Slog Comments
SL Letter of the Day: Coming To Blows
1
In before FAKE!
Seriously though, I'm not convinced it is. I was in enough ridiculous sexual situations in college that this kind of thing is completely plausible to me. Happens more often than you might think.
Seriously though, I'm not convinced it is. I was in enough ridiculous sexual situations in college that this kind of thing is completely plausible to me. Happens more often than you might think.
2
Whoa! Wow, definitely want to hear how this turns out...it so turns all the tropes on their heads. It sounds like the relationship is on the wane, and I hope this guy's friend doesn't get ugly about it when this denoumont hits. I'm gonna bet that the friendship took a hit in part because people change at that point in their lives, particularly when they leave their childhood environment for the first time, but also because in order to maintain his own "straightness" in his head, the friend had to kind of emotionally distance himself. Something funny is going on there, though, because he was open enough about it to tell his new friends! That doesn't sound like he's in total denial at all...maybe now is when he springs on COCK that he's decided he is bi and out...and maybe they have the hot group scene. Wow..yeah, more questions than answers!
3
Maybe it's fake, maybe it isn't. What makes me think that it might be real is this: in real life people very often "refuse the fence" when offered exactly what they fantasize about. In pornyland people grab the opportunity the second that it is proffered, in real life they worry about the emotional consequences and err on the side of caution.
By the way, LW COCK, I'd get TM protection for "Maybe we shouldn't have complicated it with blowjobs" ... it'd make a great t-shirt.
By the way, LW COCK, I'd get TM protection for "Maybe we shouldn't have complicated it with blowjobs" ... it'd make a great t-shirt.
4
I give it an 80% chance of it being fake. And I did see this play out in a porn back when I was in college. I think it was an old Jock video from the late 80's maybe the early early 90's.
5
I don't think it sounds fake at all. COCK sounds far too conflicted--and wise--for it to be a Penthouse Forum letter.
My question for COCK concerns what turns his crank? Is it just hot guys and access to their cocks that is getting him hot and bothered, or is it the degradation?
Because if it is just the idea of blowing multiple guys, rest assured that you will have that again, hopefully with guys who are gay and out and and won't potentially treat you with contempt (and who will reciprocate).
The fact that he is concerned that he is just being turned into a hole says to me that being used isn't the major turn-on here.
COCK, this friendship might be shifting and winding down. It's true that sex complicates things, but it's also true that lots of high school friendships get diluted when people go away to college and make new friends and have new experiences. You said that last time you saw him, he was cooler to you and yet you blew him more often. Maybe it's time to back the friendship up to what it was without the sex and see if it can be maintained, even if it has changed.
My question for COCK concerns what turns his crank? Is it just hot guys and access to their cocks that is getting him hot and bothered, or is it the degradation?
Because if it is just the idea of blowing multiple guys, rest assured that you will have that again, hopefully with guys who are gay and out and and won't potentially treat you with contempt (and who will reciprocate).
The fact that he is concerned that he is just being turned into a hole says to me that being used isn't the major turn-on here.
COCK, this friendship might be shifting and winding down. It's true that sex complicates things, but it's also true that lots of high school friendships get diluted when people go away to college and make new friends and have new experiences. You said that last time you saw him, he was cooler to you and yet you blew him more often. Maybe it's time to back the friendship up to what it was without the sex and see if it can be maintained, even if it has changed.
7
Thank you for hitting that safety issue hard, Dan, I had red flags flying out of my head left and right over that scenario.
@#1 Helix, I agree, completely plausible.
@#1 Helix, I agree, completely plausible.
8
Well, I was very discreet when I was young because of my jobs. Complicated, but let me tell you this, I found myself in situation after situation where this fantasy could have easily developed. The reason it didn't was because I learned early on you cannot trust other people to keep your confidences. And in this day and age that's even more true.
9
Sure sounds like the relationship HAS become "all about the blowjobs" (at least from his friend's perspective). Unless COCK can be totally secure in his safety - and I don't see how that's possible - I'd tell him to stay away. There are a lot of other guys - gays and "straights" - with whom he can develop a similar friendship first with the benefits to follow.
10
Argh, straight guys.
Huge red flags. COCK, find a couple hot gay guys to fulfill this fantasy and tell that guy to go suck himself. He's using you at best and at worst he's putting you in danger by bringing in randoms with out talking to you first.
Is it hot? Of course. Cocks are hot, getting to play the human Roomba is super hot. This is not. It is confusing and potentially very dangerous.
Huge red flags. COCK, find a couple hot gay guys to fulfill this fantasy and tell that guy to go suck himself. He's using you at best and at worst he's putting you in danger by bringing in randoms with out talking to you first.
Is it hot? Of course. Cocks are hot, getting to play the human Roomba is super hot. This is not. It is confusing and potentially very dangerous.
11
@3 I would buy that and I don't even wear t-shirts. Maybe a nice poster.
Or, better, a mug I could use at work.
Or, better, a mug I could use at work.
12
I'm going with real. I didn't get a fake vibe from this one as I often do from many other stories like this. If it is fake then the writer should consider becoming a professional erotica writer because he (or perhaps she) has more talent than most of them in spinning a believable tale.
That said, assuming it is real, I'd tell this "straight" boy to learn to auto fellate and then go blow himself. A FWB situation with an actual friend where there is affection is one thing, but being passed around like a toy changes everything, and it sounds like COCK is more concerned with the friendship and affection than the sex.
I'm not going to say that gay boys should never blow straight boys, but I do think that when the rubber hits the road most gay boys are better off sticking with gay or bi boys, particularly if affection and some degree of intimacy is important to them.
That said, assuming it is real, I'd tell this "straight" boy to learn to auto fellate and then go blow himself. A FWB situation with an actual friend where there is affection is one thing, but being passed around like a toy changes everything, and it sounds like COCK is more concerned with the friendship and affection than the sex.
I'm not going to say that gay boys should never blow straight boys, but I do think that when the rubber hits the road most gay boys are better off sticking with gay or bi boys, particularly if affection and some degree of intimacy is important to them.
13
COCK is going to 'friendzone' his straight friend. I suspect the straight guy will whine like any other straight guy does when the sex dries up. So just be prepared for the emotional blackmail, as if being friends with someone isn't good enough.
14
I think an important question for LW to ask his friend is why the latter told his friends about it. Will this be some sort of ritual by which friend is proving his straightness to his friends after having drunkenly let it slip ("See, you can get a blowjob and not be gay" or "now we all got one so you can't give me shit about it anymore"), is he trying to coax his friends into bisexuality ("It was pretty hot wasn't it; since my gay friend isn't here, let's just take turns blowing each other as a favor") or is something else going on?
15
Seems like someone's about to learn that once you get out of high school, you'll never matter as much to your high school friends as you think you will.
Also, I suspect that COCK's friend is going to get a "Pfft, whatever, I can get blown any time I want" sort of response from his 'friend,' who'll probably go the self-ego-stroking route of sour grapes rather than confront the fact that he took advantage of someone who cared about him.
Also, I suspect that COCK's friend is going to get a "Pfft, whatever, I can get blown any time I want" sort of response from his 'friend,' who'll probably go the self-ego-stroking route of sour grapes rather than confront the fact that he took advantage of someone who cared about him.
16
Ugh. No. Do you even know what these guys look like or act like? The fantasy of college fratboys is often far hotter than the reality. Your friend's friends might raging assholes or shlubby creepers who haven't bathed in a week. And a kind of sick gang-mentality can kick in when it is 3 against 1. If they are heavily invested in retaining their straight identity, this could get ugly fast.
Blowing multiple hot guys is a great fantasy. And one you can fulfill if you really want to. But do it with guys who actually, you know, are into guys, and who won't go psycho on you afterward. If you are young and adventurous and reasonably good looking, it isn't that hard to arrange such a hookup. I've done it.
And if humiliation is part of the fantasy, it is probably even more important to do it safely with consenting partners. Far better to find a couple of friends who will pretend to humiliate you, but won't actually break your arm or knock out a few teeth afterward.
