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1
The Abbey, where Liz Taylor used to slip in the side door! Where my favorite ex-boyfriend asked for a vodka with lunch and was cheerfully served a pint glass full.
Posted by gloomy gus on May 25, 2012 at 12:57 PM · Report this
bleedingheartlibertarian 2
I am broadly pro the banning of bachelorette parties. For any reason, really.
Posted by bleedingheartlibertarian on May 25, 2012 at 12:58 PM · Report this
3
As a straight girlfriend who is for marriage equality, I am pro-this as well.
Posted by JenV on May 25, 2012 at 12:59 PM · Report this
4
"We love and accept you gals all the time. All the time other than when we have a visceral reaction to seeing you in a tiara. Letting our feelings decide who we accept is how we want the world to work. Nobody else is to apply the same criteria to us."

Sincerely,
Management, The Abbey
Posted by my captcha says "idiots" on May 25, 2012 at 1:03 PM · Report this
merry 5
Damn straight!

Er, I mean.. Yes, I am pro-this, too!
Posted by merry on May 25, 2012 at 1:04 PM · Report this
bgk 6
@4 Waaaaaaa! The gays are being honest with straight people. Waaaa! My privilege is showing.

That's you
Posted by bgk on May 25, 2012 at 1:05 PM · Report this
Cato the Younger Younger 7
A FUCKING MEN!!!

Straight ladies are more then welcome to visit our bars but they are guests....They can keep their parties at hetro bars that specialize in this stuff for straight women.
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on May 25, 2012 at 1:12 PM · Report this
icouldliveinhope 8
@6: SECONDED.
Posted by icouldliveinhope on May 25, 2012 at 1:12 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 9
As a wise man once pointed out, "You go, girl!" May gay bars across the country do likewise.
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on May 25, 2012 at 1:12 PM · Report this
10
I can totally see why they would do this and it's very reasonable... but I highly doubt that the women are *unaware* of the legal status of gay marriage.
Posted by jkjk on May 25, 2012 at 1:13 PM · Report this
11
Gay bars are not tourist attractions, petting zoos or slumming grounds. They are our safe spaces and sanctuaries. If you are there to flaunt your straight privilege, expect to be ejected.
Posted by randomitis on May 25, 2012 at 1:14 PM · Report this
Original Andrew 12
The thing that I like best about the Abbey is that everyone has been really friendly and welcoming on the occasions that I've gone there. Very surprising in a large city like LA. This seems unnecessarily rude, divisive, and pointless. And if I'm looking for that, I'll just go to (insert any Capitol Hill gay bar name here).
Posted by Original Andrew on May 25, 2012 at 1:14 PM · Report this
Pridge Wessea 13
@12 - "This seems unnecessarily rude, divisive, and pointless."

I completely disagree.
Posted by Pridge Wessea on May 25, 2012 at 1:18 PM · Report this
BLUE 14
I'm pro a business accepting or declining revenue from whatever source allows them to think they're doing the right thing. If it was my gay bar I'd be happy to serve bachelorettes, Rush Limbaugh, Godzilla, ... So long as the tab was covered and 20% gratuity include.
Posted by BLUE on May 25, 2012 at 1:20 PM · Report this
15
@6 It looks like you are stating that you can discriminate as long as your discrimination meets two criteria. One is that you are "honest" about it and the second is that you only discriminate against people with "privilege."

Gotcha.
Posted by eye for an eye on May 25, 2012 at 1:21 PM · Report this
pfffter 16
@12 Creating a monolith out of Capitol Hill gay bar culture seems unnecessarily rude, divisive, and pointless.
Posted by pfffter on May 25, 2012 at 1:21 PM · Report this
seandr 17
Gay bars have been hating on straight female guests as long as i can remember. The only thing new is using marriage equality as a cover.
Posted by seandr on May 25, 2012 at 1:21 PM · Report this
biffp 18
Interesting post about bigotry getting thrown in as 'media balance.' It really is timing to stop entertaining the notion that there should be any debate about human rights.

http://deadspin.com/5913309/the-ap-is-ga…
Posted by biffp on May 25, 2012 at 1:24 PM · Report this
19
@10, Not unaware, no, but maybe they haven't put any thought about into how getting smashed and crazy all over a gay bar to celebrate their impending marriage might feel to the other patrons who don't have the same rights.
Posted by JenV on May 25, 2012 at 1:25 PM · Report this
20
I'm equally uncomfortable with this as I am with Barney's Beanery, about a mile away, having a "No fags allowed" sign at least as recently as 1994. Exclusionary policies are still exclusionary.

