Slog Comments
Anti-Gay Campaign Apparently Has Enough Signatures to Put Marriage on the Ballot
2
How long do we have to wait for the old folk to die off, again?
I estimate 2020 at the latest, maybe 2016 ...
I estimate 2020 at the latest, maybe 2016 ...
3
Dominic,
For the record, PMW is anti-gay marriage not necessarily anti-gay. I understand your point nonetheless and no, I didn't sign the measure.
For the record, PMW is anti-gay marriage not necessarily anti-gay. I understand your point nonetheless and no, I didn't sign the measure.
7
@6 lol. "I'm not against blacks/women/latinos/hippies, I just think they shouldn't have the same rights as me."
Remember, 'No state has ever upheld marriage equality at the ballot' yet. There's a first time for everything, and our fair state has a good chance of being it.
Remember, 'No state has ever upheld marriage equality at the ballot' yet. There's a first time for everything, and our fair state has a good chance of being it.
8
Same thing happening here in Maryland. Get out and vote Washington, it is rare you actually get a chance to vote for something that truly matters to so many individuals.
10
It slays that there are actually people willing to put a tremendous amount of time an effort into this cause - what motivates these people? - what's in it for them?
11
Once again - why are constitutional issues dealing with civil liberties being put into the initiatives machine? When is the Washing Supreme Court going to grow a pair and say, "Enough already!"
12
@11, couldn't agree more. Civil rights are not subject to a vote. If voters in Mississippi had approved separate but equal would it have been Constitutional?
13
Let’s remember that the Mormon Church was involved in California, so I imagine they’ll dump money here too + with Romney on the ballot Mormons will probably be voting in record numbers, as Blacks did for Obama .. so make sure you are registered to vote and get your friends to register too! This is no time for apathy or whining that your vote doesn’t count.
14
@3
Let's see...
PMW is anti-gay marriage not necessarily anti-gay
Let's see...
Such-and-such is anti-blacks marrying whites not necessarily anti-black
16
where were these signatures gathered? i never saw anyone asking in the city.
tax-exempt churches?
tax-exempt churches?
17
@7 shhhh... you see us homos should be happy decorating homes, cutting hairs and behaving like nice little stereotypes. Not demanding things! Haven't we been given so much already? We should be happy and content and just pick out a great set of clothing, wear it and smile happily at the weddings we planned for others.
19
They were mostly gathered through churches. That's how they'll motivate their base, and in spite of that, they still only managed to get about 200,000 signatures, or less than 10% of a normal election year. Not too great, especially considering Eyman can get 300,000+ in a long weekend with paid signatures or in a month without.
The number of people signing is not an indication of support, it's only an indication of how eager people are to put pen to paper on an issue. If signatures mattered we'd decide the issue on the basis of just collecting them, we don't.
The fact that the APPROVE R-74 campaign is way ahead of the curve is more an indication of actual support than this petition. And they even knew it was coming to the ballot before the law went before the legislature and prepared to get the word out to APPROVE R-74 accordingly.
So, yeah... yawn. Bring it on :)
The number of people signing is not an indication of support, it's only an indication of how eager people are to put pen to paper on an issue. If signatures mattered we'd decide the issue on the basis of just collecting them, we don't.
The fact that the APPROVE R-74 campaign is way ahead of the curve is more an indication of actual support than this petition. And they even knew it was coming to the ballot before the law went before the legislature and prepared to get the word out to APPROVE R-74 accordingly.
So, yeah... yawn. Bring it on :)
20
As to the "no state has ever voted to support gay marriage" meme, that's a lie to an extent. First off, they were bans in all but two cases, and in all of these cases -- every single one -- there was a distinct voter inclination against marriage equality.
In short, it was very calculated. They only picked states that had every demographic advantage possible and they have polls in the field all year to pick them out. For North Carolina, it would have happened years ago if it weren't for the Dems being in control all this time up until a couple of years ago.
In California, it was the court case. It's harder -- a lot harder -- to support an act of court on the matter than a legislative act. All those polls asked pointedly if people supported gay marriage, but not if they supported ratifying a court decision outside the public's hands. In the few cases they did those Field Poll results were closer and within the ultimate margin of error, even when the famous "57%" poll came out. In Maine, again, demographics suggested it would potentially fail to be legalized and that happened.
For Washington State and Maryland, the polling already has the solid margin of strong support there. The support for gay marriage, often lower than support for the legalization thereof, is a good base to begin with. We also shouldn't discount the fact that opposition to marriage equality is so low.
Ignore the polls. Assume we have the advantage and that we're just not motivated enough. Counter lies with actual gay couples, show the love and not the hate, fight to make our presence known and always -- always -- remember that Washington State is built on love and joy and not the will of less than 200,000 voters. Then get out the vote!