Blowing multiple hot guys is a great fantasy. And one you can fulfill if you really want to. But do it with guys who actually, you know, are into guys, and who won't go psycho on you afterward. If you are young and adventurous and reasonably good looking, it isn't that hard to arrange such a hookup. I've done it.
And if humiliation is part of the fantasy, it is probably even more important to do it safely with consenting partners. Far better to find a couple of friends who will pretend to humiliate you, but won't actually break your arm or knock out a few teeth afterward.
17
We regret the things we don't do more than the things that go wrong. What's the worst case scenario if he goes through with it?
19
This doesn't feel fake at all. And I think the LW is making the right decision. Your friend isn't acting like a friend anymore, LW. That's pretty much the long and short of it.
20
Are Gay men so desperate and needy that they have to have sex with "bi" or "str8" men? What the writer of the letters is saying is that Gay men are not good enough to have sex with. Only straight men are. Gay men are nasty and no good to the writer. A Gay guy in college can't find enough Gay guys to have sex with? It's not a fake it's a tragedy.
21
I don't get why people would think this one is a fake. The fake-sounding ones usually have gratuitous details about how hot all the people involved are.
23
@8 and @16, is it seriously that easy for gay men to arrange hot group sessions? If this were a straight guy offered to be passed around by his college aged FWB girl-friend and her friends, this would be once in a life time. Or fake.
I don't see the safety risk. As long as his long time friend is there with him, the risk of things getting violent seems minimal. What @17 said and go for it.
I don't see the safety risk. As long as his long time friend is there with him, the risk of things getting violent seems minimal. What @17 said and go for it.
24
@20 I think gay guys are inevitably going to fetishize straight boys for much the same reason black men fetishize white women. Forbidden fruit and all that.
25
There's a certain thrill in blowing "straight" guys, but the letter writer's friend is giving off asshole signals. Which would make it analingus, rather than a blowjob. If he does this, then the friendship will end, badly. It will likely end anyway, mind you, but not quite so spectacularly.
Too much stupid drama. Avoid stupid drama.
Too much stupid drama. Avoid stupid drama.
26
@20. Where are you getting the assumption that he's not having sex with other gay men or that he thinks gay men are not good enough to have sex with?
He said he's had a long standing sexual and personal, but not romantic, relationship with a guy, but now has second thoughts about the direction it's going. And that the guy's asked to open-up the relationship in a way that raises very legitimate red flags.
It's perfectly reasonable to hold that having sex with straight men is lopsided and inherently unhealthy. But one man's "inherently unhealthy" is another's "smoking hot."
What I don't understand is where in the letter you found that gay men are nasty and no good to the writer.
He said he's had a long standing sexual and personal, but not romantic, relationship with a guy, but now has second thoughts about the direction it's going. And that the guy's asked to open-up the relationship in a way that raises very legitimate red flags.
It's perfectly reasonable to hold that having sex with straight men is lopsided and inherently unhealthy. But one man's "inherently unhealthy" is another's "smoking hot."
What I don't understand is where in the letter you found that gay men are nasty and no good to the writer.
29
Yeah, these guys are going to be total fucking assholes to him if the LW goes through with it, and I would not be surprised at all to later read headlines in the theme of, "College students charged with murder of friend, defense claims 'gay panic'."
Seriously, when the best-case scenario is having verbal abuse hurled at you by men watching you suck a stranger's cock (even though they'll be stroking themselves watching a man perform oral sex on another man, I guarantee, they will consider the LW to be the only "fag" in the room), not to mention by the man whose cock you're sucking, and there's no safeword involved, there is just not enough payoff for it to be worth it.
Seriously, when the best-case scenario is having verbal abuse hurled at you by men watching you suck a stranger's cock (even though they'll be stroking themselves watching a man perform oral sex on another man, I guarantee, they will consider the LW to be the only "fag" in the room), not to mention by the man whose cock you're sucking, and there's no safeword involved, there is just not enough payoff for it to be worth it.
30
This sounds real enough to me. COCK, you don't know these other boys. They could be dealing with internalized homophobia, and you don't want to be on the receiving end of any bullshit or abuse they might hurl at you along with their loads. And the fact that your friend told these guys you'd blow them without even talking to you about it first means he doesn't respect you much. Tread lightly.
31
@23. I've periodically had straight men ask me if it is really that easy for gay men to get laid. To which I always answer: if you are reasonably attractive and not a complete social dolt, then yes, it really is easy.
Just think if straight women were as constantly horny and easy as straight men. You'd be hooking up all the time, with far more ease. The only thing keeping straights back is the slut shaming and reluctance of women. There is no such barrier for gay men.
Just think if straight women were as constantly horny and easy as straight men. You'd be hooking up all the time, with far more ease. The only thing keeping straights back is the slut shaming and reluctance of women. There is no such barrier for gay men.
32
@30, I agree. Even if the FWB's friends/roomates are decent guys, the FWB is a complete asshole to the LW. If the LW were a woman and the FWB told his new roomies, "there's this chick-friend of mine who blows me whenever I want and I get to finger her in return. I could probably get her to visit and do the same with you two", there'd be no question that he'd be an asshole. Well, that's pretty much what's going on here. Roomies might be great guys but, COCK, stay the fuck away from your former friend - he's a dick, COCK.
33
I don't think the letter is fake, but I think the friend's "straightness" may well be.
Unfortunately I agree with everyone else that this is a bad idea. I say unfortunate just because if I were to switch it around so that the genders were appropriate for my own orientation it seems like the kind of thing I might have killed for when I was a college kid. Or you know, maybe right now.
It seems to me like the friend is bound to come out of the closet eventually. However, first he is going to try and squeeze that door shut as tightly as he can, and you might not want to have your neck in the door frame.
I think this is all about some psychodrama that is taking place in friend's head. He wants to reestablish his straight bona fides. One way to do this is to establish that what he had done with you in the past was not gay. In turn, a way to do that is to get other "straight" guys to join in. It can't be gay if a bunch of straight guys are doing it, right?
The problem is that if the whole goal is to distance himself from seeming gay, there are a whole host of other behaviors that are likely to be associated with that. All of them entail acting like a jerk towards you. Some of them could be dangerous and most of them will be humiliating.
What you really need is to find a way to act out this scenario with three gay guys rather than one gay guy who is pretending to be straight and his friends of unknown sexuality. If you can do it with guys who are all out of the closet you can return this letter back to porn file and out of the letter to Dan file.
Unfortunately I agree with everyone else that this is a bad idea. I say unfortunate just because if I were to switch it around so that the genders were appropriate for my own orientation it seems like the kind of thing I might have killed for when I was a college kid. Or you know, maybe right now.
It seems to me like the friend is bound to come out of the closet eventually. However, first he is going to try and squeeze that door shut as tightly as he can, and you might not want to have your neck in the door frame.
I think this is all about some psychodrama that is taking place in friend's head. He wants to reestablish his straight bona fides. One way to do this is to establish that what he had done with you in the past was not gay. In turn, a way to do that is to get other "straight" guys to join in. It can't be gay if a bunch of straight guys are doing it, right?
The problem is that if the whole goal is to distance himself from seeming gay, there are a whole host of other behaviors that are likely to be associated with that. All of them entail acting like a jerk towards you. Some of them could be dangerous and most of them will be humiliating.
What you really need is to find a way to act out this scenario with three gay guys rather than one gay guy who is pretending to be straight and his friends of unknown sexuality. If you can do it with guys who are all out of the closet you can return this letter back to porn file and out of the letter to Dan file.
34
@16 LW clearly wrote 'dorm.' Which is very different from 'frat.'
Aurora Erratic is right: fake letters concentrate on the lurid aspects of the sex itself, not the emotional situation between the participants.
So Mr. 100% true LW, remember the order: Friends comes before benefits. Become friends with them first. If you like hanging around them, plan to get together this summer for a party. You're the one w/ the mouth, you're the one w/ the power. Go at your pace.
Aurora Erratic is right: fake letters concentrate on the lurid aspects of the sex itself, not the emotional situation between the participants.
