Slog Comments
The Seattle Times Newfound Arena Skepticism
1
When they say "Mayor Mike McGinn seems to think he will get re-elected if he pulls off a new sports facility," are they basing this on something that he's said or done? What particular insight into McGinn's thought process does the Seattle Times editors have?
2
Wow, you cut thru the cloudy stuff and got to the heart of the matter quickly, Goldy.
That plus the funding for that is what they were hoping to steal for their Billionaire Vanity Tunnel funding.
$200 million is a lot of cheddar.
That plus the funding for that is what they were hoping to steal for their Billionaire Vanity Tunnel funding.
$200 million is a lot of cheddar.
3
I don't know if you were in Seattle in 1996, Goldy, but that was the epic year for the Times and stadium shenanigans. There were two ballot measures: the Seattle Commons (a Paul Allen-backed plan in which about half his holdings in South Lake Union would be donated to make a giant park, with other land seized; it would have made the rest of his holdings much more valuable, but they were headed in that direction in any case), and the new Mariners stadium.
The Times (and with it the PI, which shared its printing presses) was bribed fair and square to back the Commons: the publisher wanted to close a city street between two of their buildings (related to the printing press, iirc) and build across it, for greater efficiency. This variance was granted, in return for the expectation they'd back the Commons. But the change was permitted too early, and having the payoff in hand the paper reneged, doing everything it could to torpedo the Commons, wanting to concentrate public support behind the other initiative, a billion-dollar giveaway to the owners of the Mariners. After all, the Mariners generate newsprint and sell papers, while all the Commons would do would be to save the heart of Seattle for green space and make the city more liveable.
My other memory of the time is the near joy of the professional staffers on Norm Rice's primary campaign for Governor when the guy whose campaign they'd supposedly been devoted to had finally lost the primary and they were freed up to go find better-paid, more enjoyable work on behalf of the stadium initiative.
The Times (and with it the PI, which shared its printing presses) was bribed fair and square to back the Commons: the publisher wanted to close a city street between two of their buildings (related to the printing press, iirc) and build across it, for greater efficiency. This variance was granted, in return for the expectation they'd back the Commons. But the change was permitted too early, and having the payoff in hand the paper reneged, doing everything it could to torpedo the Commons, wanting to concentrate public support behind the other initiative, a billion-dollar giveaway to the owners of the Mariners. After all, the Mariners generate newsprint and sell papers, while all the Commons would do would be to save the heart of Seattle for green space and make the city more liveable.
My other memory of the time is the near joy of the professional staffers on Norm Rice's primary campaign for Governor when the guy whose campaign they'd supposedly been devoted to had finally lost the primary and they were freed up to go find better-paid, more enjoyable work on behalf of the stadium initiative.
5
I have proposed that we, the metropolitan areas of Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, form a United Sports Consortium.
Together we have all five sports:
Canucks
Trailblazers
Mariners
Seahawks
Sounders
We each have stadiums that could handle the other teams. The Key. The Tacoma Dome.
So, my proposal is that we split the schedule of these teams across the 3 Metro areas. In this way we don't over saturate the sports market with too many games but at the same time allow fans in each city to see their favorite sport at least some times a year.
In the future, we would unite these areas with true high speed rail, 300 mph, making it possible to jump on a train and get to a game in 40 minutes.
Together we have all five sports:
Canucks
Trailblazers
Mariners
Seahawks
Sounders
We each have stadiums that could handle the other teams. The Key. The Tacoma Dome.
So, my proposal is that we split the schedule of these teams across the 3 Metro areas. In this way we don't over saturate the sports market with too many games but at the same time allow fans in each city to see their favorite sport at least some times a year.
In the future, we would unite these areas with true high speed rail, 300 mph, making it possible to jump on a train and get to a game in 40 minutes.
6
Im sure it has something to do with the Port of Seattle complaining about how the extra traffic from Safeco field and Link Light Rail already slows down the semi trucks, with the new arena, its going to get worse.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo…
I agree that McGinn is pushing this because of his piss poor approval ratings.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo…
I agree that McGinn is pushing this because of his piss poor approval ratings.
