Slog Comments
A Communique About May Day
54
@49
I'm not sure those are problems for all anarchists, or all radicals, but they're definitely problems for Occupy.
It's probably worth remembering that Occupy isn't a randomly selected group of left-radicals. There were a few left-radical groups that were deliberately marginalized at the outset, in the initial planning General Assemblies prior to September 17 (e.g. Days of Rage, WWP). There were a few that for one reason or another never showed up at the beginning.
And there are quite a lot of left-radicals who have walked away from Occupy since it began, not out of boredom, but because they felt their core beliefs or concerns were being marginalized or ignored, or because they simply reached a point where they could no longer work within the rigidly enforced anarchist organizing structure we now call General Assembly (or more proximately, with its rather inevitable, erm, unconstrained internal politicking).
As occupiers never tire of telling us, Occupy is not The Left. But it's also true that Occupy is not The Radical Left. I think it was assumed from the beginning that Occupy would naturally and organically expand to look more and more like that ever-elusive grand coalition, but that isn't what's actually happening at all; of course, this is maybe more a problem with assumptions than with Occupy.
I'm not sure those are problems for all anarchists, or all radicals, but they're definitely problems for Occupy.
It's probably worth remembering that Occupy isn't a randomly selected group of left-radicals. There were a few left-radical groups that were deliberately marginalized at the outset, in the initial planning General Assemblies prior to September 17 (e.g. Days of Rage, WWP). There were a few that for one reason or another never showed up at the beginning.
And there are quite a lot of left-radicals who have walked away from Occupy since it began, not out of boredom, but because they felt their core beliefs or concerns were being marginalized or ignored, or because they simply reached a point where they could no longer work within the rigidly enforced anarchist organizing structure we now call General Assembly (or more proximately, with its rather inevitable, erm, unconstrained internal politicking).
As occupiers never tire of telling us, Occupy is not The Left. But it's also true that Occupy is not The Radical Left. I think it was assumed from the beginning that Occupy would naturally and organically expand to look more and more like that ever-elusive grand coalition, but that isn't what's actually happening at all; of course, this is maybe more a problem with assumptions than with Occupy.
53
@50
But aren't these folks going to look a tad foolish on Tuesday when there is no actual general strike, just the usual gathering of the perpetually aggrieved and a few dozen white anarchists and twice as many reporters?
But aren't these folks going to look a tad foolish on Tuesday when there is no actual general strike, just the usual gathering of the perpetually aggrieved and a few dozen white anarchists and twice as many reporters?
51
@39
I use to think that way, until I realized that that true anarchism is capitalism, no other system has the ability to rapidly adapt and open new markets and new innovations. Just look at the inventions that have come from the US in the last 100 years, I can fly across the ocean, get heart surgery and not die due to antibiotics (you can also thank the department of defense for that one).
Left anarchist are little more than communist scum doing the reds grunt work.
I use to think that way, until I realized that that true anarchism is capitalism, no other system has the ability to rapidly adapt and open new markets and new innovations. Just look at the inventions that have come from the US in the last 100 years, I can fly across the ocean, get heart surgery and not die due to antibiotics (you can also thank the department of defense for that one).
Left anarchist are little more than communist scum doing the reds grunt work.
50
The anarchist has spoken more coherently about this situation than McGinn and most news organizations.
49
Nice bit of thinking there roboslave (if that is your real name), a lack of historical context is a HUGE problem for Anarchists with no hyphen. A false sense if invulnerability and no concept of choosing good targets for the obviously short sighted juggarnaut of market capitalism are a few others, and not just anarchists. The problem is when you decide to take action against "the system", you now involve yourself in the world of consequences, intended or otherwise. And like #48 sez, we are wrapped up in that world a lot tighter than any of us would care to admitt.
48
"the system that exists only because we allow it to."
No, the system exists because we need it. If you doubt, me ask yourself; where did my last meal come from?
No, the system exists because we need it. If you doubt, me ask yourself; where did my last meal come from?
47
So the illegals are disowning the anarchists? The longshoremen want to kick Occupy's ass? The SPD are nicely rested up from November?
