Slog Comments
I'm Dan Savage and I Approved—And Stand By—This Message
1
This is why we love you, Dan. You tell it like it is. Haters gotta hate. And Perkins is a rattle snake.
2
"ZOMG, Dan Savage is vulgar by the standard of my arrested development! I'm shocked!"
And "kids" means "college students" now? When do these assholes ever let go of their creepy paternalism?
And "kids" means "college students" now? When do these assholes ever let go of their creepy paternalism?
3
The best part of this are the comments on the "News Busters" site. The irony is so thick you won't believe it.
5
"Tony Perkins sits on a pile of dead gay kids."
I hope you don't wonder why some people are not fans of your hate-ivism. Sure, we may agree about 99% of things, but the way you go about promoting your beliefs is exactly as bad as the bigoted shitbergs on Fox News, and you're often a talking head right next to them.
I hope you don't wonder why some people are not fans of your hate-ivism. Sure, we may agree about 99% of things, but the way you go about promoting your beliefs is exactly as bad as the bigoted shitbergs on Fox News, and you're often a talking head right next to them.
6
How I was hoping the headline meant you had done an actual campaign ad! Maybe even for you running for something! Still, YouTubes of your college speaking tour engagements are always a treat. Very nice. We flying monkeys clap our wings in joy.
11
@5 saying that someone who advocates behaviors which are likely to lead to suicide sits on those dead bodies is not equivalent.
Grow the fuck up.
Grow the fuck up.
12
i dont want to defend @5's comments because they are dumb, but doesn't telling him to grow the fuck up because he has a different opinion/stance verge on bullying? i agree with dan on this, but at the same time am sad that a comment string about bullying so quickly devolves into people telling each other to go fuck themselves.
13
@5 So the bigoted shitbergs on Fox News include actual facts in their rhetoric like Dan? Oh wait, no, they lie and lie and lie and don't stand for any scrutiny of their positions. So, um, slight difference there, moron.
14
Every time I hear the words "Tony Perkins" I want to take a silkwood shower, and I'm currently on an airplane. It's like a vitual layer of scum on my skin, and I'm 6 hours away from a full bathroom.
16
@12: Adults arguing -- particularly when they have no power over each other, and there's no physical threat or chance of a physical threat -- is not bullying.
The right is attempting to define bullying down to "you said something that made me mad/look bad." Don't play into that shit.
The right is attempting to define bullying down to "you said something that made me mad/look bad." Don't play into that shit.
18
@12,
What Dan said @16, but also, Swearengen always used to comment on Dan's posts with the response "Grow up."
I think the others are just showing turnabout.
What Dan said @16, but also, Swearengen always used to comment on Dan's posts with the response "Grow up."
I think the others are just showing turnabout.
22
@1: A rattlesnake will generally give you a warning rattle before striking, and generally bites only in self-defense. (Assuming you're not a rodent or small lizard or whatnot.) You're giving Perkins too much credit.
@5: Grow up.
@12: Swearengen is known for telling Dan to grow up every time Dan makes mention of the Santorum neologism.
@5: Grow up.
@12: Swearengen is known for telling Dan to grow up every time Dan makes mention of the Santorum neologism.
23
"The Catholic Church is not anti-gay hate group - too many gays are running the place." Or something...the sound really wasn't very good but that was still my favorite part :)
24
I'm looking forward to the high quality vid when you get to posting it, Dan. I missed a few words here and there.
26
The false equivalence @5 and others make is based on the misguided notion that the problem with politics is a matter of tone, not substance. They think people on the right are making cogent arguments just like the left, and if we would just stop swearing and snarking at each other, we'd all just get along.
Bullshit.
On the matter of gay rights (and a lot of other matters as well) people on the right are LYING and they are WRONG. And people die because of it. This is indeed a matter of substance, and Dan's tone is absolutely appropriate.
Also, grow up.
Bullshit.
On the matter of gay rights (and a lot of other matters as well) people on the right are LYING and they are WRONG. And people die because of it. This is indeed a matter of substance, and Dan's tone is absolutely appropriate.