So Mr. 100% true LW, remember the order: Friends comes before benefits. Become friends with them first. If you like hanging around them, plan to get together this summer for a party. You're the one w/ the mouth, you're the one w/ the power. Go at your pace.
35
Sounds like the sort of idiotic stuff that you can get into at that time of life, it sounds pretty plausible to me. I'm also very interested in what happens, I hope he writes back.
36
I believe it....I saw way more strange stuff than this back in my college days. I will check back for an update after he talks to his friend.
37
@20: Wow, you are crazy. First of all, he said he was a college freshman. If he's a shy college freshman, he might be still blowing his straight friend because it is easier to maintain old arrangements than to create new ones for most shy people. A lot of 18/19-year-olds really want to get laid but also are insecure about just putting themselves out there, so it kind of doesn't surprise me if he's not getting constantly laid by gay guys.
38
I like the way #32 put it. I feel bad for the LW, he's definitely being used, and he does seem to have his act together. Plus, as others have said... can he be sure to be safe? If his friendship with this guy is on the wane, then who knows?
39
@31 thanks for the reply. Makes total sense. Colour me green with envy.
This thread is fascinating because the women and gay men who reply seem to take into consideration the safety and emotional toll this could take on the LW. I guess that is the luxury you have when you can get laid whenever you want.
Its also interesting how most people are projecting the roommates to be a bunch of "redemption" southern frat boy homophopic rednecks with deeply conflicted but aggressive gay tendancies. There is nothing in his letter that implies this. As a straight guy, let me weigh in that I don't know any man who would consider getting a blowjob from a man a straight activity. I would assume his roomates are liberal, gay-friendly types who are comfortable but college-curious about their sexuality and, of course, horny. I don't think the average redneck frat boy is going to brag about the hundreds of gay blowjobs he has gotten and then offer to make a public display of his man-on-man tendencies.
This thread is fascinating because the women and gay men who reply seem to take into consideration the safety and emotional toll this could take on the LW. I guess that is the luxury you have when you can get laid whenever you want.
Its also interesting how most people are projecting the roommates to be a bunch of "redemption" southern frat boy homophopic rednecks with deeply conflicted but aggressive gay tendancies. There is nothing in his letter that implies this. As a straight guy, let me weigh in that I don't know any man who would consider getting a blowjob from a man a straight activity. I would assume his roomates are liberal, gay-friendly types who are comfortable but college-curious about their sexuality and, of course, horny. I don't think the average redneck frat boy is going to brag about the hundreds of gay blowjobs he has gotten and then offer to make a public display of his man-on-man tendencies.
40
I don't think it's fake. It's sounds both sincere and entirely plausible. Dan's response (and questions) were thorough and spot-on. And COCK's response ("I guess I will just have a conversation with my friend tomorrow. I figure I've got nothing to lose from being honest.") is entirely correct.
It is a hot scenario, at least for me, but COCK needs to protect his safety -- and his emotions, too, it sounds like, if they were genuinely friends beforehand and he's worried about letting that go. (That said, sometimes friendships wane and come to a natural end, especially after time and distance, and if your friendship is waning, it may not relate directly to the blowjobs.)
I hope COCK writes back later and lets us know how everything turned out.
It is a hot scenario, at least for me, but COCK needs to protect his safety -- and his emotions, too, it sounds like, if they were genuinely friends beforehand and he's worried about letting that go. (That said, sometimes friendships wane and come to a natural end, especially after time and distance, and if your friendship is waning, it may not relate directly to the blowjobs.)
I hope COCK writes back later and lets us know how everything turned out.
41
@39 - that's exactly why I really focus on the FWB in my comment @32. I'd be cautious about any intimate interaction with unknowns (the thing that scares the shit out of me when I think of my own kids in these situations (and I recognize how paternalistic that is but there you go) but, assuming the LW had no idea his FWB was sharing their secret (and offering to share COCK with his roomies), FWB is a dick.
42
Well played, Mr Fortunate. This letter ties in neatly with the previous letter from Mr Wants-to-Experiment. Gays do not exist for the sole purpose of servicing straights (or "straights"), and it appears that this unfortunate LW's friend seems to be headed in the wrong direction of thinking that they do. I can see that a mixed-orientation FWB might be a decent practical solution for someone in college, but clearly as a temporary stopgap and not advisable as a permanency.
LW, first off, I congratulate you for at least getting something out of the FWB sessions. Far too often these interactions are entirely unilateral. Okay, some people just roll that way, and they are entitled to the pursuit of happiness. But I'd encourage people who don't just roll that way not to settle for the role of Mere Service Provider on more than a temporary-with-end-in-mind basis. I am also concerned that the end effect of this on straight men serviced by gay men tends to be unhelpful (it's certainly a disincentive to unpack privilege) in the big picture.
While friendships across the Great Divide are possible and valuable, it does unfortunately sound as if this one is headed in the wrong direction. The last visit seems discouraging, and the straight friend's interest in taking the proposed next visit even further the wrong way does not improve matters. I'd probably not go at all and wait to see what sort of reconnection forms during the summer, as the LW's second question is how he can turn this around. The atmosphere of being on the other team's home field in multiple senses does not seem to be helping.
As for the LW's first question, the trend of the previous visit sounds as if the request is coming from an attitude of privilege and service consumption. It may be remotely possible, particularly if their past discussions have suggested that this would be where the LW's interests might lie, that the friend was just trying to arrange something fun in what turned out to be rather an inept manner. Or, if I were writing this as a bit of fiction, it might be blackmail. But the simplest explanation seems to be that the straight friend is coming under the sway of a Bad Influence.
But good for the LW for realizing that he deserves respect.
More...
LW, first off, I congratulate you for at least getting something out of the FWB sessions. Far too often these interactions are entirely unilateral. Okay, some people just roll that way, and they are entitled to the pursuit of happiness. But I'd encourage people who don't just roll that way not to settle for the role of Mere Service Provider on more than a temporary-with-end-in-mind basis. I am also concerned that the end effect of this on straight men serviced by gay men tends to be unhelpful (it's certainly a disincentive to unpack privilege) in the big picture.
While friendships across the Great Divide are possible and valuable, it does unfortunately sound as if this one is headed in the wrong direction. The last visit seems discouraging, and the straight friend's interest in taking the proposed next visit even further the wrong way does not improve matters. I'd probably not go at all and wait to see what sort of reconnection forms during the summer, as the LW's second question is how he can turn this around. The atmosphere of being on the other team's home field in multiple senses does not seem to be helping.
As for the LW's first question, the trend of the previous visit sounds as if the request is coming from an attitude of privilege and service consumption. It may be remotely possible, particularly if their past discussions have suggested that this would be where the LW's interests might lie, that the friend was just trying to arrange something fun in what turned out to be rather an inept manner. Or, if I were writing this as a bit of fiction, it might be blackmail. But the simplest explanation seems to be that the straight friend is coming under the sway of a Bad Influence.
But good for the LW for realizing that he deserves respect.
44
@8, That was my concern as well. Not so much physical safety, but there's a really high chance one of these "bros" is going to end up taking pictures or video and this will end up in places, being seen by people, that COCK never intended.
Even if you trust your friend, COCK, I wouldn't trust *his* friends, or his judgment on forming friendships, enough to risk this. Remember that digital pictures and videos never really go away. No reason to chance at 18 something that could follow you the rest of your life.
Even if you trust your friend, COCK, I wouldn't trust *his* friends, or his judgment on forming friendships, enough to risk this. Remember that digital pictures and videos never really go away. No reason to chance at 18 something that could follow you the rest of your life.
45
Also, I do find it curious that the FWB felt comfortable enough about the situation to tell his new buddies about it. Maybe straight 18 year olds are more comfortable about such things than they were when I was 18, but I would have thought he'd keep it entirely secret. Perhaps he was hoping his new buddies would provide him with some benefits closer to home. Perhaps they've had their own experiences in the past?
Unfortunately, the LW wouldn't be able to know any of that up front. And so sadly, as hot as the scenario sounds, the potential risks outweigh the potential fun.