In short, it was very calculated. They only picked states that had every demographic advantage possible and they have polls in the field all year to pick them out. For North Carolina, it would have happened years ago if it weren't for the Dems being in control all this time up until a couple of years ago.
In California, it was the court case. It's harder -- a lot harder -- to support an act of court on the matter than a legislative act. All those polls asked pointedly if people supported gay marriage, but not if they supported ratifying a court decision outside the public's hands. In the few cases they did those Field Poll results were closer and within the ultimate margin of error, even when the famous "57%" poll came out. In Maine, again, demographics suggested it would potentially fail to be legalized and that happened.
For Washington State and Maryland, the polling already has the solid margin of strong support there. The support for gay marriage, often lower than support for the legalization thereof, is a good base to begin with. We also shouldn't discount the fact that opposition to marriage equality is so low.
Ignore the polls. Assume we have the advantage and that we're just not motivated enough. Counter lies with actual gay couples, show the love and not the hate, fight to make our presence known and always -- always -- remember that Washington State is built on love and joy and not the will of less than 200,000 voters. Then get out the vote!
21
@3 I'm not against you, I just hate you and don't think you deserve equal treatment. No hard feelings, ok?
22
I don't see how these measures can be so 50/50 borderline support when Washington State is so overwhelmingly Democrat and Liberal. I mean even when Inland Washington comes out in strong support say for a Dino Rossi, it still takes a good measure of Seattle and its exurbs to push such as person over the top.
That indicates to me that if there is a problem, it is more in the attitudes of the mainstream Democrats rather than the "Social Conservatives" whose vote shouldn't really register if the Democrats were unified.
24
@10, Also, sex, especially homosexual sex, is at the heart of Christianity's concept of 'sin.' Yes, yes, all you liberal Christians out there, there's so much more to your religion than that. But we all know the truth: nothing gets Christians so riled up more than homosexuality. Not genocide, not murder, not international theft of an entire nation's wealth.
This is why I'm a strong supporter of Gay rights. I mean, besides the fact that it's the moral & decent thing to do. But this is not a side issue, or a distraction. The religious right has dominated American politics for over thirty years, and this is the one issue they can't retreat from, spin, re-frame, quibble or hide. It's at the center of their being & they're wrong. Constantly forcing this issue has brought them out into the light, for everyone to see how morally bankrupt they are. They can only lose. Their god has lost, he just doesn't know it yet.
This is why I'm a strong supporter of Gay rights. I mean, besides the fact that it's the moral & decent thing to do. But this is not a side issue, or a distraction. The religious right has dominated American politics for over thirty years, and this is the one issue they can't retreat from, spin, re-frame, quibble or hide. It's at the center of their being & they're wrong. Constantly forcing this issue has brought them out into the light, for everyone to see how morally bankrupt they are. They can only lose. Their god has lost, he just doesn't know it yet.
25
A 21 point separation is not 50/50 borderline support:
"Washington voters approve of the law by a 54-33% margin. In addition to extraordinary support by Democrats (87%), the poll also found significant support among Independents, nearly mirroring the full poll, at 52-36%."
Hardly an attitude problem of "mainstream democrats."
The problem exists because the filthy fucking social conservatives put the issue on the ballot in the first place.
King County couldn't have pushed the domestic partnership vote over the finish line without the votes from the numerous inland counties who supported it even though those counties voted against it overall.
Why do conservatives, republicans, and christianists constantly project? They're already pathological liars. I suppose it's a logical progression.
"Washington voters approve of the law by a 54-33% margin. In addition to extraordinary support by Democrats (87%), the poll also found significant support among Independents, nearly mirroring the full poll, at 52-36%."
Hardly an attitude problem of "mainstream democrats."
The problem exists because the filthy fucking social conservatives put the issue on the ballot in the first place.
King County couldn't have pushed the domestic partnership vote over the finish line without the votes from the numerous inland counties who supported it even though those counties voted against it overall.
Why do conservatives, republicans, and christianists constantly project? They're already pathological liars. I suppose it's a logical progression.
27
So much for getting married in my hometown this summer...
Somehow celebrating in a DC courthouse isn't very alluring.
Somehow celebrating in a DC courthouse isn't very alluring.
28
Next up on the NOM and FOTF agenda: citizen initiatives to ban miscegenation, because God wants every child to have a mommy and a daddy of the same race. I'm pretty sure it says so in the Bible, but even if it doesn't, we all know that that's what God wants. And all of you smartypants can just shut up, because the Establishment Clause doesn't apply to God. /channeling
29
I'm a gay man from Canada, where it is legal to get married, and don't see the point in fighting this. Who gives a shit if we can get legally married, they all end in divorce anyways, gay or straight. Lets fight for something a bit more beneficial to us, like stricter laws on homophobic slander and attacks.
Comments (29) RSS