Slog Comments
Hey, Gays: Don't Pull Up the Ladder After Gay Marriage—Trans People Are Right Behind You
1
Good on you Dom. We need to continue to teach LGBT people how to be and why to be politically active.
2
Thank you so much for giving attention to these issues and for recognizing the work Transgender Law Center does. Very grateful!
4
I'm happy the "T" is included in our initialism. An offense to a trans person is an offense to me. Same goes for "Q."
I'm sure I could do more. I honestly don't have a good handle on a prioritized list of rightable wrongs aside from the ones that directly affect my family. So many of the wrongs committed against our T and Q friends require a cultural transformation, which will happen slowly and incrementally.
And so it seems like the winnable legal battles like ENDA are an appropriate priority. And over time I think the fallout from the marriage equality battle will benefit all of society as more of our families coalesce with and transform mainstream culture.
Of course the battles for justice don't end with marriage equality. I think it's a very important battle for my family, but it's not the only one, or the last one.
I'm sure I could do more. I honestly don't have a good handle on a prioritized list of rightable wrongs aside from the ones that directly affect my family. So many of the wrongs committed against our T and Q friends require a cultural transformation, which will happen slowly and incrementally.
And so it seems like the winnable legal battles like ENDA are an appropriate priority. And over time I think the fallout from the marriage equality battle will benefit all of society as more of our families coalesce with and transform mainstream culture.
Of course the battles for justice don't end with marriage equality. I think it's a very important battle for my family, but it's not the only one, or the last one.
8
So true. Here in Canada, same sex marriage has been legal federally since 2005, and we're still fighting other battles. There are still those who would harass LGBTQ people out of ignorance and fear, and trans rights are still not where they aught to be. We're working on getting gender identity and expression added into our human rights act and charter of rights and freedoms. We got so close before the last election was called, and then we had to start over, now with a conservative majority government that's messing with all kinds of other, entirely seperate things as well. I feel like trans rights are really coming to the fore now though, and I'm proud to be able to be one of those people out there educating others. I am proud of my husband for bein strong enough to be himself, even when he knows there are people who may want to hurt him for it, and our laws don't specifically protect him like they protect me. Thanks for reminding everyone not to leave our trans brothers and sisters out in the cold. They have been such a part of every battle leading up to where we are now!
10
Dom, I totally agree.with everything you have said---in every way. Thankyou for acknowledging the struggle of transgendered Americans and myself (although not Transgendered,) would like to thank you for all your work on behalf of marriage equality. I have one concern that has been very tough for me, since I receive bigotry from both sides regarding this issue.
I think we can all agree that all Americans of age who love one another should be able to marry and maintain loving, committed, long term relationships---but when I make the obvious point that a minority of Americans, but studies do indicate that it is a much large minority than acknowledged, being of all political and religious views and not simply confined to people belonging to religious sects wearing Prairie dresses, are of Plural Orientation and still at the very beginning of our struggle, our marriage rights likely twenty years or more away.
At this time, those calling themselves Polyamorous generally state that they have "chosen" a great lifestyle for themselves and enjoy parties where they can meet other people who have "chosen" such lifestyles. They do not seem to be involved in any political struggle involving their own rights and did not help me with my discovery of who and how I love when I called upon them for counseling and support while coming out. I do not relate to this at all----loving who I love without being able to choose how or why I do so and certainly finding it inconvenient enough not to want to actually seek it out at parties. The men and women I know of plural orientation (which is to say LOVING rather than just dating more than one) if they have jobs or reputations or children they wish to keep, in general live in the same sort of hiding that gays once were forced to do, worried for the loss of those jobs and those children and those reputations and having not a thousand partners but perhaps two or three.
Because recognizing our rights is genuinely politically inconvenient for the gay community, in spite of our hard work on your behalf, we now experience political distance (in the case of Rep. Jamie Pedersen publicly professed political distance) from those for whom we toiled while thinking our struggles to be the same as yours. Even from those most involved in Polyamory groups others of us do not often feel that our experience is acknowledged for what it is: an orientation, not a choice---especially, apparently, in men (allele 334). So even people professing to be Poly often do not themselves acknowledge their own orientation or oppression but rather claim to have made a choice. A gay man two days ago told me that we should not be recognized because we practice child molestation (referring to the very small number of Fundamentalist LDS who were convicted of that while even the vast majority of them would never do so such a thing and not to the vast majority of plural Americans of all religions who also would not do so).