Unfortunately, the LW wouldn't be able to know any of that up front. And so sadly, as hot as the scenario sounds, the potential risks outweigh the potential fun.
46
The vibe I'm getting is that the LW's alleged friend has probably been BSing his new college buddies, how he's so hot and studly that he's even got a gay guy willing to suck his dick on command (though I'd bet he probably hasn't mentioned his own attempt at reciprocation ... 'cuz ... gay). Of course, the new buddies have questioned his BS, so he offers to prove it to them: he'll get his very good friend to blow them, too, the very next time he visits.
Even if there were no threat of any physical danger to the LW, his friend has already shown that their relationship is unravelling. He's shown no consideration of the LW's feelings. Yes, I know I let my imagination run away with me, but I could even see the "friend" complaining, "Aw, c'mon man, I promised them you'd be keen to do it. Aren't we friends?"
LW, if this might be a fantasy of yours, to be passed around, then find other safe and willing participants to play it with you. And let this cooling friendship chill all the way down to ice cubes.
Even if there were no threat of any physical danger to the LW, his friend has already shown that their relationship is unravelling. He's shown no consideration of the LW's feelings. Yes, I know I let my imagination run away with me, but I could even see the "friend" complaining, "Aw, c'mon man, I promised them you'd be keen to do it. Aren't we friends?"
LW, if this might be a fantasy of yours, to be passed around, then find other safe and willing participants to play it with you. And let this cooling friendship chill all the way down to ice cubes.
47
@41, your comment @32 was a great analogy.
Funny how if you reverse your analogy - a straight guy being offered to service his college girl FWB AND her friends - no one is worried about his feelings of being used. The common denominator? Apparenlty straight men have a unique ability to make their sex partners feel used. Sigh.
Funny how if you reverse your analogy - a straight guy being offered to service his college girl FWB AND her friends - no one is worried about his feelings of being used. The common denominator? Apparenlty straight men have a unique ability to make their sex partners feel used. Sigh.
48
@47
Or maybe that we just assume - based on most of human history - that if there is sexual inequity, the straight guy always wins. Combined with our cultural assumption that straight guys always want sex and can never - short of gay assault - be sexual victims.
Or maybe that we just assume - based on most of human history - that if there is sexual inequity, the straight guy always wins. Combined with our cultural assumption that straight guys always want sex and can never - short of gay assault - be sexual victims.
49
If this is real...
The straight friend asking some of his other straight friends over for some head from his gay (former) friend is in my opinion a very red flag that it is time for the gay friend to move on. By asking others over, he has officially degraded what was once there (if something was once there) to something impersonal - going from a sexual relationship between the two to a hooker and three johns. I wouldn't want any part of it, COCK.
The straight friend asking some of his other straight friends over for some head from his gay (former) friend is in my opinion a very red flag that it is time for the gay friend to move on. By asking others over, he has officially degraded what was once there (if something was once there) to something impersonal - going from a sexual relationship between the two to a hooker and three johns. I wouldn't want any part of it, COCK.
50
@49
I'm curious. Would you not want any part of it because you find the whole scenario - a gay guy servicing three straight guys in a row - inherently distasteful?
Or is it the facts we know about these particular four guys that you find troublesome?
In other words, is your opinion general or specific?
I'm curious. Would you not want any part of it because you find the whole scenario - a gay guy servicing three straight guys in a row - inherently distasteful?
Or is it the facts we know about these particular four guys that you find troublesome?
In other words, is your opinion general or specific?
51
Mr Douglas:
@26 - I agree with your point that we don't know that the LW is only indulging with this particular friend, and wish we had more information about what he is or isn't doing with anyone else and why (as long as it's Wishing Day). I'd call it another man's nearly a kink, though, rather than smoking hot.
@48 - An interesting mix of two assumptions that go in different directions. I commend you.
@50 - Curious or chivalrous? If the latter, it's probably unnecessary, though almost charming. (No, I am not flirting.) Personally, I'd say Both, though allowing leeway for personal taste regarding the general portion.
@26 - I agree with your point that we don't know that the LW is only indulging with this particular friend, and wish we had more information about what he is or isn't doing with anyone else and why (as long as it's Wishing Day). I'd call it another man's nearly a kink, though, rather than smoking hot.
@48 - An interesting mix of two assumptions that go in different directions. I commend you.
@50 - Curious or chivalrous? If the latter, it's probably unnecessary, though almost charming. (No, I am not flirting.) Personally, I'd say Both, though allowing leeway for personal taste regarding the general portion.
52
@33 and @46 are interesting analyses.
Yes, the question is what is going on inside the head of the "friend". He sounds like he's struggling with his own sexual orientation and somehow bringing in two others will help "prove" to himself that he's straight.
In any case, the original arrangement has moved into new territory that, at most, doesn't offer much to the LW, and the new actors could be potentially dangerouis. It seems the original high-school friendship is pretty much over.
Dan's description of the circumstances under which the scenario could be hot and fun is interesting, but seems quite unlikely to be the case, given the LW's description.
Yes, the question is what is going on inside the head of the "friend". He sounds like he's struggling with his own sexual orientation and somehow bringing in two others will help "prove" to himself that he's straight.
In any case, the original arrangement has moved into new territory that, at most, doesn't offer much to the LW, and the new actors could be potentially dangerouis. It seems the original high-school friendship is pretty much over.
Dan's description of the circumstances under which the scenario could be hot and fun is interesting, but seems quite unlikely to be the case, given the LW's description.
53
@17, you're an idiot.
LW, you sound very smart and thoughtful, and I think you are well aware that your doubts are there for a reason. Save this fantasy for the spank bank, and as others have mentioned... you may well be able to realize it later, with people who know you better and are more likely to know the difference between fantasy humiliation and ACTUAL humiliation.
LW, you sound very smart and thoughtful, and I think you are well aware that your doubts are there for a reason. Save this fantasy for the spank bank, and as others have mentioned... you may well be able to realize it later, with people who know you better and are more likely to know the difference between fantasy humiliation and ACTUAL humiliation.
54
I'm also really puzzled that a guy claiming to be straight would boast about this to his new college buddies. Unless we're missing some important details, that just doesn't add up. I can't help but wonder whether COCK is being set up for something. I suppose it's possible that they just want to have some fun, but it's setting off alarm bells for me.
55
Mr Horton: @39 - I understand you've been having a troubled time of things lately, and shall post this in Gentle Mode, after a good LMB.
Yes, there may be a morsel of privilege in greater sexual access (although, if there is such a thing, I'd maintain that it is age-dependent to a great extent) - if, of course, one does not object to being shamed as an S* or demonized as not only unfit for marriage but a threat to the very bedrock of civilization. But the "luxury" of considering one's safety and the emotional toll is not really the best hook on which to try to hang that point. I expected one of the women to have pointed this out by now, but safety in potential sexual encounters is much more of an issue for opposite-sexing women (and to a lesser extent same-sexing men) than for opposite-sexing men. One could discuss whether this is because of the nature of the partners in the case, but I'll pass that over.
@47: Actually, I'd be supportive of anyone complaining of feeling used in such a situation. Unless it's the sort of thing one specifically likes, it's not nice treatment to be offered about as if one were a toy. That goes fairly evenly across the board. I'd guess (without seeing statistics, however) that being inclined to offer a sexual partner up as a train puller is likely to coincide with that old word Privilege again, and I don't think we need to specify who has the lion's share of that.
Yes, there may be a morsel of privilege in greater sexual access (although, if there is such a thing, I'd maintain that it is age-dependent to a great extent) - if, of course, one does not object to being shamed as an S* or demonized as not only unfit for marriage but a threat to the very bedrock of civilization. But the "luxury" of considering one's safety and the emotional toll is not really the best hook on which to try to hang that point. I expected one of the women to have pointed this out by now, but safety in potential sexual encounters is much more of an issue for opposite-sexing women (and to a lesser extent same-sexing men) than for opposite-sexing men. One could discuss whether this is because of the nature of the partners in the case, but I'll pass that over.
