again, that is not enough. It takes a simultaneous shift in the mentality of all Americans, including you, to push forward. So, of course you have a right to say you hate black people, but by doing so you are making a direct effort to inhibit progress and directly working to continue the issues that you are complaining about.
176
We'll never, ever get past this chicken vs egg argument. Blacks say they act the way they do because of how whites treat them. Whites say they treat blacks the way they do because of how blacks act. Stalemate.

172 & 173 fail to grasp that people should police their own. I know it's a lot harder than blaming someone else for your lot. Keep making your excuses for horrible behavior. It will keep your people down and that's just fine with me.

To the few black males that raise/support their own children, society appreciates it. It's your only saving grace.

177
@176 I will bring that up at the next black person meeting, you idiot. What you fail to grasp is that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about "police your own", there are no "kinds" of people, there are just people. You choose to segregate, you choose to make things worse, I try to make things better, maybe you can bring some of these issues up at your next "horrible human being" meeting. I'm doing my part, if you don't want to do yours, I don't care, you are a sad, pathetic excuse for a person and I am done with you.
178
@ 176,

Consider this yet another example of white privilege: your statements make you repugnant, however it would seem ludicrous to be openly dismissive of all Caucasians based on my experience with you.

I do acknowledge that malevolent feelings (racism, misogyny, homophobia) exist in individuals of all colors. I have this thread, and you need only look in the mirror for evidence of that.
179
@ "death makes some of us happy" I can understand ur screen name, you are so full of irrational judgements, hatred, and bitterness, it would only make sense that u would welcome death as a release from ur sorry existence. Your life makes lots of us sad.
180
@176 - K.

(And by "k" I mean "Fuck you, you loathesome cromag.")
181
@176 - actually, one more thing. You say "whites" in your pathetic screed but you stormfront types are the only ones who "believe" that. You don't speak for me and it sickens me when people like you lump me into you asinine ranting.

Next time, in place of "whites," use the word "I."
182
@#172 wait, Billy Joel is a misogynist? Isn't she a lesbian?
183
Wow, looks like this article did its job! Brought people together, fostered understanding, helped communities understand each other... Oh wait it did nothing like that. In fact it did just the opposite.

Wait, wait, I missed the point. The guy is a comedian. So this is a joke, right? It's supposed to be funny? Or maybe it's only funny if you're black?

NO! NO! NOW I GET IT! It's like performance art, except in blog form. See, instead of writing an article the guy skipped writing an article all together and just started with the trolling comments right off the bat. And it worked! Oh you got me sir, I totally fell for it. Look! I'm even commenting at over 180. Touche'
184
Great piece! I just want to direct people to this video by the always-amazing Jay Smooth:

http://www.illdoctrine.com/2008/07/how_t…

It's about how it's more productive to call people out on racist behavior than it is to call them racists. After all, we're all products of a racist society. I freely admit that I have at least a few ingrained racist responses to things. What makes me not a racist, I think, is that I know those responses are wrong both morally and factually, and I work to check them--and, ideally, eradicate them.
185
This is an unwinnable argument. It's much easier to accept and use the privilege than hang around negativie nancies hating me or themselves for it, and it pisses them off soooooo much more when you don't start or buy into the baiting.
186
What a pile of whiny bullshit. Minorities in this country need to stop being so damn sensitive. Racist terms. Words only have the power that you give them. I'm an equal opportunity hater and all my friends from whatever minority group don't mind if i use whatever slur relates to that group because they don't let those words bother them. Have a fucking spine.
187
Get over it. I acknowledge that as a member of multiple minority groups, you have a steeper slope to climb than the average Joe, but it has nothing to do with me. As a decent human being, I would help you out in any way I can to overcome your own obstacles in life, should you ask for it. However, I nor any white person I respect would, upon discovering this article, ever feel or act on a compulsion to verbally kiss your back side, as it seems you so desire for them to do.