Bachelorettes should know better but in the bar/hospitality business, putting up with asshole behavior is part of the gig.
Posted by BornAgainInBellevue on May 25, 2012 at 1:28 PM · Report this
21
Well done, Abbey. I'm sure voting booths for the fellas weren't too popular at Sufragette meetings either.
Posted by Mason on May 25, 2012 at 1:30 PM · Report this
Cato the Younger Younger 22
@many of you...I thought the bar was banning the bachelorette parties...NOT straight women? I think some of you have missed the point.
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on May 25, 2012 at 1:31 PM · Report this
merry 23
@ 20 - "...as recently as 1994."

So, eighteen years ago a nearby cafe had a patently illegal sign posted, and that's why you don't support The Abbey in this action?

Uh, yeah, okay....
Posted by merry on May 25, 2012 at 1:35 PM · Report this
24
@23

It was a small sticker among hundreds on the wall behind the bar. I can't say I ever saw evidence that it was policy but once I noticed it, I stopped patronizing the place. In both cases, the business is telling a group of people that they are not welcome to engage in legal behavior in their establishment. I've been to the Abbey quite a bit and they have no "No tiaras, no penis clothing or accessories" dress code. So.....
Posted by BornAgainInBellevue on May 25, 2012 at 1:43 PM · Report this
seandr 25
@7: My experience is that many gay bars allow straight women, assuming they don't call too much attention to themselves, but they don't exactly welcome them. Whatever, its kind of lame but at the same time perfectly understandable - too many women will fuck up the vibe that draws gay patrons there in the first place.
Posted by seandr on May 25, 2012 at 1:47 PM · Report this
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 26
It's the way females cackle after they've got two drinks in them I can't bear. Stop cackling.

You know who you are.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn http://youtu.be/zu-akdyxpUc on May 25, 2012 at 2:01 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 27
@11, well, don't you worry your pretty little perfectly-groomed about that, sugar! i steer far clear of gay bars unless i am specifically invited as a guest and do the paperwork for a temporary entrance visa, good for two hours max for each visit. and i don't donate to gay nonprofits, lest i taint their funds with my hetero cash.

there. happy?
Posted by scary tyler moore http://pushymcshove.blogspot.com/ on May 25, 2012 at 2:15 PM · Report this
28
@26 and with 26 posts we've gone from marriage equality to straight-up misogyny. Well done, fellas.

As a full-stop, LTR with both sexes bisexual, I'm rolling my eyes. Gay bars are great, but let's stop pretending like they have any special meaning, and please let's drop the mythic 'brotherhood of gays' that apparently a lot of people put stock in (we're just as predatory and assholish as everyone else - being persecuted doesn't change that) I've never felt particularly safer or more welcome in a gay bar than anywhere else, but ho hum, lady-banging privilege I suppose.

But hey, fuck all that noise. If this bar is stupid enough to forbid sources of revenue in a recession ("females" do like their drinks at a bachelorette party, right guys?) more power to them, but the marriage equality reason rings fucking hollow. Gay bars are for dancing, drinking, and having fun. I've never seen a voter registration booth in a gay bar. I've never been asked about my politics waiting to use the bathroom. It's disingenuous that all of a sudden we're treating these places as sanctified ground and yes, it does faintly reek of gratuitous woman hating, especially a certain kind of woman who's not 'enlightened' enough to understand they're 'abusing their privilege.'
Posted by johnjjeeves on May 25, 2012 at 2:18 PM · Report this
rob! 29
So sorry not to have been able to give the Abbey any business these last few years. A sprawling rabbit-warren of gaymanity, and a lovely place to sit outside under a patio heater on one of those occasional foggy nights in L.A. when the city falls eerily quiet.
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on May 25, 2012 at 2:25 PM · Report this
30
This whole thing to me seems like a straight bar saynig they allow gay people to enter as long as they dnot "act faggy."