@47: Actually, I'd be supportive of anyone complaining of feeling used in such a situation. Unless it's the sort of thing one specifically likes, it's not nice treatment to be offered about as if one were a toy. That goes fairly evenly across the board. I'd guess (without seeing statistics, however) that being inclined to offer a sexual partner up as a train puller is likely to coincide with that old word Privilege again, and I don't think we need to specify who has the lion's share of that.
56
@51
So as to not sound like I'm merely trolling, personally, I'm not down with fetishizing straight guys, but I do see the hotness in servicing a string of cocks and giving the opportunity to do so at least a moment's consideration.
But I don't actually see straight guys as the kid's question. He's asking about a sexual relationship he's been in for over a year with a guy who claims to be straight, but he doesn't believe that claim. Maybe he's right, maybe it's projection/denial, I don't know, I haven't meat either of them.
It seems to me, when you're in high school - especially when you're gay - you take it where you can get it. Now after most of a year away from home, a time of huge change for anyone, he's questioning if that's still enough or was a good idea - "Maybe we shouldn't have complicated it with blowjobs."
I respect the writer for rethinking some youthful choices. I also respect that some men - maybe the writer, again I haven't met him - could go into that weekend and have a wild sex romp they'd still be jacking off to in their 50s. But it would require an incredibly strong sense of self and hyper-vigilance and clarity in reading the other guys involved, including his friend. And still there would be danger.
My curiosity toward #49 is genuine. "A hooker and three johns" is pretty strong language, and I'm really curious if the reaction was general to the scenario or specific to the facts we know about the relationship.
So as to not sound like I'm merely trolling, personally, I'm not down with fetishizing straight guys, but I do see the hotness in servicing a string of cocks and giving the opportunity to do so at least a moment's consideration.
But I don't actually see straight guys as the kid's question. He's asking about a sexual relationship he's been in for over a year with a guy who claims to be straight, but he doesn't believe that claim. Maybe he's right, maybe it's projection/denial, I don't know, I haven't meat either of them.
It seems to me, when you're in high school - especially when you're gay - you take it where you can get it. Now after most of a year away from home, a time of huge change for anyone, he's questioning if that's still enough or was a good idea - "Maybe we shouldn't have complicated it with blowjobs."
I respect the writer for rethinking some youthful choices. I also respect that some men - maybe the writer, again I haven't met him - could go into that weekend and have a wild sex romp they'd still be jacking off to in their 50s. But it would require an incredibly strong sense of self and hyper-vigilance and clarity in reading the other guys involved, including his friend. And still there would be danger.
My curiosity toward #49 is genuine. "A hooker and three johns" is pretty strong language, and I'm really curious if the reaction was general to the scenario or specific to the facts we know about the relationship.
57
@55
I think you came down a little hard on Tim Horton (#47). I totally agree with you that that the straight version of this scenario could demean and seriously wound the straight boy who finds himself offered-up as a play thing.
but I think Tim was commenting on the double standard, not the potential for it being a bad idea or the guy getting hurt.
It's like a 14 year old sleeping with an opposite sex teacher. Stereotypes teach us that if the teacher is the male, he's a monster, but if the teacher is the female, then the boy's a stud. That's ridiculous and offensive, but generally how our culture sees it. Same here, the idea of a collage boy being offered out to stud by a girl he's doing (she could never be doing him) is presumed to be a complement, even when it's not.
More to the point, outside of those of us who get into nitty-gritty discussions of Savage Love Letters, how much support do you suppose such a straight-guy would find complaining that he felt demeaned by a girl he's been doing for a year wanting to line up two more pussies in his face? He could probably slut-shame her and assert masculine privilege as her moral superior, but actually address his own victimization?
I think you came down a little hard on Tim Horton (#47). I totally agree with you that that the straight version of this scenario could demean and seriously wound the straight boy who finds himself offered-up as a play thing.
but I think Tim was commenting on the double standard, not the potential for it being a bad idea or the guy getting hurt.
It's like a 14 year old sleeping with an opposite sex teacher. Stereotypes teach us that if the teacher is the male, he's a monster, but if the teacher is the female, then the boy's a stud. That's ridiculous and offensive, but generally how our culture sees it. Same here, the idea of a collage boy being offered out to stud by a girl he's doing (she could never be doing him) is presumed to be a complement, even when it's not.
More to the point, outside of those of us who get into nitty-gritty discussions of Savage Love Letters, how much support do you suppose such a straight-guy would find complaining that he felt demeaned by a girl he's been doing for a year wanting to line up two more pussies in his face? He could probably slut-shame her and assert masculine privilege as her moral superior, but actually address his own victimization?
58
@ 54
I knew I was forgetting something in #46. The "friend" could have been boasting after a few generous portions of alcohol. You know, loosened inhibitions and all that.
I knew I was forgetting something in #46. The "friend" could have been boasting after a few generous portions of alcohol. You know, loosened inhibitions and all that.
59
Tim @ 39
"This thread is fascinating because the women and gay men who reply seem to take into consideration the safety and emotional toll this could take on the LW. I guess that is the luxury you have when you can get laid whenever you want."
Maybe we take safety and emotional toll into consideration because we are the ones being penetrated? And there is a vulnerability to allowing another person entrance to your body. There is also an element of submission. I'm afraid I'm not to inclined to see safety as a luxury. I'm more inclined to see it as in a smart persons best interest and more of a requirement. Just my $0.02.
"This thread is fascinating because the women and gay men who reply seem to take into consideration the safety and emotional toll this could take on the LW. I guess that is the luxury you have when you can get laid whenever you want."
Maybe we take safety and emotional toll into consideration because we are the ones being penetrated? And there is a vulnerability to allowing another person entrance to your body. There is also an element of submission. I'm afraid I'm not to inclined to see safety as a luxury. I'm more inclined to see it as in a smart persons best interest and more of a requirement. Just my $0.02.
60
50:
I would very much like to hold the same sentiment that Deborah Kerr's character in Night of the Iguana holds as her universal truth: Nothing human disgusts me. I'm not completely there yet, but the idea of three guys being serviced by what sounds like a vulnerable young man is not something I find abhorrent if that's what this young guy wants - if it's his kink.
My advice was specific. He seems to hold real affection for this straight guy. but it doesn't sound reciprocal. "Hey dudes, come on over and get blown by this fag who blows me." If the young gay guy just wants a lot of dick, wouldn't he ask the straight guy, "Do you have any friends who could use a free blowy?" In other words, I think in this case and out of respect for his gay friend, it should be the gay friend who offers. And the straight guy should keep his mouth shut and continue to enjoy the attention...or not.
I would very much like to hold the same sentiment that Deborah Kerr's character in Night of the Iguana holds as her universal truth: Nothing human disgusts me. I'm not completely there yet, but the idea of three guys being serviced by what sounds like a vulnerable young man is not something I find abhorrent if that's what this young guy wants - if it's his kink.
My advice was specific. He seems to hold real affection for this straight guy. but it doesn't sound reciprocal. "Hey dudes, come on over and get blown by this fag who blows me." If the young gay guy just wants a lot of dick, wouldn't he ask the straight guy, "Do you have any friends who could use a free blowy?" In other words, I think in this case and out of respect for his gay friend, it should be the gay friend who offers. And the straight guy should keep his mouth shut and continue to enjoy the attention...or not.
61
I once encouraged a girl I was sleeping with to sleep with a guy friend of mine. At another point I encouraged her to sleep with another guy friend and for some reason or another it didn't happen, but she decided that I was passing her around to my friends.
I looked at it as I was getting mutual friends laid. That explanation worked, as it was the truth, and we now live with each other, and are boyfriend and girlfriend that are happy when we get each other laid.
I looked at it as I was getting mutual friends laid. That explanation worked, as it was the truth, and we now live with each other, and are boyfriend and girlfriend that are happy when we get each other laid.
62
"As for the LW's first question, the trend of the previous visit sounds as if the request is coming from an attitude of privilege and service consumption.'
Hey Venomminion, are you getting deja vu?
The last letter was about somebody wanting to indulge a fantasy and not be a horse's ass to his gay friends. This letter is about a horse's ass wanting his gay friend to indulge a fantasy.