As for the ancestry argument, why in the world would I apologize to you for what people I don't know did to people you don't know? I have a clean conscience on this matter, as should most modern decent whites. Why should white kindergartners be disciplined at school for saying that they're proud of their color, when their classmates are patted on the back for doing the same? If we're trying to do away with double standards (and it's a long an arduous process, as you are well aware), then doesn't that apply to every variety? I don't think you truly think so. I think you have a vendetta against white people. But let's pretend that you don't for a sec (I know you know how to do that). It really hurts your argument to sit here and say tell white people what they can't say while your bilious words are threatening to burn a hole through my computer monitor.

Your lumping together and stereotyping of whites, while not offensive to me, does constitute an absurd double standard that only serves to dissolve the ground that your already feeble argument stands on. Stop whining. Try being positive for a change. See if you don't get along better with white people and everybody else, for that matter. It's an interesting topic that I love to discuss, but I don't need to talk to you about my friends, the subtext of any comments I may make over the course of a day, or what minority groups I belong to. If you weren't a bigot, none of that would matter. I believe in affirmative action, I grew up in and spend time trying to resurrect a terribly impoverished neighborhood, and most of what I do is to help people.

So as a bleeding-heart democrat and someone who does actually want people to get along, I'd be remiss not to point out how divisive and bitter and misguided your column really is. You're telling people that they are acting like 13 year olds for speaking their mind and offending someone who is plainly easier to offend than the average person by some order of magnitude. That's not to say that you've never been subjected to actual racism, but, if this piece is any education, yours is hardly the barometer to go by. A 13 year old is very likely to tell everyone who disagrees with him (reasonable or not) to "Go fuck themselves". Know anyone else like that?

Have a good one.
188
Get over it. I acknowledge that as a member of multiple minority groups, you have a steeper slope to climb than the average Joe, but it has nothing to do with me. As a decent human being, I would help you out in any way I can to overcome your own obstacles in life, should you ask for it. However, I nor any white person I respect would, upon discovering this article, ever feel or act on a compulsion to verbally kiss your back side, as it seems you so desire for them to do.

As for the ancestry argument, why in the world would I apologize to you for what people I don't know did to people you don't know? I have a clean conscience on this matter, as should most modern decent whites. Why should white kindergartners be disciplined at school for saying that they're proud of their color, when their classmates are patted on the back for doing the same? If we're trying to do away with double standards (and it's a long an arduous process, as you are well aware), then doesn't that apply to every variety? I don't think you truly think so. I think you have a vendetta against white people. But let's pretend that you don't for a sec (I know you know how to do that). It really hurts your argument to sit here and say tell white people what they can't say while your bilious words are threatening to burn a hole through my computer monitor.

Your lumping together and stereotyping of whites, while not offensive to me, does constitute an absurd double standard that only serves to dissolve the ground that your already feeble argument stands on. Stop whining. Try being positive for a change. See if you don't get along better with white people and everybody else, for that matter. It's an interesting topic that I love to discuss, but I don't need to talk to you about my friends, the subtext of any comments I may make over the course of a day, or what minority groups I belong to. If you weren't a bigot, none of that would matter. I believe in affirmative action, I grew up in and spend time trying to resurrect a terribly impoverished neighborhood, and most of what I do is to help people.

So as a bleeding-heart democrat and someone who does actually want people to get along, I'd be remiss not to point out how divisive and bitter and misguided your column really is. You're telling people that they are acting like 13 year olds for speaking their mind and offending someone who is plainly easier to offend than the average person by some order of magnitude. That's not to say that you've never been subjected to actual racism, but, if this piece is any education, yours is hardly the barometer to go by. A 13 year old is very likely to tell everyone who disagrees with him (reasonable or not) to "Go fuck themselves". Know anyone else like that?