Can someone show me how this is different?
Posted by lollers on May 25, 2012 at 2:28 PM · Report this
blip 31
But... women are still allowed at The Abbey, just not bachelorette parties. I think people are casting aspersions on this specific bar based on the fact that yes, *some* gay bars are indeed hostile towards women, as are *some* gay bar clientele, regardless of the establishment's policies. I've never been to The Abbey but I'm pretty sure it's not one of those kind of gay bars.

If The Abbey's ownership wants to make a political statement about marriage equality in a state where same sex marriage was banned at the ballot box a few years ago they have every right to do so. If you don't understand why this might be a sensitive issue for gay people living in California then I don't know what else to tell you, except maybe take your business elsewehere? I doubt The Abbey will miss your patronage.
Posted by blip on May 25, 2012 at 2:30 PM · Report this
32
@20

False equivalence. The bar isn't banning straight women, not even straight women who are about to be married. They are barring using their bar as a place to hold a separate party that will both be disruptive of their other patrons and at the same time celebrating something that their regular patrons don't have access to.
Posted by Lymis on May 25, 2012 at 2:31 PM · Report this
33
The Abbey hasn't been a gay bar since the bachelorette parties took it over 10 years ago. This is hardly news.

I miss the days when The Abbey was a nice, quiet coffee shop with good food.
Posted by robdaemon on May 25, 2012 at 2:37 PM · Report this
34
Ever seen a tiara on a girl at Pony or The Cuff? Nope. Not unless said girl has a cock, anyhow. Neighbors and RPlace? Hetero chicks for days.

My point: some gay bars just don't attract bachelorette parties. They tend to be less flashy, less modern, less...like a Pioneer Square or Belltown club. If your gay bar is getting mobbed by the soon-to-be-wed, maybe you're doing it wrong.
Posted by Subdued Excitement on May 25, 2012 at 2:46 PM · Report this
35
#28, I completely agree.

I went to Pony for my bachelorette party simply because it was the only place on Capitol Hill playing the music my friends and I like to dance to on the weekends. It was particularly awesome that night because it happened to be women spinning riot grrrl bands. No one there treated us like crap, my bi-friend met a transexual guy who became a great friend and her date to my wedding, and no one chose to be fucking uptight and anti-straight woman towards us, and for that, I will forever love Pony.

Obviously it's a fucking travesty that gays aren't allowed to marry, but straight women going out dancing are not the enemy here, and whatever assumptions you have about their motives for going to a gay bar say more about your own issues with women than anything. And if you just hate the sound of their laughter? Well, that's just fucked up.
Posted by virginia mason on May 25, 2012 at 2:46 PM · Report this
seandr 36
@30: no, it's more like all the straight clubs that make dudes wait in line while women go right in without paying a cover. If you are a straight club, a sausage fest is very bad for your reputation. Likewise, if you're a gay club, a cooter fest is bad for business.
Posted by seandr on May 25, 2012 at 2:47 PM · Report this
Last of the Time Lords 37
@36 or a cougar fest....
Posted by Last of the Time Lords on May 25, 2012 at 2:49 PM · Report this
38
Can't we just ban Bachelorette Parties from all bars?
Posted by tkc on May 25, 2012 at 3:01 PM · Report this
Vince 39
I am anti-this. It would be better to hand out marriage equality leaflets than banning anything. I'm presuming this bar was making money from these. And the girls need a good time. They aren't preventing anyone's marriage. Make them allies.
Posted by Vince on May 25, 2012 at 3:05 PM · Report this
venomlash 40
@38: I second this motion, and make a few vigorous fist-pumping motions of my own in its support.
Posted by venomlash on May 25, 2012 at 3:06 PM · Report this
reverend dr dj riz 41
i never got to wear a penis hat the week before i got married.. so ummm yeah..
Posted by reverend dr dj riz on May 25, 2012 at 3:11 PM · Report this
lilmonster206 42
Fuck the gay bar for a bachelorette party! I want titties in my face, anyway!
Posted by lilmonster206 on May 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM · Report this
43
@20 - You're off by a decade: the sign at Barney's Beanery was removed in 1984, not 1994, soon after West Hollywood incorporated as a city.
Posted by Jared Bascomb on May 25, 2012 at 3:28 PM · Report this
seandr 44
@38: No, that's a wicked, evil proposal!

Any institution that sexually disinhibits women should be protected, even mandated, by Law. Since women aren't going to wear penis hats if there are too many straight guys around, gay bars should be required to host these events on certain designated nights, and the city should compensate their patrons with free drinks for their invaluable contribution towards the common good.

