Slog Comments
"If these young women are being responsible and didn't have the sex to begin with, we wouldn't have this problem to begin with."
1
Why the god fearing bible belt has the highest incidence of teenage pregnancy and STD transmission. Oh...and divorce.
3
Small correction: "ladies" don't have sex (unless they are married ladies, in which case it falls under the heading of "duty" and is okay). Only sluts and prostitutes do.
4
They act like this is new. People have been having premarital sex since they first invented marriage. AND, they're assuming that the funding is only going to women having premarital sex, apparently. Like married women don't need contraception, especially poor married women.
5
And, Doonesbury is considered out of line. What s fucked up place the US can be. Good thing I'm leaving for a spell. There is not enough whisky available to medicate the headache this preyed upon male fantasy induces.
More tea....
More tea....
6
The life of a republican make has got to be a sad, cold, lonely place. And if there is a woman warming his bed, she needs to get out immediately.
Women need to stop having sex with republicans now and forever – or at least until they stop demonizing us.
Women need to stop having sex with republicans now and forever – or at least until they stop demonizing us.
8
I'd like to suggest that the women of the world, stop having sex with Republicans altogether. But it wouldn’t change the rhetoric. I think many of these men are already very sexually frustrated and that is the source of their resentment towards women. Limbaugh probably really believes what he is saying because he’s never had sex with a self-respecting woman or without a money transaction involved i.e. alimony or other.
11
It's not even about who's to blame or who's responsible as much as who would suffer. It's not as if just women would suffer from restrictions on contraception, although they'd take a disproportionate brunt of the suffering. An unwanted pregnancy is an unwanted pregnancy for two...
13
If lawmakers would simply just spend an ounce of money for contraceptive prevention, then they wouldn't have to spend a pound of money for birth-related emergency services, or another pound of money for healthcare, or schooling, or welfare & food stamps, or any of the myriad societal expenses that come with unplanned children.
Wasted wisdom.
Wasted wisdom.
14
Lets push for a new law that says that married men who want Viagra, be forced to get a signed permission slip from their wife.
17
How much you want to bet Viagra is covered by the Hanover plan?
Some people have been pointing out that the only reason birth control pills are prescription-only in the first place is to control women (and to keep the price high, of course). There is no medical reason for them to not be available over the counter; the risks and side effects are well-understood and easily manageable, certainly in comparison with other drugs that are available which are far more dangerous, like Tylenol.
If hormonal birth control was available on regular drugstore shelves, it would probably cost just a few dollars instead of the hundreds it costs now, and no one would be talking about insuring for it (which maintains the price high).
Some people have been pointing out that the only reason birth control pills are prescription-only in the first place is to control women (and to keep the price high, of course). There is no medical reason for them to not be available over the counter; the risks and side effects are well-understood and easily manageable, certainly in comparison with other drugs that are available which are far more dangerous, like Tylenol.
If hormonal birth control was available on regular drugstore shelves, it would probably cost just a few dollars instead of the hundreds it costs now, and no one would be talking about insuring for it (which maintains the price high).
18
See, this is why many people in western and northen Europe view USA as the biggest practical joke in history :P I mean, how are we suppose to take you seriously when 1. The entire country and it's inhabitants live on money you simply don't have 2. Many of your states have a lot less in common then most countries in Europe have with each other and 3. You insist on maintaining the religious, moral, political and economic views on third world countries even though you claim to be progressive. I feel sad for all the decent and intelligent people I know live in the US, because your nation really seems to hate you.
19
It's a plot to turn men gay. All these sanctimonious people are telling women to stop having sex, so the logical conclusion is that only gay sex is okay, right?
20
"Commissioner Jonathan Barfield said he was “one of those abstinence guys” and agreed with Davis’ comment."
No, he's not. He's an idiot.
No, he's not. He's an idiot.
22
@17 "the only reason birth control pills are prescription-only in the first place is to control women (and to keep the price high, of course)."
I don't know enough about the manufacturing processes of various birth control pills to say that the price is overly inflated, but as long as they are expensive, keeping them prescription means my insurance pays for it, making it cheaper for us.
I don't know enough about the manufacturing processes of various birth control pills to say that the price is overly inflated, but as long as they are expensive, keeping them prescription means my insurance pays for it, making it cheaper for us.
23
Last month that commissioner filed to run for the newly created 20th District congressional seat. He's trying to raise his profile on national GOP red meat issues.
On the Democratic side the Philadelphia Inquirer reports noticeable losses for GOP support by women, believed to result from the attacks on women's reproductive rights. I hope Democratic campaign staff keeps working hard to highlight asshole statements like that guy's - it can only help come November.
On the Democratic side the Philadelphia Inquirer reports noticeable losses for GOP support by women, believed to result from the attacks on women's reproductive rights. I hope Democratic campaign staff keeps working hard to highlight asshole statements like that guy's - it can only help come November.
