Slog Comments
The Drivers of These Cars Represent the Laziest and Cheapest of the Lazy, Cheap Commuter Set
1
I usually take the bus from my suburb, but sometimes I can't because the Park and Ride is full, because transit advocates think Park and Ride lots are environmentally unfriendly and fight against them. So I end up burning a couple gallons of diesel fuel instead.
2
people will do whatever is legal and convenient. look at rmoney's tax returns.
perhaps you should get up early and ask them where they live - i bet it's nearby - off 65th somewhere.
perhaps you should get up early and ask them where they live - i bet it's nearby - off 65th somewhere.
3
You should lobby the city for zoned parking. I'd go for a 2-hr max with residential permits allowed to park all day. My neighbor did this, all that I know about the process is that it involved collecting signatures from neighbors.
4
I suggest printing up some cards and leaving them under the wipers. "Nice Car! Nice Paint! Nice Tirestems!"
That's all.
That's all.
5
"...too lazy to park in the Park & Ride across the street and walk approximately 50 meters to the bus stop..."
I didn't realize Green Lake was in Canada.
I didn't realize Green Lake was in Canada.
6
@3: A friend of mine whose neighborhood did that has been less than thrilled -- now he has to pay for residential parking permits and enforcement is so spotty it hasn't helped the parking problem. For him it's become just another pointless expense of living in Seattle.
7
The same people who complain about the loss of infinite free parking in the city right of way in front of their house, scoff instantly at zoned parking, so you get what you pay for.
token teabaggy comment, in best rob mckenna voice:
" IF YOU HAD A REAL JOB YOU WOULD BE GONE ALL DAY AND WOULDN'T NOTICE, HOMO, ETC"
token teabaggy comment, in best rob mckenna voice:
" IF YOU HAD A REAL JOB YOU WOULD BE GONE ALL DAY AND WOULDN'T NOTICE, HOMO, ETC"
10
I didn't realize the city was allowing any parking to go either unzoned or unmetered. No doubt this stretch will be next. Still, fun to read what goes through your mind about whoever these cars belong to.
12
i'm conflicted about whether or not to complain about suburb-livin folks driving halfway to work/school, then parking and then taking the bus the rest of the way in.
on one hand, it's good that they are doing only half the drive. on the other hand, i too have the above problem THEY PACK THE BLOCK AND CAUSE PARKING MAYHEM on my residential street.
maybe it is just the price i pay for living half a block from a bus stop (am i being a nimby?), or, shit people, you are probably driving way more than halfway in, why not just do the last 3 minutes and pay for parking next to school?
/ends rant
on one hand, it's good that they are doing only half the drive. on the other hand, i too have the above problem THEY PACK THE BLOCK AND CAUSE PARKING MAYHEM on my residential street.
maybe it is just the price i pay for living half a block from a bus stop (am i being a nimby?), or, shit people, you are probably driving way more than halfway in, why not just do the last 3 minutes and pay for parking next to school?
/ends rant
15
But the car will solve ALL our transportation problems. Electric cars the most. Yeah the electric car is the solution.
16
Maybe they work in one of the many shops or offices within a few blocks of there. Your rant sounds a bit like "I hate these people using this free resource that I would like to use instead".
18
From the suburbs? Doubt it. Like Max @2 said, these people probably drove from pretty close by.
The sense of entitlement to the car-driving lifestyle is alive and well in that neighborhood, despite the insane traffic and great access to public transit. I was surprised as hell when I moved there. My household has one car between three people, and it gets driven about twice a week because it's so easy to get around via other means, and because the traffic is so shitty every hour of every day.
The sense of entitlement to the car-driving lifestyle is alive and well in that neighborhood, despite the insane traffic and great access to public transit. I was surprised as hell when I moved there. My household has one car between three people, and it gets driven about twice a week because it's so easy to get around via other means, and because the traffic is so shitty every hour of every day.
20
I'm slightly confused by this post. You're complaining about people who park their cars and ride the bus, near a Park & Ride?
Because they parked in a free parking spot that's closer to the bus stop than the other free parking spots across the street?
Wait, what am I supposed to be upset about again?
Because they parked in a free parking spot that's closer to the bus stop than the other free parking spots across the street?
Wait, what am I supposed to be upset about again?
21
It's possible that some of them have mobility issues, but can still drive a car safely. 50 meters can be a lot...don't assume everyone is young and in great health and condition.
Not saying this is likely, just possible.
BTW OP your "layabout" quip brings to mind Republicans who bitch and moan about supposedly lazy poors.