@41: Well now that's just a damn shame.
Posted by seandr on May 25, 2012 at 3:29 PM · Report this
45
@38 - Oh, yes, please! I got dragged to one only once (back when most of my friends were getting married off, I was working night shift and had an excuse not to go), and it was in New Orleans. It was awful. In my opinion, Bourbon Street is generally awful and overcrowded and overrated, but when you are with a bunch of screechy women who don't seem to realize they aren't in their 20s anymore, it is downright miserable.
Posted by Sheryl on May 25, 2012 at 3:30 PM · Report this
TVDinner 46
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but it just seems so rude to intrude on someone else's space and boisterously flaunt the fact that you're about to do what they can't. I get wanting a night off to let down your guard and feel safe from the male gaze, but to do it so disrespectfully just rubs me the wrong way. I actually didn't attend my well-meaning, clueless friend's bachelorette party precisely so I wouldn't be an accomplice to this kind of behavior, and sure enough, she spent most of her time in a penis hat in gay bar. Sigh.
Posted by TVDinner http:// on May 25, 2012 at 3:40 PM · Report this
47
@32,

In the bar world, a Bachelorette party is no more disruptive. Than a birthday party among people of a certain age. Both involve rude customers, noise and many shots.
Posted by BornAgainInBellevue on May 25, 2012 at 3:49 PM · Report this
icouldliveinhope 48
@15: Straight ladies are welcome, they just can't have bachelorette parties there -- and given the marriage-centric mainstream political landscape around LGBTQ rights right now, that is completely, totally fucking valid. A bachelorette party by itself right now isn't necessarily a political act, but a straight bachelorette party in a gay bar is a politically-charged situation. And as someone else said, it's not a petting zoo. This kind of OHHH MY PRIVILEGE HURTS I AM BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST rhetoric would only work if we were living in a vacuum. Sorry dude, we're not, and this is Serious Business right now, and it's fucking insulting to show up at a space made by/for those who don't have marriage equality right now with all the hetero marriage privilege. I say this as a lady in a live-in relationship with a dude.

Any other bar can restrict any other kind of party they want, also -- and this is no different. Lighten up and start the world's first entitled straight person bar. OH WAIT, THEY ARE ALREADY EVERYWHERE.
Posted by icouldliveinhope on May 25, 2012 at 3:51 PM · Report this
switzerblog 49
Wow, some of you folks who have the legal option of getting married sure are sensy-poo about not being allowed to celebrate it when-, where-, and however you want! Here are the reasons you cannot NOT serve someone: They are gay/other fuck option you don't like*, female/other gender option you don't like, Jewish/Catholic/other cult you don't like, black/mexican/other shade you don't like. Otherwise, the sign says we reserve the right to refuse service. They don't have to let you have your silly party. They don't have to let you be a tourist and point and giggle at their fabulous gay ways. I think straight girls will survive this temporary abridgment of their right to act like twats before they get married in one bar while gays wait for their own right to get married in the first place to be recognized.

*may not apply in your state
Posted by switzerblog on May 25, 2012 at 3:51 PM · Report this
icouldliveinhope 50
Also, 32 is right, and less long-winded than me.
Posted by icouldliveinhope on May 25, 2012 at 3:53 PM · Report this
bedipped 51
Would an equivalency with racism be a party of white people visiting an other-side-of-the-tracks jazz club pre-Brown vs Topeka BoE? The guests might have a great time and the hosts might appreciate the money, but the regulars and staff are unfailingly reminded of their second class status in a place where one hopes to escape such things. A weekly hosting of the more privileged would just suck, especially with the exact privilege as cause for celebration.