Also, grow up.
28
When your actions directly cause people's deaths, you don't get to get in a snit when they claim that you hate them. The Pakistanis get to say that we hate them, even if we don't. The Iraqis get to claim that we hate them, even if we don't, and we don't get to get in a snit about it.
30
So let me get this straight. If we were to apply Dan Savage's twisted chain of causation and responsibility to other cases, then we'd be saying that radical imams that tell their followers to go out and kill people have blood on THEIR hands? Even if THEY didn't actually kill anybody?
But wait. Lets think about this. Arms traffickers who sell weapons to criminals and terrorists are supposedly responsible for the havoc wrought by their customers? Think about that for a second, people.
And I guess that applies to drug dealers too? By some convoluted mental gymnastics, they should be held accountable for when people get hooked and OD?
Correct me if I'm wrong but you and me and everyone I know was raised to believe that we are each of us alone in this harsh world. Nothing we do or say to others is capable of influencing their behavior. Each person is wholly responsible for every single act they do. Wholly. Hasn't Tony Perkens built his whole career on the simple truth that there are no accessories, there are no accomplices. No teachers, no mentors. There are only the acts of isolated individuals, just as God intended. Basic Christian morality, Look it up.
But wait. Lets think about this. Arms traffickers who sell weapons to criminals and terrorists are supposedly responsible for the havoc wrought by their customers? Think about that for a second, people.
And I guess that applies to drug dealers too? By some convoluted mental gymnastics, they should be held accountable for when people get hooked and OD?
Correct me if I'm wrong but you and me and everyone I know was raised to believe that we are each of us alone in this harsh world. Nothing we do or say to others is capable of influencing their behavior. Each person is wholly responsible for every single act they do. Wholly. Hasn't Tony Perkens built his whole career on the simple truth that there are no accessories, there are no accomplices. No teachers, no mentors. There are only the acts of isolated individuals, just as God intended. Basic Christian morality, Look it up.
33
In 1729 Jonathan Swift wrote A Modest Proposal, a satirical classic which dared to point out that there isn't nearly as much of a difference as people like to imagine between the morality of literally eating the poor for lunch and merely allowing them callously to starve to death.
People thought A Modest Proposal was offensive in its day, too.
People thought A Modest Proposal was offensive in its day, too.
34
@18 & @22 That is why I reflexively post a "grow up" every time I see a post from S...gen.
If he/she can't say anything more about Dan standing up to hatemongers, there is no reason to reply with anything useful.
If he/she can't say anything more about Dan standing up to hatemongers, there is no reason to reply with anything useful.
35
@5: I'm not going to join the well-deserved pile-on, just respond to your error in "is exactly as bad as the bigoted shitbergs on Fox News ..."
Somebody who'd accuse me of being indifferent to kids living or dying would be an immoral "shitberg". Somebody who'd accuse me of being indifferent to kids living or dying if I were opposing funding for and actively blocking repair and maintenance of school bus brakes would be simply stating a fact. Can you see that the underlying fact makes the difference?
Somebody who'd accuse me of being indifferent to kids living or dying would be an immoral "shitberg". Somebody who'd accuse me of being indifferent to kids living or dying if I were opposing funding for and actively blocking repair and maintenance of school bus brakes would be simply stating a fact. Can you see that the underlying fact makes the difference?
36
Are you saying they don't?
Are you saying they're not?
It doesn't take much mental gymnastics to put at least some of the blame on the drug dealers. They knowingly sell a dangerous, addictive product, and it's not like they're forthcoming to their customers about how dangerous those drugs are. Is it your contention that a corporation that knowingly sells a dangerous product with no warning to its customers shouldn't be held accountable?
then we'd be saying that radical imams that tell their followers to go out and kill people have blood on THEIR hands?
Are you saying they don't?
Arms traffickers who sell weapons to criminals and terrorists are supposedly responsible for the havoc wrought by their customers? Think about that for a second, people.
Are you saying they're not?
And I guess that applies to drug dealers too? By some convoluted mental gymnastics, they should be held accountable for when people get hooked and OD?