Either way, the answer is the same...Just Say No to horse's asses (no offence to real live horses) and find a nice professional, treat him very nicely, and tip him well.
Hey Venomminion, are you getting deja vu?
The last letter was about somebody wanting to indulge a fantasy and not be a horse's ass to his gay friends. This letter is about a horse's ass wanting his gay friend to indulge a fantasy.
Either way, the answer is the same...Just Say No to horse's asses (no offence to real live horses) and find a nice professional, treat him very nicely, and tip him well.
63
@31: Slut-shaming's not the only factor. There's also the risk of pregnancy, and the fact that your average woman is less able to fight off the average man if things go south.
64
Lived the straight version of this in high school. The guys were HOT.
Wish I would have stopped at the first guy, and just at blowjobs. But y'all knew that already didn't ya?
Still love that scene in Chasing Amy when Joey Lauren Adams screams at Ben Affleck in the parking lot in the pouring rain about "fingercuffs". So familiar.
Wish I would have stopped at the first guy, and just at blowjobs. But y'all knew that already didn't ya?
Still love that scene in Chasing Amy when Joey Lauren Adams screams at Ben Affleck in the parking lot in the pouring rain about "fingercuffs". So familiar.
65
Ms Slinky - Exactly. It would be nice to be able to email this letter to the previous LW and say - DON'T BECOME THIS, which is really why I want him doing whatever he eventually does with other straight men.
As I said in the other thread, I don't want gay men hurt to satisfy straight men's whims. And where oh where is this one heading fast? Good for the LW for standing up for himself. At his age, I'd probably have been too "polite" to object.
As I said in the other thread, I don't want gay men hurt to satisfy straight men's whims. And where oh where is this one heading fast? Good for the LW for standing up for himself. At his age, I'd probably have been too "polite" to object.
66
Mr Douglas - I'll agree that you've chosen a better example for his case than he did himself. But I thought my remark mainly a bit of embroidery to your first sentence in 48.
68
@39 Nothing in the letter implies that the friends are liberal gay friendly types and it's downright dangerous to assume so. Hell even if they are just because someone is cool with in theory doesn't mean they'll feel that way in practice.
That the friend offered without checking with COCK first is a major red flag to me. As others have COCK doesn't know these guys. He doesn't know if they're on the up and up, or if they're planning a cruel prank, or if after getting a blowjob they'll freak out and beat the shit out of him. And honestly that's not a risk he should take.
Also COCK stop clinging to this friendship. Your friend has his own issues to work out and you need to start living your own life. I think you're seeing something in him that isn't there anymore or was never there to begin with. Find some new friends.
That the friend offered without checking with COCK first is a major red flag to me. As others have COCK doesn't know these guys. He doesn't know if they're on the up and up, or if they're planning a cruel prank, or if after getting a blowjob they'll freak out and beat the shit out of him. And honestly that's not a risk he should take.
Also COCK stop clinging to this friendship. Your friend has his own issues to work out and you need to start living your own life. I think you're seeing something in him that isn't there anymore or was never there to begin with. Find some new friends.
69
I live next door to Volunteer Park, where on any given night I might see half a dozen men pacing around the bushes in search of an anonymous hookup. I've also seen the used condoms in those same bushes indicating that at least some of them succeed. I have yet to hear of a single report of violence.
Clearly, men, even closeted men, can fuck around anonymously with other men without anyone being beaten to death.
I don't have any deep insight into whether or not this is a good idea from an emotional standpoint, but all of the warnings of potential violence seems to be fueled by the worst male stereotypes. As for gay panic, I don't know of a single incident that started with the aggressor inviting a gay friend of a friend weeks in advance to come and suck his dick. How do you panic about something that has been weeks in the planning?
Clearly, men, even closeted men, can fuck around anonymously with other men without anyone being beaten to death.
I don't have any deep insight into whether or not this is a good idea from an emotional standpoint, but all of the warnings of potential violence seems to be fueled by the worst male stereotypes. As for gay panic, I don't know of a single incident that started with the aggressor inviting a gay friend of a friend weeks in advance to come and suck his dick. How do you panic about something that has been weeks in the planning?
70
@68: Nothing in the letter implies that the friends are liberal gay friendly types
How about the fact that they are INVITING A GAY MAN TO SUCK THEIR DICKS? Doesn't that sort of suggest they are "gay friendly types?"
How about the fact that they are INVITING A GAY MAN TO SUCK THEIR DICKS? Doesn't that sort of suggest they are "gay friendly types?"
71
Well, Tim@39, "women" don't always have an easy time getting laid. Try being in your 50s and curvy (and I'm not even all that curvy!). It doesn't matter how GGG you are, or how forward, or how kind, funny, smart, charismatic, or whatever adjective you hope people assign to you. There will always be a 20 year old size 2 in line ahead of you.
72
@70. Nope. Just means they're horny. And as Dan said they may be cool with it up until it actually happens.
But then no ever lost out in underestimating the human race. Keep in mind these guys are accepting blow jobs from a complete stranger, so maybe their judgement isn't that great.
But then no ever lost out in underestimating the human race. Keep in mind these guys are accepting blow jobs from a complete stranger, so maybe their judgement isn't that great.
73
@71: What, you think being an older guy is tons of fun? Men aren't any better off than women. Getting old sucks.
75
@69: "Clearly, men, even closeted men, can fuck around anonymously with other men without anyone being beaten to death."
Sure. But violence does happen. You have to be careful and when you are dealing with a man, regardless of if you are a man or a woman, you have to take extra precautions.
I think it is easy for straight men to not get it because they typically have a physical advantage over the people they get involved with. Putting yourself in a vulnerable position with someone who you don't have an advantage over, or who still has an advantage over you, is a different story.
It's just like Dan tells the parents of gay boys that when they date they need to be as protective and concerned for them as if they had a girl dating boys. In the same way if you are a gay guy and you are going to be having sex with guys you need to be just as cautious of getting yourself into a situation you can't get yourself out of. If a girl agreed to go off to some guys room and give him and two other guys who are complete strangers blow jobs I think few would fail to see that was a dangerous situation to put yourself in. The same goes for a gay guy doing the same thing.
Because while the guys in question may be cool, and may not freak out, and may not do anything the person (boy or girl) hasn't agreed to already, there is no guarantee of that. Assaults do happen. And you don't want to find out that these guys aren't so cool or so safe by getting yourself in to a situation where you are basically at their mercy.
When dealing with strangers (or people who are becoming strangers to you) you don't take those kinds of chances even when the odds are in your favor.
Some straight guys can get a blow job from another guy and it's no big deal. But I will bet that the majority of gay guys will have at least one story of fooling around a guy who, afterwards, at the least made them uneasy in his reaction. And a closeted gay guy who claims to be straight is probably more of a risk than the truly straight guy who just wants to get his dick sucked. The dynamics of all this isn't always so simple and when you don't have the physical advantage over the other person you need to be cautious about getting yourself into shit.
More...
Sure. But violence does happen. You have to be careful and when you are dealing with a man, regardless of if you are a man or a woman, you have to take extra precautions.
I think it is easy for straight men to not get it because they typically have a physical advantage over the people they get involved with. Putting yourself in a vulnerable position with someone who you don't have an advantage over, or who still has an advantage over you, is a different story.
It's just like Dan tells the parents of gay boys that when they date they need to be as protective and concerned for them as if they had a girl dating boys. In the same way if you are a gay guy and you are going to be having sex with guys you need to be just as cautious of getting yourself into a situation you can't get yourself out of. If a girl agreed to go off to some guys room and give him and two other guys who are complete strangers blow jobs I think few would fail to see that was a dangerous situation to put yourself in. The same goes for a gay guy doing the same thing.
Because while the guys in question may be cool, and may not freak out, and may not do anything the person (boy or girl) hasn't agreed to already, there is no guarantee of that. Assaults do happen. And you don't want to find out that these guys aren't so cool or so safe by getting yourself in to a situation where you are basically at their mercy.
When dealing with strangers (or people who are becoming strangers to you) you don't take those kinds of chances even when the odds are in your favor.