Not saying this is likely, just possible.
BTW OP your "layabout" quip brings to mind Republicans who bitch and moan about supposedly lazy poors.
23
@10, oh Gus. Get off the hill once in a while! Most of the streets in Seattle are neither zoned or metered.
24
The only Envronmentally Correct Seattleites are those who are fit enough to bike everywhere on a single-speed track bike.
25
@8 You assume everyone who lives in Seattle spends all time from now to eternity in the city limits. Some of us actually go places that aren't in the city, many of those places require cars to get to, not to mention if you have a job that requires you to cart around things in your personal vehicle. Also, not all neighborhoods in Seattle are as dense as Green Lake or Capitol Hill.
26
I agree with @20. Also, Deciding not to park downtown isn't a cheapness thing. The cost is legitimately unaffordable for most people.
28
I don't understand. The area is unzoned. They're not parking illegally. So why are you so upset about those who park there? How is their parking harming you?
Direct your irrational rage toward getting zoned parking there, or shut up about it and try to enjoy your life.
Direct your irrational rage toward getting zoned parking there, or shut up about it and try to enjoy your life.
29
@8 Not everyone lives where buses are the most convenient mode of transportation. When I lived in lake city, in order to get to Fremont, it took two separate buses and it was an hour long. I have a car and it takes me 15 minutes with good traffic.
Places like Ballard also don't have the most accessible buses depending on where you want to go -- or if they do, it takes soooo long, that having a car is much more convenient.
Most importantly though, its waaaay cheaper for me (personally) to have a car in Seattle than bus. Paying for a bus pass or everday fair would be minimum $20/a week. I pay $20 every other week for gas and I'm a pretty good parking spot finder. Rarely do I have to pay for parking because residential areas have free parking if you don't mind doing a bit of walking the rest of the way.
Places like Ballard also don't have the most accessible buses depending on where you want to go -- or if they do, it takes soooo long, that having a car is much more convenient.
Most importantly though, its waaaay cheaper for me (personally) to have a car in Seattle than bus. Paying for a bus pass or everday fair would be minimum $20/a week. I pay $20 every other week for gas and I'm a pretty good parking spot finder. Rarely do I have to pay for parking because residential areas have free parking if you don't mind doing a bit of walking the rest of the way.
30
I should have added: Maybe they don't like to ride transit with sanctimonious blog writers who rage about people who park legally.
31
@29 I enjoy the convenience of my car too, however there's no way owning your car is cheaper. Gas is only one expense. You also have registration, insurance, and financing if you don't own it outright. However I do agree that buses in much of the city aren't as convenient as using a car, which is why I do most of the time too.
32
@31: If you need a car anyway -- maybe you occasionally need to go places that *aren't* in Seattle -- registration, insurance, and financing are basically sunk costs.
For me taking the bus comes out slightly ahead, but only because I get a subsidized bus pass from my employer, and also have to pay for parking if I drive. If either of those weren't true, I'd be better off driving.
For me taking the bus comes out slightly ahead, but only because I get a subsidized bus pass from my employer, and also have to pay for parking if I drive. If either of those weren't true, I'd be better off driving.
33
@23, I'm glad I was wrong. I do get off the Hill (more accurately, out of downtown) often enough, but only rarely behind the wheel.
34
Yes, I think it's a myth that it's always cheaper to take transit. It really depends on the specific situation and use cases.
Maybe some of these people have kids they need to drop off and pick-up at school, so riding the bus all the way into and out of downtown isn't workable, because they can't afford to park downtown, or it's simply more efficient not to drive all the way downtown (e.g., the kids school or day care is not convenient to a bus that goes downtown or they can't afford to be at the mercy of a late bus all the way out to the suburbs, because they'll pay a stiff penalty if they are late picking up their kids--many daycare spots charge like $10 for every minute a parent is late in picking up their kids).
From my perspective, any car that doesn't drive downtown benefits everyone. Would it be more perfect if everyone rode the bus all the way from home to downtown? Yes. But at least at this point, it's not practical.
Perhaps eventually McGinn and his buddies will succeed in making driving and parking so unpleasant in Seattle that more people will decide that on balance transit is a better option. In saying that I'm not criticizing that strategy either. It's the only way you will change people's behavior. It's also the only way you'll get enough demand for transit that people will start wanting to do a better job of funding it and making it better for more people.
But all other things being equal, for many people, at this point, the car continues to do a better job of meeting their needs in a cost effective manner than does transit.