Posted by bedipped on May 25, 2012 at 4:13 PM · Report this
Michael of the Green 52
If for no other reason that it prevents people from making a spectacle of a privilege that they do not share with the regular patrons, I am very pro-this. In fact, it's kind of dickish for women to flaunt their impending nuptials in a place like that. WTF?
Posted by Michael of the Green on May 25, 2012 at 4:20 PM · Report this
bedipped 53
like 46, 48, & 49 said quicker than me.
Posted by bedipped on May 25, 2012 at 4:24 PM · Report this
reverend dr dj riz 54
@47.. i've worked in bars that fell victim to bacehlorette parties and they have indeed been much more disruptive than just loud people drinking shots til they puke - which they do.. i've seen them harass, touch, fondle, and grab other patrons. it's not uncommon to see fights break out because of their behavior. that they can get married adds a degree of insult to injury, but i would think that bars are well within to limit them even after gays get marriage equality. bars have all sorts of rules of comportment and even dress. - no open toed shoes, sneakers, to backward baseball caps. this seems more of a statement than anything else, but it makes sense to me
and reiterate they're not banning straight women or even groups of straight women, but bachelorette parties which turn out to be people who target gay bars specifically so they can safely misbehave.
Posted by reverend dr dj riz on May 25, 2012 at 4:27 PM · Report this
reverend dr dj riz 55
..and.. does anybody remember a few years ago when gay men were using social networks and cell phones to declare unsuspecting straight bars gay for a night ? the gays would show up en masses and do nothing but be their gay ole selves. i never went to any of those but i recall that there were instances where shit got really tense..and they weren't being loud , disruptive or even making out straights that make out like hares in heat in gay bars are equally tacky. and it happens fairly frequently.
Posted by reverend dr dj riz on May 25, 2012 at 4:34 PM · Report this
TrevCat 56
Lets do a little thought experiment here. Let us pretend that instead of it being a bachelorette party at a gay bar, why not a gay bachelor/bachelorette party at a straight bar?

Hard to imagine isn't it? Do you know why? Gays would be looked at strangely at least, perhaps given shitty service, and even threatened with/have used against them, violence. A lesbian bachlerotte party would have every straight male making dumb comments the mintue they here the word lesbian.

So where do the gays go if they want to be somewhere safe created for them? Gay bars! Amazing that gays want to go to a bar where they aren't reminded of what they can't have. Shame on them for denying straight girls the right to use their bar as a petting zoo and so severely limiting their choice.

All this has been said though. However, what hasn't been said really, and this amazes me.....why aren't we calling out the assholes in straight bars that cause women to seek out gay bars to be safe? I've seen those evil gays being called anti women for not wanting to give them the right to use their bar as a petting zoo, but where's the pitchfork yeilding mob for the guys that drove the women out of the straight bars?

It is so much simpler to throw it back it gays faces when they make a rule like this. The other options would be either actually supporting marriage equality or *gasp* not training men from a young age to be entitled privileged little asses.

Also, as I believe is full disclosure, I'm a white bi-sexual male currently in a relationship with a girl. I know I have privelege and I strive to help change that and at the very least not go around smacking everyone with it.
Posted by TrevCat on May 25, 2012 at 4:40 PM · Report this
bedipped 57
@54 "safely misbehave"
Thanks for that. It had crossed my mind about bachelorette parties wanting a place to be drunk and wild and "out of control" with male sexuality visible but male pursuit unlikely. Admittedly that's where my analogy with race breaks down, because a white party wouldn't have made a particular club choice with considerations of escaping another oppressor in mind.
Posted by bedipped on May 25, 2012 at 4:45 PM · Report this
58
@57: Aren't female heteros the only ones who can find a place to "safely misbehave"? Why should they be given that opportunity when no one else can?
Posted by Approaching 40 in LA on May 25, 2012 at 5:33 PM · Report this
59
Right, because women are soooo Privileged in this country. Fuck you.

Gays are victims of the same sexism as women. Just because we have different rights doesn't mean we have equal rights. It's disingenuous to alienate your allies to make a point and can be viewed as scapegoating another oppressed group. Just reading the comments here kills me because apparently it's totally fine and not at all offensive to generalize about groups of women, while if I were making the same blanket statements about groups of gays, this thread would have 200 comments accusing me of homophobia.