Some straight guys can get a blow job from another guy and it's no big deal. But I will bet that the majority of gay guys will have at least one story of fooling around a guy who, afterwards, at the least made them uneasy in his reaction. And a closeted gay guy who claims to be straight is probably more of a risk than the truly straight guy who just wants to get his dick sucked. The dynamics of all this isn't always so simple and when you don't have the physical advantage over the other person you need to be cautious about getting yourself into shit.
76
Good points, Fortunate (@75, in response to 69), and I think that this situation is more potentially harmful for COCK than your comparative one of a girl going to blow three men.
These guys are young and presumably identify as straight. We don't know what COCK's friend has told them, but they may well feel embarrassed and ashamed after he blows them. The woman's most likely risk is that the sex acts wouldn't be confined to blow jobs and might escalate to rape; in this case, not only is rape a possibility, but a serious beating is, as well.
I realize that I sound hysterical, and I know that thousands of perfectly safe and consensual anonymous or train-style sex scenes happen all the time, but there are too many possibilities for things going badly wrong here. Not to mention that COCK is feeling used (and not in a good way) by his "friend." This is a time to err on the side of caution and self-respect. He will have other opportunities to be used in a good way by a group of men. I would imagine that the odds of him having a better, more enjoyable, and safer experience are higher if he does this with men who are gay and out.
These guys are young and presumably identify as straight. We don't know what COCK's friend has told them, but they may well feel embarrassed and ashamed after he blows them. The woman's most likely risk is that the sex acts wouldn't be confined to blow jobs and might escalate to rape; in this case, not only is rape a possibility, but a serious beating is, as well.
I realize that I sound hysterical, and I know that thousands of perfectly safe and consensual anonymous or train-style sex scenes happen all the time, but there are too many possibilities for things going badly wrong here. Not to mention that COCK is feeling used (and not in a good way) by his "friend." This is a time to err on the side of caution and self-respect. He will have other opportunities to be used in a good way by a group of men. I would imagine that the odds of him having a better, more enjoyable, and safer experience are higher if he does this with men who are gay and out.
77
I'm glad you gave the advice about being physically safe. To me, this sounds like a chance for the "friend" to keep his straight credential by beating up COCK, and they join in the beating. Just too vulnerable.
78
Anxiously waiting for the update from LW. And hoping the friend in question is just a little stupid about gay dudes who blow their FWBs still being people.
Fingers crossed for a "Aw, shoot. Well, that's cool" response.
Fingers crossed for a "Aw, shoot. Well, that's cool" response.
80
The more I think about this, the less I like that the friend phrased it by asking the LW if he were willing to service the others on his next visit. Not, "If you want, next time you come I could invite a friend or two over if you'd like to try multiple people," or even "I've told a couple of friends about you and they'd be up for a little party if you'd like that," but this.
As for what the friends are like, I think there's a middle possibility between closeted an liberal. I have a hard time seeing them as liberal and gay-friendly because, while it's one thing to maintain the FWB with an old friend even if arranged visits are involved, it's a bit of another to arrange a second-hand encounter with a stranger this far in advance. They might only have met the friend this semester to explain their not meeting the LW on a previous visit, but it would certainly have been in their favour if he had met them before. Given that liberal and gay-friendly types might well have formed their own FWBs or could meet potential servicers without being set up, I would guess that they're possibly more or less okay with gays in private but wouldn't be the sort to have gay friends openly.
As for what the friends are like, I think there's a middle possibility between closeted an liberal. I have a hard time seeing them as liberal and gay-friendly because, while it's one thing to maintain the FWB with an old friend even if arranged visits are involved, it's a bit of another to arrange a second-hand encounter with a stranger this far in advance. They might only have met the friend this semester to explain their not meeting the LW on a previous visit, but it would certainly have been in their favour if he had met them before. Given that liberal and gay-friendly types might well have formed their own FWBs or could meet potential servicers without being set up, I would guess that they're possibly more or less okay with gays in private but wouldn't be the sort to have gay friends openly.
81
@75, @76: I understand that in general a person has to be cautious when dealing with men as potential sexual partners.
What I don't get is what makes this scenario any more dangerous than, say, agreeing to go up to a man's apartment after a great first date. Seems to me that people are assuming the guys in question are fratboys, and that any sexual interaction with a fratboy is likely to end in gang rape or violence. Fratboys come in all different flavors, and ultimately, you can better predict whether a given man is trouble by the energy he gives off than knowing if he's in a frat.
Gay-bashers don't ask gay men out on dick-sucking dates, nor do they hang with straight men who boast of regularly getting head from gay men. If this letter is real, these guys are probably just young, curious, open-minded, adventurous, and horny as hell. I probably would have given this a try during a dry spell freshman year in college if the opportunity dropped into my lap, so to speak. Why not? You only live once.
What I don't get is what makes this scenario any more dangerous than, say, agreeing to go up to a man's apartment after a great first date. Seems to me that people are assuming the guys in question are fratboys, and that any sexual interaction with a fratboy is likely to end in gang rape or violence. Fratboys come in all different flavors, and ultimately, you can better predict whether a given man is trouble by the energy he gives off than knowing if he's in a frat.
Gay-bashers don't ask gay men out on dick-sucking dates, nor do they hang with straight men who boast of regularly getting head from gay men. If this letter is real, these guys are probably just young, curious, open-minded, adventurous, and horny as hell. I probably would have given this a try during a dry spell freshman year in college if the opportunity dropped into my lap, so to speak. Why not? You only live once.
82
What makes this somewhat more dangerous, seandr, is that it is not a date. It is a hookup. And these guys may be newbies/first-timers. "Straight guy remorse" is a real phenomenon, and a dangerous one. You haven't had cause to experience it, but many gay and bi guys have.
83
@81 Actually, in that world, women bashers wouldn't ask women out on dates either, and date rapes would never happen.
That's not to say that all guys wanting to try getting their cock sucked by a guy is a gay basher. Far from it. But, they do exist, and may actually be regarding the gay dude as little more than an object to relieve their lust, and violence may be a part of that. See: the dangers of hooking. This could be amplified if the dudes are genuinely homophobic and do have "straight guy remorse" in which case the guy feels regret, then blames the gay dude for luring him in, and yadda yadda yadda.
However.
This thread is one big nanny worry. The danger is present, but is it actual or imagined? WE. DON'T. KNOW. The only way to know if having met the straight dude bragging about using some gay guy for blowjobs.
That's not to say that all guys wanting to try getting their cock sucked by a guy is a gay basher. Far from it. But, they do exist, and may actually be regarding the gay dude as little more than an object to relieve their lust, and violence may be a part of that. See: the dangers of hooking. This could be amplified if the dudes are genuinely homophobic and do have "straight guy remorse" in which case the guy feels regret, then blames the gay dude for luring him in, and yadda yadda yadda.
However.
This thread is one big nanny worry. The danger is present, but is it actual or imagined? WE. DON'T. KNOW. The only way to know if having met the straight dude bragging about using some gay guy for blowjobs.
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@81
Sometime read-up on the night that led up to Matthew Shepard's murder. He left the bar with his killers. Matthew had just accepted their offer fro a ride home, not the psycho-sexual minefield of sex-acts across stated sexual-orientation. Hardcore, freak-out violence really does happen.
Having said that, I think the fear of physical danger has been turned way up in this discussion. The assumption seems to be that a guy the writer has been friends with for at least a year has probably turned into a violent predator. That's a little extreme. Which isn't to say that it's not worth the writer considering the worst case scenarios, but it seems like the emotional considerations the writer has expressed are a more realistic worry.
And, I think the writer showed a lot of wisdom in his response to Dan. While I've enjoyed this conversation, I'm actually not that worried about the guy. But like everyone else, I'm really curious how it turned out.
Sometime read-up on the night that led up to Matthew Shepard's murder. He left the bar with his killers. Matthew had just accepted their offer fro a ride home, not the psycho-sexual minefield of sex-acts across stated sexual-orientation. Hardcore, freak-out violence really does happen.
