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1
Well, it does start out by saying that it'll protect people to practice their religion as they see fit but ALSO protects other people. I definitely see your point about having an anti-gay pastor talking about how he wouldn't be forced to perform gay marriages but I still think that it's an effective ad.

I definitely agree about the wives gazing adoringly at their husbands, although if they're trying to reach the fundamental religious crowd that's definitely the type of shit they'd want to see. Subservient women who know their place and rely on their all knowing husbands to be the spokesperson for the relationship.
Posted by bassplayerguy on October 2, 2012 at 8:34 AM · Report this
reverend dr dj riz 2
but the truth is eventually they'll have to alter their religious beliefs, even as they will NEVER need worry that the government will force them to do so. most denonminations have spent the entirety of their exisance dening that they have gays in their congregations and looking the other way while closeted gays teach their sunday schools, head their music departments and praise teams.and ( gulp) pastor their youth. but as they've had to yield to to the wider inclusion of women and minorities in their ranks, they'll have to yeield to the inclusion of gays and their families and they will alter their beliefs to do so..
... they will..
Posted by reverend dr dj riz on October 2, 2012 at 8:34 AM · Report this
Vancouverite 3
My dog gives me the same adoring look (I love you too, Izzy!). My wife's gaze, a bit more challenging at times...
Posted by Vancouverite on October 2, 2012 at 8:38 AM · Report this
4
"but the truth is eventually they'll have to alter their religious beliefs"

You mean that eventually they'll choose to alter their religious beliefs in the same way that they choose to include minorities and women (sort of).
Posted by bassplayerguy on October 2, 2012 at 8:39 AM · Report this
5
The problem with your wish, Dan, is that the religious leaders who think same-sex marriage is wrong really don't want to help it become legal.
Posted by clashfan on October 2, 2012 at 8:43 AM · Report this
6
I think your proposal for an ad is a great idea. The position you articulate is the position of many Catholics, including members of the clergy. Clergy, of course, cannot advocate publicly for a position contrary to the teachings of the Magisterium, but there are a lot of Catholic leaders who are not clergy who would probably be willing to appear in such an ad. The Church opposed civil divorce 50 years ago just as vehemently as it opposes civil same-sex marriage today, so clearly things can change. Support or opposition to civil marriage policy is not a matter of dogma (whereas the teachings on sacramental i.e. in-church marriage are dogma), so this is an area where faithful Catholics can speak out.

In other words, Dan, maybe you should post a call for Catholic or Orthodox lay leaders to come forward and volunteer to participate in a youtube video of some sort on this topic? I think you'd have takers.
Posted by E098765 on October 2, 2012 at 9:07 AM · Report this
7
Without question, one religious belief that must be altered, wherever it is held, is that everyone else must believe the same as them, or else [insert description of random horrror]. Not every religion believes like that, of course, but the ones that do is where fundamentalism, ultra-orthodoxy, and intolerance truly live.

In fact, one of the things that drew me to the Quakers (aka The Religious Society of Friends), was their simple, humble statement that they weren't the only way, that other religions and practices could accomplish the same thing and that all people, religious or otherwise, had "that of God" within them and should be treated in a spirit of equality.

I think, in their underlying teachings, most religions say something similar, if not as plainly, and it's only a minority of faiths that treat outsiders awfully, with disdain, condemnation, contempt, and/or threats. It's that minority that, you should pardon the expression, need to find religion.
Posted by Brooklyn Reader on October 2, 2012 at 9:21 AM · Report this
reverend dr dj riz 8
@4 sure they'll 'choose' to. but before that choice they'll feel forced. it's what they fear.
a lot of us have already experienced the fallout from that conflict when we came out to our families and friends. however you parse it rationally, emotionally they feel backed into a corner where they're forced to accept something don't understand or agree with. later they accept us and then accept their acceptance and if we're lucky ( at least in the case of our families and friends ) they'll love us..
or not.
Posted by reverend dr dj riz on October 2, 2012 at 9:21 AM · Report this
9
@5: You're wrong. I've met 'em, I've talked with 'em. They're out there.
Posted by Dan Savage on October 2, 2012 at 9:24 AM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 10
I may be mistaken, but aren't there still countries where the Catholic Church still makes women's lives a living hell? And I have no such doubts about there being countries that the church runs absolutely where reporting a priest for fucking your kid is unthinkable for fear of retaliation.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on October 2, 2012 at 9:59 AM · Report this
11
At least this add brings up the fact that there is more than one way to be Christian. For way too long, nobody ever heard about the tolerant denominations and congregations. We had an inclusive UCC add on TV that some stations refused to air. Not because of sex, nudity, profanity or violence. It was because we dared to say that everyone was welcome and accepted, including LGBT people who were turned away from other churches. I will rejoice when the bigots pushing exclusion are the ones who have to be careful of who they are around before they spew their vitriol. That will be a beautiful day.
Posted by SeattleKim on October 2, 2012 at 10:18 AM · Report this
12
A pastor friend of mine intentionally separated the religious and legal parts of his recent marriage. They had the church wedding to sanctify the marriage, and then they had a JP perform the legal union. It was an acknowledgement that legal marriage and religious marriage are not the same thing, and though he belongs to a denomination that will perform same-sex ceremonies where legal (and bless same sex couples where it isn't), an acknowledgement that civil marriage can and should be open to all.

He's in rural Texas, by the way. The south isn't as homogenous as some (including some of us who live here) would like to believe.
Posted by Sheryl on October 2, 2012 at 10:36 AM · Report this
Charles Mudede 13
@12, i'ts not that it doesn't work. it's just you don'
t have a facebook account. sorry about that.
Posted by Charles Mudede on October 2, 2012 at 11:08 AM · Report this
venomlash 14
@13: u wot m8
Posted by venomlash on October 2, 2012 at 1:01 PM · Report this
15
@12: That's actually the law round here. Only a marriage performed by a city clerk has legal standing of any kind, but you are free (and many pairs choose so) to have a Catholic wedding afterwards (customarily done on the same day, or shortly thereafter), or a Protestant one, or a Pagan ceremony or whatever. I was a bit surprised to learn the US handles that differently.
Posted by ElaineS on October 2, 2012 at 9:20 PM · Report this
dlauri 16
When you said, "The church also opposed votes for women," my first instinct was to believe that because it seems like the kind of thing the Catholic church would do, but then I did some googling and I found a source (Feminism and the Periodical Press, 1900-1918, Volume 2, by Lucy Delap -- http://bit.ly/QPhrjw) that says otherwise: "[t]he Church has taken no official attitude on the subject, but leaves the matter to the good judgment of her children as to what they think best."

Got a source, Dan, that backs up your claim?
Posted by dlauri http://www.davidlauri.com on October 3, 2012 at 8:05 AM · Report this
17
16

yeah, Danny; you lying asshole.

In fact, do you have any sources to back up ANY of your bullshit claims?
Posted by Bigotry makes people say stupid things on November 20, 2012 at 3:21 AM · Report this

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