Have a good one.
189
*if this piece is any indication

sorry, brain fart.
190
#62: OK, here's one:

No white presidential candidate will ever be asked to PROVE he was born in this country.
191
#186 what an even BIGGER pile of bullshit. My fellow white people need to stop being so INsensitive. It's not as if anybody has to have the right to be a vicious, bigoted jerk just to express their opinions.
192
As long as hateful, petty dipshits like Mr. Georgio hold the bullhorn for progressivism, we'll continue to get nowhere. Thanks for nothing.
193
Wow. jkwoftw, you said what was on my mind and more. Only you left out the part where- according to the writer- if someone says something you don't like, you just punch them straight in their mouth hard enough to cause tooth loss. Violence is the answer! That's how I'm gonna solve my problems from now on, especially to teach people an ethics lesson.
194
Thanks for writing this! I've met a lot of gay white men who are racist and the fact that Dan Savage is racist and completely blamed black voters in the state of California for the passing of prop 8 is not only racist it's idiotic since like usual Dan Savage just runs his ass (mouth) without doing any research on a topic and wants to think and wish with magical thinking that whatever he writes and thinks to be true simply MUST be true.

Yes people who are not white or of other races can be racist as well. If you don't know that you've spent too much time around rich white gay men in the gay ghetto.
195
It's MADLIB TIME!

If it weren't for the fact that every time I say "Not every [insert minority category here] is [insert negative minority bias statement here]," I tend to hear "But you're a [insert minority category here], and you don't see that at all because you're [insert majority category here], and thus you're part of the problem not the solution," I'd be okay with this rant on how much those [insert minority category] people hate being the [insert metaphor of downtrodden and smacked-about people here].

I don't even bother with the conversation any longer, because if you intend to take up the mantle of [insert expertly oppressed minority here] and bemoan the fact that [ignorant / noncaring / actively oppressing majority] is trying to keep the [insert previous oppressed minority] in their place, there's not a chance that I can even convince you that not everyone in my shade of [religion / skin tone / sexuality / gender / priviledged racial group] is a [insert derogatory term that equates to puppy-raping bigot here].

No, quite honestly, I can do nothing to converse with you when you're up on your high horse about this [insert scatalogical reference] so when you demand that we open a dialogue about conflicts between [insert majority group here] and [insert minority group here] and bitch and moan about how six generations ago [insert majority group] relentlessly visited [insert heinous act and/or atrocity here] upon [insert minority group], it's not that I'm ignoring the [heinous act]s or the [other heinous act], it's just that you don't want to TALK. You want to make [insert majority group here] a demon that excuses all the [scatological reference] behavior that [insert minority group here] does as a justification or rationalization for WHY it occurs.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just someone who is a [scatological reference]headed [insert majority group][negative label], while you can wrap yourself in the flag of the expertly-oppressed [insert minority group] and point to my lack of interest in your self-centered rants, raves, and ego-centric [rude term for abrasively ignorant, socially awkward person with limited foresight and personal responsibility for one's actions] attitudes.

And on the other side of the dice, being a member of [Insert primary minority group here] AND being a member of [Insert primary minority group here] to use a [Online Roleplaying Game] reference, doesn't stack. It doesn't give you the right to claim more validity simply because you happen to be [insert minority group here] AND [insert other minority group here]. It sure as [scatological reference] doesn't mean you get to be a [excessively vocal] [irrationally behaviored individual] about it simply because you get to claim two or more badges on your belt of oppressed [insert identifying group here]s. You could be a [minority group 1], [minority group 2][minority group 3][minority group 4][minority group 5] with [minority group 6] sympathies and [minority group 7] background from [minority group 8] and it still wouldn't make your [English UK swear word] opinion more valid than someone who happens to be just a [Minority group 9]. If anything, assuming that your opinion is somehow MORE valuable because you're a [minority group 1-8] is probably doing more to create a breach of understanding. Nobody likes a [smarmy childhood suckup reference] who's smugly claiming to be more equal than others based solely on their [minority group] identity.

Isn't THAT the basic problem that surrounds [majority/minority conflict] relation theory in the first place?

In other words, you may have a legitimate [conflict of interest verging on problem] but your [scatological reference] toward [insert majority group here] has moved past defensive and into offensive tactics. You're no better than the [insert violently vitrolic individuals or groups] who [insert immoral / unethical evangelism tactics] against [insert oppressed minority] - you're just on the other side of the fence, screaming at the people of [insert majority group here] that they're all [highly inflammatory noun].

