Slog Comments
Fight Flyer With Flyer
1
Without Divine there would be no RuPaul...no idea why I wanted to say that, just wanted it out there
4
Oh, man, my husband teaches for MCPS, and his mother, who is gay, did as well, in addition to founding and operating for many years a support group for gay teachers and students. This is incredibly disheartening, and surprising, given the liberal demographic of the county.
5
Parents and Friends of Ex-straights would be easily identified as a fake organization and the lawsuit would be rejected, and rightly so. It would be better to distribute flyers for an organization trying to raise funds to help people psychologically damaged by so-called "cure for homosexuality" programs.
7
In the Qunited States of Gommorica no one who strays from the Homosexual Agenda is allowed to participate in the public exchange of ideas.
All flyers, talk show guests and personal religious beliefs must be vetted by the HomoLiberal Thought Police before they may see the light of day.
Please make a note of it.......
All flyers, talk show guests and personal religious beliefs must be vetted by the HomoLiberal Thought Police before they may see the light of day.
Please make a note of it.......
8
Montgomery county schools, in a liberal part of Maryland, was basically forced into it by the law. I think many people would be glad for a non-profit to distribute real information, the Trevor Project for example.
11
Saint Edith of the Divine Nature, she is in my prayers for all the people struggling to deal with their life style choice of Heterosexuality. There is a better way, pray to Saint Edith for help and she will help you. You CAN turn away from the boring life style of the Heterosexual. I will pray for you. I hate your sin, but I love you as a sinner. Now let us all have a drink like Saint Edith does.
12
"unwanted same sex attractions"
Don't these groups understand that's contradictary? If you are attracted to something, you want it. It's the goddammed definition.
Don't these groups understand that's contradictary? If you are attracted to something, you want it. It's the goddammed definition.
13
In an ideal world, one without general bigotry toward gays, among other things, a group like PFOX could be entirely legitimate and supportable; that is, they would be there for the *tiny* percentage of people who are genuinely disturbed and upset by their same-sex attraction IN THE COMPLETE ABSENCE OF HOMOPHOBIA, i.e., there is none in their home or in society at large.
However, in the REAL world, something like PFOX is almost certain to be the most disingenuous, dishonest "support group" possible. It's like the Nazis creating a support group for interned Jews.
Could someone explain this to them? Here's the principal's email: James_G_Fernandez@mcpsmd.org
However, in the REAL world, something like PFOX is almost certain to be the most disingenuous, dishonest "support group" possible. It's like the Nazis creating a support group for interned Jews.
Could someone explain this to them? Here's the principal's email: James_G_Fernandez@mcpsmd.org
14
I have a GAY (note the emphasis on the word gay) friend who moved back home to a red state to "get his shit together" because he did a bit to much clubbing for a while there. Well, he didn't really stop going out...but he started dating a girl! It drives me absolutely crazy but I'm trying to be respectful and wait for him to come back out of the closet on his own. It is not easy.
16
The Advocate put some Georgia teenage "lesbian" on the cover as the Homosexual of the Year and within a year she was shacking up with her boyfriend popping out a baby.....
17
Montgomery County, MD resident here. The public schools do allow community groups to send flyers and advertisement for after-school activities home with the kids a few times a year, and they don't pick and choose which get sent. In the past, Metro DC PFLAG has countered with its own flyers denouncing reparative therapy. I wouldn't say that MCPS is endorsing PFOX's message; in fact, I think all flyers have to say that they do not represent the views of the schools.
18
@17, good to know.
Why not simply go examine PFOX and then write about it? Why not interview a few of those "ex-gays" and how successful their new heterosexual lifestyle is? How long they stay heterosexual, for instance -- in case PFOX has been around for some time? If the Truth Wins Out, one should be able to show what really is going on there.
Why not simply go examine PFOX and then write about it? Why not interview a few of those "ex-gays" and how successful their new heterosexual lifestyle is? How long they stay heterosexual, for instance -- in case PFOX has been around for some time? If the Truth Wins Out, one should be able to show what really is going on there.
19
This is a weird video, but it's a funny song by Sloppy Seconds, which is somehow homophobic but not really anti-gay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8H34aeL7…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8H34aeL7…
20
I think "PFOES" would be better -- it retains the "E" from "Ex-" at the same time that it kinda sorta makes the opposition to PFOX explicit...
21
IDA: Have you met any nice boys in the salon?