It doesn't take much mental gymnastics to put at least some of the blame on the drug dealers. They knowingly sell a dangerous, addictive product, and it's not like they're forthcoming to their customers about how dangerous those drugs are. Is it your contention that a corporation that knowingly sells a dangerous product with no warning to its customers shouldn't be held accountable?
37
@2 (unless I'm missing the subtle sarcasm and you're actually on Dan's side), Um, how many gay "kids" (18+ in college, away from home where they are not accepted) finally come out, and then get harassed by their peers so much so that they end up committing suicide does it take for us to realize that it isn't about the age of the audience, but the message? If you aren't or weren't a gay "kid" who wasn't accepted at home or at school, then you shouldn't comment, whereby you become complaisant in the status quo which continues to treat the gay person as the one with the problem. Just sayin'.
38
Using naughty swear words is NOT "just as bad" as promoting downright lethal hatred of gay children. Only someone who has really sick morals (or who at least is severely intellectually stunted) would believe that.
Dan's argument here is pretty fucking irrefutable: Gay kids whose families reject them are at a severely greater risk of suicide. Tony Perkins knows this to be true, and yet he still encourages said families to reject their gay kids. Therefore, a portion of those gay kids' blood is on Tony Perkins' hands.
Exactly how is it that "Danny said mean things and also used the f-word!" overshadows Tony's actions here? Civil debates are for issues in which the policies in question contain civility to begin with. They're not for people who are trying to strip you of your humanity and make children more likely to die. With the latter, it's perfectly appropriate to use morbid imagery, because that morbid imagery is ACCURATE.
So in short: @5: Grow the fuck up.
Dan's argument here is pretty fucking irrefutable: Gay kids whose families reject them are at a severely greater risk of suicide. Tony Perkins knows this to be true, and yet he still encourages said families to reject their gay kids. Therefore, a portion of those gay kids' blood is on Tony Perkins' hands.
Exactly how is it that "Danny said mean things and also used the f-word!" overshadows Tony's actions here? Civil debates are for issues in which the policies in question contain civility to begin with. They're not for people who are trying to strip you of your humanity and make children more likely to die. With the latter, it's perfectly appropriate to use morbid imagery, because that morbid imagery is ACCURATE.
So in short: @5: Grow the fuck up.
39
@5:
"Hate-ivism"
If you were a mature grownup, you would realize that an adult using words against the hurtful actions of another adult is not bullying, nor is it uncalled for. It has no equivalency to a bigot whose actions are actively destroying the lives of vulnerable children.
So please do grow up.
"Hate-ivism"
If you were a mature grownup, you would realize that an adult using words against the hurtful actions of another adult is not bullying, nor is it uncalled for. It has no equivalency to a bigot whose actions are actively destroying the lives of vulnerable children.
So please do grow up.
40
30: If I hire a hitman to kill my neighbor, are you saying that I'm not responsible because technically I didn't kill anyone? Should the hitman be the only one who goes to jail?
See, this game can go both ways!
The point is that, yes, multiple people along a chain of events can all be responsible for the resulting event. This isn't exactly rocket science.
See, this game can go both ways!
The point is that, yes, multiple people along a chain of events can all be responsible for the resulting event. This isn't exactly rocket science.
42
@26- Thanks for being rational instead of just telling Swearingen to grow up.
And how does someone who named themselves after a foul-mouthed murder get off tell other people they're too offensive?
And how does someone who named themselves after a foul-mouthed murder get off tell other people they're too offensive?
44
Well Dan, if you didn't know it already, you KNOW you're doing something right when you cause the RWCNJ's panties to get into a bunch.
That's pretty much a sure-fire test of righteous living, right there.
Also, "Swearengen", grow up why don't you.
That's pretty much a sure-fire test of righteous living, right there.
Also, "Swearengen", grow up why don't you.
45
Dan's cussing may not be acceptable to many Christians. But shouldn't it be even less acceptable for Christian families to reject their own children just because of their sexual orientation?