I may have to go down and watch the sparks fly.
I may have to go down and watch the sparks fly.
46
@45 Ian Funklewanker will have more luck finding another gerbil up his ass to stick on his head than proving Jennifer Pox was ever pregnant. Lying through his fauxhauk is his job as propaganda minister for Occupy Seattle.
44
So an anarcho-tool slaps up a poster, spray paints cryptic graffiti, attempts to barbecue a atm or two, Result? Yet more overtime for the cops. Yay! You have to wonder if Puget Sound Anarchists[TM] and the Police Guild are working covertly together. "May Day In Seattle: The Musical!"
43
@39
I think what you mean is that you do not believe that strong private property rights can exist without hierarchy and violence to support them, therefore "anarcho-capitalism" is an oxymoron, and anyone professing to hold such beliefs must be a crypto-statist.
That's not really an anarchist critique, of course-- it's cribbed from Marx.
It's interesting that many contemporary left-anarchists seek to delegitimize anarcho-capitalist ideas. David Graeber frequently says things like "I've never met a single anarcho-capitalist, but the internet sure is full of them." Presumably all that stuff on the internet is written by robots, and any people harboring any sort of anti-hierarchical worldview at all would of course have gone out of their way by now to introduce themselves to noted academic anarcho-socialists like David Graeber.
I think the game being played is same old historical ideological struggle, in which various factions* of self-identified anarchists try to secure the mantle of "true" anarchism. There have been several efforts in the past to unite various factions (as in "anarchism without hyphenation") which have fallen apart, because a shared loathing of hierarchy, as it turns out, isn't much of a moral foundation to build on.
So instead, today's anarcho-socialist faction (and the planners and initiators of OWS fell largely under that umbrella) simply regard propertarian-anarchists** as no true Scotsmen, when their existence is even acknowledged to begin with.
* OK, only one particular faction is really doing this, these days. Which is also interesting.
** among others; anarcho-primitives get the same treatment, though less vehemently.
@40 - way to show willingness to engage there, Ian. Totally proves you're not the brainwashed one in the room.
More...
I think what you mean is that you do not believe that strong private property rights can exist without hierarchy and violence to support them, therefore "anarcho-capitalism" is an oxymoron, and anyone professing to hold such beliefs must be a crypto-statist.
That's not really an anarchist critique, of course-- it's cribbed from Marx.
It's interesting that many contemporary left-anarchists seek to delegitimize anarcho-capitalist ideas. David Graeber frequently says things like "I've never met a single anarcho-capitalist, but the internet sure is full of them." Presumably all that stuff on the internet is written by robots, and any people harboring any sort of anti-hierarchical worldview at all would of course have gone out of their way by now to introduce themselves to noted academic anarcho-socialists like David Graeber.
I think the game being played is same old historical ideological struggle, in which various factions* of self-identified anarchists try to secure the mantle of "true" anarchism. There have been several efforts in the past to unite various factions (as in "anarchism without hyphenation") which have fallen apart, because a shared loathing of hierarchy, as it turns out, isn't much of a moral foundation to build on.
So instead, today's anarcho-socialist faction (and the planners and initiators of OWS fell largely under that umbrella) simply regard propertarian-anarchists** as no true Scotsmen, when their existence is even acknowledged to begin with.
* OK, only one particular faction is really doing this, these days. Which is also interesting.
** among others; anarcho-primitives get the same treatment, though less vehemently.
@40 - way to show willingness to engage there, Ian. Totally proves you're not the brainwashed one in the room.