Hard-won Republican gains among female voters have all but evaporated amid a noisy national debate over reproductive health. That opinion shift - if it lasts - could hand a big advantage to President Obama and the Democrats in the fall, political analysts say.http://articles.philly.com/2012-03-11/ne…
25
It seems to me, the problem isn't women having the sex, it's women having sex with men. So, really the solution to all of this would be for women to only have sex with each other, problem solved. Well at least in regards to contraception.. there's still the whole secondary usage issue. Oh, wait... it would no longer need be called contraception and could just be called hormone therapy.
26
@ 14
Viagra should not be available to unmarried men. No marriage certificate, no boner pills. If those single men were being responsible and not having the sex, they wouldn't need boners.
I'm sure this is the next big priority for the conservative movement.
Viagra should not be available to unmarried men. No marriage certificate, no boner pills. If those single men were being responsible and not having the sex, they wouldn't need boners.
I'm sure this is the next big priority for the conservative movement.
27
The way these guys look at it, tax dollars shouldn't be used to subsidize immoral activity. They might agree that premarital sex is inevitable and that contraception should be legal, but still oppose using public money to pay for birth control. There are lots of things that society allows, but does not approve of or subsidize.
28
It's time for a modern day "Lysistrata" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata). No sex for anyone who advocates against providing coverage for contraception, and until these idiotic decisions are overturned. Aristophanes had it right, and he had it right over 2,400 years ago. Sex can be power.
29
@27 It's either that or pay for the unwanted children. And that is REALLY expensive. And they wouldn't dare advocate throwing children in the street or letting them starve to death.
30
it seems to me there is a very serious and deep logic to this, though. what they are absolutely right about is that when women are really and truly in charge of our own sexuality -- when we have sex when we want, with whom we want, because WE want/enjoy it, and without the draconian consequences of potentially having a child every time we do -- then we are incredibly powerful. if you are a man and you want to maintain your power, you do whatever you can to control women's sexuality. best case scenario is that you convince the women in your life that they WANT you to control their sexuality; worst case scenario is that you control it by whatever means necessary, including intrusive government, which you otherwise hate. but if you look at all of this from the perspective of controlling women's sexuality in order to control women, and thus maintain your power, well, all of it starts to make sense.
ditto all the arguments about abortion. it's not about babies, it's about women and sex. period.
ditto all the arguments about abortion. it's not about babies, it's about women and sex. period.
31
Liberal or conservative, what man in his right mind would advocate policy that discourages women from having sex?! These people are nuts.
32
Also, again, birth control pills are widely used in treating common problems like PCOS. Not that there's ANYTHING wrong about taking the pills and having sex, but it seems that a lot of people are completely missing this aspect. In fact, right now the pill is saving me from insane cramps and a host of other problems. I no longer have to take a huge dose of painkillers and curl on the floor in the fetal position waiting for them to kick in. Unfortunately the pill doesn't help you get laid no matter what these idiots say.
Another interesting fact is that women with PCOS sometimes may have a higher chance of getting pregnant immediately after they stop taking birth control rather than if they didn't take it at all, because for a short while their hormone levels stay normal.
Another interesting fact is that women with PCOS sometimes may have a higher chance of getting pregnant immediately after they stop taking birth control rather than if they didn't take it at all, because for a short while their hormone levels stay normal.
33
Tell me again how these people are different from Saudi Muslims who think if a woman is foolish enough to let a man see her clavicles and the man gets ideas, then it's the woman's problem? Both are about making the world a safe place for men to be out-of-control predators.
34
The problem is that the republicans manage to spin this as a struggle between promoting safe sex (which, to them, implicitly promotes sex) and promoting abstinence. They think one side promotes sex while the other discourages it, but the truth is that neither one has any impact on the amount of sex people are having -- one just has a mission to make whatever sex people might have safer, and the other has a mission to pretend it can stop people from having sex.
35
@26 Exactly. No ring than no Viagra. And make sure all rubbers are prescription-only and not covered by health insurance.
This contraception through the male gaze issue reminds me of that old Gloria Steinham essay about how even maxi pads would be subsidized if Men Could Menstruate. In short, these guys are utterly detached from reality.
This contraception through the male gaze issue reminds me of that old Gloria Steinham essay about how even maxi pads would be subsidized if Men Could Menstruate. In short, these guys are utterly detached from reality.
36
You know what's really fucked up? These assholes who oppose contraception, access-to-abortion, and sexual health needs are always pointing to single women.
What about married women? Who do you think takes care of most children? What about the idea that family planning is about having a healthy, happy, and well-supported family? What about the idea that having more kids than you can afford to feed, house, clothe and educate adequately, severely impacts their futures and other kids in your family? (Not to mention the mental health and outlook of the mother.)
And, in a related pet peeve: What about the idea that food stamps (which these same asses oppose) are less necessary when a family can afford to feed itself?
