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Will in Seattle 1
Brits always look better from a distance. It's the teeth, you know, plus they dress better.

Scots on the other hand, give them a large quantity of alcohol and you've got a Party for life!
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on September 25, 2012 at 5:34 PM · Report this
2

I'm curious ... my totally unscientific anecdotal opinion based on the cases I know about is that few relationships survive an elective abortion.

Am I wrong ... ?

Readers who had an abortion at some point, then went on to live happily ever after, perhaps have children, with the partner who was the other parent of the aborted fetus are invited to provide counter-examples.
Posted by Robby on September 25, 2012 at 5:46 PM · Report this
Zebes 3
This here anecdotal evidence tells me all abortions are always a bad idea! Stoopid librals!
Posted by Zebes http://www.badrap.org/rescue/index.html on September 25, 2012 at 5:50 PM · Report this
4
#2, i know three such couples. My understanding is that while it's still an upsetting and major decision people are given less external impetus to hate themselves for it here in Australia (or at least in my region of Sydney.)
Posted by Counter enecdotes. on September 25, 2012 at 5:57 PM · Report this
5
#2 Well since approx 60% of women who have abortions are married, many of their relationships presumably survive, although I don't know if that question specifically was addressed
Posted by lilyput on September 25, 2012 at 6:12 PM · Report this
6
This one is easy.

(and Danny's advice sucks and blows...)

Honesty is the best policy, you murdering bitch.

Tell your boyfriend you are still in love with old flame.

Tell BF you don't like him to touch you anymore.

He will be glad to be rid of you.

(if you want to be sure tell him old flame is better in bed)

he will move on and never look back

(actually, you're not all that great yourself....)
Posted by you'll be doing him a favor on September 25, 2012 at 6:18 PM · Report this
7
@ #2 Well, people write to Dan when they have problems, so you have a bit of a biased sample there. Besides that, Dan does receive letters from women who have had abortions and are happy with that decision regardless of whether or not they want to have kids in the future.
Posted by Buffy on September 25, 2012 at 6:28 PM · Report this
persimmon 8
@2 Well, anecdotal evidence is really just anecdotes. But that said, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if your thoughts held up, if only for the sake that most women get an abortion because they're not ready to have a child at this stage in their life--which usually means they're also not with the kinds of people they'd want to settle down with. So, the relationships will fail sometime afterward--but I doubt the abortion had much to do with it.
Posted by persimmon on September 25, 2012 at 6:36 PM · Report this
9
@7 Don't misunderstand - few of the women I know who have had abortions would choose differently. If they have regrets it's about not being ready at that time, or not being with the right partner, or something along those lines.

Perhaps it's being confronted with that reality of not having the right partner to raise a child with, or something like that, but it does seem that many relationships end after an abortion.

Perhaps readers who *know of* counterexamples, rather than *being* counterexamples, might chime in.

Posted by Robby on September 25, 2012 at 6:41 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 10
@6: silly troll! this letter is three years old. she's probably made her decision, and let's hope she broke up with the boyfriend and took up with the british boyfriend. next time, sunny jim, READ the entire post before you bore us.
Posted by scary tyler moore http://pushymcshove.blogspot.com/ on September 25, 2012 at 6:56 PM · Report this
11
probably?
Posted by who you calling silly, Willis?! on September 25, 2012 at 7:06 PM · Report this
12
@2, my parents. My mom had an abortion when she and my dad were first married because they felt they were too young for a kid. They stayed together and had me and my brother.
Posted by blah910 on September 25, 2012 at 7:13 PM · Report this
ams_ 13
Sorry, but I hardly consider a Brit a Euro. Continent (or scandinavia) or bust.
Posted by ams_ on September 25, 2012 at 7:20 PM · Report this
6 14
@2 Perhaps we are an exception to the norm, but my partner and I have happily been together for almost 6 years now and I had an elective abortion 8 months into our relationship. It wasn't a cake walk, but it was the right decision at the time and we were careful to communicate with each other throughout and after the whole ordeal. I always recommend counseling for any couple (or individual) who have a rough time processing a decision like that. Getting through it and growing stronger as a couple is real and possible - not for everyone, but for some.
Posted by 6 on September 25, 2012 at 7:28 PM · Report this
ScienceNerd 15
@2 mine didn't survive, but we were 16.

@13 my European BF feels the same way.
Posted by ScienceNerd http://stanichium.tumblr.com/ on September 25, 2012 at 7:49 PM · Report this
16

One of my all time favorite bumper stickers:

ASK ME ABOUT MY ABORTION

(For anyone who's never seen 'em, this is a play on the old "Ask me about my grandchildren" bumper sticker ...)

Posted by Velvetbabe on September 25, 2012 at 8:07 PM · Report this
secretagent 17
Ugh. I really despise that Dan seems to suggest that she had an abortion because she wasn't with the right guy. Most women who have abortions (61%) are already moms. It's not that they don't want children with this man, it's that they don't want more children, or not at this time.