42
It is clear that these anarchist man-children are full of their fecal matter. They try to use the May Day march to run and hide (or plan to) in order to throw rocks at windows. I'm sure a broken glass window will destroy the "repressive capitalist apparatus." What's less, its a group of middle class white kids and their token poc friends who are trying to tell poor working class immigrants what to do. What makes these anarchists better than some average asshole white nationalist or white supremacist? Indeed, the immigrant group even published a press release about this clash with our dear nihilist friends. See full text at this link: http://elcomitewa.wordpress.com/2012/01/…
41
It is clear that these anarchist man-children are full of their own fecal matter. They try to use the May Day march to run and hide (or plan to) in order to throw rocks at windows. I'm sure a broken glass window will destroy the "repressive capitalist apparatus." What's less, its a group of middle class white kids and their token poc friends who are trying to tell poor working class immigrants what to do. What makes these anarchists better than some average asshole white nationalist or white supremacist? Indeed, the immigrant group even published a press release about this clash with our dear nihilist friends. See full text at this link: http://elcomitewa.wordpress.com/2012/01/…
37
Occupiers should take time to read, listen and view the lectures here:
http://www.freedomainradio.com/Videos.as…
Such as How Much Government Is Necessary?" - Part 1 of the Debate
Stefan Molyneux presents himself as an "anarcho-capitalist". That is, he embraces private property...for the individual freedom it brings...while rejecting the use of force.
This combination of individuality plus rejection of force is far more appealing than Occupy's collectivism plus violence.
36
[I first want to thank Brendan for posting this...]
What's really boring is reading the comments from the moronic, liberal jack-offs who think their opinions about anything radical are somehow valid, even though the depth of their engagement on political subjects are incredibly shallow and (most likely) rooted firmly in privilege that allows them to ignore the consequences of their own lifestyle.
You know what's ACTUALLY "Utopian?" Thinking that the world is going to get better if you just support the "green economy" by driving a Prius, donate to the right charities, and buy organic so that you can feel good about yourself. Thinking that capitalism isn't all that bad simply because YOU have a relatively high standard of living (never mind the rest of the world, whose living conditions and general exploitation provide *all of that* to you!).
You know what's ACTUALLY "Idealist?" Believing that the horrible conditions of this world can somehow be remedied by simply choosing the right Democratic candidate to take "baby steps" (which they never do), and cynically dismissing anyone that dares to think outside of the box, or dares to put their ideas into action.
I'm sick of seeing people who do NOTHING in the community, know NOTHING about what it means to struggle politically, yet somehow think hurling insults from their ivory tower on Slog somehow holds weight.
We celebrate May Day every year because radicals fought for, and WON, an 8-hour work day, and anarchists (you know those people you love to make snarky comments about) gave their lives for it. It's much easier to set up a straw man about anarchists being idealist kids than it is to actually engage with the depth of their politics. I have the utmost respect for them, I'll be marching side-by-side with them on Tuesday in remembrance of our history, and the future that we'll never stop fighting for.
More...
What's really boring is reading the comments from the moronic, liberal jack-offs who think their opinions about anything radical are somehow valid, even though the depth of their engagement on political subjects are incredibly shallow and (most likely) rooted firmly in privilege that allows them to ignore the consequences of their own lifestyle.
You know what's ACTUALLY "Utopian?" Thinking that the world is going to get better if you just support the "green economy" by driving a Prius, donate to the right charities, and buy organic so that you can feel good about yourself. Thinking that capitalism isn't all that bad simply because YOU have a relatively high standard of living (never mind the rest of the world, whose living conditions and general exploitation provide *all of that* to you!).
You know what's ACTUALLY "Idealist?" Believing that the horrible conditions of this world can somehow be remedied by simply choosing the right Democratic candidate to take "baby steps" (which they never do), and cynically dismissing anyone that dares to think outside of the box, or dares to put their ideas into action.
I'm sick of seeing people who do NOTHING in the community, know NOTHING about what it means to struggle politically, yet somehow think hurling insults from their ivory tower on Slog somehow holds weight.
We celebrate May Day every year because radicals fought for, and WON, an 8-hour work day, and anarchists (you know those people you love to make snarky comments about) gave their lives for it. It's much easier to set up a straw man about anarchists being idealist kids than it is to actually engage with the depth of their politics. I have the utmost respect for them, I'll be marching side-by-side with them on Tuesday in remembrance of our history, and the future that we'll never stop fighting for.
34
@33 Exactly. If it wasn't for BoA these morons wouldn't be able to open an account or get a credit card anywhere. Life's ironies. But there's always mom and dad in Bellevue to turn to.