What about married women? Who do you think takes care of most children? What about the idea that family planning is about having a healthy, happy, and well-supported family? What about the idea that having more kids than you can afford to feed, house, clothe and educate adequately, severely impacts their futures and other kids in your family? (Not to mention the mental health and outlook of the mother.)
And, in a related pet peeve: What about the idea that food stamps (which these same asses oppose) are less necessary when a family can afford to feed itself?
37
@29 I agree, given the costs imposed on society by an unplanned pregnancy, ensuring that every women has access to contraception is a no-brainer.
38
I can't imagine how hard the rest of the enlightened world is laughing at us right now. That's what you get for founding a country with puritanical beliefs.
I'm waiting for the Republicans to question the right to vote of women who have sex before marriage... it seems like their next logical step.
I'm waiting for the Republicans to question the right to vote of women who have sex before marriage... it seems like their next logical step.
39
He really sums up the entire modern Republican party platform with the first sentence there:
"See, the problem is [the other]."
Insert the group you irrationally fear most, and there you have it.
"See, the problem is [the other]."
Insert the group you irrationally fear most, and there you have it.
40
@22...there are a couple of benefits to making drugs non-prescription. One is that restrictions on developing generics go out the window. The price of allergy medications that used to be prescription-only has *plummeted* since they have been made over the counter (the generics are very cheap, that is).
But that takes time. In the meantime, your doctor can still prescribe an OTC medication, and your insurance may cover it. I was prescribed allergy medications until the generic OTCs became cheaper than my copay for the prescription. I know people who are still prescribed allergy medications available OTC because they are cheaper under their insurance plan. I am also frequently prescribed painkillers like ibuprofen, and my mother has a vitamin D prescription. All available OTC, but your doc can write a script and your insurance may (and probably will if they did before) cover it.
Also, while yearly doctor's visits are a good idea, they're also a barrier to obtaining contraception. Some people cannot afford an annual physical, others cannot get an appointment with a doctor in a reasonable period of time, and still others will avoid it so others don't find out about their sex lives (I'm thinking mostly young women/parents).
Women who find birth control more affordable with insurance would still be able to take advantage of that if birth control was OTC, while making it OTC would reduce costs and increase access for many others. It would truly be a win-win, except for the conservabots who are skeered of the "havoc" a woman in control of her reproductive destiny may wreak.
But that takes time. In the meantime, your doctor can still prescribe an OTC medication, and your insurance may cover it. I was prescribed allergy medications until the generic OTCs became cheaper than my copay for the prescription. I know people who are still prescribed allergy medications available OTC because they are cheaper under their insurance plan. I am also frequently prescribed painkillers like ibuprofen, and my mother has a vitamin D prescription. All available OTC, but your doc can write a script and your insurance may (and probably will if they did before) cover it.
Also, while yearly doctor's visits are a good idea, they're also a barrier to obtaining contraception. Some people cannot afford an annual physical, others cannot get an appointment with a doctor in a reasonable period of time, and still others will avoid it so others don't find out about their sex lives (I'm thinking mostly young women/parents).
Women who find birth control more affordable with insurance would still be able to take advantage of that if birth control was OTC, while making it OTC would reduce costs and increase access for many others. It would truly be a win-win, except for the conservabots who are skeered of the "havoc" a woman in control of her reproductive destiny may wreak.
41
I's faily shuh it's dem dang Yankees wot done gots dem Southern Belles knocked up in da foist place, suh.
42
@30 Probably true. Ban birth control and you force women to choose between motherhood and chastity. Ladies are better at not having sex than us guys, but not all that much better. So ban birth control and you turn more women into mothers. A women w/ a kid is less likely to work outside the home and more likely to be financially dependent on a man. Also, discouraging women from working outside the home means fewer females hold positions of authority. Basically limiting access to contraception is a round about way of keeping women barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.
44
@36 yeah, it's like they think that married families never need food stamps and no single women have incme enough to care for kids. And that there's no economic reason for a married couple to limit their family size.
And they miss the basic idea of health insurance.
And they miss the basic idea of health insurance.
45
I used to wonder why they don't support birth control, seeing as food stamps/education/welfare/healthcare for unplanned children are so expensive...but they want to cut those things too. An ounce of prevention makes sense to us liberals, but conservatives wouldn't offer prevention or cure.
It's supposed to scare people into abstinence, and punish sexual active people with a life akin to Dickensian England.
@29, Don't be so sure they wouldn't throw poor families out on the street.
It's supposed to scare people into abstinence, and punish sexual active people with a life akin to Dickensian England.
@29, Don't be so sure they wouldn't throw poor families out on the street.
46
Bingo @34.
Ignoramuses like New Hannover County Board Chair Ted Hannover believe non-procreative sex outside the bounds of matrimony is an abomination in the sight of their god, and that women should be punished for engaging in the practice. They don't care if a she's burdened for life with raising an unwanted child - that's the price she pays for her transgression.