I'd love to ride transit to Capitol Hill from Beacon Hill, especially at night. Once light rail runs there, I'm sure I'll do it more. But right now, I either have to take a two hop transit ride that goes downtown first, walk from downtown up the hill, or hope that the 60 bus happens to be running (which it won't be after 11:15 pm during the week and after 7pm or so on the weekends).
Google maps indicates that all of these transit options take around 35 minutes to get to Capitol Hill. Biking takes 23 minutes. Walking takes 66 minutes. Driving takes 10 minutes.
If the car was only half as fast to Capitol Hill as transit, I expect I'd choose transit more often (especially if it was possible to get home from Capitol Hill after midnight on transit in less than 25 minutes).
But right now, even with time spent looking for parking, driving is generally going to be the fastest and most convenient option. At night, with no parking costs, it's also the cheapest option in money and it's easily the cheapest option in time.
So I usually drive. Conversely, if I need to go downtown, I'm more likely to take the train, because it's reasonably fast, comfortable, and it feels really good not to have to look for parking down there, let alone pay for it. But there again, I can believe that the train doesn't run south until at least 2:00 am on the weekends. It's ridiculous.
More...
Maybe some of these people have kids they need to drop off and pick-up at school, so riding the bus all the way into and out of downtown isn't workable, because they can't afford to park downtown, or it's simply more efficient not to drive all the way downtown (e.g., the kids school or day care is not convenient to a bus that goes downtown or they can't afford to be at the mercy of a late bus all the way out to the suburbs, because they'll pay a stiff penalty if they are late picking up their kids--many daycare spots charge like $10 for every minute a parent is late in picking up their kids).
From my perspective, any car that doesn't drive downtown benefits everyone. Would it be more perfect if everyone rode the bus all the way from home to downtown? Yes. But at least at this point, it's not practical.
Perhaps eventually McGinn and his buddies will succeed in making driving and parking so unpleasant in Seattle that more people will decide that on balance transit is a better option. In saying that I'm not criticizing that strategy either. It's the only way you will change people's behavior. It's also the only way you'll get enough demand for transit that people will start wanting to do a better job of funding it and making it better for more people.
But all other things being equal, for many people, at this point, the car continues to do a better job of meeting their needs in a cost effective manner than does transit.
I'd love to ride transit to Capitol Hill from Beacon Hill, especially at night. Once light rail runs there, I'm sure I'll do it more. But right now, I either have to take a two hop transit ride that goes downtown first, walk from downtown up the hill, or hope that the 60 bus happens to be running (which it won't be after 11:15 pm during the week and after 7pm or so on the weekends).
Google maps indicates that all of these transit options take around 35 minutes to get to Capitol Hill. Biking takes 23 minutes. Walking takes 66 minutes. Driving takes 10 minutes.
If the car was only half as fast to Capitol Hill as transit, I expect I'd choose transit more often (especially if it was possible to get home from Capitol Hill after midnight on transit in less than 25 minutes).
But right now, even with time spent looking for parking, driving is generally going to be the fastest and most convenient option. At night, with no parking costs, it's also the cheapest option in money and it's easily the cheapest option in time.
So I usually drive. Conversely, if I need to go downtown, I'm more likely to take the train, because it's reasonably fast, comfortable, and it feels really good not to have to look for parking down there, let alone pay for it. But there again, I can believe that the train doesn't run south until at least 2:00 am on the weekends. It's ridiculous.
35
@5: If you have that much problem with "meters" go to this link: http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/length_…
36
"If you live in Seattle and own a car, you're doing it wrong."
Want to meet me in an hour at Snoqualimie Pass, then have dinner at Rays this evening and catch a movie downtown?
……oh that's right, you're doing it 'right
"If you live in Seattle and own a car, you're doing it wrong."
Want to meet me in an hour at Snoqualimie Pass, then have dinner at Rays this evening and catch a movie downtown?
……oh that's right, you're doing it 'right
37
If you think owning a car is too expensive and taking the bus is more productive for you in Seattle, you are doing life wrong and need a decent career.
38
I don't get what the harm is. I used to live in the apartments up in the NW ass corner of Magnolia, between the Discovery Park entrance and the back path entrance to the Ballard locks by Kiwanis Ravine. It had awesome bus access to downtown via Interbay on the #24 and #33. All the blocks would get filled up by people driving over from the nether regions of Magnolia that didn't have bus service, using the residential streets around West Government Way and 34th Avenue West as a giant park & ride.