33
BOA #1432, Take 7!
Shakey-cam of protestor running from tear gas cannister.
He cuts into alleyway and slows to walk, then pulls down red scarf covering face and talks into camera.
I tried to open an account at a local credit union, something that was being promoted heavily by the left.
Once they checked my credit, they denied me.
However, were I to have walked three blocks down the street, Bank of America would have opened their arms to me.
This is a situation that thousands of other people find themselves in.
Cut to close up of Bankamericacard where the letters O-C-C-P-I-E-R get printed across the bottom.
VO: Bank of America...it lets me...be ME!!
31
@30
You've got to log in if you want to post links longer than 40 characters. If logging in cramps your style, use one of those infernal link-shorteners.
You've got to log in if you want to post links longer than 40 characters. If logging in cramps your style, use one of those infernal link-shorteners.
29
@24
Y'know, Ian, there might be some disagreement about who exactly is "brainwashed," when you seem to be regarding only a particular sort of "context" as legitimate.
Historically, anarchists have contributed to leftist causes. Historically, anarchists have also advocated lots of things that people who aren't anarchists disagree with rather pointedly. Historically, anarchists have abandoned some of those things, but of course can't abandon all of them without becoming something other than anarchists.
It's been so long since anyone has taken anarchists seriously that contemporary anarchists, younger ones especially, have grown up believing that no serious critique of anarchism exists at all. This is not the case, and has not been the case for longer than anyone presently living has been alive.
Y'know, Ian, there might be some disagreement about who exactly is "brainwashed," when you seem to be regarding only a particular sort of "context" as legitimate.
Historically, anarchists have contributed to leftist causes. Historically, anarchists have also advocated lots of things that people who aren't anarchists disagree with rather pointedly. Historically, anarchists have abandoned some of those things, but of course can't abandon all of them without becoming something other than anarchists.
It's been so long since anyone has taken anarchists seriously that contemporary anarchists, younger ones especially, have grown up believing that no serious critique of anarchism exists at all. This is not the case, and has not been the case for longer than anyone presently living has been alive.
28
@24 Hey fuckwit Ian Finklewanker, where's that paper work you promised for Jennifer Pox's run-away fetus? You're a fucking punch line here in Seattle.
That's right, the fetus vanished up your ass. Maybe that gerbil you pulled from your fetid ass, dyed pink and stuck to your head knows where Jennifer Fox's spawn is hiding?
Happy Genral Strike. Expect 200 morons max. the other 3 million in Puget Sound will be getting one with their lives.
That's right, the fetus vanished up your ass. Maybe that gerbil you pulled from your fetid ass, dyed pink and stuck to your head knows where Jennifer Fox's spawn is hiding?
Happy Genral Strike. Expect 200 morons max. the other 3 million in Puget Sound will be getting one with their lives.
26
you know what is actually offensive to the sensibilities of right -thinking seattleites? the line up for the capitol hill block party (at left). anarchist? sorry, the rest of y'all can hug the hierarchy, work, capitalism, the whole kit'n'kaboodle while bemoaning those who seek to eliminate it and its' adherents, but really, chbp? that is the best you can do?
24
I love Tides. You guys look at something written with passion and experience and laugh at it because you don't have the same context anarchists do. Fine. Sit on your couch and do nothing but bitch. As usual. People like the author of this missive will be busy fighting for labor, people of color, disadvantaged youth, queers, and the downtrodden. Your cynicism helps no one but the people who have brainwashed you to accept oppression.
23
@18
SLOG's already got commenters all over that one.
Presumably, this whole thing is just undercover cops provoking other undercover cops to attack uniformed cops, who then use the excuse thus manufactured to do all the real violence against the entirely innocent, peaceful protesters who unanimously and autonomously seek not just an end to economic injustice, nor even an end to the present structure of American society, but an end to any and all systems of social organization that have got Hierarchy in them.
SLOG's already got commenters all over that one.
Presumably, this whole thing is just undercover cops provoking other undercover cops to attack uniformed cops, who then use the excuse thus manufactured to do all the real violence against the entirely innocent, peaceful protesters who unanimously and autonomously seek not just an end to economic injustice, nor even an end to the present structure of American society, but an end to any and all systems of social organization that have got Hierarchy in them.