Now, ask Commissioner Hannover if this same standard should apply equally to unmarried men, and he'll say, "absolutely!", but you'll note that little twinkle in his eye as he says it, which you can be quite certain is a dead giveaway that he's thinking, "but heck, you know, boys will be boys - whatchagonnado, heh, heh!"
In their minds, women should always be paragons of virtue, even if that means forcing to be so against their wills, because men are inherently weak, and if it weren't for all these sinful women-folk running around tempting men into having the sex all the time, men wouldn't succumb to the temptation in the first place. Just like the way Eve tempted Adam back in the Garden of Eden.
In short: It's all women's fault; it's always been women's fault, so we must continue to punish women forever and ever because they made God very, very angry and got us all kicked out of Paradise. The end.
Ignoramuses like New Hannover County Board Chair Ted Hannover believe non-procreative sex outside the bounds of matrimony is an abomination in the sight of their god, and that women should be punished for engaging in the practice. They don't care if a she's burdened for life with raising an unwanted child - that's the price she pays for her transgression.
Now, ask Commissioner Hannover if this same standard should apply equally to unmarried men, and he'll say, "absolutely!", but you'll note that little twinkle in his eye as he says it, which you can be quite certain is a dead giveaway that he's thinking, "but heck, you know, boys will be boys - whatchagonnado, heh, heh!"
In their minds, women should always be paragons of virtue, even if that means forcing to be so against their wills, because men are inherently weak, and if it weren't for all these sinful women-folk running around tempting men into having the sex all the time, men wouldn't succumb to the temptation in the first place. Just like the way Eve tempted Adam back in the Garden of Eden.
In short: It's all women's fault; it's always been women's fault, so we must continue to punish women forever and ever because they made God very, very angry and got us all kicked out of Paradise. The end.
47
31: Men who already aren't getting laid, and who know they never will. It eats away at them to watch anyone else enjoy what they cannot.
4: Even married women, according to these nutcases, should only be having sex as an attempt to get pregnant. Outside of such attempts, even sex AFTER marriage is a sin to these people.
4: Even married women, according to these nutcases, should only be having sex as an attempt to get pregnant. Outside of such attempts, even sex AFTER marriage is a sin to these people.
49
27, Tax dollars are not subsidizing birth control under the Obama plan. The woman's health insurance premium payment is. Birth control is prescribed for other reasons. As you later recognize, the cost to an insurance plan is much more to cover unwanted pregnancies. "Personhood" bills being proposed by the right would ban most forms of female birth control. They don't seem to balk at the fact that unmarried men's erectile dysfunction treatments are covered.
51
@49 True, Obamacare doesn't mandate the use of tax dollars to pay for birth control. However, the news item that inspired this Slog post IS about tax dollars being used to pay for birth control.
53
@26 "Viagra should not be available to unmarried men. No marriage certificate, no boner pills"
Actually some married women (70-80 yo range) are finding life a tad more difficult with Viagra and would rather their husbands not be able to use it. Then theres the fact that some married men will cheat on their wives using Viagra. So written permission from the wife is probably sound policy, something that conservatives can support, but will provoke hypocritical outrage from their constituents.
If your going to pull a political stunt, might as well do it right.
Actually some married women (70-80 yo range) are finding life a tad more difficult with Viagra and would rather their husbands not be able to use it. Then theres the fact that some married men will cheat on their wives using Viagra. So written permission from the wife is probably sound policy, something that conservatives can support, but will provoke hypocritical outrage from their constituents.
If your going to pull a political stunt, might as well do it right.
55
Looking at the argument over on that website, it's mostly couched in "I shouldn't have to pay for your choices".
The problem with that is that we're a society, not a bunch of islands with no communication. Someone else making a bad choice is going to impinge on you, whether you like it or not. You're gonna pay for unwanted babies, even if you never have sex in your life. Much better to pay for contraception - cheaper and easier all around - than to pay for unwanted babies. And you will pay - there is no way to keep the cost from slopping around to the whole society. The more you pay early, the less you have to pay later on. A young mother of an unwanted baby isn't going to raise a model citizen, but any help she gets in early childhood will save costs later on. Don't want to pay those early childhood costs? That's how you build a criminal class. Taken as a worst case, you either pay for contraception, or you pay to keep that baby, grown up, in jail his whole life. The "don't pay anything" choice is not one of your options.
How is it that there are adults who don't know this? It's like they think they can say "stop having sex" and people will stop having sex.
The problem with that is that we're a society, not a bunch of islands with no communication. Someone else making a bad choice is going to impinge on you, whether you like it or not. You're gonna pay for unwanted babies, even if you never have sex in your life. Much better to pay for contraception - cheaper and easier all around - than to pay for unwanted babies. And you will pay - there is no way to keep the cost from slopping around to the whole society. The more you pay early, the less you have to pay later on. A young mother of an unwanted baby isn't going to raise a model citizen, but any help she gets in early childhood will save costs later on. Don't want to pay those early childhood costs? That's how you build a criminal class. Taken as a worst case, you either pay for contraception, or you pay to keep that baby, grown up, in jail his whole life. The "don't pay anything" choice is not one of your options.