This is the exact same charge which was historically leveled against gays at the beginning of your struggle and whereas there were a higher percentage of straight child molesters than gay ones in reality, I might be willing to make a bet that there are a larger percentage of monogamous child molesters than plural ones---as far as their adult relationships go---married or single but yet abusing children.
Polyamorists, gay and straight, must recognize that not everyone can come to a party to meet others like themselves nor do they perhaps want to---this is not a social club, it is gender orientation and a loving family structure which has no marriage rights and is in hiding and deeply oppressed at this time. The monogamous gay community should not abandon those of us who take this very seriously as a political issue after we have toiled for you and thought this would be the beginning of our struggle, the great victory you have had, in spit of the struggles you must still face...and mainstream straights, please, please stop rolling your eyes worrying if the rights which gays have fought and won so dearly might lead to poly marriage as well and using that as an argument against the victory at hand. Yes, this victory, it is to be hoped, will in fact lead to poly marriage rights---and that's a good thing. Yes Dom, it is all the same struggle. GLBTP-P-P-P!
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I think we can all agree that all Americans of age who love one another should be able to marry and maintain loving, committed, long term relationships---but when I make the obvious point that a minority of Americans, but studies do indicate that it is a much large minority than acknowledged, being of all political and religious views and not simply confined to people belonging to religious sects wearing Prairie dresses, are of Plural Orientation and still at the very beginning of our struggle, our marriage rights likely twenty years or more away.
At this time, those calling themselves Polyamorous generally state that they have "chosen" a great lifestyle for themselves and enjoy parties where they can meet other people who have "chosen" such lifestyles. They do not seem to be involved in any political struggle involving their own rights and did not help me with my discovery of who and how I love when I called upon them for counseling and support while coming out. I do not relate to this at all----loving who I love without being able to choose how or why I do so and certainly finding it inconvenient enough not to want to actually seek it out at parties. The men and women I know of plural orientation (which is to say LOVING rather than just dating more than one) if they have jobs or reputations or children they wish to keep, in general live in the same sort of hiding that gays once were forced to do, worried for the loss of those jobs and those children and those reputations and having not a thousand partners but perhaps two or three.
Because recognizing our rights is genuinely politically inconvenient for the gay community, in spite of our hard work on your behalf, we now experience political distance (in the case of Rep. Jamie Pedersen publicly professed political distance) from those for whom we toiled while thinking our struggles to be the same as yours. Even from those most involved in Polyamory groups others of us do not often feel that our experience is acknowledged for what it is: an orientation, not a choice---especially, apparently, in men (allele 334). So even people professing to be Poly often do not themselves acknowledge their own orientation or oppression but rather claim to have made a choice. A gay man two days ago told me that we should not be recognized because we practice child molestation (referring to the very small number of Fundamentalist LDS who were convicted of that while even the vast majority of them would never do so such a thing and not to the vast majority of plural Americans of all religions who also would not do so).
This is the exact same charge which was historically leveled against gays at the beginning of your struggle and whereas there were a higher percentage of straight child molesters than gay ones in reality, I might be willing to make a bet that there are a larger percentage of monogamous child molesters than plural ones---as far as their adult relationships go---married or single but yet abusing children.
Polyamorists, gay and straight, must recognize that not everyone can come to a party to meet others like themselves nor do they perhaps want to---this is not a social club, it is gender orientation and a loving family structure which has no marriage rights and is in hiding and deeply oppressed at this time. The monogamous gay community should not abandon those of us who take this very seriously as a political issue after we have toiled for you and thought this would be the beginning of our struggle, the great victory you have had, in spit of the struggles you must still face...and mainstream straights, please, please stop rolling your eyes worrying if the rights which gays have fought and won so dearly might lead to poly marriage as well and using that as an argument against the victory at hand. Yes, this victory, it is to be hoped, will in fact lead to poly marriage rights---and that's a good thing. Yes Dom, it is all the same struggle. GLBTP-P-P-P!