GATOR: They're all pretty nice.
IDA: I mean any nice queer boys. Do you fool with any of them?
GATOR: Aunt Ida, you know I dig women.
IDA: Aww, don't tell me that.
GATOR: Christ, let's not go through this again.
IDA: All those beauticians and you don't have any boy dates?
GATOR: I don't want any boy dates.
IDA: Oh honey, I"d be so happy if you'd [???]
GATOR: No way, I'm straight, I mean I like a lot of queers, but I don't dig their equipment, you know? I like women.
IDA: But you could change. Queers are just better. I'd be so proud if you was a fag, and had a nice beautician boyfriend. I'd never have to worry.
GATOR: There aint nothing to worry about.
IDA: I worry that you'll work in an office, have children, celebrate wedding anniversaries - the world of the heterosexual is a sick and boring life.
GATOR: Sometimes I think you're fucking crazy. I'm real happy, just the way I am.
IDA: Oh, let me bleach your hair. Let's go down the Wagon Wheel Bar. I know there's some nice boys there for you.
GATOR: You are fucking nuts Aunt Ida. I gotta get to work. Don't you worry about me, sex ain't no problem. See you after my last wash and set.
IDA: OK honey. Bye.
GATOR: They're all pretty nice.
IDA: I mean any nice queer boys. Do you fool with any of them?
GATOR: Aunt Ida, you know I dig women.
IDA: Aww, don't tell me that.
GATOR: Christ, let's not go through this again.
IDA: All those beauticians and you don't have any boy dates?
GATOR: I don't want any boy dates.
IDA: Oh honey, I"d be so happy if you'd [???]
GATOR: No way, I'm straight, I mean I like a lot of queers, but I don't dig their equipment, you know? I like women.
IDA: But you could change. Queers are just better. I'd be so proud if you was a fag, and had a nice beautician boyfriend. I'd never have to worry.
GATOR: There aint nothing to worry about.
IDA: I worry that you'll work in an office, have children, celebrate wedding anniversaries - the world of the heterosexual is a sick and boring life.
GATOR: Sometimes I think you're fucking crazy. I'm real happy, just the way I am.
IDA: Oh, let me bleach your hair. Let's go down the Wagon Wheel Bar. I know there's some nice boys there for you.
GATOR: You are fucking nuts Aunt Ida. I gotta get to work. Don't you worry about me, sex ain't no problem. See you after my last wash and set.
IDA: OK honey. Bye.
23
I live in the next county over from Montgomery County. It is pretty darn liberal for the mid-Atlantic region. Heck, Del Heather Mizeur, the lesbian who is leading the fight for marriage equality in Maryland, represents Montgomery County. I think this flyer is just the consequence of a really stupid rule that is going to be changed after this - I bet they'll decide to stop giving out flyers for any non-school-related groups.
24
You know, I looked back through the local news coverage, and I take back what I said. I'd forgotten that this drama has been going on for years.
By court order, if they give out flyers for one nonprofit, then they have to give out flyers from any nonprofit. I think that if that forces you to give out offensive crap like the PFOX stuff, then you should just stop giving out flyers for any group! But parents involved with other nonprofit groups (Girl Scouts, travel sports teams, etc) get really vocal because their group doesn't want to lose the ability to have their flyers distributed.
More background on this situation: along with an affiliated abstinence-only group, PFOX has been bothering the MoCo school system for years. They got a lot of publicity in 2005 when the county tried to revise the health class curriculums to include "information about human sexuality that promotes tolerance and understanding toward people regardless of sexual orientation." PFOX sued and somehow won - the county had to agree to a settlement with them, and to put several of them onto a committee to revise the curriculum. However, the tolerance folks on the committee far outnumbered the bigots, and the "Respect for Human Differences in Sexuality" curriculum was approved in 2007.
So even if county students are getting this sh** in their backpack once or twice a year, they're getting the right messages in health class, and they're regularly seeing parents and allies stand up for them in public meetings and on the editorial pages of local newspapers. So I think the forces of good are gradually winning.
By court order, if they give out flyers for one nonprofit, then they have to give out flyers from any nonprofit. I think that if that forces you to give out offensive crap like the PFOX stuff, then you should just stop giving out flyers for any group! But parents involved with other nonprofit groups (Girl Scouts, travel sports teams, etc) get really vocal because their group doesn't want to lose the ability to have their flyers distributed.