If there is a correlation between breakups and abortions, I'd bet it's just that. Correlation not causation. Anything that forces your attention to the quality of the relationship (death, birth, abortion, moving) will accelerate inevitable breakups.
Posted by secretagent on September 25, 2012 at 8:54 PM · Report this
18
[If the Euro has moved on by that point, then all three of you will wind up miserable and alone.]

How does it follow that Mr Euro will be miserable and alone (or, for that matter, that alone = miserable for ANY of the three parties)? I'm sorry for the LW's pain, but she strikes me as more a potential source of misery than cure for it, even if her take on the situation is entirely accurate (quite another conversation).

Of course, I can see why Mr Savage wouldn't necessarily want to suggest something so harsh. I just hope that all three have gone off in separate directions with no ill will or debilitating lingering regrets.
Posted by vennominon on September 25, 2012 at 9:56 PM · Report this
Big Sven 19
Man, why do childless, unmarried people get their undies in such a bunch about breaking up with somebody? DTMFA! No commitment exists, and no kids lives are going to be fractured...
Posted by Big Sven http://onedatapoint.blogspot.com/ on September 25, 2012 at 11:35 PM · Report this
20
16

That is so precious!

It reminds me of being in Uganda in the 70s.

The Presidential limo had a bumper sticker

"Ask Me About My Genocide"
Posted by MASS MURDER! It's So FUNNY! especially when Mom does it on September 26, 2012 at 6:44 AM · Report this
21
I know of two couples who had abortions early on and the relationship survived, (though one did end up getting divorced about 25 years later for other reasons). The other was an "oops" that happened in the very first week of dating and they have been happily married for a while now and working on growing their family.
Posted by ariane on September 26, 2012 at 6:51 AM · Report this
22
@ secretagent
Well the letter writer never indicated that she herself is a mother. It is possible that one of the reasons she had her abortion was because she realized that in addition to not wanting to be a mother at that moment, she did not want to be a mother with that guy. Just, like you mentioned this abortion probably brought attention to the relationship and made her realize that she was not really satisfied with her current boyfriend at the time. Having children with this man would make it much more difficult for her to end her relationship with him and start one with the euro.
Posted by Buffy on September 26, 2012 at 7:23 AM · Report this
RTam 23
@2 - My mom and step-dad. Mom was a divorced mother of moi when she met step-dad, she got pregnant shortly after their marriage when they were broke and living with his mother, so she terminated the pregnancy. 5 years later they had my brother. They've now been together for 35 mostly happy years.

I think we hear about more break-ups post abortion because people don't talk much about abortions if they're together to avoid others' judgement and questions.
Posted by RTam on September 26, 2012 at 9:02 AM · Report this
DAVIDinKENAI 24
@17: Yes, correlation is not causation. Sorry to be harse, but couples more likely to have an abortion include those who communicate poorly, are individually or mutually implusive, who don't plan ahead, and who have magical thinking about how things will all work out, somehow. None of those characteristics increase the odds of staying together.

@23: "people don't talk much about abortions if they're together". Yes, just like the reporting bias about drug use, affairs and/or honest, non-monogamy; having an abortion - if the beginning of the end - gets more widely told than the abortion that a couple went through and stayed together. Other early hurdles in a relationship - a death in the familiy, unsuccessul or difficult pregnancy attempts, unemployment - are all are more public events or get more publicity from the couple.
Posted by DAVIDinKENAI on September 26, 2012 at 11:12 AM · Report this
25
@2: My sister and brother-in-law. Got pregnant dating, had an abortion. Later got married, had two kids.

I think 8 is right: To the extent people later break up, this has a whole lot to do with the rule that most relationships end, until you find one that doesn't.
Posted by IPJ on September 26, 2012 at 11:37 AM · Report this
26
Obviously abortion of untimely pregnancy will help the relationship survive. If it were me, I'd go for adoption, and not really care if carrying full term ends the possibility of a wonderful relationship, but can't force anyone else to think that way :(

While doing this, can't we also discuss the abortion decisions that ppl didn't go through? Because my mother had me and my youngest brother after all and seems pretty happy for it!
Posted by fahima on September 26, 2012 at 12:54 PM · Report this
secretagent 27
@24 Most of the people I know that have abortions are women, not couples, regardless of whether they're currently partnered. And they, like me, had their abortions because they didn't want a kid, or not now, and whether the right man is in the picture has little to do with it. Love of our lives, married, whatever, my generation just generally don't want children before we're a certain age. We don't get to that level of financial or emotional stability at 25 anymore. It's more like 35, so we've got two decades of fertility to manage. Perhaps some women get pregnant because of magical thinking or irresponsibility, but of an approximate 240 opportunities to get pregnant, I'd say one or two fuckups is pretty damn good. Yes, hormonal birth control is really effective, but even so, 1 time out of 100 it fails. And for many women, it sucks. I'd personally rather take my chances with condoms and emergency contraception than be a bloated moody starving bitchface until I choose to reproduce. Framing abortion as something that only happens to stupid, irresponsible assholes isn't just arrogant. It's also just plain inaccurate.
Posted by secretagent on September 26, 2012 at 1:26 PM · Report this

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