And in all honesty, if you truly think this is the way [insert majority group] sees you, perhaps it's not because they label all people of [insert minority group here] with the [insert bias statement], but rather that they see you cheerfully blasting away over and over again about how much of a bunch of [insert inflammatory houn here]s they are.

There's always going to be [inflammatory noun here] in the [insert majority here] but you really, REALLY need to stop adding more [opposing inflammatory noun] rhetoric as a "solution" to the issue at hand. It turns off your allies and it just further intends to reinforce the perspective of the [insert majority group] [inflammatory noun]s.

And by the way, many of [insert majority group here] DO have [insert minority group here] friends. But if you keep this [scatological reference] up, you'll probably find that your attitudes make those friends look at you and edge away from you, nodding and smiling and hoping like hell they next time they see you, you won't corner them with some [insert psychologically deranged organization] tracts.
196
Ahamefule J. Oluo:

Hi. I understand that this is random, but I'd really like to speak with you. I don't meet many people on a day to day basis who are particularly engaged in discussions about race beyond cheap, easy stereotypes. And certainly not people who are interested in analyzing the historical and sociological aspects that are implicit in racism.

I suppose the reason I'd like to talk to you is because you clearly are engaged, and I think it might help me organize my mind when it comes to the racism I struggle with as a white woman. And I'm tired of discussing racism with other white people (who I'm primarily surrounded by). I'd like to hear your thoughts because you and I have such different perspectives and upbringings (I grew up privileged in a "liberal/diverse" suburb of Chicago).

I just went through the back and forth between you and "death makes some of us happy." I think she's a dick, and I primarily agree with you, but she did (in a horribly offensive manner) raise some points that I can relate to. I was hoping you might be willing to have a constructive discussion about race with a stranger who tries really hard not to be an asshole.

If you are, my e-mail addy is headlock.betty@yahoo.com. Rather not do it over threads. Have a good night.
197
racist, blah blah blah, racist, blah blah blah, racist, blah blah blah. keep on tossing that out there because soon enough it will be so played as to lose any power it had and then where will you be? without your fearful ace in the hole i suspect. brace for the coming judgement based on...*gasp*...the content of your character and the outcomes of your actions! gonna be a rough day when the victim shit no longer resonates. then what you got? nothing comin' convict.
198
Good article, unsurprisingly dim comments. I am so used to seeing a steady stream of the same defensive, angry reactionary crap from homophobes and islamophobes who insist they aren't or are well justified in being so. And of course this stuff anytime someone starts an honest online discussion about racism.

I do think that in such articles it's helpful to distinguish between conscious, deliberate racism and the much more common unconscious, indeliberate racism of mental laziness and not bothering -- or seeing the need -- to deconstruct the lingering racism of our culture. Still the cluelessness of it all is a bit boggling.

Even more boggling to me is the utter lack of empathy. White gay men should understand from experience how straight people need to listen to queers and be educated about homophobia. Then doesn't it make sense that we need to listen to people of color and learn about racism? Yeah, being discriminated against SHOULD teach us about other kinds of discrimination, but the first lesson really needs to be: you're not me. you don't experience what I experience. if you really care about this you need to shut up, listen, and learn.

This should be obvious to Gay men who insist they aren't racist and are shocked, absolutely shocked at black homophobes. Yeah, baby, the shoe is often on the other foot and sometimes its a glittery pump in size 15.

There are SOME valid points of comparison between homophobia and racism, but mostly they are very different. The strategies for fighting them are much more similar, but that's largely because the gay rights movement learned so much and copied so much from the civil rights struggle. So if white homos ask, what did black folks ever do for us, the proper answer is: They taught us everything we know, so shut up, queen, and start looking at the unconscious racism you've internalized.
199
Hey, "I like to read"!
I like to read too.
Yes, there was and is quite a lot of warring, and not nice behavior between different African cultures. That is true! You do like to read!

The biggest problem with your argument, is that, although you like to read, you forgot that Africa is a continent, not a country!

Europe is a continent! And there has been a whole lot of warring there too! But (ignoring the Reformation) most of the warring is between people of different countries, which means, different languages, and cultures!

