Glass: There's, there's a bunch of incredible stories you tell in that article, and one of them is you talk about the number of industrial engineers needed to oversee 200,000 line workers.
You say there's 8,700 industrial engineers that you need. And so to get this plant going, to get this particular operation going that you were writing about—I can't remember which one it is—you said it would take nine months to find those 8,700 industrial engineers in the United States, and in China, how long it took?
Duhigg: 15 days. And that 15-day figure, the guy who told me that was also, also told me that that's basically because they kind of drug their heels on it a little bit. They probably could've done it faster.
And what's important about those industrial engineers is we're not talking... The United States has the best-educated workforce in the world. If you need top engineers, no place can touch the US. But the industrial engineers that Apple needs are people who essentially have high school degrees, and then two years of additional kind of technical training.
Glass: Because they're basically setting up, "Here's how we're gonna do this with these workers in this assembly line." They're setting up operations.
Duhigg: That's exactly right. They don't need someone with a college degree from, you know, Carnegie-Mellon; they need someone who has vocational training. And the US has essentially cut all of our vocational training. China on the other hand has expanded it enormously.
If you want to DESIGN something cool, you don't go to China. If you want to BUILD something cool, there's no other place to go. Because it'll take you nine months to find the engineers you need in the US, and 15 days in China.