11
The first statistics you cite from "Injustice at Every Turn" are missing a key piece of information: 78 percent of transgender people reported harassment, 35 percent reported physical assault, and 12 percent reported sexual violence in K-12 education. This is important information as discrimination in schools affects not only mental health outcomes (there was a strong correlation between suicidality and experiences of harassment in school), employment opportunities (15% left school due to the harassment), health outcomes (education is connected to employment which in turn is connected with access to health care), etc. Also I think it is important to know that these three percentages you reported are happening to youth who are at a vulnerable stage developmentally and thus these experiences can and do have lasting effects. This points to a need to educate educators and parents around the needs of trans* and gender non-conforming students as well as the need for more community based programs for trans* and gender non-conforming youth.
12
This isn't just about marriage. It's about equality. And, most definitely, the T is just as important as all those other wonderful initials we choose to use to describe ourselves. November will come and go, hopefully, with voting results going our way but we'll still need to work, work, work at rightfully getting, and just as importantly, KEEPING our rights. I heard Representative Sam Hunt state last night at a celebration gathering for passing WA's marriage equality bill, "Equality will beat hate every day!" Amen to that! With all of our continued and continuous support, we can make this a living and breathing reality.
13
What's the point? Doctors don't treat transgendered like people, so we die because of medical complications and they don't give a fuck. Normies don't care about transgendered people, unless the laws force them to. Gays bash TG all the fucking time, seems only the Bi's are decent people to the transgendered. So fuck y'all. I hope this bill fails.
14
KIttenKoder's post is exactly why few care about chix with stix..Lose your lousy attitude and get back to us...
16
Funny how people "fight for minorities" but only the minorities they give a shit about .... so ... where's the equality? Gay people don't care about equality, it's just a slogan for them to con you breeders into thinking that it's good for equal rights. Sorry, but no. From the inside, it's shit, pure and simple. All they care about is themselves. Just like everyone else. Anytime someone says they're all for minority protection, they have been lying. Period. You can't argue that. Because once they get rights, they say "fuck you" to everyone else. Look at a large number of black folks. Even some of the black folks in other countries can't stand how the US ones treat other people now.
Wish I had more examples, but gay and black people are the only ones I have witnessed first hand ... in all states of the continental US. Yeah, I've been in all the states.
Wish I had more examples, but gay and black people are the only ones I have witnessed first hand ... in all states of the continental US. Yeah, I've been in all the states.
17
KittenKoder wishes s/he had more examples... I'm still waiting for one. Sweeping bigoted generalizations that support your own miserable self image do not examples make. I don't think s/he would ever be happy or even wants to, except in the position of the eternal victim.
18
I'm not an expert on trans issues by any means, but I guess I have a few ideas for what we can do:
1) We can create a new state non-discrimination law for health care plans sold in WA state that requires them to cover all medically necessary coverage related to GID, according to the standards set by WPATH.
2) We can teach students the difference between sex and gender in sex ed, as well as the known science surrounding the causes of minority sexual orientations and gender identites, as a way to increase trans visibility and promote wider understanding of what it means to be trans.
3) We can reform building codes to require restrooms to be gender-neutral.
4) We can reform the process of seeking a legal change of gender in WA state so that it doesn't inherently pathologize trans identities by requiring a medical standard of proof for one's gender. (Which is quite strange, if you think about it, because gender is the only social identity one has to prove to the government with a doctor's note. No one ever goes to the EEOC and says, "i was discriminated against because of my religion, here's my doctor's note proving that i'm muslim...").
Whatever we decide to do, I'm all in for the fight!!!!
1) We can create a new state non-discrimination law for health care plans sold in WA state that requires them to cover all medically necessary coverage related to GID, according to the standards set by WPATH.
2) We can teach students the difference between sex and gender in sex ed, as well as the known science surrounding the causes of minority sexual orientations and gender identites, as a way to increase trans visibility and promote wider understanding of what it means to be trans.
3) We can reform building codes to require restrooms to be gender-neutral.
4) We can reform the process of seeking a legal change of gender in WA state so that it doesn't inherently pathologize trans identities by requiring a medical standard of proof for one's gender. (Which is quite strange, if you think about it, because gender is the only social identity one has to prove to the government with a doctor's note. No one ever goes to the EEOC and says, "i was discriminated against because of my religion, here's my doctor's note proving that i'm muslim...").
Whatever we decide to do, I'm all in for the fight!!!!
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