How is it that there are adults who don't know this? It's like they think they can say "stop having sex" and people will stop having sex.
56
@7, there is an entire, substantial class of women who are either convinced of their own inferiority and the rightness of their submission to men, or happy enough to accept that provisionally as long as they get taken care of.
Indoctrination is a helluva drug.
Indoctrination is a helluva drug.
57
@17
Fnarf, I think that, unfortunately, there are still good reasons for keeping birth control pills Rx. Not all birth control pills are the same. There is a huge assortment of pills that offer different hormones on different schedules and in different strengths. The difference between pills and how they affect the user can be night and day. A doctor can help a woman figure out which kind of pill is best for her; a woman just randomly trying things out without guidance is neither efficient nor healthy. Also, there are options in the way you take the pill, e.g., I take it for 3 months continuously, so that I only have 4 periods a year. The reason I do this to treat a non-contraceptive medical problem, but lots of women like to do it because of the whole only-4-periods-a-year thing. However, doing it this way is complicated enough that a woman really ought to have a doctor's supervision. Finally, a woman taking hormonal birth control needs to have a checkup every year or two. Hormone therapy is generally safe, but hormones themselves, whether your body produces them or you get them in pill form, can cause problems, and women of childbearing age need to get checked out regularly to make sure there are no polyps, no endometriosis, no whatever the hell else can happen.
As @40 points out, the time and money needed for doctor's visits can be prohibitive for some women. But we do still have Planned Parenthood! I was uninsured for a couple of years, and I went to PP for checkups and birth control pills. Sure, it's easier to just buy something OTC than to go to a doctor, but that's true for a lot of stuff, and it doesn't make it a good idea. I know when I have tonsillitus or a sinus infection, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a terrible idea to make antibiotics OTC. While the risks associated with birth control pills are fairly well understood by the public, any kind of long-term hormone therapy is tricky enough to require a doctor's say-so.
More...
Fnarf, I think that, unfortunately, there are still good reasons for keeping birth control pills Rx. Not all birth control pills are the same. There is a huge assortment of pills that offer different hormones on different schedules and in different strengths. The difference between pills and how they affect the user can be night and day. A doctor can help a woman figure out which kind of pill is best for her; a woman just randomly trying things out without guidance is neither efficient nor healthy. Also, there are options in the way you take the pill, e.g., I take it for 3 months continuously, so that I only have 4 periods a year. The reason I do this to treat a non-contraceptive medical problem, but lots of women like to do it because of the whole only-4-periods-a-year thing. However, doing it this way is complicated enough that a woman really ought to have a doctor's supervision. Finally, a woman taking hormonal birth control needs to have a checkup every year or two. Hormone therapy is generally safe, but hormones themselves, whether your body produces them or you get them in pill form, can cause problems, and women of childbearing age need to get checked out regularly to make sure there are no polyps, no endometriosis, no whatever the hell else can happen.
As @40 points out, the time and money needed for doctor's visits can be prohibitive for some women. But we do still have Planned Parenthood! I was uninsured for a couple of years, and I went to PP for checkups and birth control pills. Sure, it's easier to just buy something OTC than to go to a doctor, but that's true for a lot of stuff, and it doesn't make it a good idea. I know when I have tonsillitus or a sinus infection, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a terrible idea to make antibiotics OTC. While the risks associated with birth control pills are fairly well understood by the public, any kind of long-term hormone therapy is tricky enough to require a doctor's say-so.
58
@27 (Ken)
"The way these guys look at it, tax dollars shouldn't be used to subsidize immoral activity."
This is NOT a Theocracy. Therefore, what they consider "immoral" is secondary to the public health.
It is in the interest of the public health to provide contraception services.
They can PREACH against it as much as they want in their churches.
But they cannot enforce their beliefs through laws.
If the women do not follow their preachings then that is their problem.
"The way these guys look at it, tax dollars shouldn't be used to subsidize immoral activity."
This is NOT a Theocracy. Therefore, what they consider "immoral" is secondary to the public health.
It is in the interest of the public health to provide contraception services.
They can PREACH against it as much as they want in their churches.
But they cannot enforce their beliefs through laws.
If the women do not follow their preachings then that is their problem.
59
@24 Same here. I thought nothing this week would make me laugh harder than Nixon's love letters, but I was wrong.
60
This kind of thing is so weirdly childish, you know? Like, it's bizarre to me that blowhards like this don't get laughed at the same way we might treat somebody who sucked his thumb.
These are putatively adults we're talking about here, and yet they really seem to think that if they loudly declare that something shouldn't happen then they're absolved of any responsibility whatsoever for so much as acknowledging that it does, in fact, happen.
This is presumably based on the venerable legal and philosophical principle of "It's not fair and I don't wanna!"