Same as the continent of Africa. Nobody ever claims that white people hate themselves because during WWII Germany attacked France. Or because the Nordic Vikings would rape and pillage the (Roman) British Isles. They are all Caucasian cultures, doing icky things to each other.

People from different African cultures, with different languages, and religions, and beliefs did have wars. And the winner of these wars did take prisoners, and used them as slaves. And they sold those slaves to the European slave trade. Because they were not from the same culture of people. Just like Caucasians have been cruel to other Caucasians, killing each other, raping the women, etc. Not nice behavior!

As a white woman, who ACTUALLY LIKES TO READ!, I have to always bring this up to people with your argument. Which usually makes those people STFU.
:D Keep reading, honey. Keep reading.
200
What a ridiculous piece of rabble-rousing drivel. My skin pigmentation has nothing to do with my character. It certainly doesn't make me a racist. Being offended by this article doesn't make me racist either.

The author comes off like a prejudiced, whiny tool. All different kinds of people encounter all kinds of bigotry and injustice.

I just don't get the point of this article, other than to be negative.
201
Wah, wah, wah, da’ po' po' black man!

You use very manipulative guilt tactics in your article- not to mention the violent threats and menacing (and deranged) outbursts (“I will give you a moment to collect your teeth now that I've punched you in the mouth. You got them all? Good. Now sit.”). Was that supposed to endear you to people? Was that supposed to be amusing? Well it wasn’t. And I might add that it adds to the impression people already have of blcks as being violent out of control Rottweiler’s. Your writing tactics are typical of the blck community- the more you cry foul the more you take (and take and take and take) from this country.

Yes, "Get over it". Nay, get the F'ck over it...

Until Blks can stop being their own worst enemy (violent crime, illegitimacy, STD's, low test scores, vandalism and crime in general) things are not gonna change. You are 12% of the population yet you make up the highest percentages in said violent crime, illegitimacy, STD's, low test scores, vandalism and crime in general…

P.S. The reason you are rejected by your fellow gay brethren may have nothing to do with your skin color but because you are a f'king whiny a$$hole. And after writing such a whiny, manipulative, "no one loves me cuz you're all racist' article, I doubt you will ever get a date here in Seattle again.
202
@ #3: Yeah, but ignorance is NOT innocence.
203
Yes, it's true, some gays are racists and some black guys are homophobes. But the patronizing tone of this entire piece is incredibly irritating. Just because some idiot gay guys have idiotic arguments about their bigotry doesn't mean gays en masse need a lecture. Let racist fuckheads be assholes. I think most intelligent gay guys are smart enough to pick through them and toss them out.
204
I'm a white guy and I've never ever ever used any of those excuses because I've never had to. And no, it's not because all my other racist white friends just think I'm a hoot when I make all my racist jokes. Fact is, I've never had to make excuses for racist things I've said because I just don't say them. And no, I'm not perfect, but I've been on the receiving end of racism, so I know better than to use that kind of language.

Every white person should live in Hawaii, arguably one of the more racists states in the union. What!?! Hawaii!?! Yes. I heard comments like "That stupid blonde" or "That fucking haole" or "Hey, round-eye" every single day I lived there for over four years. You get used to it, and maybe it's easier to take when you're white and liberal, thinking that its somehow some kind of payback for the generations of crap whites have heaped on every other ethnicity under the sun. But still, it's racism, and it's interesting to get it hurled at you. As a white guy, it makes you get a sense of how it might feel.

I don't think Solomon is saying that every white person who enjoys white privilege IS racist. He's saying that, when we bring race into the mix in a negative way in our conversations, that we are being racist, should apologize for it, and should learn not to do it again.

