Slog Comments
Slog Mormon Study: Doctrine and Covenants 130:12
6
Are you serious?! This is a joke, right? The holy scripture of the Mormon faith actually references a state of the Union by name? God really bothers that much with the trivial matters of a country that he makes it a point to put down his thoughts in writing? And it's an article of Mormon faith that some apocalyptic mayhem will break out in... South Carolina?! Like, I have to believe that to be a Mormon?
...And Romney believes that about South Carolina?
...And Romney believes that about South Carolina?
7
@1 The next line especially:
13 It may probably arise through the slave question. This a avoice declared to me, while I was praying earnestly on the subject, December 25th, 1832.
14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the acoming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:
15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore alet this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.
So Lincoln is Jesus? Or maybe Lee given that the Mormon's didn't like black people back then.
13 It may probably arise through the slave question. This a avoice declared to me, while I was praying earnestly on the subject, December 25th, 1832.
14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the acoming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:
15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore alet this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.
So Lincoln is Jesus? Or maybe Lee given that the Mormon's didn't like black people back then.
8
@6 -- The Old Testament mentions all kinds of jurisdictions by name - many so obscure we have no clue where and what they were back in the day - so on style Romney's book is no worse than most.
Plus, if you had to pick a nexus of unspecified "difficulties" out of a hat, South Carolina's not a bad choice at all, is it?
Plus, if you had to pick a nexus of unspecified "difficulties" out of a hat, South Carolina's not a bad choice at all, is it?
11
@8 Well, you're right. It's just that those are ancient places nobody remembers. I expect that from some sort of holy scripture. In contrast, it sounds way too far fetched for God to suddenly say that a cataclysmic war will erupt in the next town over. That's more sci fi or horror than religion.
13
And what if there had never been a King Charles of England...what would have happened with the name of the Carolina's in that case?
14
@ 11, that's what makes that stuff effective. No one is much bothered by the Apocalypse until it's just about to happen where they are.
16
I believe that going back to John Tyler and nullification South Carolina was seen as a source of trouble.
Still, I'd like to see if there's a copy of this thing independently date-able to pre-1861, or for that matter to Smith's lifetime.
Still, I'd like to see if there's a copy of this thing independently date-able to pre-1861, or for that matter to Smith's lifetime.
17
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the South Carolina football team who figures to be tough this year. The "bloodshed" to be wrought is no doubt metaphorical, though I'd not put it past that tandem of linebackers they've got to wreak same pretty serious havoc.
18
@7 Yeah, one could say that it appears to prophesy the Civil War, though while it was supposedly dated to 1843, it wasn't added to the Doctrine and Convenants until 1876. Also, it's important to point out that there's been no return of Christ yet, and that would seem to be the more important part of the prophesy.
20
Even if Smith really wrote that in the 40s, it still would be roughly equivalent to someone looking at Germany in the 1920s and thinking, "bad shit is going to go down here." Insightful, but not exactly prophetic.
23
@18 Color me shocked that they might have faked it.
Though predicting the civil war in 1842 would not be that remarkable. Like predicting a war between the US and China over Taiwan.
Though predicting the civil war in 1842 would not be that remarkable. Like predicting a war between the US and China over Taiwan.
24
Also, for some context: this "revelation" did hit it on the head but it was hardly surprising, because all of the popular media at the time predicted that South Carolina was going to explode anyway. It'd be like the current prophet receiving revelation that Obama is likely to win a second term, but just copying and pasting Nate Silver's analysis.
Speaking of the current prophet, the ex-Mormon and LDS reddit is all atwitter with news that new "revelation" is coming down the pike at next week's general conference—should be entertaining.
Speaking of the current prophet, the ex-Mormon and LDS reddit is all atwitter with news that new "revelation" is coming down the pike at next week's general conference—should be entertaining.
25
I can't decide if this is a reference to the Nullification Crisis or a prophecy related to Lou Holtz.
27
Okay, we know that South Carolina is the dog poop on North Carolina's shoes, and we know that North Carolina is the dog poop on Virginia's shoes, but is Virginia the dog poop on West Virginia's shoes or is it the dog poop on Maryland's shoes? Not all of the important questions are answered in scripture.
28
@21 - I grew up in Jackson County, Missouri, and you're not far off. When I told my sister about the line in "I Believe" from The Book of Mormon, "I believe the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri", she said, "That must have been before the meth labs moved in."
29
@24 - so, kinda like Romney saying he'll create 12 million jobs? It's gonna happen anyway by all estimates, so why not try taking credit for it and hope no one notices you didn't actually do shit and don't even have a plan.
32
"Commencement of the difficulties"? Gotta love the incredibly awkward phrasing leading to the hilarious punchline of "South Carolina"! One of the best-crafted jokes I've seen in quite some time!
33
Don't sweat the timeline everyone. South Carolina had a rebellion in 1836 and Smith is referencing that. It's like saying "Thus sayeth the Lord God that gun violence will break out in Littleton Colorado" because for some reason that too is a hotspot of crazy.
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