22
No, better yet, let's murder all anarchists. I'll go start gathering sticks to burn them with, fucking witches. How fucking dare they talk about stealing from our co-op.
21
Why does it have to be on the news when some occofuck has taged it on the stairwell, over and over again, at school?
20
No, what's really boring is the endless screeds and manifestos of the gearless anarchist, spinning and spinning the pointless verbiage of his wasted education into webs of nothing, connected to nothing, signifying nothing.
I do hope our little friend here tries to steal some organic food from the people who work so hard to make it available to us, and gets caught, and gets to spend some time having his spirit broken in the prison-industrial complex. That would be funny. Just don't come back.
I do hope our little friend here tries to steal some organic food from the people who work so hard to make it available to us, and gets caught, and gets to spend some time having his spirit broken in the prison-industrial complex. That would be funny. Just don't come back.
19
There's a little switch in my head that flips to "DON'T TAKE SERIOUSLY" whenever someone starts referring to police as "pigs." We are not in middle school, scratching Black Flag logos into our Trapper Keepers.
I might actually prefer the anarchist alternative when it comes to stealing meat. Instead of calling the cops, we can just beat the shit out of the thief. Probably a better deterrent when it comes down to it.
I might actually prefer the anarchist alternative when it comes to stealing meat. Instead of calling the cops, we can just beat the shit out of the thief. Probably a better deterrent when it comes down to it.
18
Here's what you do, chief: put it out and around that anybody who smashes shit up is not really an anarchist, but a police plant.
15
You can't spell ANACHRONISM without ANARCHISM.
Or can you? Hmm. On further reflection, I honestly don't give a shit.
Or can you? Hmm. On further reflection, I honestly don't give a shit.
14
Wait, is this a Monty Python script?
" If I get caught stealing non-polluted meat from the co-op, the employees will get upset and call the police. If I have bad credit, the friendly credit-union will deny me membership. I do not want to have to eat filth every day, nor do I want to have to pay for organic food. "
Apparently it's wOrk they object to.
" If I get caught stealing non-polluted meat from the co-op, the employees will get upset and call the police. If I have bad credit, the friendly credit-union will deny me membership. I do not want to have to eat filth every day, nor do I want to have to pay for organic food. "
Apparently it's wOrk they object to.
11
"...their system of death..."
Jebus, they got an alternative? This screed reads like the writer read a book. Once.
Jebus, they got an alternative? This screed reads like the writer read a book. Once.
9
Just a minor char, pigs on the roof, .....
My goodness dear Eli, I would say that the char is now on Pullitzer prize.
My goodness dear Eli, I would say that the char is now on Pullitzer prize.
8
@1:
They're obviously confused about who owns what: KIRO-AM is owned by Bonneville International, a wholly owned subsidiary of the CJCLDS, whereas KIRO-TV is in fact owned by Cox Communications out of Atlanta, which, so far as media conglomerates go, is pretty liberal.
They're obviously confused about who owns what: KIRO-AM is owned by Bonneville International, a wholly owned subsidiary of the CJCLDS, whereas KIRO-TV is in fact owned by Cox Communications out of Atlanta, which, so far as media conglomerates go, is pretty liberal.
4
What a bunch of fucking drivel. "No economy, no money, no banks"? Welcome back to barter and subsistence farming.
1
"Mormon controlled Kiro 7 News"
So are we now alleging that there is a Mormon media conspiracy? Careful what you say... You might end up being thought of as the person that created a new religious intolerance movement.
Consider this, if someone said "Jewish Controlled Kiro 7", would that not sound anti-Semitic? If so, then consider your words, as they are tantamount to the aforementioned.
So are we now alleging that there is a Mormon media conspiracy? Careful what you say... You might end up being thought of as the person that created a new religious intolerance movement.
Consider this, if someone said "Jewish Controlled Kiro 7", would that not sound anti-Semitic? If so, then consider your words, as they are tantamount to the aforementioned.
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