As for all the comments about women being obnoxious to gays, are you even serious with this shit? I have dealt with so many fucking obnoxious gay acquaintances (not even friends, just people I've met before) who've wanted to touch my boobs or kiss me to either freak a friend out, see what it's like, or get someone's attention, etc... and they honestly expect me to be ok with that because they aren't actually sexually attracted to me. Then there's my gay neighbor who thinks it's perfectly fine to come over for dinner and make overt sexual comments to my husband all fucking night even when I ask him to stop because it's just a funny joke and calls me his fag hag because he thinks I'm fulfilling this archetypal role for him cause he doesn't hang out with any other women. So please spare me the self-righteous bullshit.
Posted by virginia mason on May 25, 2012 at 6:18 PM · Report this
reverend dr dj riz 60
except virginia.. this is not about you.
Posted by reverend dr dj riz on May 25, 2012 at 7:10 PM · Report this
bedipped 61
@58
"Aren't female heteros the only ones who can find a place to "safely misbehave"?" No, I'd say society-wide that white, male heterosexual privilege far exceeds any other group's claim to safely do anything. Everyone should be given the opportunity (it sucks to read the Pride parade is more corporate signfest than bacchic freakforall), but most women will have far more concerns and calculations of when and where they are cutting loose than most men (a calculus of safety).
Posted by bedipped on May 25, 2012 at 7:38 PM · Report this
Mark in Colorado 62
Hey @59 "virginia mason" quit the whiney bitch crap.

My fist came centimeters from contacting some cunt's ugly face in a gay bar when she thought it was perfectly natural to ask those of us in a mixed gender and orientation group sitting at a table next to her if we would watch her drink because she didn't want to catch AIDs from the fags in the bar. This kind of shit started happening after too many women began populating the bar and in-turn brought in the asshole straight men with them too.

You and these "so called" gay male acquaintances clearly have personal boundary problems. Perhaps you need to learn how to say "no" and stop associating with these "so called" gay men you go on and on about.

And I hate to burst your bubble but do some reading--white women in particular have benefited greatly from affirmative action policies that were originally intended for racial minorities. Sure women are still treated like shit but plenty of them are shit too--just like men.

The L.A. bar isn't banning women. It's banning bachelorette parties. Women who are offended can go take their business and dumbass behavior elsewhere.

I stopped going to gay bars years ago. But I'll never forget how a perfectly good gay bar got destroyed because too many women insisted on treating the experience like they were on some kind of sightseeing tour. Frankly, women should not be allowed in gay men's bars unless they are invited by a gay man and he is held accountable for their behavior. If you think I'm a misogynist for saying so, then good and you can go fuck yourself too.
Posted by Mark in Colorado on May 25, 2012 at 8:21 PM · Report this
63
@61: ""Aren't female heteros the only ones who can find a place to "safely misbehave"?" No, I'd say society-wide that white, male heterosexual privilege far exceeds any other group's claim to safely do anything"

Right, any place is a place that they can do this.
Posted by women are great. bachelorette parties are trash on May 25, 2012 at 8:26 PM · Report this
Mark in Colorado 64
@28 "johnjjeeves"

You're almost a textbook example of a vile arrogant bisexual male. Self-righteous and lecturing gay men on gay bar culture, persecution, and misogyny. You wouldn't know about any "gay brotherhood", or shall we say--kinship, and its broader meaning because you are NOT part of the gay "we". Do gay men (especially since you're not one) a favor and take your hetero or "lady-banging" privilege and slither back under the rock from which you came.
Posted by Mark in Colorado on May 25, 2012 at 8:41 PM · Report this
Mark in Colorado 65
@39 Vince

Better to handout leaflets on marriage equality?

Really?!

I don't know if you've ever done political anything in a gay bar environment--but it's more often than not a huge waste of time, money, and resources. I remember trying this method of leafletting for a 43rd district candidate back in the early-to-mid 90s in the Seattle bars. It was not well received.
Posted by Mark in Colorado on May 25, 2012 at 8:55 PM · Report this
66
"As the owner of a catering hall, I'm happy to serve gay people, I just don't want them flaunting their sin in my face. So while I will serve gay customers, I will not host gay weddings."

If you read this quote from a straight person, you'd all be screaming for lawsuits. What the Abbey is doing is no different. Gays don't get a pass to discriminate based on orientation any more than blacks get a pass to discriminate based on race or Jews get a pass to discriminate based on religion. Don't want to serve straight people under the same terms that you serve that you'd serve gay people? Don't own a business of public acomodation.
Posted by Marooner on May 25, 2012 at 10:10 PM · Report this
67
"As the owner of a catering hall, I'm happy to serve gay people, I just don't want them flaunting their sin in my face. So while I will serve gay customers, I will not host gay weddings."