46
@5: "Hate-ivism". Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Never try to coin a phrase again. Seriously, you are remarkably bad at it.
Never try to coin a phrase again. Seriously, you are remarkably bad at it.
48
I can understand why somebody who agrees w/ Dan's message might not like his raunchy, in-your-face style. I'm not sure why such a person would waste time looking at Slog, though.
49
@45 Those Xtians should grow up.
By which I mean not just get over common fucking words, but give up belief in sky daddies, as well as Santa and the tooth fairy.
By which I mean not just get over common fucking words, but give up belief in sky daddies, as well as Santa and the tooth fairy.
50
Dan/Stranger unleashes tirade against heterosexuals = "panties in a bunch"
Heterosexuals unleash tirade on gays = gays blowing their brains out
Ummm ... advantage heterosexuals?
Heterosexuals unleash tirade on gays = gays blowing their brains out
Ummm ... advantage heterosexuals?
51
Perkins profits from murder. Rejecting your gay kid is attempted murder, and all too frequently completed murder. Perkins has blood on his hands. Anything that upsets him is all right in my book.
52
@45 Conservative Christians don't reject children on the basis of sexual orientation. They reject children on the basis of sexual activity and professed sexual identity. Their fine with celibate, closeted, gay people.
55
Anytime you piss those people off you know you've done a good job, Dan.
As a reward, google "Chris Kluwe Out Magazine images".
As a reward, google "Chris Kluwe Out Magazine images".
56
I like how they censor "dick" on that site, but not "fag".
I also particularly like how the writer of that article uses "cretin" as his insult of choice for Dan. Not knowing, of course, that "cretin" is derived from the French word for Christian.
I also particularly like how the writer of that article uses "cretin" as his insult of choice for Dan. Not knowing, of course, that "cretin" is derived from the French word for Christian.
57
Welcome to adult-hood! We sometimes use words that have certain meanings to emphasize our points or accentuate the underlying emotion in what we say! Just because someone is uncomfortable with the origin of that word, or doesn't fully understand how it has evolved from there doesn't invalidate a person's core point. I really, really love swear words and they really, really help get across the despair and agony and straight up anger that I feel when I think about gay teen suicide, people who are anti-gay for no good fucking reason, people who in general want to restrict my rights with their "greater freedoms." Getting all het up about some words that are offensive to some is COMPLETELY obfuscating the point. The point is THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO MERIT IN THEIR DEEDS OR WORDS. Their aim is evil and we are watching them do it. To ignore what Dan says because he doesn't PHRASE it perfectly for your delicate sensibilities is childish. Obviously Dan Savage is deeply moved and deeply distressed AS WELL SHOULD ANY THINKING AND FEELING HUMAN BEING BE, by the things said and the action taken by the listeners of Tony Perkins. Let's all grow the fuck up, maybe.
58
What I find vulgar about this whole thing is that there are so many people who think that Dan using dirty words and calling a specific gay-hater a faggot is more obscene than the pure hate, lies, and bigotry promoted by the Family Research Council and that people give money to such organizations.
"But if you find me more offensive than the fucking possibility the pope protected priests when they were getting fucking fiddly, then listen to me motherfucker, this here is a fact: you are just as morally misguided as that motherfucking power-hungry, self-aggrandised bigot in the stupid fucking hat."
- Tim Minchin, The Pope Song
"But if you find me more offensive than the fucking possibility the pope protected priests when they were getting fucking fiddly, then listen to me motherfucker, this here is a fact: you are just as morally misguided as that motherfucking power-hungry, self-aggrandised bigot in the stupid fucking hat."
- Tim Minchin, The Pope Song
59
Dan, you should set up a well-placed video camera and send the footage to the RWCNJ so they don't make some poor guy hold up a cell phone camera. Then we'd all enjoy better sound and Campus Reform dudes could just sit and be righteously indignant without tiring out their arms.
60
50: The thing is, the homophobic treatment of gays is more than just tirades. It's gay-bashings; it's systematic, legal discrimination; and it's children being abused, rejected, and/or physically thrown out on the streets by their very own families.