More background on this situation: along with an affiliated abstinence-only group, PFOX has been bothering the MoCo school system for years. They got a lot of publicity in 2005 when the county tried to revise the health class curriculums to include "information about human sexuality that promotes tolerance and understanding toward people regardless of sexual orientation." PFOX sued and somehow won - the county had to agree to a settlement with them, and to put several of them onto a committee to revise the curriculum. However, the tolerance folks on the committee far outnumbered the bigots, and the "Respect for Human Differences in Sexuality" curriculum was approved in 2007.
So even if county students are getting this sh** in their backpack once or twice a year, they're getting the right messages in health class, and they're regularly seeing parents and allies stand up for them in public meetings and on the editorial pages of local newspapers. So I think the forces of good are gradually winning.
25
@24 -- The first lawsuit was complicated by the fact that some of the secondary literature the original curriculum had referred to contained a list of religious denominations that were supportive of LGBT people. (I think it was contained in a brochure on resources for people who are coming out, and the MCPS folks didn't realize that was in there.) The lawsuit spun that into a claim that the county was promoting some religious views over others. The judge either granted PFOX a preliminary injunction or denied an early motion to dismiss -- largely because PFOX had articulated a legitimate legal theory, even if it was a stretch on the facts to call this a true endorsement of religion by MCPS. Ultimately MCPS decided to settle the case rather than fight it by -- as you said -- involving the nasties in the curriculum development process; however, the curriculum that resulted was actually very factual and pro-respect. PFOX and others tried to appeal to the State Board of Ed, which rejected their claims, and then sued in court again. This time the court shot them down pretty quickly. (I represented Metro DC PFLAG as an intervenor.)
26
@25 - thanks for the info, it's interesting to learn the actual details! And a big thank you for your work for PFLAG :)
27
Sadly, this has been going on in Montgomery County for several years, spearheaded by a board-appointed member of the Citizens Advisory Committee for Family Life and Human Development, Peter Sprigg, who is also affiliated with FRC, a hate group listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Other board members of PFOX include a representative of another listed hate group, Liberty Counsel. By all accounts, PFOX is the personal project of one woman with a gay son who desperately wishes her kid weren't gay. Metro DC PFLAG has recommended that the County policy be changed to disallow any nonprofit from sending home fliers, even though PFLAG uses the policy.
28
The PFOX flyer urges students to go to the PFOX website, where "therapies" are encouraged. But these therapies have been condemned as dangerous by every mainstream American medical and mental health professional organization, including the American Medical Association. There are things that can be done with the Montgomery County curriculum that will help students deal with the PFOX assertions. See http://metrodcpflag.wordpress.com/2012/0… Please read this and help.
David Fishback, Advocacy Chair.
Metro DC PFLAG.
David Fishback, Advocacy Chair.
Metro DC PFLAG.
29
As another person in the trenches in Montgomery County, please read Post 24. This attorney did a great job, and he lays out the history well.
Metro DC PFLAG has in the past and will in the future distribute flyers counteracting the misinformation from PFOX. We have worked for years to improve the school system's curriculum and to assure that accurate material is provided in the guidance offices, including materials from the American Psychological Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics.
The PFOX flyer urges students to go to the PFOX website, where "therapies" are encouraged. But these therapies have been condemned as dangerous by every mainstream American medical and mental health professional organization, including the American Medical Association.
There are things that can be done with the Montgomery County curriculum that will help students deal with the PFOX assertions. See http://metrodcpflag.wordpress.com/2012/ 02/08/its-about-more-than-just-fliers/ee Please read this link and help.
David Fishback, Advocacy Chair
Metro DC PFLAG
Metro DC PFLAG has in the past and will in the future distribute flyers counteracting the misinformation from PFOX. We have worked for years to improve the school system's curriculum and to assure that accurate material is provided in the guidance offices, including materials from the American Psychological Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics.
The PFOX flyer urges students to go to the PFOX website, where "therapies" are encouraged. But these therapies have been condemned as dangerous by every mainstream American medical and mental health professional organization, including the American Medical Association.
There are things that can be done with the Montgomery County curriculum that will help students deal with the PFOX assertions. See http://metrodcpflag.wordpress.com/2012/ 02/08/its-about-more-than-just-fliers/ee Please read this link and help.
David Fishback, Advocacy Chair
Metro DC PFLAG
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