If you read this quote from a straight person, you'd all be screaming for lawsuits. What the Abbey is doing is no different. Gays don't get a pass to discriminate based on orientation any more than blacks get a pass to discriminate based on race or Jews get a pass to discriminate based on religion. Don't want to serve straight people under the same terms that you serve that you'd serve gay people? Don't own a business of public acomodation.
Posted by Marooner on May 25, 2012 at 10:10 PM · Report this
blip 68
@67, But... The Abbey can't serve gay bachelorette parties because GAY PEOPLE CAN'T GET MARRIED. Everyone is being served under the same terms.
Posted by blip on May 25, 2012 at 11:05 PM · Report this
69
Do gay bars have women's restrooms? Are there different bars for lesbians? Doesn't that seem a little bit like having a Black Miss America pageant?

Try to keep in mind that as a business, the proprieter reserves the right to refuse service to anyone. These women who want to have their bachelorette parties in an establishment in which the clientelle is unable to enjoy what is not even a privilege but a basic civil right is clearly insensitive. Dickish even. Or would that be cuntish?

@58, hetero women are perceived as helpless and needing that level of protection by a largely paternalistic culture. They are indulgently granted a safe place to misbehave in an atmosphere where going outside of their boundaries is thrilling for them while simultaneously safe because the men around them are irritated by their behavior rather than aroused. It's pretty fucked up, but there you have it. And now I can be a bad person too, waiting for the 'fuck you' to come my way.
Posted by catballou on May 26, 2012 at 9:05 AM · Report this
reverend dr dj riz 70
catballou.. you ain't fucked up and neither is virginia.. what gets passed over in thi discussion is the limitations of bachelorette parties as opposed to women in general.. no one ( or mostly no one ) is arguing for exclusion or mistreatment of women in general, just those hoards who come for a specific time to do a specific thing. lumping yourself in with these miscreants .. well you're no more like them. than i am like a group of single straight men who go to strip clubs and fuck with women. indeed strip clubs have pretty strict codes of conduct and all sorts of behavior is forbidden. and that's the other rub. strip clubs exist by design to support the things that men want to do that would be anathema in other places. but gay bars shouldn't do this.. because ?
earlier i used the term ' safely misbehave'. misbehavior is misbehavior and i'm arguing that it's the misbehavior that draws attention to bachelorette parties in the first place. now this club may be making a statement by excluding them solely on the basis of the equal marriage component . and if so i think that's a mistake. they already don't allow them to enter in costume ( which probably means penis hats, veils and sashes saying ' #1 bride' ) nor is it fair to say that all bachelorette parties misbehave. but so many do that it seems prudent to say that it's fairly insulting that groups of women flock to gay bars specifically as if it were a cheap night at chippendale's and behave as if they should be honored for doing so. you don't behave this way. neither does virginia.. but those that do...
Posted by reverend dr dj riz on May 26, 2012 at 9:27 AM · Report this
71
I doubt many women who attend bachelorette parties at gay bars are against marriage equality.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on May 26, 2012 at 9:41 AM · Report this
72
@67, would the Abbey ban a bachelorette/bachelor party for a gay person getting married in New York, but having their party in LA? Maybe, maybe not, but that's not what this policy says. This policy, as announced, applies only to straight women.

Also, does the Abbey ban any other, loud, boisterous groups celebrating an important life event, or just straight women? If my hypothetical catering hall owner said he'd host bar mitzvahs but not quinceaneras because he wanted to make a political statement about illegal immigration, would that be an acceptable policy to you?

Posted by Marooner on May 26, 2012 at 10:13 AM · Report this
73
Sorry, meant @ 68
Posted by Marooner on May 26, 2012 at 10:19 AM · Report this
74
this bar just made a big PR statement about a great cause, and they're getting lots of free press too. good for them. its a savvy PR move based in probably honest emotions and feelings. win-win.

the controversy is the story, and hopefully it helps move the discussion further to getting same sex marriage approved everywhere.

its really a nonstory at its essence - bars all over have certain rules against (or for) the behavior of its patrons...dress code , wait lists, who gets in (often large groups of single men cant get into a 'straight' club in vegas or nyc together), cover charges for men, no charge for ladies etc.

i hope the abbey gets more business, i hope gay marriage is approved, and i hope to run into a randy bachlorettebparty this weekend! shots all around!
Posted by Cassette tape fan on May 26, 2012 at 10:27 AM · Report this
Roosevelt 75
Totally off topic, but I miss the Man-Ray. I loved drinking in a bar that looked like the set of 2001 or THX-1138.
Posted by Roosevelt http://www.youtube.com/user/matthewcobrien?feature=mhum on May 26, 2012 at 10:36 AM · Report this
malcolmxy 76
The SMARTEST move I've seen made in this entire fight.