I can't come to the conclusion that these two things are equivalent because, when someone merely insults my beliefs or calls me a "fucker," I don't feel like I've been bashed, stripped of my rights, abused, and rejected by my family. The reason for this is because I'm not a whimpering pussy.
Now, homophobes like you, on the other hand...
I can't come to the conclusion that these two things are equivalent because, when someone merely insults my beliefs or calls me a "fucker," I don't feel like I've been bashed, stripped of my rights, abused, and rejected by my family. The reason for this is because I'm not a whimpering pussy.
Now, homophobes like you, on the other hand...
61
@52- what planet do you live on? RWCNJ's reject ANY form of queerness- sex (actions) doesn't have to be involved at all. In my RWCNJ church in a past life, just emotionally loving another man was grounds for excommunication, but not before you were told what an evil, sinful human being you were. So the thought police are alive and well in these organizations.
Thanks, Dan for calling these evil people what they are- guilty of causing suicides among young people. Just the knowledge that my parents "probably" would reject me if they knew was enough to send me to suicide's door as a teen. Tony Perkin's hands are covered in blood of teens, and he does sit on a pile of bodies. Suck it, Tony!
Tyler Clementi might not have offed himself it he hadn't felt his mother had rejected him due to her xtian beliefs. Parents hold incredible power over their children- be careful when a kid comes out to you.
Thanks, Dan for calling these evil people what they are- guilty of causing suicides among young people. Just the knowledge that my parents "probably" would reject me if they knew was enough to send me to suicide's door as a teen. Tony Perkin's hands are covered in blood of teens, and he does sit on a pile of bodies. Suck it, Tony!
Tyler Clementi might not have offed himself it he hadn't felt his mother had rejected him due to her xtian beliefs. Parents hold incredible power over their children- be careful when a kid comes out to you.
62
You inspire me to think, Dan. What would you have me do to Mr. Perkins? Pity him for his cruelty? Pity him for his delusions? Charter a plane with Riz to Louisiana, and with Sheryl's help, we hog tie him and tattoo "Opinions are like assholes and I have a big one!" across his forehead. Indeed he is a malicious person, whose opinions and actions have led to untold amounts of sorrow. Pointing out how unlike Christ he is or that the Bible tells of great suffering for those who cause children to sin, does not phase him. I believe he will milk every little thing to line his pockets.
Okay enough with imagining a bit of Stieg Larsson-ish justice.
Cheers.
Okay enough with imagining a bit of Stieg Larsson-ish justice.
Cheers.
63
@50: Dear god, even that idiot Swearengen is a better troll than you. Your level of constant failure is just astonishing to behold.
64
No Christian youths are going to commit suicide as a result of anything that Dan Savage says or does.
66
@63 nightmare is a special kind of troll. Kinda like traffic: benign, boring, pointless but still annoying in predictablity.
67
Being gay is hard enough for teens, I saw my daughter struggle with what people would think of her, how she could be out in a gay hating world, and I am a loving, accepting mother who gave her total space to be herself - I can not imagine what would have happened to her if her father or I had rejected her, she would not be alive today I am sure.
68
How in the hell is it liberal bias for Dan Savage to give a talk at a University, where the audience knows what to expect? In fact, I'll bet you that all the little conservative trolls go to his talks KNOWING he's going to say something objectionable and respond as appropriate. Here's what you do if you don't like Dan or his message. DON'T FUCKING WATCH IT. That's how I handle Fox News. See how that works? Easy-peasy.
71
I agree one hundred percent, Dan. By the way, it was great to hear you speak in person and great to meet you last Thursday and Friday.
74
@23, RE: Dan's quote -- aren't most anti-gay hate groups run by (closeted) gay people? There's nothing quite like hating something intrinsic about oneself to drive a person to hate (and publicly distance him/herself from) others who share the 'unacceptable' trait, right? I may be wrong, but I'm guessing Dan gave the Catholic Church a pass on this count only because promoting hateful attitudes does not seem to be its #1 priority.
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