How do we know it's not just stuff like this, versus people coming in from like Shoreline or Mountlake Terrace or wherever?
How do we know it's not just stuff like this, versus people coming in from like Shoreline or Mountlake Terrace or wherever?
39
Fuck your bullshit. Boo hoo. They are parking legally, and you'd like to find something - anything! - to bitch about, so that's gotta be it? Why don't we all just give in to sucking your bike's dick, and ride fixies and get ironic mustaches and have no children that go to grandparents' houses or pets that go to vets or jobs that aren't in the fishbowl you call your metro life or destinations that require us to travel outside of the bus map (yes, there's actually a whole wide world out there that you can't get to on Metro). There are things you should complain about, and then there are things you shouldn't complain about. This is the latter. You're being an asshole.
41
umm. you know that bus stop mainly serves the buses that go redmond & bellevue? so you're really saying that they should drive all the way from greenwood or wedgwood to the eastside (and park for free in microsoft's lots)?
these are your lovely urban seattle neighbors, who cant get a nice direct bus to work like you can.
these are your lovely urban seattle neighbors, who cant get a nice direct bus to work like you can.
42
@32 I was speaking in the case of @29 where they say they only spend $20 on fuel in 2 weeks. That doesn't sound like someone who drives very much, so actually needing a car sounds doubtful, so the sunk cost argument doesn't sound like it would apply, I could be wrong. In that case bus pass would be cheaper since you only appear to be driving 10 miles a day on average, which sounds well within the bus range in Seattle, and the overhead costs of ownership and maintenance on a car don't sound worth it for what little usage you'd get out of it.
43
Is this the long-long-awaited sequel to the infamous ECB "should disabled people ride the bus?" post? It's about as whiny...
44
@35 - I prefer just typing into Google "convert 50m to ft." Google used to just give you the answer as the first result, but now they throw in a pretty cool conversion widget to boot.
45
came here for more Lake City Hate from Cap Hill, leaving happy (once again).
PS every time a hipster hates on Lake City, we "borrow" a locally sourced '78 datsun and leave in just outside the Greenlake Park and Ride (w no plates or VIN).
PS every time a hipster hates on Lake City, we "borrow" a locally sourced '78 datsun and leave in just outside the Greenlake Park and Ride (w no plates or VIN).
47
@5, you know meters still work in America, right? It's not like with Canadian currency, where, like, you can feed metric units into American roads and still kinda get your transit out but then somebody else tries to use miles and then gets their change back in km and is all like, Man, Fuck Canada. No. It is not like that.
48
I have the same problem in my neighborhood. I live near Swedish, and most of the parking in the area is metered or zoned for two hours, but the parking on my street is free and clear. Employees working at Swedish flood my block rather than pay the 50 bucks for street parking or for a space in a lot north of Market, as evidenced by the fact that there's a mass exodus of cars at 6 p.m. every weekday.
It goes with the territory. Just be glad you don't live on Capitol Hill.
It goes with the territory. Just be glad you don't live on Capitol Hill.
49
Does the Park-and-Ride parking lot charge for parking? If so, then they're being frugal, not lazy. Why shouldn't they park in free spots if they can get them?
The only parking at the train station nearest my house is 2h only. Good luck!
The only parking at the train station nearest my house is 2h only. Good luck!
50
#29 - Now factor in the cost of insurance, maintenance, and parking (not the 'usually good at finding' kind, but the kind you have to suck it up and pay for). Now factor in the possibility that nothing you do is so important you have to kill your little corner of the Earth with a mobile toxic waste dump to do it: not 10% cheaper, not 20% faster, not nuthin'...
51
I park my car on Capitol Hill about 12 blocks from my house because the bus is too dangerous to ride back into my neighborhood at night and it is too dangerous to walk. If the people parking on your street are living in Greenwood it would be a similar situation for them. The city of Seattle is just stupid. They do not want to acknowledge the problems that we have and so many citizens in nicer neighborhoods have no idea what it is like for people in other neighborhoods. Yeah, your buses are great. (I used to live in that neighborhood until I got priced out). The buses are efficient, safe and somewhat clean. For those of us in parts of North Seattle, the Central Area and the South End...take the fucking bus! They are portapotties on wheels with cluster fuck routes and smaller kids getting beat up for electronic devices by bigger kids. Last time I rode the bus from Cherry to downtown some crazy asshole was shoving Cheetos in her face while screaming at her toddler. Sorry Hon, complain all you want, but I’m driving part way then walking the rest. And park downtown. If the city can't clean up our streets and make our sidewalks safe to walk on then why the hell should we pay $4 hour to park downtown? Yeah, local businesses would just love it if we all spent our money doing that. We could not afford much else. You are lucky you can afford to live in a nice neighborhood. And try using your driveway instead of parking in front of it.