Having said that, I think the fear of physical danger has been turned way up in this discussion. The assumption seems to be that a guy the writer has been friends with for at least a year has probably turned into a violent predator. That's a little extreme. Which isn't to say that it's not worth the writer considering the worst case scenarios, but it seems like the emotional considerations the writer has expressed are a more realistic worry.
And, I think the writer showed a lot of wisdom in his response to Dan. While I've enjoyed this conversation, I'm actually not that worried about the guy. But like everyone else, I'm really curious how it turned out.
86
@81: "What I don't get is what makes this scenario any more dangerous than, say, agreeing to go up to a man's apartment after a great first date."
Going to a guys apartment after a great first date does have it's dangers. But the difference is that is a one to one situation. The letter writers situation is a 3 to 1 situation. Very bad odds.
I have turned down offers for three ways in the past when I didn't know the guys well even though they were openly gay and out because they knew each other and I didn't know them, and I wasn't about put myself into a situation where I was outnumbered by two guys I didn't know in a sexual situation. Were the odds in my favor that nothing bad would happen? Sure. But not all taking chances are equal, and I may have been overly cautious, but I can say this; I am still alive and have never been sexually assaulted, so I consider my caution to be a success.
"Seems to me that people are assuming the guys in question are fratboys"
I'm not. It doesn't make any difference if they are frat boys. Even if they were gay it is a situation I would recommend caution about. That they identify as straight makes me extra cautious. That they may or may not be in a frat is irrelevant.
"Gay-bashers don't ask gay men out on dick-sucking dates, nor do they hang with straight men who boast of regularly getting head from gay men."
Not true. Some straight guys get off on dominating other guys, and it is far from unheard of that a gay guy gets raped by a guy who identifies as straight. It happens in prison all the time, but it also happens out in the free world too.
The fact is that even these two new guys may not have any clue what their reaction will be after the fact. People do things and then freak out in a moment of regret. You take your chances anytime you get hot and heavy with someone you don't know well, and everyone has to decide what chances they are willing to take. It may seem like a bunch of scare mongering, but it really is just a bunch of us with a bit of experience saying that if it were us we would think twice about the safety issues. That doesn't mean that we are convinced they are gay hating rapists just waiting to pounce. It is that we would prefer he not find out if they are the hard way.
More...
Going to a guys apartment after a great first date does have it's dangers. But the difference is that is a one to one situation. The letter writers situation is a 3 to 1 situation. Very bad odds.
I have turned down offers for three ways in the past when I didn't know the guys well even though they were openly gay and out because they knew each other and I didn't know them, and I wasn't about put myself into a situation where I was outnumbered by two guys I didn't know in a sexual situation. Were the odds in my favor that nothing bad would happen? Sure. But not all taking chances are equal, and I may have been overly cautious, but I can say this; I am still alive and have never been sexually assaulted, so I consider my caution to be a success.
"Seems to me that people are assuming the guys in question are fratboys"
I'm not. It doesn't make any difference if they are frat boys. Even if they were gay it is a situation I would recommend caution about. That they identify as straight makes me extra cautious. That they may or may not be in a frat is irrelevant.
"Gay-bashers don't ask gay men out on dick-sucking dates, nor do they hang with straight men who boast of regularly getting head from gay men."
Not true. Some straight guys get off on dominating other guys, and it is far from unheard of that a gay guy gets raped by a guy who identifies as straight. It happens in prison all the time, but it also happens out in the free world too.
The fact is that even these two new guys may not have any clue what their reaction will be after the fact. People do things and then freak out in a moment of regret. You take your chances anytime you get hot and heavy with someone you don't know well, and everyone has to decide what chances they are willing to take. It may seem like a bunch of scare mongering, but it really is just a bunch of us with a bit of experience saying that if it were us we would think twice about the safety issues. That doesn't mean that we are convinced they are gay hating rapists just waiting to pounce. It is that we would prefer he not find out if they are the hard way.
87
Not true. Some straight guys get off on dominating other guys, and it is far from unheard of that a gay guy gets raped by a guy who identifies as straight.
Agreed. Not all rapist are creepy guys who hang out in dark alleys. Sometime they're charming men in business suits.
And not all gaybashers are rednecks who make moonshine in their spare time. Sometimes they're horny college kids who think 'a mouth is a mouth bro'.
Agreed. Not all rapist are creepy guys who hang out in dark alleys. Sometime they're charming men in business suits.
And not all gaybashers are rednecks who make moonshine in their spare time. Sometimes they're horny college kids who think 'a mouth is a mouth bro'.
88
@81:
After learning the hard way, I don't go back to guys' apartments/hotel rooms/etc. on a first date unless I'm okay with having sex with them.
After learning the hard way, I don't go back to guys' apartments/hotel rooms/etc. on a first date unless I'm okay with having sex with them.
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@81: "Gay-bashers don't ask gay men out on dick-sucking dates"
Good god, do you ever listen to the stupid shit that comes out of your mouth?
Like, do you ever have a filter that says "man that's fucking stupid, I shouldn't blather on" or do you just shit it out of your lips and bask in the glory?
Good god, do you ever listen to the stupid shit that comes out of your mouth?
Like, do you ever have a filter that says "man that's fucking stupid, I shouldn't blather on" or do you just shit it out of your lips and bask in the glory?
90
I don't know. This friendship thing sounds one sided. Did you two do anything outside of blowjobs? My red flag comes from the whole "straight" designation. Experience tells me that you should always proceed with caution forging a friendship with a straight guy that likes you sucking his dick.
I also sounds as if maybe your friend's fantasy to watch you do his friends. If you do it, please post videos on X tube. I'm more adventurous. I would live out this porn fantasy.
I also sounds as if maybe your friend's fantasy to watch you do his friends. If you do it, please post videos on X tube. I'm more adventurous. I would live out this porn fantasy.
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Put me in the camp that believes this letter is real; I don't think a faker would have responded to Dan's response, and if he did, I think the tone of that response would be radically different.
COCK--if you're still reading--here are what words of wisdom I have.
I was once seeing a therapist for several issues, and in the course of our conversations I talked about a FWB situation I had that seemed to be going sour. He said, "I see a lot of clients who have a friend with benefits, and based upon what I see, those relationships typically end in one of three ways: either the people involved grow into a committed relationship, or the sex goes away and the friendship remains, or the sex gets in the way of the friendship and the people involved wind up losing both."
A guy who identifies as straight isn't going to make any commitment to you. It sounds more like the sex is getting in the way of the friendship, and you're going to lose both. Cut your losses. Perhaps the friendship will ultimately remain, but it's time this guy started getting his blowjobs elsewhere, and his fraternity brothers can get their head someplace else as well.
COCK--if you're still reading--here are what words of wisdom I have.
I was once seeing a therapist for several issues, and in the course of our conversations I talked about a FWB situation I had that seemed to be going sour. He said, "I see a lot of clients who have a friend with benefits, and based upon what I see, those relationships typically end in one of three ways: either the people involved grow into a committed relationship, or the sex goes away and the friendship remains, or the sex gets in the way of the friendship and the people involved wind up losing both."
A guy who identifies as straight isn't going to make any commitment to you. It sounds more like the sex is getting in the way of the friendship, and you're going to lose both. Cut your losses. Perhaps the friendship will ultimately remain, but it's time this guy started getting his blowjobs elsewhere, and his fraternity brothers can get their head someplace else as well.
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@COCK, I want to know how the hell the first blow job ever happened. I really do. Will you share that story?
I believe this is legit... the only thing I find strange is that a straight guy would tell two other straight guys about his receiving blow jobs from another guy. But I guess if they really believe that only GIVING a blow job makes you gay, it's perfectly logical. I also think Internet porn is making people much bolder and kinkier. This would NOT have happened 30 years ago...
I believe this is legit... the only thing I find strange is that a straight guy would tell two other straight guys about his receiving blow jobs from another guy. But I guess if they really believe that only GIVING a blow job makes you gay, it's perfectly logical. I also think Internet porn is making people much bolder and kinkier. This would NOT have happened 30 years ago...
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