These are putatively adults we're talking about here, and yet they really seem to think that if they loudly declare that something shouldn't happen then they're absolved of any responsibility whatsoever for so much as acknowledging that it does, in fact, happen.
This is presumably based on the venerable legal and philosophical principle of "It's not fair and I don't wanna!"
61
@#35- If men had to menstruate, carry,give birth to and care for a baby, abortions would be available at the Jiffy Lube ! Or there would be a "menstrual vacuum" available for at home use.
63
Ok let me see if I've got this right. The problem is women having sex and we all know that sex results in conception. Sex always results in conception because if it doesn't it is not proper sex. Rick Santorum taught me that last part.
Well there is a simple solution here for Republican men and women who don't think contraception should be legal. When you find yourself wanting to have an orgasm, but not "proper sex" because after all "proper sex" will result in conception every time, go have a non-sex orgasm with someone of the same gender.
Simple done. By their own logic it is the only solution. Non-sex, orgasms with members of your own gender as God intended.
Well there is a simple solution here for Republican men and women who don't think contraception should be legal. When you find yourself wanting to have an orgasm, but not "proper sex" because after all "proper sex" will result in conception every time, go have a non-sex orgasm with someone of the same gender.
Simple done. By their own logic it is the only solution. Non-sex, orgasms with members of your own gender as God intended.
64
@18 - Yeah, but here's the thing: whenever I see Europeans getting all smug about how much better they are than the US, I'd like to calmly remind you folks that this culture? Is made up from Europe's cultural baggage. The people who took Europe's religious teachings to an extreme, the people who were economically oppressed, uneducated, desperate...they fled YOUR shores and came here to populate a nation. No wonder it's turned into a place where so many people are still insane, desperate, theocratic, selfish and scared. So get off your high horse: in the grand scheme of history, we're almost the same culture.
65
@31 - well... if one were gay, then I suppose one wouldn't care if ladies had sex... and we know how that conservative republicans never turn out to be gay....
@56 - Yes. As testament to that, Rush Limbaugh has been married four times. Ick.
@56 - Yes. As testament to that, Rush Limbaugh has been married four times. Ick.
66
@64 Also, western Europeans are not culturally superior to the United States in all ways. Judging by some of the stories we've heard about DSK, I think the French are less enlightened than we are when it comes to sexual harassment.
67
@63 - Hey, if God didn't want us pulling out, He would have fitted our penises with erectile barbs, like cats have. Pulling out is the perfect republican birth control method: it costs the tax payer nothing, and is totally stupid!
69
@27: "The way these guys look at it, tax dollars shouldn't be used to subsidize immoral activity."
This is the wrong way of looking at it, even if you accept that sex is an immoral activity. Tax dollars are absolutely not being used to subsidize sex. The sex happens whether the tax dollars are spent or not. The money goes to making an activity that people are already engaging in (for free) SAFER.
This is the wrong way of looking at it, even if you accept that sex is an immoral activity. Tax dollars are absolutely not being used to subsidize sex. The sex happens whether the tax dollars are spent or not. The money goes to making an activity that people are already engaging in (for free) SAFER.
70
Aren't they just trying to make us all gay? If you want to have sex, but not have babies and can't afford birth control... Because I've been finding that argument really convincing, as a lady type person myself.
71
@64
Then explain why Canada and Australia--y'know, that penal colony--haven't hit quite the same retrogressive race to the bottom that America is set on.
I'm not saying that C, A or any European countries are perfect, but across a vast array of metrics we are not "The Greatest Nation On Earth!" and we're getting _more_ crazy.
Then explain why Canada and Australia--y'know, that penal colony--haven't hit quite the same retrogressive race to the bottom that America is set on.
I'm not saying that C, A or any European countries are perfect, but across a vast array of metrics we are not "The Greatest Nation On Earth!" and we're getting _more_ crazy.
72
Please, oh please, someone make a t-shirt about this:
"A guy will just be sitting on a park bench or in a bowling alley, minding his own business and not even thinking about sex every two minutes, when a woman will come along, grab his penis, and run off with it. By the time he's summoned a police officer she's long gone and the damage has been done."
I am thinking a several frame comic strip. We could title it "Penises don't make women pregnant, women make themselves pregnant." Subtext "Men aren't blameless, everyone needs contraception." Maybe the proceeds could go into a fund for contraception at PP?
"A guy will just be sitting on a park bench or in a bowling alley, minding his own business and not even thinking about sex every two minutes, when a woman will come along, grab his penis, and run off with it. By the time he's summoned a police officer she's long gone and the damage has been done."
I am thinking a several frame comic strip. We could title it "Penises don't make women pregnant, women make themselves pregnant." Subtext "Men aren't blameless, everyone needs contraception." Maybe the proceeds could go into a fund for contraception at PP?
73
@19. I agree. Why hasn't anyone else thought of this?
Dan, is all this a plot to encourage single heterosexual men to seek out man love? Or is all that sexual frustration what's driving the insanity now dominant in the Republican party?