10
So it's got me thinking...
I want a house in Seattle, but I don't have any money. What if -- now stay with me here -- what if, the city sold some bonds and used the money to build me a house. Now here's the cool part! See, if they didn't do this for me, they'd collect less taxes on the land, right? *sad trombone*
But! But! Since I'm here to offer this good deal to the city, what I'm doing for them is asking them to borrow money to build me a house, and then they pay off the loan with the extra property taxes they bring in due to the fact that the land is now worth a lot more. Because of the house that never would have been built if not for the city borrowing the money for me.
In 30 short years, my house is paid off, with the extra taxes the city collected, and then the city can start rolling in the dough. Scot free! And I get a house! Win! Win! And Win!!! Who wants in?
Holy crap I'm a genius. This is the best deal ever.
I want a house in Seattle, but I don't have any money. What if -- now stay with me here -- what if, the city sold some bonds and used the money to build me a house. Now here's the cool part! See, if they didn't do this for me, they'd collect less taxes on the land, right? *sad trombone*
But! But! Since I'm here to offer this good deal to the city, what I'm doing for them is asking them to borrow money to build me a house, and then they pay off the loan with the extra property taxes they bring in due to the fact that the land is now worth a lot more. Because of the house that never would have been built if not for the city borrowing the money for me.
In 30 short years, my house is paid off, with the extra taxes the city collected, and then the city can start rolling in the dough. Scot free! And I get a house! Win! Win! And Win!!! Who wants in?
Holy crap I'm a genius. This is the best deal ever.
11
Do the math:
Bird in hand = 2 in bush.
In 2008 we had an NBA team that we were trying not to lose. (Bird in hand). Today we don't have an NBA team, but are trying to get one. (Two in bush).
Translation: In 2008 the city of Seattle would pay more dearly to keep what it had than it would now to get what it covets. ST's respective positions on the arena deal reflect that- go ball's out in '08, play it close to the vest now.
Goldy, this is why you shouldn't read the Editorial page without an adult nearby.
Bird in hand = 2 in bush.
In 2008 we had an NBA team that we were trying not to lose. (Bird in hand). Today we don't have an NBA team, but are trying to get one. (Two in bush).
Translation: In 2008 the city of Seattle would pay more dearly to keep what it had than it would now to get what it covets. ST's respective positions on the arena deal reflect that- go ball's out in '08, play it close to the vest now.
Goldy, this is why you shouldn't read the Editorial page without an adult nearby.
12
I'm sitting this one out because I know what happens whenever Seattle starts talking about stadiums: It's a done deal. And even when voters vote no to a new stadium, that mandate is overridden by city or state legislatures on the receiving end of special interests payola...because, you know, they know better than their electorate what we really want and need.
There's just no defending oneself against sports and real estate interests.
There's just no defending oneself against sports and real estate interests.
13
Goldy, start considering the Blethen family's real estate holdings (and their desperation to sell them) in SLU/Denny Triangle/Seattle Center areas.
Do you really think they are actually bothered by Amazon's business practices? or that Amazon recently bought the Clise family properties in SLU instead of the Blethen family land? They would love to force the new arena into SLU...
Do you really think they are actually bothered by Amazon's business practices? or that Amazon recently bought the Clise family properties in SLU instead of the Blethen family land? They would love to force the new arena into SLU...
14
Goldy, take a look at who is opposing the deal, and you will have your real answer: industry (economic driver), maritime (trade), rail (freight, trade, one echelon below God), the Port (publicly elected landlords rent space for trade and tourism), and the Mariners (already sunk million into that, plus as bad as they are now, they are our team). Line that up, vs. a kinda shitty incompetent mayor, and some hedge fund guy out of the Bay Area. I think you have the real answer here; snark is not the same as fact in this case, and you shouldn't rest you entire premise on it. I realize that Stranger writers and (increasingly so) progressive bloggers live in a bubble, but there is a whole world out there, and a narrative that falls outside of the hipster single-issue paradigm.
15
I actually kinda dig bailo's proposal there. And all three cities could keep their respective soccer teams, allowing for us to retain an element of our intra-regional rivalry.
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