As a middle-class white gay guy, when given the chance, I've enjoyed living in lower-middle class black neighborhoods. No, it's not so that I can feel better about myself or superior to those around me. It's that I feel like the people there are more real and more like me than in traditionally white neighborhoods. Right now, I am living in one of the last black neighborhoods of San Francisco, where I'm once again a minority (as I was in Hawaii). I have a heightened awareness of issues that not just blacks, but poor blacks, have simply by glimpsing their struggles every day. Do I completely understand their plight? Of course not. Do I feel their pain? No, I don't. But can I see the effects that hundreds of years of racism has had on the psyche of a people? You bet. I see the Asians and whites in my neighborhood riding the train to work each day, leaving their unemployed, mostly black neighbors behind. I see environmental racism. I see lack of education, motivation, and stimulation, and only an smattering here and there being done about it.

That all said, I'd like to see a greater emphasis placed on breaking the 'poor me' cycle. Why with a black man as president do we not see more people in the poor black communities becoming inspired to get themselves out of poverty, off welfare, and stay out of jail? Maybe people look at Obama and say, 'see, a black man is in the top job and he's still being put down by the white man (Boehner et al) who resent him being there because he's black, so if he can't even do it, then why should I even try?

I say you should try so that there is yet another and another black man or woman (or person of color, for that matter) in a top job somewhere, making us all realize that when everyone's talents are fully realized, regardless of race, we all do better.
205
I find it somewhat amusing and also offensive that some White folks commenting find it so easy to disparage Black culture, while in some cases praising the "good" Hispanics and Asians. What is it that makes these people think that they have the natural right and capacity to evaluate other racial groups? What is the yardstick being used? Why is the White privilege inherent in these statements so easily embodied, and so invisible?

These kind of statements, perhaps naively, make me wonder whether the white commenters who have written them know very much about white people as a race. When whites are evaluated, do they pass the test of racial goodness? If so, why? Who made the yardstick that white people measure up to so well?

To add some weight to this argument, I will be more specific. To me, white-collar crime is atrocious; millions of dollars paid by the citizens are lost to favoritism, corrupt bidding processes, ridiculous bonuses, etc. Millions... billions of dollars. Dollars that could be used to save lives-- so we're talking, in a way, about statistical murder. Overwhelmingly, white-collar crime is committed by white people. They do not generally go to jail. Sometimes they get a slap on the wrist.

Yet the people who fill the jails are dark-skinned. Guilty of the crimes of the poor, almost invariably-- drug selling, theft, assault, being Black in public, drug possession; sometimes guilty of nothing at all. I'm not arguing for pure victimhood on the part of all Blacks who are incarcerated; but there is significant victimization.

Beyond white-collar crime, there is the huge contingent of white drug users who rely on Black/POC dealers, who also bear the burden of arrests and incarceration.

Lastly, growing up among poor white people (rural Maine, a racially homogenous place) I have never been all that impressed with white people's life choices. White people are pretty flawed, like every other race! If you haven't noticed this, you might try a little harder.
206
Greetings!

For much more on racism in predominantly white gay communities, see: http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexua…

Pierre
207
Greetings!

For much more on racism in predominantly white gay communities, see: http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexua…