Dan, is all this a plot to encourage single heterosexual men to seek out man love? Or is all that sexual frustration what's driving the insanity now dominant in the Republican party?
74
OK - If even *looking* at women can cause sinful lustful thoughts in the hearts - and loins - of otherwise-innocent men . . . . then why shouldn't these weak, temptation-prone men cover *their* eyes and let women alone (or gouge them out)?
Seems to me that's it's the men who have the problem, not the women.
Seems to me that's it's the men who have the problem, not the women.
75
A quick way to end the contraception debate:
All of the women who use and support contraception -- what was the number, 99%? -- should refuse to have sex with any man who opposes her right to contraception. It's perfectly fair, since a man who opposes contraception would never dream of having sex with a woman who uses it ... right?
We'll see how fast the opposition dries up when women take their vaginas elsewhere.
All of the women who use and support contraception -- what was the number, 99%? -- should refuse to have sex with any man who opposes her right to contraception. It's perfectly fair, since a man who opposes contraception would never dream of having sex with a woman who uses it ... right?
We'll see how fast the opposition dries up when women take their vaginas elsewhere.
76
"If these young women are being responsible and didn't have the sex to begin with, we wouldn't have this problem to begin with."
Oooh, I see. So Ted Davis thinks that men should be having sex with men so that young women don't need to buy birth control, which is why he clearly left out insisting that young men needed to be responsible. I had no idea he was in favor of homosexual sex to such an extent. Good to know!
Oooh, I see. So Ted Davis thinks that men should be having sex with men so that young women don't need to buy birth control, which is why he clearly left out insisting that young men needed to be responsible. I had no idea he was in favor of homosexual sex to such an extent. Good to know!
77
@71 I would much rather hang out with criminals than religious zealots. A penal colony is going to have a very different version of crazy than a colony filled with persecuted batshit bible thumpers.
I'm not really sure what Canada's deal is. As a kid, I always viewed it as England without it actually being England.
I'm not really sure what Canada's deal is. As a kid, I always viewed it as England without it actually being England.
78
@74 - Yeah, I heard a story that there had been a series of rapes in Israel and some of the male politicians suggested a curfew for women, to keep them safe. One of the few female politicians there responded that since it was clearly males doing the raping, the idea of a curfew was excellent - impose it on men, since they were at fault, and allow women who saw a man out later than he was supposed to be assume him to be a rapist.
80
Thank you Dan Savage for hearing our outrage across the continent. We are fighters & every bit of indignation -- humorous or angry -- gives us strength.
81
@57 Birth control is available over the counter in plenty of other countries, including the super-mega-Catholic one that I currently live in, which also bans abortion. It works because pharmacists are allowed to use their knowledge of pharmaceuticals to counsel patients and write a prescription at the actual pharmacy, free of charge. It's a much more efficient system, just as safe and results in prices hovering around a handful of loose change.
82
I'm with 57 - birth control should remain OTC. 81 - I've lived where I could just ask the pharmacists for birth control pills, and i didn't like it. it was way too easy, and required zero thought, and i got very little guidance from the pharmacist. it was dangerous.
hormonal birth control is serious business. it can even kill a person. there are many different formulations and many different strategies and taking that drug should be taken seriously by both patient and doctor.
and just bc other countries make BCPs OTC isn't a reason for us to do it. and just because tylenol is dangerous and OTC doesn't make it ok to make BCPs OTC.
and this flippant attitude towards manipulation womens' bodies kinda gives me the creeps. no one thinks anything about having so many women take this very serious drug. bleh.
hormonal birth control is serious business. it can even kill a person. there are many different formulations and many different strategies and taking that drug should be taken seriously by both patient and doctor.
and just bc other countries make BCPs OTC isn't a reason for us to do it. and just because tylenol is dangerous and OTC doesn't make it ok to make BCPs OTC.
and this flippant attitude towards manipulation womens' bodies kinda gives me the creeps. no one thinks anything about having so many women take this very serious drug. bleh.
83
Look, right wing asshats... you're going to pay for it in tax dollars one way or another. Why are you all too fucking stupid to do the math here? Birth control probably costs $15-50 each month (more if you want something fancy like that French tickler Nuva Ring). Are you with me?
Now, suppose said woman can't get birth control cuz your stupid national temper tantrum worked. She has a baby. She's young, has a shitty job with shitty benefits, and qualifies for welfare. So, because you "won," she's now going on welfare. She's eligible for WIC before and after delivery, food stamps, prenatal care, health care for the child, rent assistance, and other forms of cash assistance. One MONTH on welfare probably would cover several years of birth control pills.
If she was on state healthcare, unless she had a squat and drop delivery, that shit probably cost your precious taxpayers $50,000-100,000. And that kid is going to enter the school system, and maybe even have free lunches.