52
Where is Danny's outrage?....
AP- "An FBI affidavit in the investigation of a shooting Wednesday at the downtown Washington, D.C., offices of the Family Research Council says the accused gunman uttered a statement to the effect of, "I don't like your politics," before reaching into a backpack for a handgun and opening fire.
Homosexual activist Floyd Lee Corkins II, of Herndon, Va., 28, is charged with assault with intent to kill.
"Corkins said he was "given a license" by groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center, which labeled the Family Research Council as a hate group.
"The Southern Poverty Law Center declined an interview request from the program.
"Corkins had volunteered recently at a community center for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.
"The accused gunman's parents told the FBI that their son held "strong opinions with respect to those who do not treat homosexuals in a preferential manner," the affidvit said.
"Corkins had been volunteering for roughly six months at The DC Center for the LGBT Community, according to David Mariner, executive director of the northwest Washington community center. Corkins usually staffed the center's front desk on Saturdays, and his most recent shift was about two weeks ago."
AP- "An FBI affidavit in the investigation of a shooting Wednesday at the downtown Washington, D.C., offices of the Family Research Council says the accused gunman uttered a statement to the effect of, "I don't like your politics," before reaching into a backpack for a handgun and opening fire.
Homosexual activist Floyd Lee Corkins II, of Herndon, Va., 28, is charged with assault with intent to kill.
"Corkins said he was "given a license" by groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center, which labeled the Family Research Council as a hate group.
"The Southern Poverty Law Center declined an interview request from the program.
"Corkins had volunteered recently at a community center for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.
"The accused gunman's parents told the FBI that their son held "strong opinions with respect to those who do not treat homosexuals in a preferential manner," the affidvit said.
"Corkins had been volunteering for roughly six months at The DC Center for the LGBT Community, according to David Mariner, executive director of the northwest Washington community center. Corkins usually staffed the center's front desk on Saturdays, and his most recent shift was about two weeks ago."
53
@50 and @42 You're right to an extent, I actually don't drive a whole lot (pragmatic had it right with about 10 miles a day). I never drive downtown, for that I do take the bus. But to even to places like capitol hill or greenlake, I'll still drive. I guess I just don't really like all the waiting it is for the bus, you always have to wait for the bus, then you have to wait for the bus to get to where you're going, and if the bus is late that day, it puts a real bummer in your plans. And hot pussy, I can guarantee that I can get somewhere faster than taking the bus. With all the stops a bus makes, how would I not? And I'm not talking about express buses to the eastside and all that, since of course I would also take the bus for that. Don't act like you're better than everyone else because you don't have car you hippie piece of shit.
54
Almost bought a car on the cheap. Recent expenses swayed me from doing so. But yeah, owning even a cheap used car gets really pricey: Annual registration ($100+), monthly insurance (at least $50-60 a month, if your driving record is good), regular maintenance, regular gas purchases ($40-60 a tank every week or so), parking costs (whether or not you rack up parking tickets), expensive repairs if it breaks down in any way... it's hundreds of dollars a month at a minimum.
I've had the option to own one time and again over the years. I've declined for that reason and others: All that never minds the pain in the ass of finding parking, driving through the heavy traffic in this town, moving the car regularly if you do street parking, the persistent risk of costly theft and vandalism, etc.
I've had the option to own one time and again over the years. I've declined for that reason and others: All that never minds the pain in the ass of finding parking, driving through the heavy traffic in this town, moving the car regularly if you do street parking, the persistent risk of costly theft and vandalism, etc.
55
I love the smugsters who rant about the earth-destroying automobile, but say nothing about Seattle's ban on plastic bags, which outlawed the single most earth-friendly way of carrying groceries other than completely in your own arms.
56
@53 Believe me, Lizzy Lemons: it's not an act. You put yourself before every single other creature on Earth every time you drive. Your cognitive dissonance finds relief in the bullshit 'everyone's doing it' excuse. Guess what, toots? Not everyone does it. In fact, a lot of people don't do it, accept life gets a little harder/requires more planning as a result of their moral/economic decision, and go about their ways. Those who do --"hippie piece[s] of shit" included-- incrementally improve the lives of everyone, even deluded, gutless, self-important piles of shit like you.
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