Pierre
208
WOW...Get over it and yourself. The quicker you stop playing the victim the quicker you will GET OVER IT!
209
AS A NEGRO-MALE HOMOSEXUAL, IT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT CAUCASIAN-MALE HOMOSEXUALS ARE RACISTS. MANY CAUCASIAN-MALE HOMOSEXUALS ENJOY SEXUAL ACTIVITIES WITH NEGRO MALES, YET, THEY DO NOT WANT TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND NEGRO VALUES AND CULTURE. CAUCASIAN-MALE HOMOSEXUALS CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT THE WAYS IN WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED - STONEWALL, HARVEY MILK, MATTHEW SHEPHERD, HIV/AIDS, ETC. - BUT, THEY DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE DIFFICULTIES OF BEING A NEGRO MALE AND HOMOSEXUAL IN AMERICA. I DO NOT THINK CAUCASIAN-MALE HOMOSEXUALS WILL EVER VIEW NEGRO MALES AS BEING MORE THAN SEX TOYS.
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
210
AS A NEGRO-MALE HOMOSEXUAL, IT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE CAUCASIAN-MALE HOMOSEXUALS ARE RACISTS. MANY CAUCASIAN-MALES ENJOY HAVING SEX WITH NEGRO MALES, YET, THEY DO NOT WANT TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND NEGRO VALUES AND CULTURE. CAUCASIAN-MALE HOMOSEXUALS CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT THE WAYS THEY HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED - STONEWALL, HARVEY MILK, MATTHEW SHEPHERD, HIV/AIDS, ETC. - BUT, THEY DO NOT CARE TO HEAR ABOUT THE DIFFICULTIES OF BEING NEGRO MALE AND HOMOSEXUAL IN AMERICA. CAUCASIAN-MALE HOMOSEXUALS ONLY VIEW NEGRO MALES AS SEX TOYS.
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
211
"jakeaiden,"
THE "Pick a Bale of Cotton" SONG YOU MENTIONED DOES INDICATE RACISM. SOUTHERN-CAUCASIAN CULTURE (LIKE, THIS SONG REFERENCE) IS LINKED WITH RACISM BECAUSE IT WAS THE SOUTH, WHO WAS INSISTENT UPON KEEPING THE TRADITION OF SLAVERY (AND LATER, JIM CROW) ALIVE. THIS IS NOT IGNORANCE. SMALL CHILDREN PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE THINGS SAID BY THE ADULTS IN THEIR ENVIRONMENT - ESPECIALLY, THINGS SAID BY THEIR PARENTS. THEREFORE, RACIST VIEWS PASS ON FROM PARENT-TO-CHILD.
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
212
ONE POSITIVE THING TO COME FROM Barack Hussein Obama's ADMINISTRATION IS AN ONSLAUGHT OF ONLINE COMMENTARY ON RACE. AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN HAVING SEX WITH CAUCASIAN MALES FOR SEVERAL YEARS, I KNOW HOW TO SEPARATE THEIR "KKK-TENDENCIES" FROM THEIR SEX APPEAL. AS LONG AS, I AM NOT CALLED A "nigger" IN GENERAL, IT IS FINE FOR A CAUCASIAN MALE TO CALL ME "nigger" IN BED. WE ALL KNOW RACISM IS ALIVE. IT IS TIME FOR CAUCASIANS AND NEGROES TO OPENLY ENJOY EACH OTHER SEXUALLY AND LET WHAT HAPPENS "HAPPEN" WHEN WE GET OUT OF BED. AT FORTY-FIVE, I WANT TO HAVE "FUN" WITH A "white" MAN - FORGET THE REST.

CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
213
I CAME TO THIS SITE BECAUSE I WAS INTERESTED IN Solomon Georgio's ARTICLE ON, "Racist Queers." BECAUSE OF MY SEXUAL EXPERIENCES WITH CAUCASIAN MALES, I ASSUMED THE POINT OF THE ARTICLE WAS TO ADDRESS THE FEELINGS OF HURT EXPERIENCED BY MALE HOMOSEXUALS OF COLOR IN THEIR SOCIO-INTIMATE DEALINGS WITH CAUCASIAN MALES. SINCE Mr. Georgio IS SOME TYPE OF "COLORED" MALE - I AM STILL CONFUSED ABOUT WHICH TYPE - I ASSUMED THIS WAS A "COLORED-" HOMOSEXUAL SITE.

LATER, I FOUND OUT Mr. Georgio IS A WRITER FOR, "Stranger" - AN ONLINE PUBLICATION FOR (PRIMARILY) CAUCASIAN "gay" DEMOCRATS IN SEATTLE.

MY POINT IS, IT WAS A FUCKIN' "KICK-IN-THE-GUT" TO FIND OUT THIS SITE IS N-O-T A FORUM FOR HOMOSEXUALS OF COLOR WHO NEED A PLACE TO EXPRESS THEIR ANGER AGAINST CAUCASIAN HOMOSEXUALS. THERE ARE OTHER SITES WHICH DEAL WITH CAUCASIAN HOMOSEXUALS' USUAL OBSESSIONS - "gay" MARRIAGE, HIV/AIDS INITIATIVES, ETC.

I THOUGHT, "Racist Queers," WAS DIFFERENT.

CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

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