Party for your right to fight, as Chuck D would say.
Posted by malcolmxy on May 26, 2012 at 3:14 PM · Report this
77
It is the very HEIGHT of bad manners to drunkenly celebrate an impending marriage in front of people who are legally prohibited from doing the same. Especially in California, where the right was extended and then yanked away. Anyone who can't see this, well, there's just no reasoning with you. I worked in a (straight) bar for years, and we restricted all kinds of groups and behaviour, as all bars do. Forbidding a particular type of activity by a particular type of people does NOT equal discrimination, as long as they are welcome otherwise.
Posted by teamcanada on May 26, 2012 at 5:07 PM · Report this
GlamB0t 78
Sorry about the cackeling. In my defense, I cackle when sober. Some shit is just that funny.

Who cares what The Abbey does? As a straight engaged woman I would rather them let me know up front it's not cool. All batchlorette parties I've been to are a partcular breed of female insanity (which is exactly why I am not having one).

This won't help mariage equality at all. It is a private establishment making a statement about equality by pointing out one specific group of people.
Posted by GlamB0t on May 26, 2012 at 5:13 PM · Report this
Collin 79
Privilege War!!!!!
Posted by Collin on May 27, 2012 at 7:35 PM · Report this
terrence 80
it seems unfair to the ban women who probably pro gay rights from enjoying spending time with us. on the other hand i can totally understand where this is coming from, so personally, i wouldn't lift a finger in protest.
Posted by terrence on May 28, 2012 at 6:51 AM · Report this
TheloniousPunk 81
Where are the pitchforked mobs coming after the bachelorette party throwers? Ladies who make their bride to be friend do this: STOP IT. JUST. FUCKING STOP IT. I really, really wish that ladies throwing bachelorette parties would drop the "last chance to totally embarrass and mock my supposed friend in public" angle and embrace more of the "let's just have a good fucking time partying with old and new friends who probably don't get to see each other a lot" thing.

And for full disclosure, I'm a hetero married lady who ended her bachelorette party at neighbors (which I go to from time to time anyways), but you probably didn't notice because I told my bitches that I WOULD FUCKING CUT THEM if they made me wear anything made of penises or toilet paper.
Posted by TheloniousPunk on May 28, 2012 at 4:34 PM · Report this
82
@64 - Oh sweetheart, I identified as gay for a long time before I realized that I was just as happy with both sexes. But I suppose the continuum of sexuality interferes with your pathetically myopic and insular worldview, so you can have it.

But no. There is no gay 'we.' Have all the misogyny you want. I suspect you're either a very young no-nothing boy who finally feels special for the first time in your life (I know the feeling, so kudos) or you're a lecherous, irresponsible old fart that sells the fake idea that gay men 'look out' for other gay men so that they're more likely to trust you. And the fact that you don't even address the classism or misogyny in a lot of these comments speaks to this in the first place.

So fuck off, you ugly, small little man. Learn some empathy before whatever bitter husk of a life passes in front of your eyes.
Posted by johnjjeeves on May 29, 2012 at 8:52 AM · Report this
83
I dunno, this just seems kinda pointless/dumb? The only people this "political statement" will really affect is the women who have bachelorette parties at gay bars, and I highly doubt they were the ones voting against gay marriage in the first place. In fact, seems like the only people who will never be affected by this ban, are the actual people who hate gays. But either way, who the hell cares? The women will just take their business elsewhere, and in about 15 mins, we will all continue not to give a shit about what some random bar does.

Anyway, its interesting to see that gay men are just as misogynistic and assholish as straight men. I guess that's something you guys can bond over :/ Nothing helps gay marriage more then hating on women.
Posted by Anna Gem. on May 31, 2012 at 6:14 PM · Report this
84
My friend just completed her bachelorette party and we had an amazing time! For the bridal shower we designed a scavenger hunt game and highly advise this to any individual, it was incredible! Discovered a terrific web page that lets you customize your own tank tops, mugs, invitations lots of other neat things.
www.amazingbacheloretteparty.com/invitat…;
Posted by bachelorette on July 19, 2012 at 2:15 AM · Report this

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