Don't give me the "but if people just kept it in their pants" argument either. NO ONE KEEPS IT IN THEIR PANTS. If you believe in God, you figure, as Justin Halpern's dad says, that dude knew what he was doing, because it's never the right time to have kids, but it's always the right time for fuckin'. In the history of all humanity, WE HAVE NEVER MANAGED TO KEEP IT IN OUR PANTS.
Even your angelic kids who took that asinine abstinence pledge. They are currently finding new and innovative ways to rationalize breaking that pledge, but NOT using birth control when they do, because THAT'S a SIN. And maybe your taxes won't increase, but have fun raising that baby for your high schooler in your 50s! I don't know about you, but I'd pay more taxes to not have to outright raise my grandbaby!
Seems like a no-brainer, which is handy, because no one in the GOP seems to have a fuckin' brain these days!
More...
Now, suppose said woman can't get birth control cuz your stupid national temper tantrum worked. She has a baby. She's young, has a shitty job with shitty benefits, and qualifies for welfare. So, because you "won," she's now going on welfare. She's eligible for WIC before and after delivery, food stamps, prenatal care, health care for the child, rent assistance, and other forms of cash assistance. One MONTH on welfare probably would cover several years of birth control pills.
If she was on state healthcare, unless she had a squat and drop delivery, that shit probably cost your precious taxpayers $50,000-100,000. And that kid is going to enter the school system, and maybe even have free lunches.
Don't give me the "but if people just kept it in their pants" argument either. NO ONE KEEPS IT IN THEIR PANTS. If you believe in God, you figure, as Justin Halpern's dad says, that dude knew what he was doing, because it's never the right time to have kids, but it's always the right time for fuckin'. In the history of all humanity, WE HAVE NEVER MANAGED TO KEEP IT IN OUR PANTS.
Even your angelic kids who took that asinine abstinence pledge. They are currently finding new and innovative ways to rationalize breaking that pledge, but NOT using birth control when they do, because THAT'S a SIN. And maybe your taxes won't increase, but have fun raising that baby for your high schooler in your 50s! I don't know about you, but I'd pay more taxes to not have to outright raise my grandbaby!
Seems like a no-brainer, which is handy, because no one in the GOP seems to have a fuckin' brain these days!
84
"The problem is women having sex."
So those politicians in Washington don't consider their mistresses and sex-workers "women?"
Hm. Maybe they're not.
So those politicians in Washington don't consider their mistresses and sex-workers "women?"
Hm. Maybe they're not.
85
Oh, and the sex-trafficking of young girls in this country occurs at the greatest rate in Washington DC. One of those "corners" is like 3 blocks away from the White House.
I was friends with a few sex workers back in my twenties. One worked in DC as a dancer. She said that the girls told her that wherever a GOP convention went, sex workers followed because the demand was so great. And the "gentlemen's clubs" are quite busy in DC.
I was friends with a few sex workers back in my twenties. One worked in DC as a dancer. She said that the girls told her that wherever a GOP convention went, sex workers followed because the demand was so great. And the "gentlemen's clubs" are quite busy in DC.
86
Ha-ha, hellbound, you and I both know those foot-tappin' male Republicans and evangelicals hire rent boys for their extramarital affairs. Can't get a guy pregnant, so that's their form of birth control. Grrr, this issue has me so spitting mad that I joined the ACLU this morning! I can't even believe this is happening in our great country. Rawr!
88
Am all for the idea of a "Lysistrata"-like SEX STRIKE by ALL women against all Repuglicans -- and guys who would ever vote for Repuglicans!
The Media just lo-ooove Sex Stories -- so think how much free publicity this would get!
"Don't have sex with a Republican" -- just think of the signs, banners, T-shirts, op-ed pieces, leafletting -- just before the Elections, too!
That should fix their wagon.......
This idea is being seriously proposed by angry women all over the place. I say, DO IT!!!
The Media just lo-ooove Sex Stories -- so think how much free publicity this would get!
"Don't have sex with a Republican" -- just think of the signs, banners, T-shirts, op-ed pieces, leafletting -- just before the Elections, too!
That should fix their wagon.......
This idea is being seriously proposed by angry women all over the place. I say, DO IT!!!
89
@55: And then there are the costs not directly related to the specific individual, but to the mere presence of more individuals in society. More people, no matter how well-behaved, means a need for more water, more electricity/gas, more roads to get those people from one place to the next, more schools, more fire, more police, et cetera. There is no way we are going to get out of paying for all that infrastructure, once there is a need for it, and the presence of the extra people will create a demand that affects the whole population. It's not like we can only let abstinent people drive on the roads and use the drinking water.
It's like they WANT to turn the country into an overpopulated, under-serviced, crime-ridden hell-hole.
It's like they WANT to turn the country into an overpopulated, under-serviced, crime-ridden hell-hole.
90
Well, the delusion that some other group of people, otherwise despised, are having all the _good_ sex is a common one...it allows the holder to enjoy contemplating all that sex whilst remaining pure via their condemnation of it.
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